India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 02 Nov 2021 16:49

^^ this is just a re-run of the GOI planned op from June 2020. The operational plans in that sector is in line with international law which press didn’t mention

I predict they will have to conduct something similar in eastern sector wrt chickens neck area.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 03 Nov 2021 00:23

^^ Do we have a stretch of flat ground in Eastern sector to practice airborne insertion with mechanised and artillery elements? I thought it was mainly in Chumbi valley, and out of bounds unless we do the real thing.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 03 Nov 2021 00:50

I think they’ll have to do it further east in Arunachal to practice. Tbh practice is practice and the real drop zone and situation will always be slightly different.

I think it was practiced in 2007 if my memory is correct.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 03 Nov 2021 06:31

^^^ unbelievable pictures and exercises. Speaks to a high level of toughness. The air drop is only the beginning. They have to land on rugged ground, steep ridges; re-group, collect their equipment and be ready for battle and hold ground for 2 days. At high altitude, in winter.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 03 Nov 2021 09:22

What is it about the word autonomous that the Indian media refuses to understand?

asinh · Post by **asinh** » 03 Nov 2021 13:02

https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/145 ... 76643?s=20

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 03 Nov 2021 13:54

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/03/india-c ... a-rao.html

check the video on this page. One of the most balanced videos on the conflict I have see. Also notice when the anchor says both sides lost men in galwan. Not what CCP would want the world to hear. India is the only country in last many decades to whom China has lost men in a fight.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 03 Nov 2021 13:55

asinh wrote:https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/145 ... 76643?s=20

thats our desi psyops handle.

Balar · Post by **Balar** » 03 Nov 2021 15:14

Some interesting details in below video. Most of the stuff regarding infrastructure has been already discussed.

India Sentinels

In this #mustwatch @Libertarian196’s Sandy Wars show, Maj Gen @sudhakar_jee and Brig @ParaRjs discuss eastern #Ladakh, what really happened in May-June 2020. Gen Sudhakar, who commanded Army’s 3 Div in the area, reveals some startling facts.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 03 Nov 2021 17:09

Ladakh 2020: Officers who served there spell reality of Chinese intrusion

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 03 Nov 2021 18:33

Indian Army Para (Airborne) troopers in E. Ladakh

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 03 Nov 2021 23:17

Ashokk wrote:....

The camo is truly Martian with 3 dissimilar colour schemes. Wonder what else are the Paras doing in Ladakh ... and in Tibet.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Nov 2021 23:25

India-China Border Row: Beijing Won’t Budge, Even at the Cost of War

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 05 Nov 2021 00:37

Maria wrote:
Ashokk wrote:....
The camo is truly Martian with 3 dissimilar colour schemes. Wonder what else are the Paras doing in Ladakh ... and in Tibet.

Except for the helmet, the camo otherwise blends with the shrubbery.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 06 Nov 2021 08:58

Ashokk wrote:Ladakh 2020: Officers who served there spell reality of Chinese intrusion

The map at 9:20 is excellent, and comparing it against google maps shows how much further our perception of the LAC is from even the Google Maps version. Which is also scary, because if the PLA is blocking us at the Y junction, it means they've ingressed well within our claim lines.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Nov 2021 09:16

NRao wrote:India-China Border Row: Beijing Won’t Budge, Even at the Cost of War

I don't know how to tell. The Indian position is to return to April 2020 postions.
don't give a damn about what these so-called experts say.

Please don't post such crap.
It demoralizes the people in India.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 06 Nov 2021 10:21

ramana wrote:
NRao wrote:India-China Border Row: Beijing Won’t Budge, Even at the Cost of War

I don't know how to tell. The Indian position is to return to April 2020 postions.
don't give a damn about what these so-called experts say.

Please don't post such crap.
It demoralizes the people in India.

What are your specific issues with that opinion piece, Ramana-saar? It seemed fairly in line with all other observations and reports we're hearing from the LAC.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Nov 2021 02:22

MOD considering building villages on the PRC border to resettle local population. Similar plan was followed in 60s by GOI, where they settled ex servicemen. Lot of these villages lie in ruin

AshishA · Post by **AshishA** » 07 Nov 2021 12:08

Chinese have released more propaganda pictures today of supposedly galwan clash.

williams · Post by **williams** » 07 Nov 2021 12:32

NRao wrote:India-China Border Row: Beijing Won’t Budge, Even at the Cost of War

What sort of editorial is this? Looks like a simple cut and paste of what is already reported in the news media -- post talks. Chins are known to go back and forth with their commitments and for them, agreements are like toilet paper. The truth is no one knows what is in GoI's mind and Chinese media mouthpieces have zero credibility. But surely GoI knows the nature of the enemy now and the country has the capacity to respond to it.

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 07 Nov 2021 13:10

Ashokk wrote:Ladakh 2020: Officers who served there spell reality of Chinese intrusion

That's quite a good perspective from point-of-view of two veterans - Maj Gen Sudhakar and Brig Dhillon, both had served in the area and give a good insight into how things were back in 2016-17 and even before.

