India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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ramana
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

With Gogra-Hotsprings status quo ante of April 200 is restored.
Let's have a minute of silence in memory of Galwan heroes and Kailash ranges.
Not to undercut the multi-domain response teams efforts that brought us here.

Om Shanti!!!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by CalvinH »

I recently travelled to India-Nepal border areas in Uttarakhand and noticed that Roads have improved significantly. The main artery running next to the border is of quality and type that is much better than similar roads in developed areas of Himachal. Even the roads to smaller villages are all tar/concrete.

There was stretch in Tarai where road used to get broken frequently due to heavy truck traffic from nearby industrial town. The stretch is concrete and smooth. Barring few stretches the road from Delhi to base of hills will become four lanes in few years.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shaun »

After Tawang, Infra Buildup Gathers Pace in Eastern Arunachal as Army Puts Full Focus on LAC

By: Amrita Nayak Dutta

News18.com

Last Updated: SEPTEMBER 08, 2022, 09:57 IST

Dibrugarh, India

The Army is reorienting itself to increasingly pull out of counterinsurgency (CI) roles in the Northeast so that it can put its entire focus on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China—as part of which there is now an emphasis on building and strengthening infrastructure across eastern Arunachal Pradesh districts, top Army officers said on Wednesday.

Efforts are underway to ramp up infrastructure in these border districts with the construction of habitat and helipads at forward locations, strengthening operational logistics such as building better ammunition storage facilities, constructing roads and mule and foot tracks, and other security infrastructure to aid faster mobilisation of troops to the borders and for enhanced patrolling of the LAC by them
‘Combat readiness of high order’

Major General MS Bains, General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Army’s 2 Mountain Division headquartered at Dinjan, in Assam said the focus of the Army in the region has fully shifted to the northern borders (LAC) and the Assam Rifles has largely taken over CI duties.

“Road development, construction of habitat, and aviation facilities are underway. We are in the process of linking various valleys. We have clear timelines for capability development based on clear perspective plans for the future,” he told a group of journalists. “Our overall combat readiness in the region is of a very high order, primarily because of road connectivity and synergy with other forces, including the Indian Air Force and the paramilitary forces.”

Officers said all the three major valleys under the division—the Dibang, Dau-Delai and Lohit—are well connected at present.

A second Army officer said wherever roads are under construction, aviation facilities have been created for better connectivity, which also helps the civilian population.

The infrastructure development in the area also includes the construction of 135 4G mobile towers by telecom companies including in border areas of Walong and Kibithu.

The 2 Mountain Division takes care of five districts of eastern Arunachal Pradesh—Upper Dibang, Lower Dibang, Lohit, Namsai, and Anjaw. The state has 26 districts.
Under the latest restructuring plans, the 2 Mountain Division is no longer involved in counterinsurgency duties. Overall, around two divisional strength of Army troops in the Northeast have been moved out of CI roles.

However, the 73 Mountain Brigade, based at Laipuli near Tinsukia, remains one of the brigades in this region which is tasked with CI duties in four districts of Assam.

Why Tawang has been a priority

The north-eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh comes under two different corps of the Army. While the 4 Corps takes care of the sensitive Tawang sector and the Kameng area, the 3 Corps takes care of the rest of Arunachal Pradesh, also referred to as RALP

From strengthening infrastructure, pushing in the latest military equipment and technology, and ensuring significant troop strength to develop offensive capabilities, India has traditionally prioritised Tawang—fueled by China’s long-standing interest in the region for political and cultural reasons—over the rest of Arunachal Pradesh.

What also hindered much of border infrastructure development in RALP, particularly in establishing the last-mile connectivity to the LAC at several places in the eastern districts of the state are the difficult terrains marked by high valleys and adverse weather conditions due to which freshly developed roads often get damaged.

While there has been an infrastructure push in the region in the past few years, with multiple strategic bridges becoming operational lately, the last-mile connectivity to the LAC here has not been achieved in most places.

Among the areas under the 2 Mountain Division, Fishtail 1 and 2, and Dichu along the LAC are considered sensitive locations, even as officers denied that there have been any major face-offs with Chinese troops in these areas lately. The Subansiri and the forested Asaphila areas have seen Chinese transgressions in the past.

