India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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ArjunPandit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

if the troops are not there what if some evil aliens destroy their equipment
S_Madhukar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

this isn't a withdrawal, just a time-out...and who will 'maintain' the equipment left behind...
bharathp
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by bharathp »

you leave a bike unattended and you know what will happen in any place in India? not even the nuts and bolts will be left in place.. time to show some Indian TLC
Prem Kumar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Prem Kumar »

An excellent article on how well-prepared India is, for a long-haul at the LAC! Many quotable snippets

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 232836.cms
Indian Forces has stationed its field workshops at terminal points where they constructed large shelters for repair. We can even carry out overhauls of Tank Engines in these workshops
A field hospital/ Forward Surgical centre with every unit, 1-2 bigger Field Ambulances with every brigade and a dedicated 300 bed hospital at the corps headquarters with all weather connectivity to higher centres like Chandigarh, Pune and Delhi were established. The best handpicked doctors from all the three services were called and posted to Eastern Ladakh. On 28th October 2020, Indian Army Doctors successfully performed a surgery at 16,000 feet in eastern Ladakh which boasts of Indian Medical capabilities
On an average 2-3 PLA soldiers are succumbing to death with more than 10-15 being evacuated on medical grounds daily. They had moved additional eight field hospitals to eastern Ladakh in recent months and the frequent movement of their casualty evacuation helicopters is not hidden from our forces
Furthermore, the alpine clothing currently in use with the PLA is able to defend its troops up to 9000 feet whereas all the heights here are above 14000 feet. Less oxygen concentration further makes the task difficult. This has forced China to order alpine gear from some of the European countries under emergency procurement while supplies are yet to start
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by A Sharma »

Centre allocates additional funds for Army to deal with Chinese aggression

The Army has maintained that its 85 per cent of its procurement were done through Indian companies.
nam
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

But there is a catch in that claim. Most of that 85% is DPSU/OFB. No value added, no improvement, nothing major adding to the economy. Just guys have a sakari naukri, doing ToT screws.

Army ordered more Ashok leyland trucks. AL sold them to OFB Vehicle factory at 20 lakhs, who in turn sold it to army at 27 lakhs.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Philip »

For the field hospitals the IA should also equip them with Ozone Therapy eqpt.OT is a remarkable cure for CV worldwide,available in India too with the Oz Forum of India. Bisleri is assisting the OFI in Mumbai. OT was used in WW2 by the Germans for faster curing of battlefield injuries.It's a simple ozonated saline drip ,v.cheap too.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Shanmukh »

I don't want to give credence to NDTV news, but I would be glad if our knowledgeable residents of the board opined on this news report. Also, the timing is ... rather curious. Nidhi gets busted for her falsehood and suddenly, NDTV publishes a claim that China has encroached on our border in Arunachal?

Nevertheless, I am glad to hear the opinion of our more knowledgeable members.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/china-h ... ve-2354154

Apparently, this is what is being claimed.

Addition:
This is from ANI.
#Correction Tapir Gao, BJP MP from Arunachal Pradesh: McMahon line is at a distance of approximately 100 km from Chaglagam, now if China makes a bridge at a distance of 25 km from Chaglagam, that implies China is already 60-70 km into our territory.

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1169205261438865408
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Sachin »

China building infrastructure along Indian borders for several years: MEA
The MEA press release is a bit wishy washy; but I doubt that IA or IAF would have missed out this construction. We do have some good satellite and drone based monitoring capabilities, and so if this area is part of constant observation (or patrols are sent out) this 'village' would have been spotted earlier. But NDTV being NDTV and when they say they have 'exclusive' access to satellite imagery; it could be very well a case of some 'foreign country intelligence agencies' feeding them with wrong/half truth information. Chinese intelligence themselves could have supplied these images to NDTV who would be only too happy to help them if they can score few brownie points over current GoI.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

Chinis are trying to create facts on ground, by placing civilians structure and people, to claim later that this place was always Chinese.

