Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

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ks_sachin
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

SSridhar wrote:
Saichand K wrote:sfsfsdvssd
What ?
Encrypted SDR comms!!!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Saichand K »

ks_sachin wrote:
SSridhar wrote: What ?
Encrypted SDR comms!!!
Sorry. Couldnt delete the comment. New to the forum. What I was typing was, these high voltage tests are also being carried out on Radome of Tejas in High Voltage lab in IISc. Prof. UdayaKumar was consulting for lightening studies for Tejas Program. So saw similar tests in IISc high voltage lab as well.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by mody »

basant wrote:By color it looks like the old one. The new radome was already qualified by Chobam, but not sure if they'd repeat the tests.
The question was more about knowing if we are trying to develop a new quartz based radome to replace the Cobham radome or the pictures are of the old Kevlar based radome which was used previsouly? If they are of the old Kevlar radome, then it just shows the amount of tests and testing infrastructure required to develop the various parts of a fighter aircraft. If the photos are of a new indigenous quartz radome being tested, then that's better news. In future dependency on foreign vendors would reduce and so would the cost of the plane.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

I have not come across any talk on quartz radome. Most likely, these were old pictures, if not some development on the previous Kevlar radome. There was some speculation long ago on a new radome for Mk2.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Covid-19 hits HAL: 100 dead, projects affected
https://www.newindianexpress.com/states ... ssion=true
BENGALURU: The defence public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has been hit badly by Covid-19, which has claimed the lives of at least 100 of its employees, infected 4,000 others, and impacted crucial defence projects, like the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and Light Combat Helicopter (LCH).

Over 450 vendors are involved in the LCA project and if the work outside is hit, it will also affect the project at the PSU. In the financial year 2020-21, HAL secured the largest-ever defence contract for an Indian company to manufacture 83 LCA MK-IAs.In the first two months of the first quarter of 2021-22, around Rs 1,200 crore worth of revenue from sales was lost as the PSU could not deliver products as planned because of the disruption caused by the pandemic.

HAL Chairman and Managing Director R Madhavan said, “Once deliveries happen, maybe the sales will recover. Man hours lost have to be recovered through extra effort. We were affected badly as a large number of our employees were infected.” But, Madhavan said, the long-term project performance of Light Combat Aircraft will not be affected as they will have enough time to recover and meet the timelines.

But, Madhavan said, the long-term project performance of LCA will not be affected as they will have enough time to recover and meet the timelines. But the Covid-triggered mayhem has led to a severe disruption in the supply chain, both within and outside the country. “The supply chain has to get back in shape quickly, including the supply of raw material from original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) from within and outside India. If these two happen, we should be able to meet our goals. There should not be any disruptions beyond July which is crucial,” he said.

“The production activity for the last two months has been less. Though employees are working, we depend on material coming from vendors and that has not happened to the extent we had expected. As international flight operations were disrupted, the supply of material from OEMs aboard too got affected. Hopefully, things will improve,” he said.The fallout is this: Four LCAs that are ready are yet to be handed over to the Indian Air Force; the Dornier aircraft project has been hit as material is not coming from Line Replacement Units; and the LCH orders from the Centre have been delayed.

Many employees at the Helicopters Final Build Area tested positive and they were forced to stop even the flight trials. Employees at Bengaluru, Nasik, Kanpur and Lucknow units have been hit badly, forcing the defence PSU to stop operations for two weeks in May. “The first quarter will be a bit disappointing as far as financials are concerned. Hopefully, things will improve from next week and we would be able to recover like last time,” Madhavan said.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by hemant_sai »

CCP is indeed way ahead of GoI. They are achieving their goals with steady pace by hook or crook.
If they are willing to wait for another 20 years with same tactics, they don' need to fight any war to achieve their goals.

Earlier I was hoping that by 2030, India will be significantly different in its capability and approach. But I am convinced that even in 2030 India will be business as usual.

