India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vnadendla » 07 Oct 2020 06:19

Larry Walker wrote:They will try to grab a price of land which is atleast tactically important to them and which they can resupply in winter from their established bases. Given PLA's penchant to fight a mechanised war - their airborne will try to capture such an area where the PLAGF can quickly push back IA and linkup before winter sets. I suspect they will try some stunt on DBO airfield. Their Armor can go till there and once we loose DBO - we will jot be able to mount a counter attack before winter ends and by then PLA will convert it into a fortress.


Two can play the game. I can think of 3 places India can retaliate and capture fast realistically. This doesn't include Gwadar and CPEC. If we make sure we don't loose DBO and gain those three....Thousand cuts and Salami Slicing met its match, Circumcision and Slice Dicing.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby V_Raman » 07 Oct 2020 06:46

taking over DBO is crossing the red line. India will be forced to retaliate immediately and bomb DBO by air.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pandyan » 07 Oct 2020 07:10

D.Mahesh wrote:
Anoop wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U89FKElYvrc

Lt. Gen. Kulkarni explains mountain warfare in some detail.


Read & listen v.carefully. This is 1 of 5-7 best experts worldwide.
Disregard critics. Not even one guy who prattles "War is too important to be left to generals," has ever won a war


Very nice review indeed. But, I wish the Nitin-ji doesnt keep interrupting when the guest is sharing some insights. Ask a question-don't interrupt when guest is talking-add more points. You can always take care of stuff in editing and post-processing.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pandyan » 07 Oct 2020 07:15

Shiv saar's insights. it makes a lot of sense.

https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/1313489762666319873

"Here's a real concern I want to voice. If PLA men sit comfortably in warm oxygen rich barracks while our men freeze on the heights - by next spring the Chinese will be fresh and our forces will be exhausted. Something needs to happen before then. Or else.

I think the Chinese need to be pulled out of their comfort zone."

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Shanmukh » 07 Oct 2020 07:45

Larry Walker wrote:
Philip wrote:The PLAAF have repoetedly inducted more H-6 bombers at their rear bases equipped with LTR stand-off missiles,numerous special forces helos,etc.for a brigade size airborne assault.

They will try to grab a price of land which is atleast tactically important to them and which they can resupply in winter from their established bases. Given PLA's penchant to fight a mechanised war - their airborne will try to capture such an area where the PLAGF can quickly push back IA and linkup before winter sets. I suspect they will try some stunt on DBO airfield. Their Armor can go till there and once we loose DBO - we will jot be able to mount a counter attack before winter ends and by then PLA will convert it into a fortress.


I love the inevitability of the whole thing. Of course, the Chinese will capture DBO and we will not be able to do anything as the Chinese will turn it into a fortress in winter. I am sure Musharrat gave the same logic to Nawaz Sharif before the Kargil `tactical brilliance'.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby bharathp » 07 Oct 2020 08:11

pandyan wrote:Shiv saar's insights. it makes a lot of sense.

https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/1313489762666319873

"Here's a real concern I want to voice. If PLA men sit comfortably in warm oxygen rich barracks while our men freeze on the heights - by next spring the Chinese will be fresh and our forces will be exhausted. Something needs to happen before then. Or else.

I think the Chinese need to be pulled out of their comfort zone."


dont we rotate the troops and send "fresh legs" who are also "warm" in southern areas?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby hnair » 07 Oct 2020 08:27

Unless they are going to wear those oxygen tents to battle, that is not how “acclimatization” works.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Paul » 07 Oct 2020 13:12

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/pakistan- ... ed-kashmir


Pakistan, China Setting Up Missile Sites Along The Indo-Pak Border In Occupied Kashmir

byIANS-Oct 7, 2020 12:14 PM
Pakistan, China Setting Up Missile Sites Along The Indo-Pak Border In Occupied Kashmir
China and Pakistan forces. (Representative image)
Pakistan is setting up surface-to-air missile sites with the help of China in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK), officials with the knowledge of the matter said on condition of anonymity.