With the Army getting reoriented to move out of CI roles to focus on its conventional role at the LAC, RALP is now getting an infrastructure push to support the troops in this transition, a move that will also benefit the overall civil population, a third Army officer said.

Army officers said due to the treacherous terrains and lack of infrastructure so far, the troops patrol the LAC once or twice a month. It takes a long-range patrol a week or longer to reach the LAC.

This is in contrast with China, which has worked on ramping up its road network and other military infrastructure such as helipads along the LAC. China is estimated to have built 1,20,000 km of road network in Tibet alone since 1959, one of the officers said.

They added that the LAC along these eastern districts has been largely peaceful. There is a hotline and in the absence of any provocation, there have lately been only ceremonial border personnel meetings between Indian and Chinese local military commanders in this area.


https://www.news18.com/news/india/after ... 11345.html
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

The news article has added a few 000 to the length of roads built in Tibet. Unless those roads are terminating at the LAC every 5 kms or so.

I don't think that the Indian army would have stood still if that was the case. A response would have been made a long time before the current government.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shaun »

Pratyush wrote:The news article has added a few 000 to the length of roads built in Tibet. Unless those roads are terminating at the LAC every 5 kms or so.

I don't think that the Indian army would have stood still if that was the case. A response would have been miade a long time before the current government.
I wouldn't be surprised if the figure is close to what's mentioned in the snippet . The network of roads running in our perceived area is massive.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

PP15 cleared. Awaits inspection.

https://twitter.com/timesofindia/status ... tivig&s=19

With this Demchok and Depsang Plains remain.
Importantly status quo ante April 2020 is restored.

Naman to all the Galwan and Kailash heroes.
And those who fought in the multi-domain response.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

CalvinH thanks for the input on border roads.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

US loses leverage on New Delhi as Indian-Chinese troops disengage at Himalayan flashpoint
https://www.ibtimes.com/us-loses-levera ... nt-3611765
12 Sept 2022
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Manish_P »

Rakesh wrote:US loses leverage on New Delhi as Indian-Chinese troops disengage at Himalayan flashpoint
https://www.ibtimes.com/us-loses-levera ... nt-3611765
12 Sept 2022
:D really like that headline
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Raja »

China still blames India for the events (including the death of 20 Jawans). China still holds and claims even more Indian territory as it's own. China still routinely kidnaps Indian nationals in Indian territory and tortures them. China still prevents declaration of known Pakistani terrorists as terrorists.

It's good to negotiate and maintain peace. But let's not have any delusions. It is most likely a lull before another storm.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by shaun »

ramana wrote:PP15 cleared. Awaits inspection.

https://twitter.com/timesofindia/status ... tivig&s=19

With this Demchok and Depsang Plains remain.
Importantly status quo ante April 2020 is restored.

Naman to all the Galwan and Kailash heroes.
And those who fought in the multi-domain response.
As discussed buffer zone is the new technique of disengagement . These bufferzones are the one's where we don't have any physical infrastructure but patrolled by us. Despang plains will take more time as chinese have network of roads and other infra to lay their claim but it is possible that the buffer zone might exceed their roads. The cavet here is , what ever roads they have laid in those buffer zones will remain but no roads can be built by us in those buffer zones.
These will remain as our defacto ALC for "now". Our past inaction to build infra along our claimed line or atleast restricting the Chinese to build their own in our claimed line , will bite us and the present dispensation very hard.

Proliferation of satellite photography did not deter ,our MSM to make claims around "fresh" Chinese villages and other infra in our claimed line and is propagated as failure of the present govt although there is ample evidence to suggest that Chinese were dominating those places and built roads along. It's natural once you have roads , other infra won't take much time to come up , if Chinese wants. It's a catch 22 situation , if you disclose the extent of Chinese control along these decades , Chinese will use your data in their favor and if you don't disclose , MSM will do their bidding to show all these happened in last few years. Your are doomed both way.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by vinod »

Is China disengaging on Indian border a precursor to action on Taiwan?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

vinod wrote:Is China disengaging on Indian border a precursor to action on Taiwan?
No.

The PRC is just lowering the temperature. They always have the ability to raise temperature later.