Hopeless !!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ramana »

Hemant what value is added in that post other than a rant?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

Ajay Banerjee reports:

Pulling out of Covid surge, Production Of jets and copters to pick up. CMD HAL tells @thetribunechd
he can make up for lost time hopes there is no 3rd wave of Covid.

https://twitter.com/ajaynewsman/status/ ... 57537?s=19

Image
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ramana »

Key takeaways:
Covid did impact HAL production
Four Tejas are ready to joind the IAF fleet.
10 FOC to complete this year.
Trainers to begin 2022
AMCA will be HAL and Private partnership.

LCH and LUH still not clear.
Common IMRH for three services
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by chetonzz »

ramana wrote:Key takeaways:
Covid did impact HAL production
Four Tejas are ready to joind the IAF fleet.
10 FOC to complete this year.
Trainers to begin 2022
AMCA will be HAL and Private partnership.

LCH and LUH still not clear.
Common IMRH for three services
correction: 10 FOC to complete by fiscal year (on/before March-22).
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Why will they start production of trainers from Mk1A order without building the trainers of Mk1 order...? I guess there is a mistake there... He is probably talking about deliveries of trainers from Mk1 order which will commence from 2022-23...
-
One thing they can do is produce all the 18 trainers together from 2023 to 2025 in the current lines... Current lines can change to Mk1A after completion of trainers...
This will help train pilots faster and will also keep the line busy in case of any unforseen delay in Mk1A certification...
Mk1A production can anway start on the 3rd line parallely with first deliveries in 2024...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by srai »

^^^
LCA Mk1 FOC Trainers look to be built for both orders in combined mode:
4 + 4 - Mk1 order
10 - Mk1A order

Likely a separated line. HAL has plans for LCA SPORT production too.

8 N-LCA Mk1/A too
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

srai wrote:^^^
HAL has plans for LCA SPORT production too.

8 N-LCA Mk1/A too
Unless there are firm orders (if not signed, atleast committed orders) from services, I don't think production rate will increase...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Nobody in the world will setup a production ecosystem if there not orders for atleast 7-8 years production, all countries went through this cycle. If JF 17 can be ordered in nos, I think LCA navy, lift Mk1 need more orders to ramp up production in this decade which will definitely help the Mk2 and AMCA programs come online much faster. M-2000 program, plant, practices , much of it was used in Rafale in an incremental manner.

Can a child go from 8th std to 12td standard directly?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ramana »

Indian MoD is geared to.buy from abroad. It's not for sustainability of domestic production.
Hence govt owned factory were setup.
This has three bottle necks.

DPSU and OFB became sarkari extensions and all sorts of inefficiencies crept in, Shoddy quality, trade unions, pretend work, extensive delays. Not one MoD minister or minister for defence production tried to fix this in the decades of non BJP for this was excuse for preferred option of imports.

Budgets are annual and favor import buys from off the shelf. No firm commitment for long term purchases so mfg can plan for the factory.. Even if its there, service can come up with reasons/excuses to justify imports. E.g Dhanush.

Thirdly services got used to import for various reasons described to death in other threads.
These factors have jeopardized national security to quite an extent.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Barath »

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... -aircraft/

Malaysia has release a RFP for 18 flight lead in trainer - light combat aircraft. Tender closes Sep 22.

In Dec 2018 RFI, HAL Tejas was one of eight responses.

This is to replace 18 BAE Hawk 108 and 208 light combat aircraft and 7 MB-339CM trainers operated by the Royal Malaysian Air Force or RMAF, with both fleets having been worn down by attrition. Article says Malaysian trigger was flights by China over disputed shoals of South China Sea. While Malaysia has 8 Hornet (original bug) and 18 Su MKM (inspired by India's MKI), they have not been able to garner funds to upgrade their Mig29s.

I guess HAL has some scrambling to respond with a convincing proposition that can take on the competition on technical, financial, industrial and diplomatic grounds

The possible competition based on the RFI :

Boeing T-7 Red Hawk, South Korea’s KAI FA-50, the Italian Leonardo M-346 Master, India’s HAL Tejas, China-Pakistani PAC JF-17 Thunder, China’s Hongdu L-15 and Russia’s Yakolev Yak-130 and the Czech Aero Vodochody L-39NG.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Err_> 2 Chinese aircraft in a contest triggered by worries over Chinese overflights. My money will be on the Korean TAI-50
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

ramana wrote:Indian MoD is geared to.buy from abroad. It's not for sustainability of domestic production.
Hence govt owned factory were setup.
This has three bottle necks.

