India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Denis » 08 Sep 2020 16:45

Things are definitely moving. CDS Rawat in meeting with the 3 chiefs. This is prequel to the Cabinet Committee on Security meeting led by PM scheduled for later today at 6 PM.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Paul » 08 Sep 2020 16:46

Paradrops on Chushul and DBO cannot be ruled out, hopefully some BMPs and older T72s are deployed in the vicinity

It is a Paki drone, Eva Zheng who is claiming Chushul captured....they are replicating the Balakot lessons where they claimed SU was downed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 08 Sep 2020 16:49

** Post deleted **
Last edited by SSridhar on 08 Sep 2020 18:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No discussion on rumours or psyops

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Bharadwaj » 08 Sep 2020 16:53

Deleted- wrong thread.
Last edited by Bharadwaj on 08 Sep 2020 17:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 08 Sep 2020 17:33

Twitter reporting Chinese vacating Moldo garrison and moving back to Rutog - is this a hint of Chinese preparing for an assault??

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nishant.gupta » 08 Sep 2020 17:40

https://twitter.com/KirenRijiju/status/1303294596202422273

Kiren Rijiju @KirenRijiju
China's PLA has responded to the hotline message sent by Indian Army. They have confirmed that the missing youths from Arunachal Pradesh have been found by their side. Further modalities to handover the persons to our authority is being worked out.


This is an unexpected twist.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Sonugn » 08 Sep 2020 17:43

Larry Walker wrote:Twitter reporting Chinese vacating Moldo garrison and moving back to Rutog - is this a hint of Chinese preparing for an assault??

Again this is disinfo.
Also 5 people kidnapped by CCP will be returned. via Kiren Rijiju/Twitter

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 08 Sep 2020 17:44

abhik wrote:
pankajs wrote:My markings ....

33°30'3.59"N, 78°48'1.95"E

Is that not Maggar hill?
Yes

Maggar Hill: 33°30'4.44"N, 78°48'1.70"E
Mukpari: 33°29'0.59"N, 78°48'54.12"E

Ref: Map from the latest Nitin Gokhale's video @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5SwWhyRfCg > India Vs China: Whiff Of The Past

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pushkar.bhat » 08 Sep 2020 17:53

The tweet that reported that the Chinese have vacated the Moldo Garrison has since disappeared. Its a fake. Nothing of that sort happening. I cannot imagine a Brigade Commander who would want to withdraw only to be shot dead by a firing squad back home. Remember to loose Chinese territory is High Treason. And @LarryWalker Rutog is a loooong way to march back to so that ain't happening.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Shanmukh » 08 Sep 2020 17:55

Larry Walker wrote:Twitter reporting Chinese vacating Moldo garrison and moving back to Rutog - is this a hint of Chinese preparing for an assault??


Great if the Chinese are voluntarily vacating Moldo. We should welcome it, thank them for their wisdom and move in. We can liberate Moldo - since the LAC is undefined, we can always say that it is on our side of the LAC. Who knows, the LAC might even be perceived to be on the other side of Ngari, Rutog and Lhasa ....

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 08 Sep 2020 18:12

Sorry if i did not put it correctly - my assumption is that a tell-tale sign of an oncoming Chinese assult will be that they will pull back admin staff and also move back from positions where we dominate and can cause them considerable harm. In this regards if Chinese are 'vacating' Moldo which we completely dominate - maybe they are preparing for an assult and want to prevent certain losses.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby AshishA » 08 Sep 2020 18:12

Okay looking at how the DFI thing escalated so quickly and was spread far and wide. I would urge everyone not to post unverified information from Twitter. Chinese might be looking at new ways to wage info war on us. We must not give them any ideas. We must be cautious.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pushkar.bhat » 08 Sep 2020 18:16

Larry Walker wrote:Sorry if i did not put it correctly - my assumption is that a tell-tale sign of an oncoming Chinese assult will be that they will pull back admin staff and also move back from positions where we dominate and can cause them considerable harm. In this regards if Chinese are 'vacating' Moldo which we completely dominate - maybe they are preparing for an assult and want to prevent certain losses.