However, I am not so sure whether the correct conclusions have been drawn by the interviewer to merit the title "...reality of Chinese intrusion" or even whether your statement "...and comparing it against google maps shows how much further our perception of the LAC ... Which is also scary, because if the PLA is blocking us at the Y junction, it means they've ingressed well within our claim lines", is the appropriate conclusion to draw from the interview.

Firstly, both veterans have described in good accurate detail the non-existent state of infrastructure and poor force levels during their tenures. Although the interviewees ramble about a bit, some good noteworthy points that emerge are:

• Maj Gen Sudhakar very correctly gives the credit to the present political dispensation to have the will to develop road connectivity to Sub Sector North (SSN). Other political dispensations were loath to even think of developing infrastructure in the China –Tibet border areas for reasons well known and already documented in our forum.

• The earlier political dispensations were so chary, they even refused to let IAF choppers or fighters fly close to Shyok in SSN near Galwan! I remember that we then had to use Saser La to route to SSN, to avoid ‘provoking’ the Chinese.

• The Chinese reacted to the speed at which we had developed the infrastructure in that sector. Their attempts were aimed to try and suppress or even harass us to get our political dispensation to cancel the road building there.

• The political dimension was given with Art 370 being nullified and Ladakh converted to a UT. Again the Chinese correctly assessed that we were determined to get a final resolution.

• So in a sense, we had caught them off-guard and they correctly assessed that once the road connectivity had been completed, their advantage by way of geography to rapidly deploy forces including armour in SSN would be negated. Which is exactly what has happened.

• The importance of Galwan Valley is correctly brought out. The Galwan axis gives them a fairly good logistics line to bring in force levels to segment off and isolate SSN from the rest of Ladakh. Hence their choice for incursion.

• We need to look at the broader picture. Earlier, with the very meagre force deployments there, no aerial or recce assets, foot patrols lasting even weeks were the standard procedure. They would go up to designated Patrol Points (PPs) as detailed in the interview.

• Once the road connectivity was completed, we jacked up our force levels and deployed various assets. Also with improved tech, including aerial recce assets, foot patrols are no longer essential to each far-flung PP to check for enemy deployments or movements.

• It takes some cojones to give the political clearance to go ahead with deployment of our heavy armour in SSN. This had happened a year ago and we now have Main Battle Tanks deployed in SSN in very substantial numbers.

• When two opposing powerful armies are almost face-to-face with high force levels, it’s prudent to have buffer zones so as to reduce chances of a conflict.

• Indian Army Generals focus on objectives even though phrases such as “defend every inch of land…” is touted for the common public. Given the nebulous veracity of the MacCartney-MacDonald Line (and a whole heap of other Chinese and even our historic political claim lines with poor levels of tech and Zilch levels of accuracy / survey of maps back then), our present resource levels, etc, we have obviously fixed our objectives and tactics in -SN.

• We will obviously defend SSN. Any Han Chinese who thinks otherwise needs to have a reality check. However the fact is that the force levels on both sides require buffer zones and non-conflicting means of recce. Do we need to defend every hillock, nulla, valley and patrol point and spread our resources impossibly thin (as in 1962) or do we use our forces in SSN in a tactically sound and professional manner to deter and repel the Chinese, is the question.

• As for the Chinese, their earlier tactics of salami slicing in an era of meagre force deployments by us in SSN appears to be over and being a shrewd bunch they no doubt will be considering the cost benefit analysis of such tactics in the future in that sector.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 07 Nov 2021 13:48

Amazing that since Independence, our posture was compromised on the China border only because we couldn't build something as simple as roads. China benefitted immensely by creeping forward and capturing land where ever they could as no Indians could be seen anywhere. We really have a habit of tying our hands ourselves and then put up a show of weakness.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 07 Nov 2021 17:58

Pakistan Navy opens fire and kills one fisherman near Gujarat coast

Pakistan marine commandos reportedly opened fire on Indian fishermen near the coast of Gujarat. One Indian fisherman was killed while another was injured in the incident. According to sources, the Pakistani officers opened fire on a boat named 'Jalpari' near Okha town in Gujarat's Dwarka. Six fishermen are reported as kidnapped off of this boat which was later seized by the Pakistani marine.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 07 Nov 2021 18:49

KiranM wrote:^^ Do we have a stretch of flat ground in Eastern sector to practice airborne insertion with mechanised and artillery elements? I thought it was mainly in Chumbi valley, and out of bounds unless we do the real thing.

There is no area in the east where a large mechanised force can operate. However, there are plenty of areas where a small force can be dropped to reinforce our infantry formations - with artillery, APCs, anti aircraft systems etc. Many of the units in forward locations are dependent on a single vulnerable road for supply (the PLA is too). If air supply becomes a viable option, it will not just be a deterrent (against the 1962 strategy of isolating and destroying individual units) but the PLA will have to consider the possibility that we can land behind their lines (the plateau of Tibet is as flat as a pancake) and cut off their supply road.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 07 Nov 2021 19:46

New photos of Indian soldiers being humiliated in Galwan are out. Men holding their ears

https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1 ... 65792?s=21

Till date no image has been released by our side. This means we have nothing with similar value to release.

