India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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S_Madhukar
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by S_Madhukar »

Khalsa wrote:Wastage of time, we should be building up infrastructure and relocating assets to Leh permanently.
The Dragon only fears the slapping claw of the Tiger.
I imagine all the extra tanks etc moved will be permanently housed in that area now? Hope our top brass doesn’t get ideas of pivot here and pivot there. I know T-72s were always there but hope T-90s are also permanently stationed there. In any case NE is too far to send there.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Dilbu »

China plans another highway in Aksai Chin
China is planning to build another highway through Aksai Chin, running along the India border and connecting Xinjiang with Tibet, according to a newly released highway construction plan.

The G695 national expressway will be only the second national highway through the disputed Aksai Chin region, where China controls 38,000 sq km of land claimed by India, since the controversial construction of the G219 highway in the 1950s, and is expected to be completed by 2035.
The new highway, the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post reported on Wednesday, will run even closer to the Line of Actual Control (LAC) than G219 and is likely to broadly run along the course of G219 from Mazha in Xinjiang in the north, through Aksai Chin, which is currently administered under the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, heading south along the borders with India, Nepal and Bhutan, and down to Lhunze in southeastern Tibet right across the border from Arunachal Pradesh.

While a map of the proposed highway has not been released, the route described by the report will mean the highway will likely cut across Aksai Chin. Its course will bring it close to several disputed areas that have seen recent tensions, the Post reported, from Eastern Ladakh down to near Doklam close to the India-China-Bhutan trijunction. “Details of the new construction remain unclear, but the highway, when completed, may also go near hotly contested areas such as the Depsang Plains, Galwan Valley and Hot Springs on the LAC,” the report said.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

So far we have confined our thread to only ground forces.
Here is a link to Flight Global 2022 that has the summary of aircraft with PLAAF (page 15 and 16) and IAF (page 20).
It doesn't have the latest info due to the nature of print media.

However, is good enough to get an understanding.
Please e try to compare the combat forces by type and qty and come to some summary.

Thanks, ramana

https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=83735
Again stick to pages 15,16, 20, and 26(Pakistan)
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by MeshaVishwas »


Not sure if this is the right thread for this.
The first panel speaker said an interesting thing, the PLA overhauled her logistics structure in 2017 and the first "trial by fire" as it were, was in 2020 when PLA moved in to help contain the Chinese Virus in Wuhan.
I suspect that the dimwits at CCP higher levels were quick to draw the wrong lessons and decide to do what they did in Aksai Hind.

Op Snow Leopard has been a googly for CCP.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ldev »

Even after the latest round of military talks PLAAF jets have flown close to the LAC on multiple occasions prompting the IAF to scramble jets in response. PLAAF flights (including an excursion across the perceived LAC over Indian troop positions) started on June 24-25 and have continued since including after the Corp Commander talks on July 17

Chinese fighter jets continue attempts to provoke India on LAC in Eastern Ladakh
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by sanjayc »

^^ Can't we start doing the same? Why are we always scrambling in response?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SSridhar »

MeshaVishwas wrote: . . . Aksai Hind.
BTW, Aksai Chin is a Turkic word from Uyghur land (not Mandarin) which means 'deep white gorge'. Both Leh & Kashgar were important trading posts for Central Asian traders and goods were exchanged through Ladakh. The Chinese never set foot on these lands until the 1950s. So, we can refer to this as Aksai Chin without being guilty about that. We can also refer to this as Gosthana if we do not want the 'Chin' part. The Chinese did not even have a name for their land until the 19th century.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ArjunPandit »

sanjayc wrote:^^ Can't we start doing the same? Why are we always scrambling in response?
folks have short memory here, we had flown rafale, apache, mig29 and su30 not very long ago..
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shaun »

Just for record

Image
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ks_sachin »

ArjunPandit wrote:
sanjayc wrote:^^ Can't we start doing the same? Why are we always scrambling in response?
folks have short memory here, we had flown rafale, apache, mig29 and su30 not very long ago..
Our timid nature means we would have very strict ROEs and would not go within Xlm of the border.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by bala »

India cannot have these long simmering disputes on its borders forever. Something has to be done. I was watching some defence types + SuSwa openly wanting a confrontation with the PLA and think India can win. Rus of course is tied with Ukr tussle. Already China took a licking at Galwan, Sumdorong Chu, Nath U la and Cho La post 1965. With China in BRICS, the association makes no sense if one member attacks another, what is the point.

