Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

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Maria
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Maria »

jamwal wrote:Is small size of Tejas a limiting factor in it's aerodynamic performance? It still has not been cleared for 9G AFAIK. It also seems like canards can't be fitted unless length is increased due to lack of space for instruments required. A lot of design changes like the lengthening of fuselage and addition of canards in Mk-II perhaps are a way of solving these limitations.
Eta maskirova, menya drugye.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

jamwal wrote:Is small size of Tejas a limiting factor in it's aerodynamic performance? It still has not been cleared for 9G AFAIK. It also seems like canards can't be fitted unless length is increased due to lack of space for instruments required. A lot of design changes like the lengthening of fuselage and addition of canards in Mk-II perhaps are a way of solving these limitations.
Jamwal ji,

Size does not matter. Most probably the limitation is structural. They designed and finalized the structures with a certain empty weight in mind. Actual empty weight was higher. Can’t go back and change structures and do all the testing again. So limited the envelop. 8Gs is plenty. LSPs already flown to 8.5Gs.

Why do you want to add a canard on Mk1/Mk1A? I dream of an optimized Mk1B for export purposes.

1. Thanks to the work on Mk2, DRDO knows how to make a more compact antenna. ADA also knows how to move this antenna forward (closer to the radome). Consequently they can make the radome more slender and add space for IRST. This will also reduce drag.
2. Add the 0.5 mtrs behind the canopy and add all the aerodynamic improvements that are already known. It will give volume for more internal fuel.
3. Add the intake refinements from Mk2 to Mk1B. Or go for DSI.
4. Remove the gun and add a hardpoint there instead. Podded centerline gun can be added when it is required.

Such an optimized Mk1B will sell well into the 2030s.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Question is - when will these aircraft start flying - we've been discussing changes for 3-5 years(??). All these improvements have a shelf life. Indian MIC is already lagging behind and with biases and motivations, it is being pushed further back. Something needs to change. The TDs and the LSP aircraft could have been used to fly MK1A hardware.

There is no visible movement on deliveries too. Is the king dead?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

Many things related to Mk1A are already in testing. Rest should come through official sources.

Mk1B is my imagination
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by nachiket »

Indranil, that Mk1B seems like a Mk2 without the canards. Why not just export the Mk2 instead, with downgraded avionics perhaps? I doubt ADA has the bandwidth for an export-only project, nor HAL for manufacturing it.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by rajsunder »

nachiket wrote:Indranil, that Mk1B seems like a Mk2 without the canards. Why not just export the Mk2 instead, with downgraded avionics perhaps? I doubt ADA has the bandwidth for an export-only project, nor HAL for manufacturing it.
The numbers being quoted for the number of MK2 we need necessitates at least one or two assembly lines operated by a private company apart from HAL assembly line. They will find a way to produce more and we can export the produce of that lines.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefencePROPalam/sta ... 03525?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Vikram Singh, VSM took over as Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, South Western Air Command at Gandhinagar today. On arrival, the Air Marshal placed a wreath at the War Memorial and was presented with a Guard of Honour at HQ SWAC, Gandhinagar.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 50752?s=20 ---> Air Marshal Vikram Singh was the first to take the LCA supersonic and at one point held the maximum flights on type. And as @vayusena points out, has a great passion for aviation history, reflected in the amazing transformation of the Indian Air Force museum and his book 'Spitfires in the Sun'.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by JayS »

jamwal wrote:I've only read a few books and articles and trying to see if it makes sense wrt to Mk-II and performance characteristics of Mk-1. Things like engine nozzle size and length affect drag. And a few of things are being modified for Mk-II. So just wondering what could be the limiting factors for Mk-1.
Length is a limiting factor in case of LCA Mk1. Basically you need certain minimum length for given volume to have reasonably low wave drag. Look for Sears Haack Bodies on Google. Every body can be thought of in terms of an equivalent body of rotation same volume distribution axially. This is what is basically the area ruling. Smoother the distribution, lesser is the wave drag. Sears Haack body is an ideal shape for given volume for optimum drag. But there is another aspect to this too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears%E2%80%93Haack_body

There is Drag formula on this page. Notice how its proportional to 4th order of Radius but inversely proportional to Square of Length. So for given Volume, smaller length would result in larger max radius. The drag consequently will rise with both increased radius and decreased length.

So a bit longer length would definitely help. Because that allows not only a better area ruling but also makes it effectively more slender.