The Chinese and Pakistan armies are reconnoitering the areas along the disputed India-Pakistan border to set up additional military infrastructure.

Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal R K S Bhadauria, had said on Monday that Pakistan and China have increased their bilateral exercises in the recent past.

"There is nothing to suggest collusive threat," he said on Monday during an annual press conference in Delhi and added that India is keeping a close watch.

The Indian military has for long flagged the threat of two-front war. With the disputed borders with China and Pakistan active at the same point of time, the armed forces are stretched to the maximum.

A top official said, "Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops were also seen in joint reconnaissance in forward areas at Deolian and Jura in PoK along with Pakistan's 12 infantry brigade as well as the Minimarg-based forces under Force Commander Northern Areas (FCNA), the division size formation of the Pakistan Army."

The official said that construction work for installation of surface-to-air missile defence system is being carried out by the Pakistan Army and the PLA at Pauli Pir near Lasadanna Dhok in PoK.

"Approximately 120 Pakistan Army personnel and 25 to 40 civilians are working on the construction site," said the source, adding that the control room for the system will be located at the headquarters of PoK.

"Ten PLA troops, including three officers, will be deployed at the control room," the source said.

"Similar constructions have also been reported at Chinar village and Chakothi village in Hattian Bala district of PoK," the source said.

It was further noticed that a road is being constructed by engineers from China from Jaglot to Gauri Kot and is likely to be extended till Gultari.

The PLA troops were also observed in general areas of Jaglot with the Minimarg-based 80 infantry brigade of the FCNA.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Oct 2020 13:34

This LOC given Pakis liberally Fire mortars and artillery why cant we destroy these sites under construction with 155mm artillery. Neither China or Pakistan can cry publically.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby banrjeer » 07 Oct 2020 21:29

two questions:

1) looking at effectiveness of drones used on Armenia (I am on Armenia's side). Is similar action possible on the heights that Indian foorces have occupied on the LAC..

2) There have been recent casualties on the Indian side of the LOC. The Chinese must surely be sharing satellite images of India position on the LOC with the Pukes.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby darshan » 07 Oct 2020 21:52

I have mentioned about remote controlled warfare before especially when it comes to china's inability to fight attrition warfare. Only present counter to it is disproportionate response and proactive offensive moves. India's MIC needs to start humming overtime. Real chinese border is thousands of kms away so sending drones is not feasible for India. Though disproportionate beating of pakis can be achieved to send message to chinese.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 07 Oct 2020 23:25

China’s PLA complicates troop disengagement over Ladakh. It has a condition

but the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is showing no signs of disengagement, deploying solar- and gas- heated troop containers and pitching snow tents on the ridgelines to defend its positions on the Line of Actual Control (LAC)
This was expected of of course, or at least I hope they did not think the Chinese will not make themselves as comfortable as possible.
While the PLA has transgressed into the Indian perception of LAC on the north bank, the Indian Army is holding ground on its perception of the LAC on the southern bank of the Pangong Tso. The Chinese, from their standpoint, believe that India has transgressed into their perception of LAC south of Pangong Tso.

“ If China is looking for incentive from India to disengage from Ladakh, then it will have to wait for another time. The LAC status was unilaterally changed at the directions of PLA Commander-in-Chief Xi Jinping. It is he who has to restore status quo ante,” said a senior South Block official who didn’t want to be named.

The really question is what disincentive are we giving Xi to go back? The limited economic measures did not work, situation on the ground has possibly gotten worse. Just doing a build up of forces is not going to work either - if there a belief that either they don’t have the staying power or cant afford it, we will be left with another no-war-no-peace situation (literally admitted by our ACM) with the adversary choosing when and how much the pendulum swings towards war.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rpartha » 08 Oct 2020 00:44

^^^ you are comparing tangible cost benefit between India and China and come to a conclusion that China can withstand these costs and they decide to take the final call. Start listing the intangible and then we will know how much India has gained out of this...