Atal was hand tied during kargil by the MeriCans. But India should have taken over PoK since it was well within Indian borders (as defined in 1947). Another wasted chance for a definite settlement of borders.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:So far we have confined our thread to only ground forces.
Here is a link to Flight Global 2022 that has the summary of aircraft with PLAAF (page 15 and 16) and IAF (page 20).
It doesn't have the latest info due to the nature of print media.

However, is good enough to get an understanding.
Please e try to compare the combat forces by type and qty and come to some summary.

Thanks, ramana

https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=83735
Again stick to pages 15,16, 20, and 26(Pakistan)
Hari Nair and Abhibhushan saars,
Can we make an evaluation of the fighter planes with the three airforces using Mig-21 Bison as a standard?
For example, a Rafale is 3x Bison
JF-17 is 1 x Mig 21.

I am thinking of making a qualitative comparison of the opposing air forces.
A plain numbers match-up will give only a surface evaluation.
One metric I am thinking of is Wing area/thrust to give an idea of combat agility and the number and type of missiles.
Will use Pk 0.85 even for the best.
I am expecting gun will play a secondary role due to the high-performance BVRs/WVRs.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vadivel »

The new normal in India-China relations

Ananth Krishnan



Welcome back to The India China Newsletter! It's been three months since I last sent out this newsletter. I'm happy to be writing to you again, and particularly happy to be coming to you from Beijing - finally. The move here - and the many complications involved - kept me occupied the last couple of months, which explains my silence.

This issue will look at the state of play in India-China relations after the latest 16th round of talks on the still unresolved Line of Actual Control (LAC) situation, and several interesting developments on the economic front between India and China, and try and make sense of what’s happening. I’ll also share my experience of travelling back to Zero-Covid Beijing and what that’s been like.

This issue is slightly longer than the usual at 4,000 words (there’s lots to catch up on!), so you may wish to click on the headline in your email to read in your browser.

Before we get into the India-China situation, a note on what it's been like coming back to the mainland. It’s been quite surreal entering Zero-Covid China, which has, at times, felt like a parallel universe after being in India. I plan to write more about this soon. What's usually been a painless half-hour train ride across the border to Shenzhen - one I've taken innumerable times - is now a day-long ordeal that involved two of the most painful PCR tests I've ever taken - one on each side of the border, barely a few hours apart. The nasal swab on the Hong Kong side was so deep and invasive it left me with a splitting two hour headache. Entering the Shenzhen side, the first big difference from Hong Kong - which has been caught in some purgatory between an ineffective attempt at Zero-Covid and a partial opening up to the world - was that every worker was in full PPE.

https://indiachina.substack.com/p/the-n ... medium=ios
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

Maj Gen Ashok Kumar writes on
Tibet question?

https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/ ... 17841.html
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... JZAuXLILPw ---> Report: Indian Army is going in for a 4G and 5G network of its own to be used in mountainous terrain, at altitudes of up to 18,000 ft, after China install 5G network near LAC.
pravula
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by pravula »

Well, which bands?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by MeshaVishwas »

SSridhar wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote: . . . Aksai Hind.
BTW, Aksai Chin is a Turkic word from Uyghur land (not Mandarin) which means 'deep white gorge'. Both Leh & Kashgar were important trading posts for Central Asian traders and goods were exchanged through Ladakh. The Chinese never set foot on these lands until the 1950s. So, we can refer to this as Aksai Chin without being guilty about that. We can also refer to this as Gosthana if we do not want the 'Chin' part. The Chinese did not even have a name for their land until the 19th century.
Thanks Saar,very informative as usual.
Always thought Aksai was desert and Chin was Cheen.
"Gosthana" it ees.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SSridhar »

India objects to recent airspace violations, CBM breaches by China - ToI
India has strongly objected to the recent airspace violations and breach of confidence-building measures by China during a special round of military talks between the two countries, while their soldiers and heavy weapon systems continue to be ranged against each other along the frontier in east Ladakh since May 2020.