Did any senior officer have to pay for this ? None that one has heard of.

sidp · Post by **sidp** » 07 Nov 2021 21:27

May be we are too professional to imagine a PR war. Didn't we read that we had their special force commander in custody and let him go in good gesture even before our guys are released?

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 07 Nov 2021 21:30

Ashokk wrote:Pakistan Navy opens fire and kills one fisherman near Gujarat coast
Pakistan marine commandos reportedly opened fire on Indian fishermen near the coast of Gujarat. One Indian fisherman was killed while another was injured in the incident. According to sources, the Pakistani officers opened fire on a boat named 'Jalpari' near Okha town in Gujarat's Dwarka. Six fishermen are reported as kidnapped off of this boat which was later seized by the Pakistani marine.

It is quite possible that TSP is creating a sequence of events leading up to 2fw. Another tactically brilliant idea no doubt.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Nov 2021 21:55

Hari Nair sirji, superb post. The kind of big picture view but with all the details included, that elevates BRF discussions. Thank you!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Nov 2021 22:41

AdityaM wrote:New photos of Indian soldiers being humiliated in Galwan are out. Men holding their ears

https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1 ... 65792?s=21

Till date no image has been released by our side. This means we have nothing with similar value to release.

Did any senior officer have to pay for this ? None that one has heard of.

Do those soldiers look like Indian to you?
And why should any officer pay for Chinese propaganda?

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 07 Nov 2021 22:45

And isn’t Twitter banned in China? How’s this CCP troll even posting and then some idiots responding to her.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 07 Nov 2021 22:56

HNairJi are you implying they this is all planned to force a border settlement with China?

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 07 Nov 2021 23:18

It was known that in Galwan Indian soldiers were outnumbered and some were captured. So if some images come out, why is it surprising. Does not change the big picture

If the Chinese objectives were to capture land till their claim lines, stop Indian infrastructure development and slow down India US relations, we can see that none of the objectives have been met so far. Instead India has stopped them in their tracks, accelerated infrastructure development and deepened ties with US.

nam · Post by **nam** » 08 Nov 2021 02:09

The chinis thought we will stop the roads, just like it has happened previously. They were used our habit of ignoring their activities. We assumed the chinis will go back after making some noise and a deal.
PLA deployed in multiple location to prevent any Indian counter intrusion.

This is why until galwan happened our security setup was very confident of a resolution. Refer the comments from our leadership during May 2020.

The delusion was broken in galwan. Both side didn't want galwan like incident to happen, because after that it was impossible for both side to back off. Chinis don't want a robust Indian response, while our side as usual don't want any escalation, least ghandhiji gets offended

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 08 Nov 2021 02:47

ramana wrote:
AdityaM wrote:New photos of Indian soldiers being humiliated in Galwan are out. Men holding their ears

https://twitter.com/evazhengll/status/1 ... 65792?s=21

Till date no image has been released by our side. This means we have nothing with similar value to release.

Did any senior officer have to pay for this ? None that one has heard of.
Do those soldiers look like Indian to you?
And why should any officer pay for Chinese propaganda?

They look very much Indian. Why should there be a doubt?
Long haired man would be a Sikh.
In disbelief we won't accept they are our soldiers?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 08 Nov 2021 02:50

vimal wrote:And isn’t Twitter banned in China? How’s this CCP troll even posting and then some idiots responding to her.

She is the most effective Chinese psyops operator on Twitter. Clearly she has the state machinery behind her.
Won't be surprised if she is the original Phook Sundari

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Nov 2021 03:11

AdityaM wrote:
ramana wrote:
Do those soldiers look like Indian to you?
And why should any officer pay for Chinese propaganda?
They look very much Indian. Why should there be a doubt?
Long haired man would be a Sikh.
In disbelief we won't accept they are our soldiers?

I generally don't ban those whom I am discussing with. In this case, am banning you for a week for promoting enemy propaganda.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Nov 2021 03:15

Folks this is Bharat Rakshak Forum.
It means Bharat not Cheen or Paki or US or Martian.
So anyone disrespecting our troops no matter how long they have been on the forum will be warned or banned as appropriate.
Thanks for understanding.
ramana

Others posting bokwas posts are on notice.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Nov 2021 05:17

https://twitter.com/_dinakar_/status/14 ... wqNFA&s=19

Note it was from a Chinese drill being taken as gospel

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Nov 2021 05:54

So wait a second...these supposed Indian soldiers are actually Pakistani soldiers who are being made to beg for a propaganda photo shoot?

They actually made Pakistani soldiers beg for a photo? And the Pakistanis actually obliged?

Is there anything else that NaPakis will not do for their Chinese overlords?

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 08 Nov 2021 09:34

Rakesh wrote:So wait a second...these supposed Indian soldiers are actually Pakistani soldiers who are being made to beg for a propaganda photo shoot?

They actually made Pakistani soldiers beg for a photo? And the Pakistanis actually obliged?

Is there anything else that NaPakis will not do for their Chinese overlords?

Morphed and fake images https://www.opindia.com/2021/11/chinese ... an-valley/

here is the actual image

https://img.etimg.com/thumb/msid-811350 ... se-pla.jpg