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 08 Oct 2020 01:13

abhik wrote:China’s PLA complicates troop disengagement over Ladakh. It has a condition


While the PLA has transgressed into the Indian perception of LAC on the north bank, the Indian Army is holding ground on its perception of the LAC on the southern bank of the Pangong Tso. The Chinese, from their standpoint, believe that India has transgressed into their perception of LAC south of Pangong Tso.


it is not a mere matter of Indian or even cheeni perception of the LAC anymore.

this fallacious idea of "differing" perceptions of the LAC has been done to the death.

It is now very clearly about serious threat perception by the cheeni from India to their CPEC assets, plans, risk overhangs to their timelines, objectives, endgame scenarios. The possibilities of a very hostile India as opposed to a merely "by standing" and passive India which foolishly permits a huge balance of payment position in cheeni's favor is worrying them enormously because they can already see India in alliance with other superpowers like US, the EU block, and Russia, and of course, the QUAD.

the escalating objections from a increasingly incredulous paki populace which is clearly starting to have second thoughts about the disastrous effects of the proclaimed CPEC on the paki body politic, the aam abdul and their society is causing serious concerns to the CPC led by xi.

the paki army will not be able to contain the aam abduls beyond a point by using India as the enemy, especially when India has already and wisely decided to give the whole OBOR/BRI/CPEC fiasco the go by and not participating in the project by decisively rejecting repeated cheeni and paki invitations to become a part of the project.

I do not think that the cheeni seriously thought that India would have the spine to oppose the CPEC. They would have had to make significant changes to factor in the hastily reshuffled financial and security implications of India unexpectedly staying away. The infrastructure that they are seeking to "build" in pukiland already exists in India to a large extent.

the costs of a long deployment will be therefore be accepted by the PLA planners as a necessary condition to manage the mitagation of the threats posed by India.
Last edited by chetak on 08 Oct 2020 01:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby suryag » 08 Oct 2020 01:18

The only way that the standoff can be brought to an end is to creep up slowly into new features across the LAC and force them either to come to negotiating table or go kinetic. Frankly, this no-war no-peace is not desirable from multiple perspectives, we have to force their hand.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 08 Oct 2020 01:28

Actually i think a long standoff is quite good for us. "Friendly" ties is not in our interest. Russians are not in a position to negotiate as it cannot make the Chinis budge. Yes, there is a burden of playing troops, but we have done it for decades and this time, even the Chinis will have to do their share.

GoI will not carry out the required steps for us to come out the Chini shadow unless the Chini threat is visible. It is GoI, which is the roadblock. We want Taiwan, Japan, US on our side and as allies. This non-alignment nonsense should stop. Russia cannot make us rich. We were on the wrong side during the first cold war. We cannot afford another mistake.

We cannot allow free run for the Chinis in our market. We can only stop their access using National security laws. Nothing else.

China can keep Pakistan.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby vijayk » 08 Oct 2020 01:38

https://swarajyamag.com/world/xitler-is ... -of-choice
Xitler Isn’t Going Down Like Hitler; To Stare Him Down, Trade Should Be The World’s Weapon Of Choice

A foreign ministers’ meeting of the Quad, the four-nation bloc comprising the US, Japan, India and Australia, sent a strong message to that rogue entity called the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on Tuesday (6 October). At the same time, it also sent an additional signal, that the US and Asian members of the Quad have differing approaches to the problem of dealing with China.

While US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo was upfront in calling out China, the other three failed to name China, speaking about it in elliptical terms. Pompeo said, “it is more critical than ever that we collaborate to protect our people and partners from the CCP’s exploitation, corruption and coercion. We have seen this in the South, in the East China Sea, the Mekong, the Himalayas, the Taiwan Straits.”

The tone was different with the other three members. The Japanese talked about developing a common vision for a “free and open Indo-Pacific”, and India about the need for “upholding a rules-based international order. The Australian foreign minister talked about the Quad having a “positive agenda”, reports Mint.

Where there may be substantive agreement between members of the Quad in trade, where at least three members, the US, Japan and India, have quietly decided to move trade dependence and supply chains away from China.