The Indian military delegation led by a Major General raised the need to curb the "provocative behaviour" of Chinese fighters flying close to the LAC during the meeting with his People's Liberation Army counterpart at the Chushul-Moldo border meeting point in eastern Ladakh on Tuesday, sources said.

An Air Commodore from IAF's operations branch was specially included in the Indian delegation to discuss the "heightened Chinese air activity" in the region since June, which has seen Chinese fighters often violate the 10-km no-fly zone CBM along the LAC, as earlier reported by TOI.

China boosted air bases facing India in last two yrs

A fresh round of talks between India and China were a notch lower than the Lt-General-rank corps commander talks, which were last held on July 17, without any concrete progress on disengagement and de-escalation of the troop stand-offs at Patrolling Point-15, Demchok and the largest one at the strategically-located Depsang Bulge area.

China is also indulging in aggressive behaviour in the Taiwan Strait, with multiple firings of ballistic missiles and its fighters crossing the "median line", after US speaker Nancy Pelosi visit to the region earlier this week.

In eastern Ladakh, while there are two-three Chinese fighter sorties on an average per day near the LAC, there have been "at least two confirmed incidents" of the jets even flying over the stand-off or "friction" points since the last week of June.

All such incidents trigger activation of air defence measures by the IAF, which include scrambling its Mirage-2000 and MiG-29 fighters that have been forward deployed from their peacetime bases ever since the border row erupted with China over two years ago.

"There is no strict pattern as such but Chinese air activity, including by reconnaissance aircraft, has certainly gone up a lot all along the 3,488-km long LAC, especially in the eastern Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh sectors," a source said.

This is a direct result of China having systematically upgraded all its major air bases facing India like Hotan, Kashgar, Gargunsa and Shigatse over the last two years. The extended runways, hardened shelters or blast pens and fuel storage facilities at these airbases means the PLA-Air Force can now deploy more J-11 and J-8 fighters, long-range bombers and reconnaissance aircraft there.

This slightly offsets the advantage IAF has over the PLAAF, which suffers from a terrain constraint because the weapon and fuel-carrying capacity of its jets is limited due to the high-altitude and rarefied air in the region.

India, on its part, is keeping all its airbases facing the northern borders on a high operational alert, having inducted frontline Sukhoi-30MKI, MiG-29, Mirage-2000 and Jaguar fighters there two years ago.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

SSridhar wrote:India objects to recent airspace violations, CBM breaches by China - ToI


Snip...

This is a direct result of China having systematically upgraded all its major air bases facing India like Hotan, Kashgar, Gargunsa and Shigatse over the last two years. The extended runways, hardened shelters or blast pens and fuel storage facilities at these airbases means the PLA-Air Force can now deploy more J-11 and J-8 fighters, long-range bombers and reconnaissance aircraft there.

This slightly offsets the advantage IAF has over the PLAAF, which suffers from a terrain constraint because the weapon and fuel-carrying capacity of its jets is limited due to the high-altitude and rarefied air in the region.
Quantity has a quality of its own. Today the PRC is only able to slightly offset IAF advantage. 10 years from now they will be able to erase it totally. Unless the IAF comes down to the ground and makes a realistic assessment of PLAF capacity. When PLAF has inducted 150 to 180 tankers. Coupled with a fleet of 1800 to 2000 fifth and late 4th generation jets.

Add to that 20 to 30 thousand cruise and ballistic missiles.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by RCase »

ldev wrote:Even after the latest round of military talks PLAAF jets have flown close to the LAC on multiple occasions prompting the IAF to scramble jets in response. PLAAF flights (including an excursion across the perceived LAC over Indian troop positions) started on June 24-25 and have continued since including after the Corp Commander talks on July 17

Chinese fighter jets continue attempts to provoke India on LAC in Eastern Ladakh
No point scrambling our jets. Lure/ lull them into coming into Indian territory and then pull a surprise by shooting them down with SAMs. The debris will land in Indian soil and Cheen can try explaining that.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SidSoma »