DPSU and OFB became sarkari extensions and all sorts of inefficiencies crept in, Shoddy quality, trade unions, pretend work, extensive delays. Not one MoD minister or minister for defence production tried to fix this in the decades of non BJP for this was excuse for preferred option of imports.

Budgets are annual and favor import buys from off the shelf. No firm commitment for long term purchases so mfg can plan for the factory.. Even if its there, service can come up with reasons/excuses to justify imports. E.g Dhanush.

Thirdly services got used to import for various reasons described to death in other threads.
These factors have jeopardized national security to quite an extent.
Ramana you forget that for a long time the services were justified in the imports. We simply did not have the technological base that we enjoy today to develop even basic things for our soldiers - even today we cannot do a rifle properly….
The forces should support domestic industry now that it is taking root but from the 50s to the 80s we had nothing but the OFB and pray tell what innovation did they bring. Also in earliers times DRDO’s product were no better..I was at an AFB in the Western Sector in the early 90s and the Indra radars used by the IAF were the equivalents of hangar queens. If we were considering a East German version of the AK in the 1980s that should tell you something yes. And that it took us the better part of more than a decade to design a simple Assault rifle which happens to be a mishmash of a number different designs is testament to that.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

$700 million fighter jet engine deal with US soon, negotiations almost done
India is set to sign another major defence deal with the US, with negotiations almost over to acquire fighter jet engines worth $700 million to power the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The jet engines, to be bought from General Electric (GE), are for the recent order of 83 of the LCA Mk1A version placed by the Indian Air Force.

India would place an order for 100 GE404 engines.
Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... aign=cppst
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by vcsekhar »

ashishvikas wrote:$700 million fighter jet engine deal with US soon, negotiations almost done
India is set to sign another major defence deal with the US, with negotiations almost over to acquire fighter jet engines worth $700 million to power the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The jet engines, to be bought from General Electric (GE), are for the recent order of 83 of the LCA Mk1A version placed by the Indian Air Force.

India would place an order for 100 GE404 engines.
I dont know what negotiations are even possible, GE knows that HAL does not have any alternative to the engines. They can charge whatever they want and they probably will. Sounds like a lot of drama to delay the procurement.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by sum »

^^ Agree...the only "negotiations" would be for some other favors elsewhere( buy other weapons paying top $$/get access in some other areas etc) to "reduce" the cost of the GE engines.

We literally have no leverage on the engine choice after the Kaveri story ended. Any engine change now would literally be the end of the Mk1A program
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

sum wrote:^^ Agree...the only "negotiations" would be for some other favors elsewhere( buy other weapons paying top $$/get access in some other areas etc) to "reduce" the cost of the GE engines.

We literally have no leverage on the engine choice after the Kaveri story ended. Any engine change now would literally be the end of the Mk1A program
So after years of getting this treatment from the Russians, we finally put on a display of being "upset" over blackmail? What else do you expect or have become used to? The saying they taught us in school ran something like - "Beggars cannot be choosers"! The roosis want commitment of $10B of purchases before sending their junk over. The only choice is to re-double efforts and develop local MIC. The key to that lies with the Kaveri - get it to work by hook or by crook or else learn to Bend over.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Barath »

sum wrote:^^ Agree...the only "negotiations" would be for some other favors elsewhere( buy other weapons paying top $$/get access in some other areas etc) to "reduce" the cost of the GE engines.

We literally have no leverage on the engine choice after the Kaveri story ended. Any engine change now would literally be the end of the Mk1A program
That's not how it works. Buying weapons from Raytheon (for example) does GE absolutely no good - to reduce price. And no US government is going to lean on GE to reduce its price; GE shareholders and everyone else will scream bloody murder and file lawsuits.

GE will get far more over lifetime of the plane than it would from initial purchase. That, also, is an inescapable fact.

The 404 engine has been purchased before by India and has also been sold to others, and so, there are benchmarks. There can be variance in price due to india specific config , (the indian version is the highest thrust version in GE 404, with coatings etc to match)or due to inflation, but it can't be arbitrary

Besides, GE hopes to do a lot more business in India (eg TEDBF, AMCA Mk1, LCA Mk2 etc), and it won the competition for 414 engine squarely (when Mk1A was not in the roadmap). Thats not even counting civilian GE engines.