Trade is where the Quad can and should confront and contain China. It is the least damaging among many options.

India has already banned certain Chinese-owned apps and has chosen to vet Chinese investment projects most closely. It has put in place a production-linked incentive scheme to get companies to shift production bases to India under Atmanirbhar Bharat – an umbrella term meant largely to get more military equipment produced locally and to get key players in electronics and active pharma ingredients to Make in India (which is code for lowering China dependence).

Japan is offering incentives for companies to relocate supply chains outside China, and Australia is also trying to figure out how to reduce its China linkages after being subjected to state-supported cyber-attacks from Dragon country.

The US under Trump has, of course, been escalating a trade war for years, and has recently extended sanctions and penalties on Chinese companies.

If the Quad has, separately, done much to call out and impose economic costs on China for hostile acts against its neighbours and trade partners, and is yet hesitating to act more boldly in unison, the reasons for the ambivalence vary from country to country.

For the US, which is a Pacific power, putting a check on Chinese domination in Asia is critical. It thus has military (mostly naval), economic and cyber security interests at stake. But it faces no direct military threat from China. And, having actively disengaged from many military conflicts of the George Bush and Barack Obama years, it has no reason to contest China militarily beyond a point.

Japan and Australia face economic and cyber threats from China, but it is unlikely that China will ever escalate conflicts with them to the military arena. So, neither has an interest in provoking China beyond a point.

In the case of India, we face a triple threat: actual possibility of a military conflict, a trade conflict, and cyber-warfare. We are vulnerable on all fronts, though militarily we can give them a bloody nose. But we have even less of a reason to provoke a military conflict right now, when we are down on the economic front.

Most significant, the country that really faces a military and economic threat to its existence from China is Taiwan, but it is not even mentioned as a potential member of the Quad.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nam » 08 Oct 2020 01:49

Guard our line on LAC and get US,Japanese, SK, Taiwanese companies from China in to India. Two clear objectives.

The way to control the dragon is to hit it's export basket.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Philip » 08 Oct 2020 01:51

True,but Pak is allready a " kept" state by China! The Sino+ Pak equation is however harmful to India,puts us numerically at a disadvantage. It does complicate our strategy and adds scarce resources to the annual expenditure list. Therefore, hitting the PRC below the belt economically and diplomatically is essential.Unless they suffer pain, we are unlikely to see a " melting" of the Chin attitude and border withdrawals.

PS: Chin usage of container modules for troops can easily be replicated by us using heavy lift helos like our few MI-26s and Chinooks and KA-226s with detachable cabin modules to come. Modular prefab arctic structures can also be transported.
We must also build,carve out mountain tunnels/ caverns for troop
habitation .The Viets did it in UG settlements ,caves were used in Corregidor in the Phillippines in WW2, etc. These tunnels can be swiftly constructed in series ,linked at regular intervals with integrated C&C modules.,ammo and supply storage,with the smaller field shelters.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 08 Oct 2020 07:02

Folks to cut the clutter please do post the author/writer names for these articles.
Thanks for the trouble. ramana

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby rohitvats » 09 Oct 2020 09:09

Part-2 of my Ladakh Series

Daulat Beg Oldi Sector - Physical Barriers to Road Connectivity



A brief overview of the video:

- This video explains the three major physical barriers which impact the road connectivity between Daulat Beg Old (DBO) Sector and Leh, the capital of Union Territory of Ladakh.

- These natural barriers not only present physical and engineering challenge, but also define the alignment of any potential road development.

- These tree main barriers are the Ladakh Range, extension of the mighty Karakorum Range and the Shyok river.

- In addition, we also look at the alignment of historic trade route between Leh and Yarkand and Kashgar in present day Xinjiang province of China.

- This analysis is precursor to subsequent video which explains in details the road connectivity between Leh and the DBO Sector.