Pratyush wrote: Quantity has a quality of its own. Today the PRC is only able to slightly offset IAF advantage. 10 years from now they will be able to erase it totally. Unless the IAF comes down to the ground and makes a realistic assessment of PLAF capacity. When PLAF has inducted 150 to 180 tankers. Coupled with a fleet of 1800 to 2000 fifth and late 4th generation jets.
150 + 180 Tankers would require long range AAM (which we will have shortly) to keep them away and it will require complete Air dominance to enable the to operate freely near the border. We will surely get 300 - 600 such missiles + a few more to drive the AWACS and other support aircraft away. Please note that it is difficult for China to dedicate more than 30-50% Aircraft to indian theatre. So unless they have 4000 such ACs, we will not face such a large fleet of ACs.
Pratyush wrote:Add to that 20 to 30 thousand cruise and ballistic missiles.
Alrite, Same funda as for the AC. Can they use all these against India. What happens to other theaters for them...I think we are well on our way to counter China. If this Govt is in power for the next 5years we will be on our way.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

SidSoma wrote:
150 + 180 Tankers would require long range AAM (which we will have shortly) to keep them away and it will require complete Air dominance to enable the to operate freely near the border. We will surely get 300 - 600 such missiles + a few more to drive the AWACS and other support aircraft away. Please note that it is difficult for China to dedicate more than 30-50% Aircraft to indian theatre. So unless they have 4000 such ACs, we will not face such a large fleet of ACs.

Alrite, Same funda as for the AC. Can they use all these against India. What happens to other theaters for them...I think we are well on our way to counter China. If this Govt is in power for the next 5years we will be on our way.
Several assumptions in the response.

1) you are assuming that the PRC will fly tankers close to Indian borders. They don't need to. Fuel the jet 400 kms from the border. You give it more endurance against IAF to pick and choose the best approach vector.

2) PRC also has long range missiles. In the absence of 5th generation jets or large numbers of high power broad band jammer IAF will suffer tremendous losses. Losses PLAF can avoid or absorb because of both it's larger size and the presence of 5th generation jets.

3) in the absence of India joining in a US led military alliance with an automatic declaration of war. PRC dosent have to worry about any of it's other theaters. In case of conflict with India.

The point i am trying to make is that the IAF needs to grow significantly and not chase nearly a 60 year old strength number that is no longer relevant. And one even if achieved in the next 10 years will still be hopelessly outclassed by PLAF.

It needs to think in terms of reaching 200 to 225 combat squadron strength by 2045 to 2050. Coupled with relevant force multipliers.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by SidSoma »

Pratyush wrote: It needs to think in terms of reaching 200 to 225 combat squadron strength by 2045 to 2050. Coupled with relevant force multipliers.
I think we can debate ad nauseam using walls of text and not agree on the other perspective. Primarily because we are viewing totally different scenarios.

However to highlight impossibility of "the ask" in your post.

we are currently at <40 squadrons, lets assume a higher number of 40. Target is 200 Squads, by 2050 i.e. 30 years.
Increase in number of planes is (200 - 40) x 20 = 3200 fighter planes. The rate of plane induction being asked is 3200 / 30 = 100+ planes per year. I have no clue who is going to build so many planes for us let alone how we are going to pay for this. And then the point of force multipliers.

If this is the solution to handling China...... we have already lost the war
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

If there is an asymmetrical method of dealing with the PRC that will exist from 2030 onwards. I am all for it.

But given what I have learnt about wars of the last few hundred years. I am not able to visualise a force that will be able to handle an agressive PRC in the absence of the size I am asking for.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yogi »

SSridhar wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote: . . . Aksai Hind.
BTW, Aksai Chin is a Turkic word from Uyghur land (not Mandarin) which means 'deep white gorge'. Both Leh & Kashgar were important trading posts for Central Asian traders and goods were exchanged through Ladakh. The Chinese never set foot on these lands until the 1950s. So, we can refer to this as Aksai Chin without being guilty about that. We can also refer to this as Gosthana if we do not want the 'Chin' part. The Chinese did not even have a name for their land until the 19th century.
Can we start calling it “अक्षय चिन्ह”?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheAvenger82/status ... -tZek8i7sg ---> India and China likely to set up Air Force to Air Force hotline to prevent possible escalations on LAC. The Chinese side is complaining of IAF flying extensively on LAC, specifically Mirage 2000 which are responding much faster than PLAAF anticipated before.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

Kailash Range redux?