You cannot discount anything. I believe the Army is in a readiness for all eventualities.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Iyersan » 08 Sep 2020 18:17

CCS followed by Union cabinet meeting at 6 PM . Matter is serious

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby AshishA » 08 Sep 2020 18:21

Iyersan wrote:CCS followed by Union cabinet meeting at 6 PM . Matter is serious

Some major decision might be taken. Not necessarily escalation though. Btw isn't Jaishankar away? I seriously doubt they will decide something big in relation to Ladakh when our foreign minister is away. Unless he joins in through video conferencing.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Iyersan » 08 Sep 2020 18:23

AshishAcharya wrote:
Iyersan wrote:CCS followed by Union cabinet meeting at 6 PM . Matter is serious

Some major decision might be taken. Not necessarily escalation though. Btw isn't Jaishankar away? I seriously doubt they will decide something big in relation to Ladakh when our foreign minister is away. Unless he joins in through video conferencing.

He could have already been briefed. Could be carrying a message to wang Yi

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Kakarat » 08 Sep 2020 18:34

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1303305393624330240
ust in: First pictures of 7th Sept attempts by Chinese side to intrude on Indian locations.

Location: Heights around Rezangla

Image

so the chinese brought Guan Daos for negotiation?

Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 08 Sep 2020 18:35

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 4578989057
d-atis☠️
@detresfa_

Sings of impact from #India's recent maneuvers near Spanggur Tso & South Pangong Tso visible on satellite imagery as #China is seen deploying in forwards areas to cut off & monitor any new advances part of the #IndiaChinaFaceOff
Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 08 Sep 2020 18:42

** Folks, be mindful of what is being posted. No need to type away quickly **

I have deleted all those posts which were building up on rumour/planted stories/psyops.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Denis » 08 Sep 2020 18:51

NewsX reporting: CDS and 3 Chiefs meeting over. At the end, 3 chiefs also met DM and gave inputs / briefed him. DM will brief the PM and CCS at the meeting which was supposed to start at 6 PM followed by larger union cabinet meeting.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 08 Sep 2020 18:58

China Airdrops Artillery Pieces, Paratroopers Near Indian Border Using Y-20 Plane
The Chinese military completed their first heavy equipment airdrop from Y-20 heavy transport plane during a real combat training exercise in the plateau area, close to its border with India.

During this live-fire training, the Y-20 aircraft, having maximum take-off weight of 200-tons, continuously airdropped multiple pieces of heavy equipment including 107mm multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRLs), Type-03 crawler-type paratrooper vehicles and armored vehicles. As the equipment landed on the ground, hundreds of paratroopers jumped off the aircraft, China Military, the official website of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) reported today.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 08 Sep 2020 19:05

Images of PLA. We are getting good at the info war.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 08 Sep 2020 19:24

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1303305393624330240
ust in: First pictures of 7th Sept attempts by Chinese side to intrude on Indian locations.

Location: Heights around Rezangla

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhZFVw6VkAE ... ame=medium

so the chinese brought Guan Daos for negotiation?

https://static.turbosquid.com/Preview/0 ... el_DHQ.jpg

For a second I thought that was a photo of tribes in the Maasai mara or something :rotfl:

Anyways Nitin Gokhale commented it might have been a photo from pre Galwan (Now he is not so sure). If they are indeed doing this now with changed RoE they must be quite desperate.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Kakarat » 08 Sep 2020 19:39

https://twitter.com/AbhishekBhalla7/sta ... 0569206784
Chinese troops in Rezangla area where the current faceoff is happening. See the barbaric weapons #IndiaChinaFaceOff

Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Deans » 08 Sep 2020 19:53

Dilbu wrote:China Airdrops Artillery Pieces, Paratroopers Near Indian Border Using Y-20 Plane
The Chinese military completed their first heavy equipment airdrop from Y-20 heavy transport plane during a real combat training exercise in the plateau area, close to its border with India.

