Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

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Prem Kumar
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

This is an amazing series by Ananth Krishnan & Dr. Kota! Can't think of anything better to motivate the youth!

Many gems in these interviews. Example: how they tried a Swedish bomb-targeting software (for accurate toss bombing) and how it repeatedly failed. How they learnt that the aerodynamics of both the launch platform and the weapon are *both* important. How they built their own software which scored a bulls-eye on its first attempt!

So many lessons would've been learnt by the people involved. Including how hyped up Western maal is and how we can build better stuff than them with no fuss!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by csaurabh »

Exactly. It is important to understand why a fighter development programme takes 25 years. It is because modern fighter aircraft is incredibly sophisticated. The Tarmak series brings out (to some extent ) a layman understanding of what was going on for 25 years.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Great points - but are the forces ready to listen? With new revelations, it may be too late for additional Rafales. So MK2 becomes even more important in my opinion.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

For folks who are unhappy with Tejas Mk1A development, please see this.

FTB = Flying Test Bed. So one more LSP will join the one already being outfitted.

https://twitter.com/defensebios/status/ ... 15591?s=20 ---> HAL to add second Tejas Mk1A FTB to speed up development.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 44321?s=20 --->

Italy is ready to sell Skyward IRST pods for Tejas Mk1A to India if ban on Leonardo is lifted:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... GXG1Q&s=19
#Update : Manufacturing of two LCA trainer Aircraft has started. That is after 36 airfarmes (18 IOC & 18 FOC)
Via : @tarmakmedia
Not sure about authenticity, but he is mentioning source as Ananthakrishnan...
If the news is true, it means HAL is exceeding expectations...
-
Also, I think he meant "after 32 airframes (16 IOC & 16 FOC)"
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

IAF Tejas as well as Surya Kiran and Sarang display teams will participate in Dubai Air Show.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... MRdqw&s=19

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/145 ... Jiyag&s=19
Sweet! 3 Tejas fighters from the @IAF_MCC's 18 Squadron 'Flying Bullets' land in Dubai. They'll be flying displays at the #DubaiAirShow.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

LakshmanPST wrote: https://twitter.com/livefist/status/145 ... Jiyag&s=19
Sweet! 3 Tejas fighters from the @IAF_MCC's 18 Squadron 'Flying Bullets' land in Dubai. They'll be flying displays at the #DubaiAirShow.
Wow!! Display by FOC jets.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

ashishvikas wrote:IAF Tejas as well as Surya Kiran and Sarang display teams will participate in Dubai Air Show.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... MRdqw&s=19

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list
Why does whenever Tejas participates, JF-17 pulls out?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Tail Nos. LA5020 and LA5022 (Old designations SP24 and SP26) can be seen...
Wonder what the 3rd tail number is...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Does one of the three jets not have the in flight refuelling probe? Its radome is also of a darker grey. Might be 1 IOC and 2 FOC jets.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Does one of the three jets not have the in flight refuelling probe? Its radome is also of a darker grey. Might be 1 IOC and 2 FOC jets.
But they clearly mentioned that the jets are from No. 18 squadron... May be they were wrong...
Or is IAF planning to use mix of IOC and FOC jets in both No. 45 and No. 18 squadrons...?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Cyrano »

It means, even with if no IFR probe, IOC Tejas could still ferry itself (presumably with drop tanks) from Sulur to Dubai - 2800 kms or even with a stop at Goa, that would be 2250 Km non-stop. Nice !
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

LakshmanPST wrote:https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... GXG1Q&s=19
#Update : Manufacturing of two LCA trainer Aircraft has started. That is after 36 airfarmes (18 IOC & 18 FOC)
Via : @tarmakmedia
Not sure about authenticity, but he is mentioning source as Ananthakrishnan...
If the news is true, it means HAL is exceeding expectations...
-
Also, I think he meant "after 32 airframes (16 IOC & 16 FOC)"
I am assuming this is based on visual observation in one of the Hamara Tejas videos..
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/1458351055415111686

"Three FOC LCA Tejas from 18 Sqn AF landed at Dubai to take part in Dubai Air Show-2021."

Image

-Ankit
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Rakesh wrote:For folks who are unhappy with Tejas Mk1A development, please see this.

FTB = Flying Test Bed. So one more LSP will join the one already being outfitted.

https://twitter.com/defensebios/status/ ... 15591?s=20 ---> HAL to add second Tejas Mk1A FTB to speed up development.
But is even one FTB in air now?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

They have to test and validate everything before the first flight occurs? Or should we just ignore all that and let if fly anyway?

Having more than one FTB will allow a greater sortie rate versus just one aircraft.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:For folks who are unhappy with Tejas Mk1A development, please see this.