I'll be posting a detailed explanation on the existing and under-construction roads in the second half today itself. The video will contain the alignment of the roads, the risks associated with the alignment and measures taken to address those risks.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby SSridhar » 09 Oct 2020 10:04

That is a very nice video Rohit Vats, once again.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KL Dubey » 09 Oct 2020 11:06

chetak wrote:It is now very clearly about serious threat perception by the cheeni from India to their CPEC assets, plans, risk overhangs to their timelines, objectives, endgame scenarios. The possibilities of a very hostile India as opposed to a merely "by standing" and passive India which foolishly permits a huge balance of payment position in cheeni's favor is worrying them enormously because they can already see India in alliance with other superpowers like US, the EU block, and Russia, and of course, the QUAD.


The CCP's fear of losing their entire investment in Pstan is the root cause of the present scenario. With Modi and Shah referring directly to POK and GB as the only topics of discussion with Pstan(J&K being done and dusted), this was the only choice.

Meanwhile, low temperatures in Ladakh now dropping below freezing. Let us see how much extra daily wanking the PLA wallahs have to do to stay motivated.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby nandakumar » 09 Oct 2020 13:23

The Print has an article by Lt Gen Prakash Menon (Retd). I am unable to post just a link to the article. And BR policy prohibits uploading full article. But it should be easily accessed if someone wants. But the key advice that he is giving the Modi Govt that it would be a strategic blunder to give in to the Chinese demand for vacating the heights occupied by the Indian army in the Kailas Range in return for verified withdrawal by the Chinese to the pre April positions. There is no way such an agreement even if entered into is capable of being implemented in practical terms. Would the Chinese agree to a FIFO principle as opposed to LIFO principle which would be their preference. What if we vacate from the heights in Kailash range and the Chinese refuse under some pretext to withdraw? But leaving that aside what is the basis for the belief that India is politically inclined for such a terms of withdrawal? I haven't seen anything to that effect in the media. Even speculation. But it is a retired senior general saying that. Can someone throw more light on this?

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aditya_V » 09 Oct 2020 13:33

We have Chinese psychology completely wrong, they have no fear w.r.t India, rather they have long enjoyed violating border treaties and have gotten away with it. Their 30 year economic growth and getting away with Murder in Xinjyang and Tibet feel they can get away with anything.

They have also developed a Nazi type race temperament and see us like Other people of Indian subcontinent. The Pakis, Nepalis, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have literally fallen at their feet and in many cases have shown a slave like mentality.

They have also accesses deep inside the Paki state and seen a lot of bluster and no real capability, similarly having seen Pappu and co up close they must have done an India-Pakistan equal equal.

Given all this they expected to walk in and we will silently get back with our tail tucked between our legs, Galwan was a big surprise for them(their loses were substantial hence quite burials- if it was 10-15 they would have gone for public burials but their numbers are such they cannot disclose).

So they walked in expecting a walkover and now are looking for a way for us to back down- then don't belive as inferior Indian we can win against the Superior Hans.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Paul » 09 Oct 2020 14:55

Saurav Jha
@SJha1618

In other news, online pictures & their analysis notwithstanding, there have indeed been reports for a while that the Pakistanis have offered to embed 'advisors' with
PLA Ground Force units opposite Indian forces in Eastern Ladakh.



Given that the Pakistanis are constantly talking about 5G war and whatnot, I think it is time India also started embedding advisers with the Afghan National Army, besides arming select units in Afghanistan properly. Said advisers will obviously aid in the training of such units.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby pankajs » 09 Oct 2020 17:55

nandakumar wrote:The Print has an article by Lt Gen Prakash Menon (Retd). I am unable to post just a link to the article. And BR policy prohibits uploading full article. But it should be easily accessed if someone wants. But the key advice that he is giving the Modi Govt that it would be a strategic blunder to give in to the Chinese demand for vacating the heights occupied by the Indian army in the Kailas Range in return for verified withdrawal by the Chinese to the pre April positions. There is no way such an agreement even if entered into is capable of being implemented in practical terms. Would the Chinese agree to a FIFO principle as opposed to LIFO principle which would be their preference. What if we vacate from the heights in Kailash range and the Chinese refuse under some pretext to withdraw? But leaving that aside what is the basis for the belief that India is politically inclined for such a terms of withdrawal? I haven't seen anything to that effect in the media. Even speculation. But it is a retired senior general saying that. Can someone throw more light on this?
Two points ...