It's a temporary phase.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Dilbu »

India, China pull back troops from key point
Indian and Chinese soldiers on Monday disengaged from Patrol Point-15 in the Gogra-Hot Springs area of eastern Ladakh, with the process involving front-line troops moving back to rear locations, dismantling of temporary infrastructure created there and joint verification to assess the full implementation of the disengagement to follow, officials familiar with the matter said.
This is the fourth round of disengagement between the Indian Army and Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) after the border row erupted in May 2020, and its completion has now turned the spotlight on frictions areas that are still unresolved along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) – Depsang and Demchok, said one of the officials cited above asking not to be named.
The disengagement at PP-15, announced jointly by India and China last week, is likely to result in the creation of a buffer zone of 2 to 4 km, as was done after the previous rounds of troop pullback from friction points, though there was no official word from the government on the latest pullback.
The process was completed in five days --- India and China had on September 8 announced that their front-line troops had kicked off disengagement from PP-15, with the breakthrough coming after the 16th round of military talks in July.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Cyrano »

Trust deficit is not the issue with China when it's ZERO. We _know_ they will again break the agreements at the first opportunity they get for doing so without generating unacceptable consequences for the military commanders or political leadership.

So India must ensure it is demonstrating and shaking these unacceptable consequences under their officers' and politico's noses all the time like training them with an electric dog collar until they are conditioned to think of provoking India as a non-option.

Unfortunately we can't rest on what's been achieved here with so much effort.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by bharathp »

i would rather have them doing the guess work as to "when the temperature will go up?" game. salami slicing does not have to be one way street
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by yensoy »

bharathp wrote:i would rather have them doing the guess work as to "when the temperature will go up?" game. salami slicing does not have to be one way street
+100
This is the only language they understand and respect.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ritesh »

Hello guys, heard the discussion at stratnewgobal about this.
Panelists were not much upbeat. Gurulog here would like add something?
https://youtu.be/ZWhf-n3d7Ms
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

ritesh wrote:Hello guys, heard the discussion at stratnewgobal about this.
Panelists were not much upbeat. Gurulog here would like add something?
https://youtu.be/ZWhf-n3d7Ms

Not much to add actually. Everyone after 2020 is cautious about PRC. They have to watched closely and carefully.

PRC has shown the ability to break all previous agreements. What is the assurance that this agreement will not be broken at the first opportunity.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »


PRC has shown the ability to break all previous agreements. What is the assurance that this agreement will not be broken at the first opportunity.
By ensuring there is no opportunity!
Not kidding.
Lots of serious thought by both sides on this am sure.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by vijayk »

https://twitter.com/Chellaney/status/15 ... 8XwbkVIRzQ
Brahma Chellaney
@Chellaney

After its encroachments of April 2020, China has skillfully used negotiations to compel India to accept realignment of the Ladakh frontier: With every new buffer zone it foists, India not only loses access to the areas it patrolled, but also is compelled to retreat further back.
Is he a hawk or 100% right or somewhere in the middle?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

He is a dove pretending to be a hawk.

His agenda and that of CPR is LeLi kowtow to US interests.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Roop »

vijayk wrote:Is he a hawk or 100% right or somewhere in the middle?
Well, he is a hawk, of course, but there's nothing wrong with that -- "hawk" is not a derogatory word, IMO.

But in this case, I don't know what he is complaining about. Aren't we all agreed that this latest disengagement / pullback (or whatever you want to call it) is simply a restoration of the status quo ante as of April 2020? So what is the problem?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ramana »

He wants to say Modi govt failed.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by VinodTK »

Roop wrote:
vijayk wrote:Is he a hawk or 100% right or somewhere in the middle?
Well, he is a hawk, of course, but there's nothing wrong with that -- "hawk" is not a derogatory word, IMO.

But in this case, I don't know what he is complaining about. Aren't we all agreed that this latest disengagement / pullback (or whatever you want to call it) is simply a restoration of the status quo ante as of April 2020? So what is the problem?
Potential problems:
- What is being said is by agreeing to the buffer zones we have agreed to not petroll in areas we used to.
- Because of the buffer zones Indian troops have lost access to Depsang (sp) plain; this will allow China secure access / connectivity to Pakistan via Karakoram
- China has built shelters / living quarters for 120,000 people allowing them to keep troops and equipment close by, which they could not before 2020
- hence deescalation has no meaning because they are close by and can go back their land grabbing as and when they want.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by mihir.mehta »

Roop wrote:
vijayk wrote:Is he a hawk or 100% right or somewhere in the middle?
Well, he is a hawk, of course, but there's nothing wrong with that -- "hawk" is not a derogatory word, IMO.

