Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

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SSridhar
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Ankit Desai wrote:
sanjayc wrote:One in two Tejas fighters to have Desi radar
Great news. Waiting for a long time.

Critical technologies are being realized. Prasad's interviews show the enormous confidence of the designers. We have crossed the inflection point in aeronautics. Great feeling.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Excellent news , having Uttam on Tejas, 21st MK-1A, so even the 10 trainers are going to have EL 20252 AESA as per the article,

SO HAL orderbook to deliver right now would be



1) Tejas MK1 FOC- 13 single seaters +8 Trainers with EL 2032 radar

2) MK1A 10 Trainers + 11 single seaters with EL 20252 radar

3) 62 Single seater MK1A with Uttam radar.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Phenomenal news! They must've gotten over the A2G and A2S hurdles in the executive jet, to have such confidence! Great to see that the A2A mode is operating better than they expected

Even as far as 3 years back, Uttam had the capability to detect a 2 sq.m target at 150 Km. It must be doing better than that now, which is mighty impressive. It means that it can even guide Astra-Mk2 at its max range
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Nice progression of indigenization in critical AESA tech

1) Phalcon radar --> Netra
2) Green Pine --> LRTR
3) ELTA 2084 --> Arudhra
4) ELTA 2052 --> Uttam
5) MFSTAR --> ??

ELTA ain't gonna be too happy
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

Prem Kumar wrote:Phenomenal news! They must've gotten over the A2G and A2S hurdles in the executive jet, to have such confidence! Great to see that the A2A mode is operating better than they expected

Even as far as 3 years back, Uttam had the capability to detect a 2 sq.m target at 150 Km. It must be doing better than that now, which is mighty impressive. It means that it can even guide Astra-Mk2 at its max range
150 km should be better than fine for Astra Mk2 as far as useful Pk is considered. :)
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by mody »

Prem Kumar wrote:Phenomenal news! They must've gotten over the A2G and A2S hurdles in the executive jet, to have such confidence! Great to see that the A2A mode is operating better than they expected

Even as far as 3 years back, Uttam had the capability to detect a 2 sq.m target at 150 Km. It must be doing better than that now, which is mighty impressive. It means that it can even guide Astra-Mk2 at its max range
The A2G mode on the executive jet has already shown good results. The problems arose, when the same was tried on the Tejas. The speed and the maneuverability of fighter jets is much higher and the software needed to be changed to account for this. The A2A mode seems to have been fully developed and debugged on the 2 LSP aircrafts. The report states that they might be ready to offer the radar for user evaluation for the A2A mode, shortly. There were some reports that DRDO is targeting mid 2021 to complete the A2G mode as well.
The results of the A2A mode, seem to be on par with the Elat 2052, which is huge. The earlier reports had mentioned that they were better then the existing 2032 based hybrid MMR. Even if the radar is upto 90% as effective as the Elta 2052, we should opt for the Uttam only.

Maybe someone like @Dileep will have a better idea about the exact status and the results that have been obtained so far.

I have said this before and will say it again, having almost a completely indigenous weapons suite and indigenous Radar and avionics suite for the Tejas will have a bigger impact for the IAF then any import can ever have. Will also enhance the export potential of the Tejas.
The next target after the Uttam should be the EW suite. Only the Israeli Dash Helmet is the major imported component of the avionics suite.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

Karan M wrote:
sanjayc wrote:One in two Tejas fighters to have Desi radar

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst
Incredible stuff. Matches Prasad's report earlier.

21st Tejas onwards to have Uttam, MOU with HAL already signed.
Karan, is the Terrain Avoidance mode something akin to what the RBE2 has on the Rafale to allow low level nap of the earth flying? If so, it'll be absolutely remarkable and Tejas fighters with the Uttam may be able to do so in the future?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

SSridhar wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote:
Great news. Waiting for a long time.

Critical technologies are being realized. Prasad's interviews show the enormous confidence of the designers. We have crossed the inflection point in aeronautics. Great feeling.
Truly amazing feeling to see cutting edge technologies maturing this way. We truly have crossed the inflection point. And with a Govt. at the center that is gung-ho on exports, Atmanirbhar programs and incubating MSMEs and startups, it seems like we are on the verge of something big!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by naird »

What an amazing news ! Will greatly help in driving down costs as well as help us in scaling up the weapon integration challenges. So the way i understand is that nap of the earth flying can be broken down into parts
1. Radar - Basically tries to figure the terrain and weather. It provides required inputs to machine.
2. Software / FBW - System takes the inputs from radar , massages/translates it and passes it onto FBW/Display software. FBW/Display software accordingly adjusts the flight controls , presents the required display of the terrain and other such aspects.

If we take the above 2 parts into account then work on part(2) must have already started. Theoretically part1 should be plug and play .i.e replace 2052 with Uttam.