FTB = Flying Test Bed. So one more LSP will join the one already being outfitted.

https://twitter.com/defensebios/status/ ... 15591?s=20 ---> HAL to add second Tejas Mk1A FTB to speed up development.
But is even one FTB in air now?
Boss this trolling, an aircraft to be produced and test bed needs to go to an airshow.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by rajsunder »

Ankit Desai wrote: https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/1458351055415111686

"Three FOC LCA Tejas from 18 Sqn AF landed at Dubai to take part in Dubai Air Show-2021."[/img]

-Ankit
Is the refueling probe removable or retractable? because i do not see one on the middle LCA.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

IFR probe is removable.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Rakesh wrote:They have to test and validate everything before the first flight occurs? Or should we just ignore all that and let if fly anyway?

Having more than one FTB will allow a greater sortie rate versus just one aircraft.
Arey Admiral mullah,
This was a genuine doubt. Wasn't sure if any prototypes or test beds were flying at all so thought I'd ask the hawk-eyed followers of the program here.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Hamara Tejas | Episode-5 | Top class core avionics from ADA added might to Tejas

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

So what is the status of the LSP aircraft? What are they being used for - 2 seem to be FTBs for MK1A. What about the others?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

The FTBs are from the SPs. The LSPs are used for testing of the modules.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

http://idrw.org/with-83-orders-in-the-k ... ore-267773

LIFT: HAL and IAF have agreed to Jointly develop Tejas lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) variant based on the Tejas Trainer airframe for which it has got in-principal approval for the development of the Tejas LIFT from IAF and also procurement projection of 30-40 jets from the IAF. While HAL plans to demonstrate Tejas LIFT Flying Test Bed by 2024-25 using one of the Trainer aircraft that could be followed with user trials and orders.

NLCA: HAL is trying also to get Navy onboard the program as well. HAL is in talks with the Indian Navy to seal a deal for 8 LCA-Navy aircraft that could be used to train pilots for deck-based operations and also for combat roles even though the Navy has rejected plans to procure them in large numbers but has shown interest in smaller numbers while it's backing TEDBF Project.

Tejas-Max: HAL has tied up with Bangalore based startup, NewSpace Research and Technologies (NRT) for the development of Loyal Wingman Program called CATS Warrior, where HAL plans to use Tejas Trainer aircraft has Max (Mothership) to guide the Loyal Wingman Program with a customized second cockpit for the Remote Pilot to operate them. HAL sees potential orders for at least 12-18 Tejas-Max aircraft once the program hits production.

TejEx: To lure countries looking for a low-cost option, HAL also has plans to develop a low-cost aircraft called Tejas Ex(port) that will be customized to further reduce costs by removing components that are not required or requested by the potential operator. HAL planning to set up logistic bases in four countries to push exports.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by YashG »

Tejas max is mk1 or mk1a? Ideally should be mk1a - guiding drones will need endurance. Seems like its mk1.

Noobpooch - Can logistics base double up as forward bases?
As a *wild idea* we sell astra equipped tejas-ex to armenia and a logistics base that doubles up as foothold in that region.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

YashG wrote:Tejas max is mk1 or mk1a? Ideally should be mk1a - guiding drones will need endurance. Seems like its mk1.

Noobpooch - Can logistics base double up as forward bases?
As a *wild idea* we sell astra equipped tejas-ex to armenia and a logistics base that doubles up as foothold in that region.

Twin seater.. The WSO to operate the CATS.

Standard-wise definitely Mark1A, maybe better.
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Or they could use Super-30s.. To be seen.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

CATS warrior, WSO guiding the wingman, smart weapons etc will require an incredible amount of data fusion, datalinks & an advanced display for the WSO.

The fact that we are even able to dream these things is because we have the Tejas, which we can customize & use as a test-bed to our heart's content! Imagine asking the French to help us customize the Rafale for CATS - they'll charge us the price of Rafale itself.

A lot of this tech will make it into Tejas MK2 and AMCA. One can see why, when the MK2 rolls out, it will be more advanced than the Rafale in many aspects.

The value of the Tejas ecosystem will become 10X what it is now, as the decades go by.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Prem Kumar wrote:CATS warrior, WSO guiding the wingman, smart weapons etc will require an incredible amount of data fusion, datalinks & an advanced display for the WSO.

The fact that we are even able to dream these things is because we have the Tejas, which we can customize & use as a test-bed to our heart's content! Imagine asking the French to help us customize the Rafale for CATS - they'll charge us the price of Rafale itself.

A lot of this tech will make it into Tejas MK2 and AMCA. One can see why, when the MK2 rolls out, it will be more advanced than the Rafale in many aspects.

The value of the Tejas ecosystem will become 10X what it is now, as the decades go by.
Xposting from DFI:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by titash »

Indranil wrote:The FTBs are from the SPs. The LSPs are used for testing of the modules.
Couple of questions for Tejas Garus here;

1) Is the Tejas 2-seat conversion trainer any different from the proposed Tejas LIFT version? something doesn't quite add up here. If the purpose of the Tejas conversion trainer (4 + 4 + 10 = 18 ordered) is simply to teach the trainee pilots how to fly a Tejas, and not how to use radar/missiles...then why not simply cancel the order and upgrade all of them to Tejas LIFT?