Hope MEA does not give up what the Forces have earned. JMO.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shaun »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheAvenger82/status ... -tZek8i7sg ---> India and China likely to set up Air Force to Air Force hotline to prevent possible escalations on LAC. The Chinese side is complaining of IAF flying extensively on LAC, specifically Mirage 2000 which are responding much faster than PLAAF anticipated before.
Gurus performance of delta wings viz a viz other designs at higher altitudes including takeoff and landing ??
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ChanakyaM »

Pratyush wrote:
SidSoma wrote:
150 + 180 Tankers would require long range AAM (which we will have shortly) to keep them away and it will require complete Air dominance to enable the to operate freely near the border. We will surely get 300 - 600 such missiles + a few more to drive the AWACS and other support aircraft away. Please note that it is difficult for China to dedicate more than 30-50% Aircraft to indian theatre. So unless they have 4000 such ACs, we will not face such a large fleet of ACs.

Alrite, Same funda as for the AC. Can they use all these against India. What happens to other theaters for them...I think we are well on our way to counter China. If this Govt is in power for the next 5years we will be on our way.
Several assumptions in the response.

1) you are assuming that the PRC will fly tankers close to Indian borders. They don't need to. Fuel the jet 400 kms from the border. You give it more endurance against IAF to pick and choose the best approach vector.

2) PRC also has long range missiles. In the absence of 5th generation jets or large numbers of high power broad band jammer IAF will suffer tremendous losses. Losses PLAF can avoid or absorb because of both it's larger size and the presence of 5th generation jets.

3) in the absence of India joining in a US led military alliance with an automatic declaration of war. PRC dosent have to worry about any of it's other theaters. In case of conflict with India.

The point i am trying to make is that the IAF needs to grow significantly and not chase nearly a 60 year old strength number that is no longer relevant. And one even if achieved in the next 10 years will still be hopelessly outclassed by PLAF.

It needs to think in terms of reaching 200 to 225 combat squadron strength by 2045 to 2050. Coupled with relevant force multipliers.
could agree more on this point. We should get away from the 40+ squadran strategy, We should have a bigger number of squadrons , we need to numbers.
More Tejas++ and its variants and whatever we produce in our country should be orderd and production ramped up
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

More out of curiosity, there is an active conflict in progress, that one could easily categorize as a war, and that conflict is not 1v1. What makes anyone think an Indo-Sino conflict/war will be 1v1 (even today it is not)?

Does anyone think India is less important - in the scheme of world order - than Ukraine?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

Folks arguing for a larger squadron force should realize that the Govt is finding it hard to fund even 42 squadrons. Out of that 42, only 6 squadrons are MRFA (future). So the rest - in the decades ahead - will be all be local platforms. But finding funding for 42 squadrons is going to be challenging for the GOI. Focus energies on hitting that 42 number first and then move on to 50, 55 or even 60 squadrons.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

NRao wrote:More out of curiosity, there is an active conflict in progress, that one could easily categorize as a war, and that conflict is not 1v1. What makes anyone think an Indo-Sino conflict/war will be 1v1 (even today it is not)?

Does anyone think India is less important - in the scheme of world order - than Ukraine?
You are correct in a very limited way.

The fact of the matter is quite simple in mind.

If a nation lacks the indigenous capacity to handle a much larger and powerful adversary. It is during times of conflict , dependent on aid from another powerful nation to hold the ground and preserve its own interests.

Fundamentally the weaker nation is dependent on the level of interest of another nation in holding the line against it's adversary.

The obvious questions that arise from the above are as follows;

1) how long can the interest of this nation be sustained in fighting a proxy war with the adversary?

2) what happens when the two great powers reach independent accommodation with each other. Is the weaker nation still assured that it's interests will still be preserved after such an accomodation?