Perhaps this is the reason of confidence.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Does terrain following + avoidance radar also imply a modified FBW to automatically take over controls? I'd assume that would significantly increase the complexity of the FBW software, which is more concerned about the stability of the aircraft than collision avoidance

If #2 from above post is also available, it can be adopted into LCH & even UAVs for nap of the earth flying.

Do the Jags have this ability with their 2052 radars?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Vivek K »

What’s the latest about MK1 FOC deliveries?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 17604?s=20 ---> Possible future LCA Mk-1 upgrade would include a new Lead-in fighter trainer (LIFT) called LIFT-MAX for Airforce and Navy.

Image
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

What a beautiful photo. Truly gorgeous. You can see it full size, if you drag & drop photo into new window.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/13641 ... 43971?s=20 ---> Winged Men

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

WOW! 83 Mk1As are causing a lot of takleef.

How Did India Manage to Build an Advanced Fighter Jet Like the Tejas?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/24/in ... rty-china/
24 Feb 2021
How has a relatively poor country like India that is more famous for call centers than for precision manufacturing managed such a dramatic technological leap? :rotfl:
The biggest-ticket foreign components are the plane’s General Electric F404 jet engine and Israel Aerospace Industries’ radar and electronic warfare systems. Take away these key components, and all you have is an empty airframe.
The Tejas Mark 1A, which has just entered mass production, is being offered for export at a standard price of approximately $43 million per aircraft, much less than the price of a new F-16, the U.S. export standard.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by jamwal »

These reports were incorrect, however, since they fallaciously compared the basic cost of an Indian-produced Su-30 MKI with the procurement cost per unit of all 83 sanctioned Tejas aircraft, with the latter having been obtained by simply dividing the total CCS outlay by 83. Such ludicrous apples to oranges comparisons apart, the actual basic cost of a Tejas Mk1A, arrived at after stripping away various ancillary allocations included in the CCS approval, is significantly lower than that of not just any medium or heavy fourth-generation fighter, but it is also lower than that of any comparable light fighter. In fact, given the advanced features of the Tejas Mk1A, the aircraft is the most cost-competitive multirole capability the IAF could acquire today.
:lol:
basic per unit cost of the Mk1A will be Rs 309 crore over the course of production, while that of the Mk1 trainer version would be around Rs 280 crore.
Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/specials/s ... 45482.html

Good article by Sourav Jha
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

LCA Tejas to take part in #SriLanka Air Show (3-5th March)

https://twitter.com/neeraj_rajput/statu ... 17800?s=20

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ramana »

Moved.

Let us stick to the topic.

Thanks, r
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

From Vayu Aerospace's report during Aero India. This was from an interview with HAL CMD R Madhavan

Vayu : Series production of the Tejas LCA Mk.I (FOC) commenced last year with the first such aircraft handed over to the Air Force on 27 May 2020. When would the balance aircraft of this series be handed over?

CMD: We have orders for delivering 16 FOC block fighters to the IAF, out of which, first FOC LCA aircraft has joined 18 Squadron of the IAF in May 2020. Flight testing has started for two more aircraft and another six aircraft are in the advanced stages of system integration and testing. The structural assembly manufacturing is underway for the remaining seven aircraft from the FOC batch. We are steering to conclude FOC fighter production by 2022.
So 2 more Tejas Mk1 FOC fighters must have been handed over to No.18 Squadron after the test flights and 2 Customer Acceptance Flights. Should hopefully see more FOC fighters roll out and have their first flights before March 31, 2021.

Indranil, could you possibly provide an update on how many out of the 6 that are in advanced stages of system integration and testing will be finished before March 31st? Remaining 8 would then be left to be delivered by March 31, 2022.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Does delivery of all FOC fighters by 2022 include the 8 trainers?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

No fighters are considered separately. This timeline is only for the single seat fighters.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by sajaym »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9boanIKh6g

Very impressive display by LCA in Sri Lanka - 12:20 to 18:00. Just posting a small link since there will be better videos later on. But performance-wise, this is as good a marketing pitch as any other!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

First flight of SP 20 in about a week's time. Delivery of 18,19,20 expected in 2-4weeks.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

sajaym wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9boanIKh6g

Very impressive display by LCA in Sri Lanka - 12:20 to 18:00. Just posting a small link since there will be better videos later on. But performance-wise, this is as good a marketing pitch as any other!
+100

Superb flying skills, great aircraft & the commentator made it come alive so well!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

Indranil wrote:First flight of SP 20 in about a week's time. Delivery of 18,19,20 expected in 2-4weeks.
So that's 4 a/c this financial year. Hope the pace picks up.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indranil wrote:First flight of SP 20 in about a week's time. Delivery of 18,19,20 expected in 2-4weeks.
Great news. You would not happen to know on which production line these are coming out of would you?