Chinis think they are smart, except that all this drama will just make it very difficult for GoI to agree to any compromise, to reduce the conflict. :rotfl:

For all the claims about Chinis long term vision, they don't seem to understand that their biggest ally in India is GoI, which will try to brush any issues under the carpet to "improve relation" and "peace".

Hope our media makes more noise about it. We need the standoff to continue for more years.

Chinis can keep building "villages", we will get allied to the right countries to bring manufacturing from China to India..block Chinese exports, double down on local defence R&D..
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by pravula »

Philip wrote:For the field hospitals the IA should also equip them with Ozone Therapy eqpt.OT is a remarkable cure for CV worldwide,available in India too with the Oz Forum of India. Bisleri is assisting the OFI in Mumbai. OT was used in WW2 by the Germans for faster curing of battlefield injuries.It's a simple ozonated saline drip ,v.cheap too.
As far as I know, ozone is a potent carcinogen. Free radial and everything...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Ankit Desai »

China builds village on ‘Arunachal Pradesh territory’ it occupied in 1959
China has managed to build a village on land occupied by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) by overrunning an Assam Rifles post in 1959 on the disputed frontier in Arunachal Pradesh and not on territory controlled by India, sources in the defence and security establishment said.
They said the village on the disputed border in Upper Subansiri district was on territory under Chinese control. Beijing has, for years, maintained an Army post on this territory and the various constructions by the Chinese haven’t happened suddenly, the sources added.
"Even after the 1962 war, they did not withdraw from the area, and it continued to be under Chinese control, just like Aksai Chin, where they have built airfields and other military establishments,” a source said
-Ankit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Sachin »

New Village Built By China In Arunachal Located In Area Under Its Control Since 1959
Looks like NDTV had to eat back it vomitted. The 'village' was built in an area which was occupied by the Chinese way back in 1959. And now GoI if it wants; can also show case this event as one of the perfidies of Bandit-ji, and his cronies.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 72928?s=20 ---> China's PLA has replaced pics of Japanese tanks with pics of Indian Army T-72CIA MBTs in it's firing ranges.

Image
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by RajaRudra »

https://www.dawn.com/news/1602541/biden ... h-pakistan

When asked what changes he would recommend to US relations with Pakistan as the new defence chief, Gen Austin said: “I will focus on our shared interests which include training future Pakistan military leaders through the use of International Military Education and Training funds. Pakistan will play an important role in any political settlement in Afghanistan. We also need to work with Pakistan to defeat al Qaeda and the Islamic State Khorasan Province (ISIS-K) and to enhance regional stability.”

----------------------------------

Pakistan is going to do some adventure(terror attack) and test the reaction of India with new administration settling in US. May be, this time we should not wait for the adventure and do the revenge attack for some usual cross border firing with massive force now itself in winter. This summer is going to be a test match with China. May be now is the time to test the pakis and US in our terms.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

RajaRudra wrote:When asked what changes he would recommend to US relations with Pakistan as the new defence chief, Gen Austin said: “I will focus on our shared interests which include training future Pakistan military leaders through the use of International Military Education and Training funds. ..
So basically bribes.. including life time service bonus aka pathways to set up post-retirement bijness in Khan land
V_Raman
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by V_Raman »

@RajRudra sir - those days of testing reaction etc. are long gone. Pakistan have no opening as of now or in the next few years. It is purely a India vs China game now. We should stop unduly worrying about our western neighbor...
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

Let US do what they want with the western chaps. Our focus should be on China. Pak army is now just an additional "army" of PLA.

The Paks can scream, shout, get bribes whatever they want. We get prepared for the PLA, while constantly remind the world that Pak harbors terrorist. They will do some nonsense to prove us right. Any terror attack, we whack right away. Then the US admin can come some "peace" talk. US can prevent us from taking action, cannot do nothing once the action is done.