The only way to escape such situations is to develop indigenous capacity in such a way that India is always a part of the negotiation table and not dependent on the goodwill of other nations.

The point i am making is the more India is capable of standing on it's own feet. The more it is able to extract concessions from all concerned.
Last edited by Pratyush on 10 Aug 2022 08:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

Rakesh wrote:Folks arguing for a larger squadron force should realize that the Govt is finding it hard to fund even 42 squadrons. Out of that 42, only 6 squadrons are MRFA (future). So the rest - in the decades ahead - will be all be local platforms. But finding funding for 42 squadrons is going to be challenging for the GOI. Focus energies on hitting that 42 number first and then move on to 50, 55 or even 60 squadrons.
You are correct.

However, if a public discussion on a forum such as this can help shape the official policy. Then discussion on merits and demerits of an increase in force levels , should be ok.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

Pratyush wrote:
NRao wrote:More out of curiosity, there is an active conflict in progress, that one could easily categorize as a war, and that conflict is not 1v1. What makes anyone think an Indo-Sino conflict/war will be 1v1 (even today it is not)?

Does anyone think India is less important - in the scheme of world order - than Ukraine?
You are correct in a very limited way.

The fact of the matter is quite simple in mind.

If a nation lacks the indigenous capacity to handle a much larger and powerful adversary. It is during times of conflict , dependent on aid from another powerful nation to hold the ground and preserve its own interests.

.........
Yes, that is looking from a MIC point of view.

How about from a world order?

Do you really think even Russia would like a stronger China to emerge from ANY conflict/war (including Taiwan)? Or, how about African nations? ASEAN? Forget the West (including Australia/Japan/SK).

IMVVVVHO, India - arguably, granted - is THE ONLY nation to maintain some semblance of "balance" is ANY world order. As long as there is a strongish* India no matter who "wins" between US/Russia/China the rest of the nations can sleep well at night. IF US/China were to dominate a Mar-a-lago will look very tame.


* by "strong India": a GDP of at least $10+ trillion AND armed forces to throw weight in Indo-Pacific


To reiterate: just curious
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

You are seeing what has been bothering me for the last few years.

Regardless of what others are doing India has to be counted as it's own power at the table.

That requires a full gamut of capacity, scientific, industrial, economic and military.
ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ks_sachin »

Rakesh wrote:Folks arguing for a larger squadron force should realize that the Govt is finding it hard to fund even 42 squadrons. Out of that 42, only 6 squadrons are MRFA (future). So the rest - in the decades ahead - will be all be local platforms. But finding funding for 42 squadrons is going to be challenging for the GOI. Focus energies on hitting that 42 number first and then move on to 50, 55 or even 60 squadrons.
No the focus is on MRFA. IF I don't get MRFA then I will have a dummy spit.....42 be damned!!!
nachiket
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by nachiket »

IAF's squadron strength will probably go down in the coming years looking at current orders and projected retirements especially if that trial balloon about early Mig-29 retirement turns out to be more than that. There is no path right now to even reach 42. And here we are wet-dreaming about 200 squadrons. It behooves us to keep the discussions at least a wee bit realistic.
ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

Please take IAF discussions to appropriate threads.
Thanks.
Larry Walker
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Larry Walker »

Hitting PLA logistic nodes/dumps will be of more value in terms of preventing loss of life and damage to IA then hitting Chengdu with few missiles once in lifetime. If IAF can create gaps in the PLA AD in Tibet then I would rather prefer Jaguars and M2K's sneaking in and hitting PLA POL's. For hunting PLAN carrier group we need a combination of Global Hawks, Neptunes and Spy-sats monitoring the IOR 24X7 to detect and orient defenses from South India or Andamans once detected. PLAN carrier group too close to Malacca has very restricted freedom of movement and can be attacked with existing assets from Andaman, PLAN carrier group playing hide-and-seek 1K and beyond from Indian shores in IOR is just waste of fuel for PLAN.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/15 ... 4YDkzl8pww ---> In Galwan, Army medic Naik Deepak Singh, 30, who treated & saved the lives of wounded Chinese soldiers, was abducted by the PLA to treat more of them & then killed: new first-hand details of the 2020 clash in Ladakh.

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