But this should not be affecting the G-rating. It would affect drag and thereby the transonic acceleration, range, etc.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by YashG »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8269686793
Delhi Defence Review
@delhidefence
Our Founder @SJha1618
says that the Tejas Mk1 FOC is now comparable in air to air to combat with late model F-16s. With the integration of I Derby ER & Python V, the Air Force seems increasingly confident of this platform's performance in air superiority missions.
That means tejas FOC == F16 Block 70.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by chetak »

YashG wrote:https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8269686793
That means tejas FOC == F16 Block 70.
who is this Saurav Jha, someone with a complementary pen writing verbose fantasies or some professionally qualified test/fighter pilot, design engineer with some years of hard won experience, and of acknowledged repute, with an undisputed and verified street cred

If he is not, then, at the end of the day, it's merely a wishlist or a pious hope driven by a rozi roti and access based livelihood theme
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by jamwal »

JayS wrote:....
Thanks for the details.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

SJha quoted IAF's increasing confidence in FOC that he feels, not his own assessment.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

One halwai and one former Governor ka juta ghisne wallah (Eh-D-Cee) peddle lies about the Tejas. These are duly amplified by Pakistani and Chicom boiler rooms on twitter. For the record, however:
1. Tejas has been flown faster than Mach 1.6
2. It has been tested to even 8.5G

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 0quDg&s=19


And one more thing:
Discussions for Tejas export to three countries are in advanced stages. One export success in particular is likely very soon.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... OpKIg&s=19
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

The pukees and Chicom lose on the battlefield and then try to win by spinning fairy tales online! I would trust SJha anyday!!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by kit »

ashishvikas wrote: And one more thing:
Discussions for Tejas export to three countries are in advanced stages. One export success in particular is likely very soon.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... OpKIg&s=19
Once exported , any local maal will have twice the flavour for the forces !!
:mrgreen:
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Nube question regarding the LCA picture posted in the lca pictures thread.

1) The intake cover appears to be an ad-hoc cloth cover, and not the FOD cover for used for other types of plane's. Why that is so?

2) the LDP also has a similar cloth arrangement, what is the technical requirement for doing that?

3) what is the requirement to cover the in-flight refueling probe with cloth?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

I guess the idea of these covers is to prevent dust entering while the aircraft are idle for long time perhaps a flexible cover is easier to install and remove
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Don't know about the quality of the cloth but based on my previous AI experience, the covers are of a similar, if not the same, type used by other aircraft types.

The LDP's sensors are sensitive to direct sunlight, much like any imaging sensor is, plus the viewfinder would get scratched if not covered when stationary cleaning then dust and dirt accumulating on it and possible intrusion of insects and stuff. Similarly for the pitot tubes, IFR proved etc.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

basant wrote:SJha quoted IAF's increasing confidence in FOC that he feels, not his own assessment.
Tejas was both showstarter & the showstopper on this AF day, Rafale & Su-30 in sideroles... made some single-pass maneuvers while tejas did a full aerial display (from 1:18:00).


Note 3 droptanks on the Tejas...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 14787?s=20 ---> Also, let us be clear, even the second Tejas squadron with FOC units is now fully operational. It is under strength, but operational. A decent number of Tejas MK1 units are now operational with the Indian Air Force.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 16194?s=20 ---> There are many more than just 2 FOC Tejas units operational now with No.18 Squadron. Like I said, intense propaganda is being done by some quarters against the Tejas.

https://twitter.com/BappiChainz/status/ ... 19057?s=20 ---> Are there any anecdotes of pilot experiences so far? Without divulging anything important - would love to hear more details on what they have learned in general/expectations, etc.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 80129?s=20 ---> DDR will bring to you exactly this sort of stuff soon.

https://twitter.com/Defence_Squad_/stat ... 18978?s=20 --->

Image
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote:
https://twitter.com/BappiChainz/status/ ... 19057?s=20 ---> Are there any anecdotes of pilot experiences so far? Without divulging anything important - would love to hear more details on what they have learned in general/expectations, etc.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 80129?s=20 ---> DDR will bring to you exactly this sort of stuff soon.

https://twitter.com/Defence_Squad_/stat ... 18978?s=20 --->
I have no doubts that pilots are going to love this bird esp. considering what it is replacing. Problem is not the quality or even performance of the Tejas, even the mk1, but the fact that it uses engines that seem to be dangerously prone to the whims of an external power.
So long as India intends to chart a more or less independent foreign policy, this danger remains. Unless the US shows that it is genuinely friendly by finding exceptions for idiotic laws like the Caatsa, which clearly is a Big obstacle on the way of really good relations.
Absolutely gorgeous shots of the Tejas btw.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 14787?s=20 ---> Also, let us be clear, even the second Tejas squadron with FOC units is now fully operational. It is under strength, but operational. A decent number of Tejas MK1 units are now operational with the Indian Air Force.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 16194?s=20 ---> There are many more than just 2 FOC Tejas units operational now with No.18 Squadron. Like I said, intense propaganda is being done by some quarters against the Tejas.
I take it that deliveries are progressing unannounced then! Great if that is the case.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vayutuvan »

chetak wrote:
YashG wrote:https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8269686793
That means tejas FOC == F16 Block 70.
who is this Saurav Jha, someone with a complementary pen writing verbose fantasies or some professionally qualified test/fighter pilot, design engineer with some years of hard won experience, and of acknowledged repute, with an undisputed and verified street cred

If he is not, then, at the end of the day, it's merely a wishlist or a pious hope driven by a rozi roti and access based livelihood theme
S Jha was a BRF member but not a "qualified test/fighter pilot, design engineer with some years of hard won experience, and of acknowledged repute, with an undisputed and verified street cred". He had been writing for some time though. Maybe 10 years or more.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Can't embed timestamp... Please just follow the link.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QFAGQvukS4&t=7385s
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by RishiChatterjee »

X-posting from DFI...