GE also provided a price for ToT and license manufacturing for Mk1A engines on Indian request - and India turned it. (Part of the reason why Mk1A approval took so long)

The vast majority of planes have single engine options only. No point cribbing about it. Unless you plan to do something.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Barath »

https://www.eletimes.com/astra-mk1-inte ... be-enabled

Astra Mk1 integration with Tejas Mk1 LSP ongoing. (Elta El 2032 radar)

Captive carry flight tests and test firings expected in next few weeks.

Astra Mk1 will be deployed to Tejas Mk1 inckuding the 1st squadron of IOC config, (and the FOC sqadron) and all the trainers (which also have El2032 radar, BTW). It will be integrated to El 2052 for Mk1A (2023 target date for Mk1A), and to Uttam (2025 production date for Uttam) in future.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

This is great news!

We can hope to see the day when an Indian plane fires an Indian missile
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ArjunPandit »

LakshmanPST wrote:Not sure about accuracy of this news. But would be a major milestone once it happens.
https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 78624?s=19
The IAF will start deploying indigenously developed Tejas on the western front by mid this year frm their home base in Sulur.
Tejas temporarily had deployed in the western front close to the Pak border last yr bt that not permanent.
2nd squadron at the home base in Sulur, with more aircraft in the pipeline to be delivered in the next 2 months, the first squadron will move to the western front base to make space for the second squadron.
FOC variant of the Second squadron is likely to be posted at Srinagar AF Base to replace the Mig-21 squadron.
the delivery is not picking up as we would have liked. Not to compare but even lazy french Dassault has been delivering with a reasonable precision during covid period. Indranil/JayS anything at your end?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

It's 26th July already... HAL chief claimed to deliver 4 this month!

This will not create confidence amongst any potential customers no matter how superior LCA is to FC-1. Does this delay in delivery has anything to do with the forward deployment of Tejas FOC squadron (like updating logistics facilities there) :?:
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vips »

VEM Technologies manufactures Centre Fuselage for Tejas.

Hyderabad’s Aerospace and Defence company VEM Technologies, handed over the first ‘Centre Fuselage for Light Combat Aircraft – Tejas’ to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) on Monday.

VEM Technologies is the production partner for ‘Centre Fuselage’ fabricated in VEM with the support from HAL – LCA Division. The Centre Fuselage is assembled with 1595 parts of Mechanical and Composite structures certified by HAL QC and DGAQA.

The state of the art infrastructure including the Hi-precision Machinery, Metallurgical Processes and Treatments and Pneumo-hydraulic systems, Fuel systems, Automated PCBAs, Composites, RF & MW, Electro-Optics and Electrical Integration facilities is established by the VEM to build the integrated systems for Land, Air and Naval Systems.

The dedicated line established for the productionisation of Centre Fuselage for LCA – Tejas is expected to deliver good volumes to HAL to fulfill the present and the future orders from Indian Armed Forces.

HAL’s Chairman and Managing Director R. Madhavan congratulated VEM Technologies for its dedication and competencies demonstrated in building the CFL for LCA – Tejas.

HAL-LCA Div–General Manager, E P Jayadeva & HAL-Avionics Division,-General Manager, Arun J Sarkatehave also congratulated VEM Technologies on the successful completion of Manufacturing, Assembly & Testing of Centre Fuselage Assembly.

Principal Secretary, Industries & Commerce (I&C), Department of Telangana government, Jayesh Ranjan conveyed his wishes to VEM for its achievement in providing a major share of India’s first ever Light Combat Aircraft – Tejas. Telangana State has become the hub for Aircraft systems and Missile systems, he added.

VEM Technologies CMD, V. Venkata Raju acknowledged the support and guidance provided by HAL team and the DGAQA and appreciated the VEM team in making the Centre Fuselage programme successful.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

^^^
Congratulations to team VEM.