2) Are the 4 + 4 + 10 conversion trainers expected to be fully combat capable? i.e. do they have a fully functional radar and BVR capability? If they are fully combat capable...are these birds going to be held in a central pool of sorts, or farmed out to individual squadron as needed? Basically how many combat capable birds can a squadron be expected to bring to a fight?

3) If there are 2 or more Mk1 FoC SPs dedicated to Mk1a conversion, then Manish Tolani Sir's Flying Bullets will never reach full squadron strength - I assume, by design. Any idea why this route was chosen?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

titash wrote: Is the Tejas 2-seat conversion trainer any different from the proposed Tejas LIFT version? something doesn't quite add up here. If the purpose of the Tejas conversion trainer (4 + 4 + 10 = 18 ordered) is simply to teach the trainee pilots how to fly a Tejas, and not how to use radar/missiles...then why not simply cancel the order and upgrade all of them to Tejas LIFT?

Are the 4 + 4 + 10 conversion trainers expected to be fully combat capable? i.e. do they have a fully functional radar and BVR capability? If they are fully combat capable...are these birds going to be held in a central pool of sorts, or farmed out to individual squadron as needed? Basically how many combat capable birds can a squadron be expected to bring to a fight?
Given how much they're obsessed over armed Hawk-I, one could guess its to take over as general Advance Jet Trainer that'll double as light attack aircraft... LIFT prototype is to come only in 2024, they need LCA Tejas trainers now.

While these are supposed to be combat capable, it was mentioned that they are FOC standard. No AESA, possibly no EW.
Last edited by RishiChatterjee on 13 Nov 2021 10:55, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by KSingh »

RishiChatterjee wrote:http://idrw.org/with-83-orders-in-the-k ... ore-267773

LIFT: HAL and IAF have agreed to Jointly develop Tejas lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) variant based on the Tejas Trainer airframe for which it has got in-principal approval for the development of the Tejas LIFT from IAF and also procurement projection of 30-40 jets from the IAF. While HAL plans to demonstrate Tejas LIFT Flying Test Bed by 2024-25 using one of the Trainer aircraft that could be followed with user trials and orders.

NLCA: HAL is trying also to get Navy onboard the program as well. HAL is in talks with the Indian Navy to seal a deal for 8 LCA-Navy aircraft that could be used to train pilots for deck-based operations and also for combat roles even though the Navy has rejected plans to procure them in large numbers but has shown interest in smaller numbers while it's backing TEDBF Project.

Tejas-Max: HAL has tied up with Bangalore based startup, NewSpace Research and Technologies (NRT) for the development of Loyal Wingman Program called CATS Warrior, where HAL plans to use Tejas Trainer aircraft has Max (Mothership) to guide the Loyal Wingman Program with a customized second cockpit for the Remote Pilot to operate them. HAL sees potential orders for at least 12-18 Tejas-Max aircraft once the program hits production.

TejEx: To lure countries looking for a low-cost option, HAL also has plans to develop a low-cost aircraft called Tejas Ex(port) that will be customized to further reduce costs by removing components that are not required or requested by the potential operator. HAL planning to set up logistic bases in four countries to push exports.
Good summary, as expected once the design is mature there's plenty of options available, for the love of god GoI see sense and hammer this home to the services. ADA/HAL are right- there should be no more imported fighters, going forward Indian fighters should be inducted only. Options are endless.


The IAF agreeing (in principle) to a LIFT project based on LCA (SPORT?) is an interesting development and not something that has been publicised before.

I just wonder how this fits into the IAF’s already relatively bloated 4 stage training regimen

BTA-IJT-AJT-OCU


(I say bloated because many other airforces have long back moved to 3 stage training). I suppose they could remove IJT and have LIFT after AJT? It’s not like they are overly eager to get the Sitara now and the Kiran is long since due to be retired.

the navy absolutely should induct the NLCA for LIFT/carrier qualification role merely to save the lives of their 29KUBs that are already depleting and have to limp until TEDBF


+ not the appropriate thread but have they confirmed if there will be a 2 seat TEDBF?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by KSingh »

Indranil wrote:The FTBs are from the SPs. The LSPs are used for testing of the modules.
So this is HAL using some fo the IAF's undelivered FOCs as FTBs? I'm assuming the IAF is happy with this arrangement? What will happen after the FTB stage, will these MK.1 FOCs be reverted to their original spec?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by VinodTK »



#HamaraTejas at Dubai Air Show. #IAF short video on preps. #Tejas team lead by Gp Capt Tolani
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Varun55484761/statu ... 19362?s=20 ---> LCA MK1A Digital Map Generator. Read the poster for details.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Tejas at Dubai, the narraction is cheesy enough to make your arteries clog & the flight pattern is exactly same as what they did at Srilanka.. but better flying & footage this time. The turns were quicker & crisper.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Tejas does many loops includes rolls during Loops, something which the JF-17 does not complete in any airshow. See 4:14 to 4:36 vetical loop and horizontal circle is completed in about 19secs from 4:39 to 4:58
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Nice - seems that the pilot is confident of his machine and that the machine responds gracefully!! Neighbor's envy, Owner's pride!!
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