Focusing on the Chinis, allows us to make US ignore the irritant on western border.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

Pak army is increasingly the 'operational' arm of the PLA, as China in it's imitation of the erstwhile cold-war Superpowers, will use it to do the actual work by trying to keep us tied down on the western flank.

The US admin traditionally (except maybe during the Trump period) has done more than just 'peace' talk - continual aid life-lines attest to that being a historical fact. Long experienced in the super power game and having institutional clarity of focus on long term threats, the US used Pak to keep a then Soviet-backed India bogged down. Once the soviet threat diminished it deftly changed track and keeps attempting to use India against the Chinese.

One manifestation of this long term institutional strategy is the investment into Junior to Middle level officers of the Pak military. The thinking probably being that in a couple of decades when they have suppressed the China threat and it is time to focus on stopping the rise of India, these very 'cultivated' officers who will be holding senior positions in the Pak military establishment, and will be pliable to do as instructed (bribes, blackmail, post-retirement benefits in Khan land, whatever...).

Biden administration to revive military-to-military ties with Pakistan
When asked what changes he would recommend to US relations with Pakistan as the new defence chief, Gen Austin said: “I will focus on our shared interests which include training future Pakistan military leaders through the use of International Military Education and Training funds.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by krishna_krishna »

Lt. Gen D S hooda sharing rare pics of recon team and snaps of balakot terror camps do watch from 22:00 onwards . Now we know how we were sure of no . of tangos at those camps
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FYMUmB_ywyQ
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by manjgu »

krishna_krishna wrote:Lt. Gen D S hooda sharing rare pics of recon team and snaps of balakot terror camps do watch from 22:00 onwards . Now we know how we were sure of no . of tangos at those camps
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FYMUmB_ywyQ
for me the awesome thing was pic of bana post !!!! what a view !!!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by RajaRudra »

V_Raman wrote:@RajRudra sir - those days of testing reaction etc. are long gone. Pakistan have no opening as of now or in the next few years. It is purely a India vs China game now. We should stop unduly worrying about our western neighbor...
I fully agree.
There must be several landmines left behind by Trump Admin as a present to Biden Admin. It will take a while for Biden to settle.

There should be some testing of Biden , on the probable reactions when we have to carry out some action to stop any upcoming terror event. May be, this could be that time for testing. With china boxed in due to winter as of now.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

Folks keep an eye on the thread and track all news of PLA here.
Thanks.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SSridhar »

India again asks China for 'complete disengagement, de-escalation' in Ladakh - Rajat Pandit, ToI
India on Sunday once again asked China for “complete disengagement and de-escalation” at all the face-off sites in eastern Ladakh, amid a deepening trust deficit due to the continuing consolidation of military positions by the Chinese Army all along the frontier.

Sources said India pushed for finalisation of a “workable and sequential” roadmap for disengagement, de-escalation and de-induction, with a joint verification mechanism, while restoring status quo ante at the ‘friction points’ in Pangong Tso, Chushul and Gogra-Hotsprings areas as the first step.

There was, however, no official word on the outcome of the ninth round of military talks, led by 14 Corps commander Lt-General P G K Menon and South Xinjiang Military District chief Major General Liu Lin, which lasted for over 10 hours on the Chinese side of the Chushul-Moldo border meeting point on Sunday.

“With hardened positions on both sides, any tangible breakthrough seems unlikely at this stage. The two delegations will now go to their respective political hierarchies for further directions on the proposals and counter-proposals exchanged during the talks,” a source said.

The Indian defence establishment is wary that China has no real intentions of a pullback of troops, tanks and howitzers from the frontlines, given the way it has consolidated its military positions and upgraded its infrastructure all along the 3,488-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) after the Ladakh confrontation erupted in early May.

The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has assiduously built new roads and lateral links, surface-to-air missile positions and helipads in different sectors stretching from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh, while also establishing civilian settlements in “disputed but occupied areas” in the eastern sector, as reported by TOI earlier.