During this live-fire training, the Y-20 aircraft, having maximum take-off weight of 200-tons, continuously airdropped multiple pieces of heavy equipment including 107mm multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRLs), Type-03 crawler-type paratrooper vehicles and armored vehicles. As the equipment landed on the ground, hundreds of paratroopers jumped off the aircraft, China Military, the official website of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) reported today.


MTOW of the Y-20 is about 60 tonnes (not 200) - its less than a C-17.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Dilbu » 08 Sep 2020 20:00

Indian Army consolidates position at several areas in Chushul; fencing done to prevent intrusion by China's PLA
NEW DELHI: Amid reports of the latest confrontation between the Indian Army and China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) at Pangong lake in eastern Ladakh, the Indian Army has reportedly consolidated its position at several key points in the Chushul area.

According to information, the Indian Army has laid barbed wire around the peak which it has occupied, so as to prevent the Chinese army from approaching. In the last meeting held with Chinese authorities, it was conveyed from the Indian side that if China tries to repeat the Galwan Valley like incident again, the Indian Army won't sit silent.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chola » 08 Sep 2020 20:06

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1303305393624330240
ust in: First pictures of 7th Sept attempts by Chinese side to intrude on Indian locations.

Location: Heights around Rezangla

Image

so the chinese brought Guan Daos for negotiation?

Image


WTF?! Weapons from the goddam Medieval Age? Seriously, I hope any Jawan seeing some idiot coming at them with this would just shoot. (Which I think they did from the recent reports.)

Those things look like they were made to kill armored warriors and I can't imagine someone in modern gear being hit by that. Using something like this to get around the "no shoot" rule renders the whole agreement meaningless. Just f-ing shoot, seriously.
Last edited by chola on 08 Sep 2020 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 08 Sep 2020 20:08

The Gobar Times twitter commentary is trying to create panic amongst the Indian twitteverse but from what I have it is mostly generating a few laughs. Seems the ghost of 62 is behind us.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 08 Sep 2020 20:22

After fresh tensions in Ladakh, China says it hopes for disengagement as soon as possible, citing harsh winter - ToI
Spokesman Zhao spoke about disengagement when asked at a media briefing about restoration of the status quo by disengaging the troops.
Indian troops crossed LAC on Monday, fired shots, alleges PLA

“You have a good wish. We all hope our troops get back to their camping area and there won't be any more confrontation in the border areas.
You know that place has a very bad natural condition and it is above a height of 4,000 metres,” he added.

“In winter this is not good for humans to live. So we hope, through diplomatic and military channels and through consultations on the ground, we can achieve disengagement as soon as possible and reach consensus."


Now, Zhao Lijian was decorated as a 'wolf warrior' spokesperson about two months back.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Denis » 08 Sep 2020 20:23

NewX reporting: CCS meeting over in 20 minutes. PM briefed by NSA and DM. No statements will be forthcoming after this meeting.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 08 Sep 2020 20:31

Zee news reporting that China has deployed 2 battalion's of offensive forces opposite Rechin La with Chushul as target.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 08 Sep 2020 20:37

^^
ALL Chinese "extra" force deployed around Spanggur tso since the start of the fracas have Chushul as target. Nothing new. Infact the Aug29/30 Chinese maneuver that was per-empted was towards Chushul.

The flat ground of the few lungpas around used as staging area for newly inducted forces. Nothing new.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Larry Walker » 08 Sep 2020 20:48

I understand - and Zee news has been yelling on-the-top that China has accumulated thousands of soldiers - so what they are probably trying to report now is maybe that the offensive elements of PLA are gathering in their staging area. Generally these offensive forces will be positioned further back. And all the different elements need to be deployed in their staging area before assault begins. And i am assuming that armies don't stage before the assault so as not to give our their offensive plans in advance.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 08 Sep 2020 21:07

So if the Chinis don't want to stay in winter, they cannot attack. Any war will invariably result in winter deployment.

Ofcourse MoFA spokesperson is the last person to receive info on PLA actions. He had no clue of Galwan fight, when asked.