Too many names in the report. Does it really matter who wished whom?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by fanne »

Indranil, quick question for you. In one of the tweets from HVT on Tejas trainer spine....it has too many antennas, do we know what are those and what purpose they serve? Only public info please. Unknown to public it looks like LCA is adding capabilities. Does it have SAT com capability?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Barath wrote:...they have not been able to garner funds to upgrade their Mig29s.

I guess HAL has some scrambling to respond with a convincing proposition that can take on the competition on technical, financial, industrial and diplomatic grounds.
Around 2017, India govt was ostensibly in talks with Malaysia to acquire its 10 operational MiG-29N & 2 MiG-29NU trainers in return for Su-30 spares... That ultimately didn't happen. Are those still mothballed in storage, or got scrapped?

Because HAL's proposal then should absolutely come with an exchange offer discount on LCA in return of those platforms (from 90s, newer than our Mig-29s) that we can later upgrade to UPG standard.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Barath »

@RishiChatterjee - Yes, that was the reference/reason.

The Malaysian Migs were retiredfrom operational service in 2018 and are in Active reserve. Which I think means that they are in storage, (because Malaysia could not maintain them). Also, I *think* it was 16 Migs in total.

In 2019, the press again (not very credibly) reported India striking a deal for the Mig29s, and also that Russia made an offerto take back the Malaysian Migs (and MKMs and sell them new planes. Or to even upgrade them.

Russia may have to be involved in a exchange offer discount, because since it's an arms trade, it would need an end user certificate. And also because Russia would be involved in any Mig29 upgrade. I presume India would inspect the condition in setting the value. If the condition is poor, they could probably be used for spares.

Russia might be a competitor though (Yak 130); they might not bend over backwards to help.

https://asianmilitaryreview.com/2021/06 ... quisition/
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Barath wrote: Russia might be a competitor though (Yak 130); they might not bend over backwards to help.
This part would depend on the clauses of the deal IMO. Once we have acquired the platforms, we could set up an independent UPG upgradation contract with Russia alongside the coming 21.

Anyways, I sincerely hope GOI had the sense to atleast keep this option open... This could work with Bangladesh too, as their 8 Mig-29s are being maintained by Indian subsidy. Setting up a joint exercise & spanking then in BVR using Tejas would be a good way to make them more compliable to the idea :twisted:
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by sajaym »

RishiChatterjee wrote:It's 26th July already... HAL chief claimed to deliver 4 this month!
Looks like they heard you. There's been heavy air activity above my house in Electronic city in Bangalore. Multiple passes by same aircraft. Sounds like someone wants to complete all the pending tests today itself. :mrgreen:
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

How Many FOC Mk1 have been delivered by HAL soo far
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Aditya_V wrote:How Many FOC Mk1 have been delivered by HAL soo far
SP-17 (aka 21) only.
sajaym wrote:
RishiChatterjee wrote:It's 26th July already... HAL chief claimed to deliver 4 this month!
Looks like they heard you. There's been heavy air activity above my house in Electronic city in Bangalore. Multiple passes by same aircraft. Sounds like someone wants to complete all the pending tests today itself. :mrgreen:
Welcome news. I sincerely hope this delay was due to IAF setting up logistics to maintain & operate LCA at forward bases (as per reports of them going to be deployed at Western front).
Last edited by RishiChatterjee on 27 Jul 2021 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ArjunPandit »

^^I dont think that basing the aircraft should affect the delivery schedule..happy to be corrected on this...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

ArjunPandit wrote:^^I dont think that basing the aircraft should affect the delivery schedule..happy to be corrected on this...
AFAIK situation like this has happened before with our ALH, that sat with HAL for months because military wasn't prepared with enough support infra to recieve delivery... this situation is (possibly) similar too, as reports are coming of them to be deployed permanently at forward bases. We have 7 FOC Tejas built but only a single delivered. Highly irregular.

Or they could be waiting for the Astra to be integrated. :idea:
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by fanne »

Wasn't there some speculation that new software upgrades (along with additional hardware) were being done (further speculation from my side - Derby ER, Astra mk1, SDR etc.) were being carried out. Perhaps IAF thought process is - these birds delayed by months but with the above upgrades is better than these birds delivered/operational few month earlier but without these upgrades).
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