“But talks are important to maintain the calm at the frontlines,” the source said. China has been demanding that the proposed disengagement should begin from the south bank of Pangong Tso-Chushul area, where Indian troops occupied tactically advantageous positions on the ridgeline stretching from Thakung to Gurung Hill, Spanggur Gap, Magar Hill, Mukhpari, Rezang La and Reqin La (Rechin mountain pass) on August 28-30 last year.

But with these Kailash ranges in Chushul sector providing India with some leverage in the negotiations, India has been pressing for a “simultaneous whole of eastern Ladakh” approach for the mutual disengagement.

This will include the PLA vacating the 8-km stretch it has occupied from ‘Finger 4 to 8’ (mountainous spurs) on the north bank of Pangong Tso since early May. With its long-standing Dhan Singh Thapa post between Finger 2 and Finger 3, Indian Army has rejected the PLA’s proposal to convert the entire ‘Finger area’ into a no-patrol zone. As per India, the LAC runs north to south at Finger 8, even though the current face-off is on the Finger 4 spur.

“The resources with the PLA are simply staggering. With roads leading right till the LAC, the PLA can swiftly move more forces and firepower to the forward areas in the summer. India will now willy-nilly have to treat the LAC (just like) the Line of Control with Pakistan, with permanent deployments and posts,” an officer said.

As reported earlier by TOI, the new as well as reinforced PLA military positions are spread from opposite the Daulat Beg Oldie-Depsang, Chushul and Demchok areas in eastern Ladakh, Kaurik Pass in Himachal Pradesh and Barahoti Plains in Uttarakhand to north Doklam near the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet trijunction and the Asaphila and ‘Fish Tail’ areas in Arunachal Pradesh.

Moreover, additional facilities have been constructed at Chinese airbases facing India like Hotan, Kashgar, Gargunsa (Ngari Gunsa), Lhasa-Gonggar and Shigatse, which include underground hangers and parking bays for fighters by digging tunnels into mountains in some areas.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pashupatastra »

Last edited by Pashupatastra on 25 Jan 2021 11:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by AshishA »

India china clash at Naku La. Sikkim border. Injuries on both sides.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/in ... d=msedgdhp

Report of 20 Chinese and 4 Indian soldiers being injured.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by suryag »

Saale sudhartey nahi hai yeh log, what credibility does any negotiation/meeting have in such cases.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Iyersan »

I thought we were weapons free along the LAC
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by RajaRudra »

A war is getting forced on us. There are some points to note

1) Govt trying its best to solve the mandi issue(by pausing the implementation for 18 months - May be to concentrate on border issue)
2) There is no rumor/inside information in OSINT and other handles - May be the leaking sources are found and got plugged.

China is trying to grab land many many times. Sometimes there are push backs. Unless there are some punitive grabs this will be repeating again and again.
Last edited by RajaRudra on 25 Jan 2021 13:48, edited 1 time in total.
AshishA
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by AshishA »

Or is this a reaction to the new Biden administration in USA?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SSridhar »

AshishA wrote:Or is this a reaction to the new Biden administration in USA?
The Chinese reaction to Biden wouldn't be at Indian borders. It would be at Taiwan and it happened at Taiwan. The PLAAF intruded across the Straits. The US Navy also reacted. The Biden administration also made clear its commitment to Taiwan.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by YashG »

Manish_P wrote:Pak army is increasingly the 'operational' arm of the PLA, as China in it's imitation of the erstwhile cold-war Superpowers, will use it to do the actual work by trying to keep us tied down on the western flank.

The US admin traditionally (except maybe during the Trump period) has done more than just 'peace' talk - continual aid life-lines attest to that being a historical fact. Long experienced in the super power game and having institutional clarity of focus on long term threats, the US used Pak to keep a then Soviet-backed India bogged down. Once the soviet threat diminished it deftly changed track and keeps attempting to use India against the Chinese.