1. I have a bigger issue than the highlighted portion. EVEN if the Chinese agree to a fifo AND withdraw, given the nature of the infra on either side of the LAC, it is faster/easier for them to re-occupy the vacated positions, both theirs and ours. What then?

Indian leadership has to be very careful on how the withdrawal is structured and implemented on the ground.

2. Restoration of status quo ante has been our demand all along and my guess is that might be the reason why Lt Gen Prakash Menon (Retd) has written what he has written. I haven't read the piece but am just going by your summary.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby VinodTK » 09 Oct 2020 18:20

rohitvats wrote:Part-2 of my Ladakh Series

Daulat Beg Oldi Sector - Physical Barriers to Road Connectivity

A brief overview of the video:

-
:
:
I'll be posting a detailed explanation on the existing and under-construction roads in the second half today itself. The video will contain the alignment of the roads, the risks associated with the alignment and measures taken to address those risks.


Thanks for the details and through explainatin Rohitvats.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby chetak » 09 Oct 2020 19:16

KL Dubey wrote:
chetak wrote:It is now very clearly about serious threat perception by the cheeni from India to their CPEC assets, plans, risk overhangs to their timelines, objectives, endgame scenarios. The possibilities of a very hostile India as opposed to a merely "by standing" and passive India which foolishly permits a huge balance of payment position in cheeni's favor is worrying them enormously because they can already see India in alliance with other superpowers like US, the EU block, and Russia, and of course, the QUAD.



The CCP's fear of losing their entire investment in Pstan is the root cause of the present scenario. With Modi and Shah referring directly to POK and GB as the only topics of discussion with Pstan(J&K being done and dusted), this was the only choice.

Meanwhile, low temperatures in Ladakh now dropping below freezing. Let us see how much extra daily wanking the PLA wallahs have to do to stay motivated.




the many earlier avatars of the now evolved CCP have had these long standing plans to divert most of the river waters away from other countries and into the arid regions of china.

they do not produce enough food to feed their own populations and at this time they can manage to feed about 23% of their people and the arable lands that they have is around 7%.

their frenzied land grabs in central asia, russia, India and other areas have the underlying purpose of being appropriated and used for food production and/or river water diversion.

the hans are also into large scale farming of leased lands in africa and many other countries, and tellingly, their CPEC deal with the pakis include taking over huge tracts of paki land which the hans will then exclusively use to farm for themselves and ship the produce back to hanland.

This leased land farming is something that the saudis and other desert guys also doing, well knowing that the day when their oil runs out, there will be many countries waiting in the queue to pay the bleddy buggers back for all the oil blackmail that they have done and still continue to do.

the strategic muslim invasion of europe and america using military age male refugees makes sense when seen in this light. They wish to take over food producing zones and ready built infrastructure. The head of the snake will soon arrive to unleash a sharia blitzkreig and establish the caliphate. currently the whiteys are frozen like a deer caught in the headlights, confusing democracy for themselves as being the same thing as democracy for the sharia fuelled refugee hordes.

Also, don't be so quick to dismiss reports of the hans planning the building of hundreds of kms long tunnels to divert waters away from the tibetian region to help arid and semi desert provinces of china to start producing jobs as well as the much needed food grains to feed their hungry han hordes.

The SCMP report suggested that Chinese engineers were testing techniques that could be used to build a 1,000-km long tunnel, the worlds longest, to carry water from Brahmaputra river in Tibet close to Arunachal Pradesh to the parched Xinjiang region.

The move, that is expected to "turn Xinjiang into California", has raised concerns among environmentalists about its likely impact on the Himalayan region, South China Morning Post had reported.


These projects may or may fructify as envisaged presently but they are certainly thinking along these lines and thus their urgent need to seize, consolidate and dominate by force all the areas surrounding china that they feel may be needed to carry out these plans without hindrance.