Need to update page 1.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

I don't know. I am being told that HAL can go to 16 per annum easily and pretty soon if it has orders. I am hoping some import orders come in, because I have given up hope on MoD.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Indranil »

basant wrote:
Indranil wrote:First flight of SP 20 in about a week's time. Delivery of 18,19,20 expected in 2-4weeks.
So that's 4 a/c this financial year. Hope the pace picks up.
What they were licking during this slowdown is that once the aircraft has flown, it will clear acceptance trials within a fixed amount of time. And once it clears acceptance trials, it leaves HAL for good. So no more of this SPxx is "delivered", but one can see it in HAL hangars often.

And that's what I mean by they are cutting the umbilical cords. Delivered means delivered from here on.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by srai »

Prem Kumar wrote:
sajaym wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9boanIKh6g

Very impressive display by LCA in Sri Lanka - 12:20 to 18:00. Just posting a small link since there will be better videos later on. But performance-wise, this is as good a marketing pitch as any other!
+100

Superb flying skills, great aircraft & the commentator made it come alive so well!
@13:17 “Red-eye turn” -3.5G turn - banking right but turning left ... the other way around

That maneuver would be pretty effective in fooling the opposition pilot in a dog fight I would think!
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Rakesh wrote: Great news. You would not happen to know on which production line these are coming out of would you?

Need to update page 1.
As per first few minutes of this video---> https://youtu.be/CZ_AnKNLeEU
Old Aircraft designations SP23, SP25, SP27, SP29, SP34 and SP35 are/will be from Aircraft division (New designations 19, 21, 23, 25, 30 and 31)...
SP21, SP22, SP24, SP26, SP28, SP30, SP31, SP32, SP33 and SP36 are/will be from LCA division (New designations 17, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 27, 28, 29 and 32)...
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

Indranil wrote:First flight of SP 20 in about a week's time. Delivery of 18,19,20 expected in 2-4weeks.
Good, but that implies that HAL would've missed it's target to deliver 8 FOC fighters between April 2020 to March 2021. They'll instead deliver 4 Tejas Mk1 FOC fighters for the year. Covid-19 has had it's impact I guess.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by basant »

Indranil wrote:...
And that's what I mean by they are cutting the umbilical cords. Delivered means delivered from here on.
This is acceptance test flight you are talking of, but the previous posts suggest something else, related to BRD maintenance IIRC. SP-22 was ready but did not fly for a long time. Are these related, or am I missing something?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Indranil wrote:I don't know. I am being told that HAL can go to 16 per annum easily and pretty soon if it has orders. I am hoping some import orders come in, because I have given up hope on MoD.
When HAL says orders, do they mean "orders beyond the 83 from MOD" (or) is there some additional procurement step required that will make the "order for 83" final, final, which HAL is waiting for?
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by srai »

Indranil wrote:I don't know. I am being told that HAL can go to 16 per annum easily and pretty soon if it has orders. I am hoping some import orders come in, because I have given up hope on MoD.
Let’s see if LCAs (SPORT) ever become a reality for operational/conversion flying training in the likes of MiG-21s: https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Gall ... res/MOFTU/

4 squadron worth divided into OFTU-A and OFTU-B

For exports, GoI needs to sweeten the deal with other strategic and commercial offers along with a line of credit/“gifting”. India also need to “invest” in middle arms dealers/agents who can work the generals and politicians of potential importing countries. Some ways to go from being importer to exporter; Paradigm shift.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Kartik »

Check out the Tejas Mk1 display at the SLAF's 70th anniversary fly past..far more energy, tighter turns, rolls, vertical pull ups..a better display overall..Grp Capt Manish Tolani is getting better at this!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

I also liked the part where they patched in the pilot and he conveyed his greetings - nice touch!

Not sure if this is standard in airshows
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Shameek »

^^ Yes, patching in the pilot is a practice at many airshows. Its after all the person behind the machine that makes the difference! :)

I have heard the Suryakirans do something similar in the past.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by srai »

Kartik wrote:Check out the Tejas Mk1 display at the SLAF's 70th anniversary fly past..far more energy, tighter turns, rolls, vertical pull ups..a better display overall..Grp Capt Manish Tolani is getting better at this!

...
Unlike other platform displays, IAF Tejas displays tend to focus on demonstrating air combat maneuvers. GC Tolani fights an imaginary enemy executing a minimum radius turn for a CCM launch and then followed by a few quick maneuvers for a gun shot.
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Haridas »

Prem Kumar wrote:Phenomenal news! They must've gotten over the A2G and A2S hurdles in the executive jet, to have such confidence! Great to see that the A2A mode is operating better than they expected

Even as far as 3 years back, Uttam had the capability to detect a 2 sq.m target at 150 Km. It must be doing better than that now, which is mighty impressive. It means that it can even guide Astra-Mk2 at its max range
To put in perspective, 3 yrs ago there was no GaN based TR module.
Today's GAN TR module with 5 to 8 times more power output, will have even better performance
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Haridas Ji: per @hvtiaf (circa March 2020), Uttam is GaAs based. GaN is still in the works

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1243361094069960704
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 04 January 2021

Post by ramana »

Great.
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