One manifestation of this long term institutional strategy is the investment into Junior to Middle level officers of the Pak military. The thinking probably being that in a couple of decades when they have suppressed the China threat and it is time to focus on stopping the rise of India, these very 'cultivated' officers who will be holding senior positions in the Pak military establishment, and will be pliable to do as instructed (bribes, blackmail, post-retirement benefits in Khan land, whatever...).
Supressing China is a 20 year game. In that time period all middle ranking officers in Pakistan army will be out. Even planners planning this in Pentagon will be out by then.

It sounds nice but it's a long shot. US can't have practically have such a long shot plan.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by YashG »

AshishA wrote:Or is this a reaction to the new Biden administration in USA?
It definitely will be a test point for Biden. Biden cabinet has competent people in his cabinet. Biden himself won't have to bother on this, I expect Biden admin work behind the curtains to be more useful. But any over the line reaction from Biden admin will be useful but not mandatory. A lack of reaction also countess for nothing.

Indeed if anything, kefuffles on border that don't show Chinese dominance are inmical to Chinese narrative. Even a draw is bad for Chinese narrative.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

YashG wrote: Supressing China is a 20 year game. In that time period all middle ranking officers in Pakistan army will be out. Even planners planning this in Pentagon will be out by then.
You do realise that it's not just a 1 year plan right..
YashG wrote: It sounds nice but it's a long shot. US can't have practically have such a long shot plan.
Superpowers are superpowers precisely because of very long term strategical planning and the institutional (not dependent on the whims of leaders) memory and follow-through. A simple analogy would be the decades of dominance in cricket by Australia (which was studied & worked on by us)
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nam »

The Indian defence establishment is wary that China has no real intentions of a pullback of troops, tanks and howitzers from the frontlines, given the way it has consolidated its military positions and upgraded its infrastructure all along the 3,488-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) after the Ladakh confrontation erupted in early May.
Good. Otherwise our side will be looking at the first hint to disengage and rollback trade sanctions. If this thing stays like for the next 3-4 years, I will personally break coconuts in a temple and praise the Chini ego for making us a future superpower.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Khalsa »

I guess the need must be really high to play ball and relieve the pressure on Pakistan.
They are really teaching us how to live without them.

I am actually quite happy for Chinese attitude and treatment being given to us.
It will make us stronger.

Most of us don't remember or understand 62 because we have buried a very horrifying and tragic episode of our lives.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Philip »

Report of a new clash on the Sikkim border, supposedlylast Wednesday. Foreign media say at least one fatality,no such news thusfar from desi reports. Sticks and stones as usual from the Chinks.
As I predicted,the Chinks will keep the border hot with incidents during the winter. Another serious clash is not "if" but "when" and " where."
We will be tested at various points , with their main objective disguised by duplicity.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

Khalsa wrote:Most of us don't remember or understand 62 because we have buried a very horrifying and tragic episode of our lives.
anything in particular..was born way after that..heard sad stories from parents..about nehru dying as a man stripped of his aura and ego
other than that for me it was mostly nehru ji crying listening to lata ji after saying "evict the chinese" and in between seeing Kaul superseding and PN Thapar going on leave..ending with Sam, and company taking over towards the end and ending with us for Rezang la's recognition."
some restoration in 65 and 71.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

i used to think chinese were better strategic and long time thinkers. However, with this crisis they have proven me wrong in always. I doubt that with the current levels of deployment and determination of this govt they would be able to achieve anything on ground. What they have managed to accomplish out of this crisis is make entire indian establishment come out of the la la land of asian century with india and china.
For all its strengths, it's navy will not be able to do much for next 20-30 years with US N firmy at the top and Indian navy with a huge advantage of geography and allied bases closer to home. And the deficiencies on land were already on way to resolution will see faster resolution.
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