But in this case, I don't know what he is complaining about. Aren't we all agreed that this latest disengagement / pullback (or whatever you want to call it) is simply a restoration of the status quo ante as of April 2020? So what is the problem?
Choice of words is extremely important in diplomacy and no where has the phrase " restoration of the status quo ante" been used by anybody in our govt so far. So they are hiding something.

This from Gen Panag should help: https://theprint.in/opinion/no-war-no-p ... a/1129023/

By all indications - the entire buffer zone has been created on our side. Why would they step back. We had no bargaining cards. Coming down from the Kailash range was a mistake in the first place. There too we got a raw deal.

Listen to this councilor from Ladakh https://twitter.com/ndtv/status/1570006112073830400

- how this buffer zones deprives our shepherds of their ancestral grazing lands. Instead of encouraging our people to occupy land close to the border - the IA has for years been preventing our nomads from going close to the LAC. This I've been hearing for years!!!!

Our political class and Sr Local army commanders just don't have a stomach to fight - lest there be criticism if a lot of soldiers die. They want a clean 'no controversies' tenure - so they can rise further in the ranks.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Paul »

Pipe down....post for a few more years and then you will have more credibility on this forum
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by mody »

The buffer zone are mostly on our side of the perceived/claimed LAC, but that doesn't mean that the PLA can come within our claim line.
Consider the example below:

On the west bank of the Pangong, our claim line passes through finger 8. The Chinese claim upto finger 4 or even finger 3.
We used to patrol upto finger 4 and the Chinese used to patrol upto finger 4 as well. They had even built a road, upto finger 4. Even though our claim line was upto finger 8, we rarely ever patrolled upto finger 8.
At times soldiers from both side would come face to face while patrolling and in such cases, both sides used to pull back after some negotiations. All patrolling was done without guns or with instructions not to use firepower. This was being observed by both sides.

After the current standoff, what has been agreed upon is that the Chinese will stay at their base at Sirijap, just beyond finger 8 beyond our claim line and we will remain upto our Dhan Singh Thapa post at finger 2 and maybe patrol upto finger 3.
We will not be able to patrol upto finger 4 that were doing routinely in the past and the buffer zone extends upto finger 8, which both sides will not violate.
Now, one can say that the buffer zone from finger 4 to finger 8 is entirely on our side of the LAC and it would not be incorrect to say the same. However, it misses the point, that the Chinese will also not cross finger 8 and come upto finger 4, which they routinely used to do and have even built infrastructure between finger 8 to finger 4 to enable them to use good vehicles.

Similar type of arrangements might have been worked out at other points as well. In most cases, the buffer zones are mostly on our side, but with the understanding, that even the Chinese cannot enter these areas. Don't know if the agreements at all other points also restricts the Chinese positions, beyond our claim line, like on the west bank of the Pangong lake or not. Only those in the know about the exact details of the agreements would be able to comment on the exact details and the pros and cons of the same.

The way forward is to maintain good surveillance and intelligence gathering infrastructure in eastern Ladakh and continue to improve the infrastructure on our side of the LAC, except for the buffer areas, where we will not be able to build infra. Also, at a rapid pace the modernisation and indigenisation of the Indian military should continue and greater mobility and greater firepower and better ISR facilities are a must.