Never forget that these are the guys who plan tens of decades in advance and often follow through with single minded dedication. The CPEC and its entire OBOR support ecosystem was planned decades ago, much before they even made the first move to grab aksai chin.

we seem to have forgotten that many "Indian" rivers do actually originate in china and they can devastate our entire security status that includes food, economic, social, military and indeed even existential aspects, if and when the hans make the moves to divert waters from these rivers.

The hans are looking at interbasin transfers, attempted on a scale of magnitude that was never even conceived before and over geographies that span terrain and distances that simply boggles the imagination. They may not even be able to afford it because the tunnel system is located in a prominient fault zone and earthquakes here are extremely destructive in their force levels.

their urgent plans to build a semiconductor and chip making industry in china will also need huge quantities of clean freshwater with virtually massive sources feeding into the infrastructure needed to do this. Their own yellow river is heavily polluted and will not serve the purpose as indeed are their other rivers unsuitable too.

not saying that this will happen but seeing the ginormous scale on which the hans make their geo political moves, we need to be watchful to not be overwhelmed by the fallout of their actions.

our so called blowhard think tanks are mere extensions of the hollow and pretentious khan market type tandoori prawn, single malt and cheap champagne mehfils frequented by geriatric has beens who have all passed their alleged "prime" decades ago. they seem to be pedestrian, pompous and mediocre, their "analysis" bordering on the ludicrous and aimed to please some FFNGO or another dubious paymaster.

we should have picked up xi's ladakh foray well in advance but we seem to have dismally failed and created a needless situation for ourselves. This foolish idea of watching the enemy only in summer but going back home during the winters to snuggle under warm blankets with a hot toddy is counter productive. The lessons of kargil it seems have not percolated into the dense craniums of the powers that be.

three national newspapers, the Hindu, the TOI and the Hindustan times seem to have been coopted and are running paid cheeni propaganda while calling for India to "compromise", as are many "Indian" websites funded by some well known industrial houses predicting dire consequences if we continue to anger the hans

why xi chose to show his hand at this time is a mystery but it's one that will unravel as other connected events start to unfold.

the han domination of afghanistan may be partly to keep the traditional invasion routes to India open just in case an opportunity ever presents itself in the future and also to provide the much needed strategic depth to the pakis.

India's missile programs, the nuke triad, the refusal to allow the BRI/OBOR/CPEC bandwagon to wreak strategic instability by allowing land and other infrastructure grabs in India and in particular, the unexpectedly tough stand taken by Modi in cashmere and ladakh has spooked the cheeni management. The harsh hostility of the Indian public is not something that they factored in and the active participation of the IA in formulating a joint strategy along with the resolute civilian authority was wholly stunning to the PLA. The blue label babooze have little or no say or even a role to play.

The demonstrated efficacy of the CDS mechanism has all but sidelined those who tried their best to prevent the establishment of this office in the first place. Thus, the lack of direct inputs from darbari babooze informers infesting the higher reaches of the decision making bodies to their controllers in the congi, lootyens and commie ecosystems has complicated matters for the pakis and the hans.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V4hVReKiaw


China has begun an epic project to divert water from the Tibetan plateau to Yunnan prrovince



abhik
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 09 Oct 2020 20:56

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 4120974336
d-atis☠️
@detresfa_
As temperatures at #PangongTso begin to touch -10°C, reports from #China's news networks coupled with #GEOINT with
@SimTack
help map insulated & heated accommodation being set up by the PLA for their soldiers deployed to the #IndiaChinaFaceOff
Image

Y I Patel
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Y I Patel » 09 Oct 2020 23:21

There is so much focus on winter preparations. This makes me suspicious.

What if the real plan is not to tough it out through the winter?

Another thought: winter is a consideration only for land forces. For the most part, air power would not be similarly constrained.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Aldonkar » 10 Oct 2020 00:22

rohitvats wrote:Part-2 of my Ladakh Series

Daulat Beg Oldi Sector - Physical Barriers to Road Connectivity



A brief overview of the video:

- This video explains the three major physical barriers which impact the road connectivity between Daulat Beg Old (DBO) Sector and Leh, the capital of Union Territory of Ladakh.