Tejas hourly operating cost 2nd lowest at $4000 which is above $2700-3700 of Mirage-2000, probably Mk1A operating cost will be lower . Rafale highest at $16000... Followed by Su-30MKI at $10000.
http://www.defencexp.com/explained-per- ... -jets/amp/

F-35 per hour operating cost is down to $28500 now... F-16 $8000.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccart ... aphic/amp/
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by brar_w »

RishiChatterjee wrote:X-posting from DFI...

Tejas hourly operating cost 2nd lowest at $4000 which is above $2700-3700 of Mirage-2000, probably Mk1A operating cost will be lower . Rafale highest at $16000... Followed by Su-30MKI at $10000.
http://www.defencexp.com/explained-per- ... -jets/amp/

F-35 per hour operating cost is down to $28500 now... F-16 $8000.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccart ... aphic/amp/
You cannot compare operating cost across operators because of a huge difference on how they are reported. What is included in each? For example, the USAF's operating cost is all of the system O&S cost divided by the total hours flown. The numerator includes all unit, and non-unit (PM support) level manpower cost associated with that enterprise (All F-35 fleet, trainer simulators, software development and sustainment, and civilian pay) across all the permanent and forward based deployments. There is a substantial fixed cost that has military and civilian pay elements (not tied into operating the a/c in the traditional sense but more for sustaining the program).

If you are looking at just the operating cost i.e. the bare bone cost of fuel, software support, spares, etc etc then its is dramatically lower. Something like $17K for USAF's F-35A.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by sajaym »

Hello, did anyone catch the sonic boom over Electronic City Bangalore? A couple of seconds after the boom, there was the roar of a jet engine also. So that's how I'm guessing that it was a sonic boom.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

This should not be a news in any wat shape or form.

It should be routine occurance.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/14 ... 73250?s=20 ---> Shri Ramesh V Ji, a Senior Master Technician with HAL's Aircraft Division in Bangalore gives the first clap for the #HamaraTejas™ mega series on India's Light Combat Aircraft #Tejas set to fly out of the hangars of @tarmakmedia tomorrow. The show is co-anchored by #GuruKota.

Image
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by fanne »

per the report below 7 FOC LCA already delivered 8 ready and next 8 to be delivered before Q1 2022

https://youtu.be/HmAGa8yuhEo?t=133
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/writetake/status/14 ... 73250?s=20 ---> Shri Ramesh V Ji, a Senior Master Technician with HAL's Aircraft Division in Bangalore gives the first clap for the #HamaraTejas™ mega series on India's Light Combat Aircraft #Tejas set to fly out of the hangars of @tarmakmedia tomorrow. The show is co-anchored by #GuruKota.
That is SP-22 (New designation)... 6th FOC is still in HAL...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Just look at the build quality of SP-22 in the video.

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/14 ... 25825?s=20 ---> Namaste! Here comes the first promo of our dream series #HamaraTejas. The first episode will be premiered today on TMH YT Channel at 9 pm IST. Promo-1. We captured rare moments of Dr Kota Harinarayana talking to his pet, Tejas.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by fanne »

Hamara Tejas | Episode-01

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Amazing interview in Episode 1. Kota Sir is justifiably excited. Kudos to him and his team.

Here is Episode 2....

Hamara Tejas | Episode-02

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by nachiket »

Absolutely loved the interview. Kota sir is a delight to listen to.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Awesome, I want to be a young engineer and join Tejas & future aerospace programs in Bharat after watching this.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by csaurabh »

https://www.drdo.gov.in/monograph/radia ... tejas-saga

Extremely good book, highly recommend. You can buy DRDO monographs from OM publications online.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Hamara Tejas series takes off on Oct 14 with Dr Kota Harinarayana in cockpit | Thursdays with Tejas

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vicky »

LCA has finally come of age. Passed the Agnipariksha. 14 Aircraft of possibly 45 Sqn in a single formation flight.
Elephant walk but in air.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1449033860973400070

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1449038876966744067



Demonstrates availability and maintainability. Hoped for 16 though but 14 is good enough. The other 2 are probably in Bengaluru, 1 is for sure.
Not sure but could be a final test before the sqn moves out of sulur. I am hoping they will replace the 21s in the valley.

Edit: Livefist reporting that they are SP-01, 03, 05, 07, 08, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 of IOC & SP-21, 22, 23, 24 of FOC . Mix of IOC and FOC.

Edit: the horse's mouth has chimed in https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1449045265566994437 . A real elephant walk.

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Last edited by Vicky on 15 Oct 2021 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Fantastic shots and great PR move!
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