As I said in one of the previous posts, during the current crises, or from Jan 2020, relatively the infrastructure on our side and our military strength have both improved more than the same on the Chinese side. Primarily because we started off a lower base.
I expect the same to continue for the next 10 years, beyond which the military balance will be such, that starting a large scale conflict would be very difficult for either side.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by williams »

Even today starting a large-scale conflict is difficult for either side. Our infrastructure has improved by leaps and bounds. There should also be clarity in the minds of the security mandarins in Delhi that Chinese words cannot be trusted. All these negotiations are to give some relief to our boys who will have to guard these unforgiving areas with one hand tied. Things like grazing rights etc were gone in the 1950s when Nehru chacha slept while Tibet is occupied and roads were constructed on Indian territory.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by kit »

A Deshmukh wrote:
kit wrote:OT, a joint action with Iran to liberate baluchistan is not a bad idea
Iran has a restive Baluchistan province. Are they supporting Independent Baluchistan?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 587769.cms

Pakistan's Interior Ministry confirmed before the parliament earlier this week that anti-Pakistan outfits are regrouping in Balochistan through the Iranian province of Sistan and Baluchestan.
This confession comes months after some of the most daring attacks took place on Pakistani security forces in Balochistan--Pakistan's mineral-rich but poorest province on human development indicators. One of the deadly attacks took place in Kech, on the Pakistan-Iran border after which Islamabad pointed out that the attackers had crossed over from the Iran border.
The Interior Ministry also listed out the various measures it has activated to tackle rising nationalist tendencies in the province. The responses before the National Assembly--the lower house of the parliament were attributed to Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Deans »

ramana wrote:He wants to say Modi govt failed.
Yes. I think he was a good analyst years ago, but has become irrelevant now. When he was not `accommodated' by the Govt, he has turned against it with the occasional provocative statement - much like Su Swamy.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Deans »

VinodTK wrote: Potential problems:
- What is being said is by agreeing to the buffer zones we have agreed to not petroll in areas we used to.
- Because of the buffer zones Indian troops have lost access to Depsang (sp) plain; this will allow China secure access / connectivity to Pakistan via Karakoram
- China has built shelters / living quarters for 120,000 people allowing them to keep troops and equipment close by, which they could not before 2020
- hence deescalation has no meaning because they are close by and can go back their land grabbing as and when they want.
1. We used to patrol but the Chinese patrolled more often and with vehicles. If both have lost patrolling rights to the `last mile' the Chinese loss is
proportionately more.
2. China does not have connectivity to Pakistan via Karakoram and will not sue to the terrain. The point is moot, because they have road access via the Karakoram highway.
3. We need to build that infrastructure too (and are doing so) and don't need a confrontation until we are ready. The deployable strength of the
PLA in Ladakh /Himachal would not exceed 120,000. We can match that in terms of formations on or near the LAC, but need the infrastructure
to make them effective.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ritesh »

Deans wrote:
ramana wrote:He wants to say Modi govt failed.
Yes. I think he was a good analyst years ago, but has become irrelevant now. When he was not `accommodated' by the Govt, he has turned against it with the occasional provocative statement - much like Su Swamy.
Brahma has turned hawk and Nitin has turned dovish. The user comments on his clarification video has some disgruntled people.
https://youtu.be/bFnlflSGalk
The truth is not always black or white, but shades of grey. So what is really going on at Tibet border?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Dilbu »

Patrolling points do not define the Indian claim in East Ladakh LAC
The Narendra Modi government has made it clear to the Indian Army that the 65 patrolling points on Ladakh LAC do not represent the Indian claim line but only define the limits of patrolling as approved by Indira Gandhi CCS in 1976.
In East Ladakh, the then Congress government approved 65 patrolling points from Karakoram Pass to Chumar as the limits for the Indian Army to patrol and avoid confrontation with the PLA. These points are well within Indian claim line on the LAC and were defined so to maintain peace and tranquillity on the border with China, which had proved to be a superior military power in 1962 border war.

While the Narendra Modi government and the national security planners are quite clear that patrolling points do not define the Indian LAC claim in East Ladakh, the Indian Army must also not take the easy way out and only defend the LAC till these patrolling limit point on the map.

The disengagement from patrolling point 15 does not in any way restore the April 2020 status quo ante on the Ladakh LAC as the PLA must dismantle fresh military structures that have come up along the line since the aggression.
The Chinese must respect the Indian claim line in Depsang Bulge and Demchok area and restore the Indian Army’s right to patrol point 10 to 13 in the strategic bulge area as well as Charding Nullah Junction in Demchok before bilateral ties are normalized with Beijing. Simply put, the India-China LAC in East Ladakh is not defined by the patrolling points but by the Indian claim line.