- These natural barriers not only present physical and engineering challenge, but also define the alignment of any potential road development.

- These tree main barriers are the Ladakh Range, extension of the mighty Karakorum Range and the Shyok river.

- In addition, we also look at the alignment of historic trade route between Leh and Yarkand and Kashgar in present day Xinjiang province of China.

- This analysis is precursor to subsequent video which explains in details the road connectivity between Leh and the DBO Sector.


I'll be posting a detailed explanation on the existing and under-construction roads in the second half today itself. The video will contain the alignment of the roads, the risks associated with the alignment and measures taken to address those risks.


Thanks for this post Rohit Vats. As a PIO who has lived all his life abroad it has given me a much better understanding of the ground position. The press here (UK) hardly mentions India except to point out how hard it is hit by C-19 or other bad news like crime.

abhik
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 10 Oct 2020 02:30

Video shows the IA (possibly SFF) troops facing PLA troops at the heights west of Spanggur Lake, we are downhill of the feature called the "Bump" - I think this conclusively proves that we don't have Blacktop.


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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Oct 2020 02:40

chetak wrote:
the many earlier avatars of the now evolved CCP have had these long standing plans to divert most of the river waters away from other countries and into the arid regions of china.

they do not produce enough food to feed their own populations and at this time they can manage to feed about 23% of their people and the arable lands that they have is around 7%.

their frenzied land grabs in central asia, russia, India and other areas have the underlying purpose of being appropriated and used for food production and/or river water diversion.

very interesting point....long story short this is 21 century lebensraum by chinese ....

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby abhik » 10 Oct 2020 02:43

Ved Malik
@Vedmalik1
·
Oct 8
LAC Face-Off. Is the call for status quo ante of Apr 20 now petering into status quo of Sep 20?

This is the most likely outcome IMO, with both sides de-inducting most of their troops, while each keeping an OP (or small detachment) at most of the heights where they are deployed.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2020 12:50

Abhik

Why did PLA stick to no firearms agreement at Galwan attack and retaliation?

Can ask General Malik also.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby ramana » 10 Oct 2020 12:51

And we have Blacktop.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Ashokk » 10 Oct 2020 19:41

Well prepared to take on adversaries, say IAF pilots deployed in Ladakh
LEH: Amid border tensions with China, Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots deployed close to Line of Actual Control say that the force is adequately prepared to deal with any situation and equipped to tackle any threat.
ANI team visited Leh airbase and saw a flurry of activity as winter sets in. Transport aircraft flew at regular intervals to ensure supplies and equipment for troops in higher reaches during the winter months. The roar of fighter jets could be heard from a distance and evoked a sense of comfort over the level of preparations of IAF.
There were sorties by C-17 Globemaster, Ilyushin-76 and Antonio-32 :mrgreen: transport along with Apache attack and Chinook heavy-lift choppers. The MIG-29s also carried out sorties from the base.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby KL Dubey » 10 Oct 2020 23:44

abhik wrote:Video shows the IA (possibly SFF) troops facing PLA troops at the heights west of Spanggur Lake, we are downhill of the feature called the "Bump" - I think this conclusively proves that we don't have Blacktop.


This terrain does not seem to match the west end of Spanggur Tso.

And if the lake is really the west end of Spanggur Tso, given the short distance from the IA post to the lakeshore as shown in the video, the IA would be well east of the Spanggur gap. If that is true, PLA is in a tight situation.

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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2

Postby Ankit Desai » 11 Oct 2020 01:15

abhik wrote:Video shows the IA (possibly SFF) troops facing PLA troops at the heights west of Spanggur Lake, we are downhill of the feature called the "Bump" - I think this conclusively proves that we don't have Blacktop.


It is the Bump.

https://twitter.com/bishwa55900127/stat ... 3254054912

Image

-Ankit


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