However if winter is a problem, we need to drag the PLA in to winter.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rsingh » 08 Sep 2020 21:08

If you watch News X , 3rd WW has already started. Do not pay attention to News X or TV9 etc

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 08 Sep 2020 21:13

Any significance of the red and white patches at the back side of the helmets?
Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/AbhishekBhalla7/status/1303312140569206784
Chinese troops in Rezangla area where the current faceoff is happening. See the barbaric weapons #IndiaChinaFaceOff

Image

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby williams » 08 Sep 2020 21:20

rsingh wrote:If you watch News X , 3rd WW has already started. Do not pay attention to News X or TV9 etc


Yea same old news recycled. Nothing new. The bottom line is we are well entrenched and fully armed in the heights. Let the puny Chins bring their pickaxes or dig in the foothills. We can clean the cloak whenever we wish to do so. We know from Doklam, all Gobar times spews is empty hot air. :rotfl: EAM talks will also go nowhere unless Chins agree to deescalate and go back home.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby darshan » 08 Sep 2020 21:21

Even patriotic Indian news media has turned into 0.5 due to chasing of TRP. There are tons of things to discuss in calm manner. They should be making Indians aware that chinese can only build and put on a show but can't fight a war. They have not in thousands of years. Indian public doesn't need to run around if they see things go kinetic. Indian media is also not discussing stuck weapons programs and bureaucracy. That's what they should have been doing all this months.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby manjgu » 08 Sep 2020 21:22

the guy 2nd from left looks to be out of kindergarten !! this pic is definitely of recent vintage..till last time we never saw this advanced weaponry in PLA hands

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Vivasvat » 08 Sep 2020 21:28

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1200302.shtml
Outside forces are misreading China's desire for peace
By Hu Xijin Source: Global Times Published: 2020/9/8 22:18:40
People familiar with the frontline situation along the China-India border told me that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) has a firm control over the overall situation, and that in the event of a war, no matter how it is fought, the PLA will have the absolute certainty of defeating the Indian army. China will not lose an inch of territory along the China-India border. Chinese people can be rest assured.

Recent events have shown that China's overall deterrence has not been big enough to deter Indian troops from taking risks. The Indian side is still taking chances, misjudging and underestimating China's will to never compromise on the territorial issue. The Indian side always believes that China does not dare, will not or cannot go to war with the Indian side. Perhaps the fundamental reason is that China has not fought a war for more than 30 years and is committed to peaceful development. Some outside forces question our willingness to fight if necessary, arguing that we will compromise beyond the bottom line in order to ensure development.

Since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949, China's several foreign wars were all the result of the other side's miscalculation and underestimation of China's determination to fight. Before the 1962 war, India had no fear, encroaching on China's territory and challenging the PLA, and eventually India paid a heavy price. The situation today is very close to that before the outbreak of the 1962 war. As far as I know, the frontline situation is quite tense and there is a serious possibility of direct exchange of fire between the two sides.

I have close contact with the Chinese military and I am also a former soldier, I must warn the Indian side that the PLA does not fire the first shot, but if the Indian army fires the first shot at the PLA, the consequence must be the annihilation of the Indian army on the spot. If Indian troops dare to escalate the conflict, more Indian troops will be wiped out. The Indian army, which lost 20 soldiers in a physical clash (many of them froze to death after being injured in group fights), is no match for the PLA. Yes, we have some contempt for the combat capability of the Indian army.

China really wants peaceful development, so we haven't been a war with other countries for more than 30 years, and now we find that some outside forces are misreading China's desire for peace as weakness. Many Chinese are regretfully thinking that perhaps peaceful development is not the destiny of China as a great power, and probably fighting a war to demonstrate China's determination that it "dares to fight" is the price China has to pay. I want to warn New Delhi, it should be responsible for its actions, not to force China to demonstrate its strong will by striking provocative Indian troops who repeatedly crossed the LAC.

China's policy toward India is backed by strength and if ordinary people are not afraid of Indian provocateurs, how could the PLA be intimidated by them? How can the country be weak in dealing with India? Everyone must believe that China has an upper hand over India. We have all kinds of initiatives in our hands and we will not allow India to take advantage of China, no matter it is negotiation or fighting a war.


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