Just as the Modi government showed the way by ordering its troops to take dominant positions on south Pangong Tso banks on August 29-31, 2020, and force PLA subsequently to disengage from north banks of the lake, the Indian Army must now be in the position of strength all along the 3488 km LAC as the adversary only understands the language of power not peace.
Fact is that the Indian Army has no options as the PLA will continue nibbling on the East Ladakh LAC till it has impose its 1959 line, as advocated by then Chinese Premier Chou or Zhou En-Lai, on the disputed border. China has made its intentions very clear on the disputed border, time has come from Indian Army to also do so.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... R1WHH17Cog ---> Chinese PLA troops along LAC in Ladakh now armed with new melee/sharp weapons.

Image
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Vips »

Army to procure 1,000 surveillance copters, 80 mini remotely piloted aircraft.

The Indian Army on Thursday began the process to procure 80 mini remotely piloted aircraft systems and 1,000 surveillance copters to bolster its overall surveillance apparatus along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China. Officials said the mini remotely piloted aircraft is an ideal multi-sensor system to carry out day and night surveillance and target detection in high-altitude regions.

The last date for submission of bids for the remotely piloted aircraft programme is November 16.

"The system will be able to provide high resolution imagery to enable target detection, recognition, identification and accurate location of adversary's location as well as build up of troops," said an official.

According to the request for proposal or initial tender, the select supplier will have to supply the platforms within 12 months of signing the contract.
The mini remotely piloted aircraft systems are being procured under the 'buy' (Indian) category.

The Army's procurement of 1,000 surveillance copters through fast track procedure under emergency procurement process is also aimed at boosting surveillance along the frontier with China.

"For surveillance needs of the Indian Army, expeditious procurement of surveillance copters for meeting urgent operational requirements is an operational imperative, where undue/unforeseen delay is seen to be adversely impacting the capacity and preparedness of the Indian Army," according to a brief on the programme.

It said the surveillance copter will provide aerial surveillance capability and sustained point surveillance to the Indian Army.

Surveillance Copter is an ideal multi sensor system to carry out day and night, real time reconnaissance and surveillance.

"The system will provide high resolution imagery to enable target detection, recognition, identification and accurate location of adversaries' build up," said an official.

The last date for submission of bids for the programme is November 17.

The Army has been ramping up its overall combat capabilities in view of the lingering border row in eastern Ladakh.
VinodTK
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by VinodTK »

60 Years since the 1962 war with China which started on October 20th 1962



Six Decades After The War, Chinese Border Aggression Persists

Well explained Nitin Gokhale jee
Pratyush
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by Pratyush »

WRT, the surveillance copter, why not build that many Rustum for surveillance?

What is the chopper bringing to the table that a Rustum cannot do?

If the requirement is for a chopper. Then why not build the LUH as a surveillance copter with addition of relevant payloads.

This 1000 numbers appears to be designed to bring imported solution through the back door. In the name of urgent operational requirements.
ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush,

I thank something has been lost in translation.

We r not tanking big choppers me thinks.
NRao
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Post by NRao »

Pratyush wrote:WRT, the surveillance copter, why not build that many Rustum for surveillance?

What is the chopper bringing to the table that a Rustum cannot do?

If the requirement is for a chopper. Then why not build the LUH as a surveillance copter with addition of relevant payloads.

This 1000 numbers appears to be designed to bring imported solution through the back door. In the name of urgent operational requirements.
India operates the black hornet drone, a rather high-end mini copter that costs around $192,000.

It is just shy of 6", can fly for about 30 minutes, and weighs a few ounces. Two per unit, with a controller, and a charger.

Image

There is a move to a universal controller - an area dominated by Tomahawk Robotics of Florida, who provide one controller for many drones:

Image

India absolutely has the brain power, but as I have stated many times, the capacity to take risks is nearly nonexistent (Baba Kalyani seems to be an exception). Such projects are within Indian capabilities. But, I very much doubt they will be funded.

Having said that I am sure any sensing capabilities in the Himalayas will be extremely challenging. 10 years to develop a robust solution - drone/s, comms, security, support systems, training, ...... Very difficult.

Since the US has a "need" for such techs, obviously the US leads. As far as I know, only China and Israel have similar requirements (including voice commands)
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