Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 25 Feb 2021 08:25

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 87106?s=20 ---> Skyroot Aerospace showcased their Dhawan-1 3D printed upper stage LNG-LOX cryogenic engine, Raman-1 & Kalam-5 solid-fuel rocket engines to Defence Minister Rajnath Singh. All three engines are being tested currently. Skyroot's Vikram-I rocket will have its 1st launch in December 2021.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 25 Feb 2021 12:46

Vivek K wrote:Strange answer! It could be interpreted that you want to remain as a PSLV launcher forever.


Sir Vivek'K'ji, why do you wrongly interpret me and then proceed to call me a Luddite! (as I interpret your interpretation). Just now I completed a short course on AI just to check if I could and then lost interest in between since I realized I could. So Luddite I am not.

Short answer to your query: I do like PSLV, but my favorite is GSLV Mk2. We should have more of GSLV Mk2 launches and it should replace PSLV. It should also be upgraded to say GSLV MkIIA standard.

I also think GSLV Mk3 should be repurposed for manned launches and a new launch vehicle developed for super heavy launches. However please do not respond to this. My humble request is to read below.

---

AshsishA'ji let me attempt to answer your queries (stated and unstated) and hopefully put together my perspective for the larger group here. I will flit in between some nuggets and information.

In recent news, UAE beat China and became the fourth country to launch a Mars orbiter. China claims it is fifth. It sent a singular photo. The rest of the news carry photos from Mangalyan or American missions.

China launched it with its latest heavy launcher LM5. It had 3 launches in 2020 and planned two launches in 2021. Last two missions were science missions for Moon and Mars. The remaining launches by the Chinese were LM2, LM3, <and plethora of pocket rockets>

SpaceX super heavy which is currently the largest super heavy operational rocket in the world had last launch in 2019. Next is 2 years later for USAF in late 2021. Most of the SpaceX launches is Falcon 9 and again in 2021 most of it will be Falcon 9. F9 just broke a record of most satellites in a single mission by launching 60 star link sats in one go.

GSLV Mk3 itself was launched in 2019 and will be launched again in 2021. One of the last launch was for comm satellite and the other for Chandrayan.

Next launches of ISRO are PSLV/Amazonia, GSLV-II/GISAT-I, SSLV, PSLV/RISAT, GSLV-III/C3*, PSLV/Cartosat, GSLV-III/Gisat-22, SSLV, PSLV, PSLV, PSLV, GSLV-III, PSLV

What do we notice?

1. PSLV is still workhorse of ISRO. 8 Launches on PSLV in a year.
2. GSLV-II is becoming a specialized launch
3. GSLV-III is used for comm launches and science mission.
4. We have a pocket rocket called SSLV (2 launches) that will cannibalize the PSLV.

I have not included ESA and Roscosmos. Roscosmos is not able to fund next generation of rocket launchers. They need to get their act together. Neither NASA since its SLS is still in development and NASA does not have any operational rocket at the moment!

Why do we have such a situation?

All the super heavy launchers are under utilized. China's space program technically is in shambles. They are at a technological dead end and the only way for them is to break through brute force of increasing the number of launches by whichever way possible. They are going the way of the Russian space program. Citing them as a lode star of Indian space program, sacrilege I consider.

The entire launch market is going through a phase shift. Partly by 2005 decision of US Gov to throw space launch open to private entities.

What is the phase shift?

Satellites are getting miniaturized. That is for communications, it is cheaper to throw 60 starlinks into space in LEO at one go. One can repeat it every month if necessary. It is basically taking your network routers, soup them up for space comms and throw them up in the space. For such tiny sats, one does not need Super Heavy behemoths that are launched once or twice a year. It is better to use pocket rockets or rocket launches that can be reliably launched on a schedule.

The earth observation sats are best served by the PSLVs/GSLV Mk2s/Falcon 9s of the world. Falcon 9 is an optimization where the lower booster is returned back to earth at the cost of payload mass. Some EOs are also getting miniaturized, I do envisage that in future a swarm of micro-EOs can do a better job than a single large EO satellite.

The phase shift here is the race to bring down the costs of the launch. Earlier thinking was that if the launch campaign takes 3 months, one can as well put in as much mass and functionality possible into the satellite. That meant heavier and even more heavier satellites. Till the satellites started topping out at 5 tons. Then they were piggy backed with other sats. Still it was not cost effective. Since the larger the rocket is, the more complex it becomes and the chance of something going wrong is also higher which increases the cost. Unless the rockets of a particular family is launched so often that its design cost is paid through and only the operational cost remains. Case in point Soyuz and PSLV.

PSLV was planned in 1970s, designed in 1980s and launched first in 1994. 52 launches and 2 failures. And its SSPO is 1750 kg to 600 kms. Placing it ideally for all kinds of payloads (look at the variants -G, -XL, -CA, -DL, -QL). Any smaller payload will be covered by SSLV.

At this point PSLV is both cheap and versatile for approx. 70-80% of the launches. Remember - Mars orbiter and C-1 was launched on PSLV.

For better cost optimizations, SSLV can fill the gap on the lower end of the segment. Then there is GSLV-Mk2 and Mk3 that complete it on the mid to heavy side.

ISRO is basically coming and saying that the best optimization will be to launch PSLV very often with SSLV filling in gaps. It will be good to have at least a launch of PSLV every month and same for SSLV. That is 24 launches a year and in this cadence nowhere does super heavy or heavy launch figure other than for specialized or science missions.

Any further gaps is completed by the private players with their 3D rocket engine, carbon fibre pocket rockets that can be launched on and in a dime from any location where there is not much risk to human habitation.

Again where is the need for the super heavy that takes 100 ton to LEO? Even falcon heavy with @60 tons to LEO is not used often.

Hence there is a very limited need for a heavy or a super heavy to be used for EO/Comm satellite. In fact the market to launch Comm/EOs using heavy and super heavy launch vehicles have simply vanished.

So the remaining argument for heavy/super heavy generally trotted out is human launch to space, going to moon and mine asteroids.

Of course now the question comes how do we send human to space, to moon, to mars and mine moon and asteroids. We cannot do it unless we have 100 ton to LEO. Is it?

Let's examine the needs first.

1. Reliable launch
2. Low cost to orbit
3. Fast turn around. That is launch, refurbish and re-launch. The cost is now only propellants. Circle back to point 1.

That was the promise of space shuttle. Launch like a rocket, glide back, refurbish and relaunch. Thus a low cost to space. For various reasons the promise did not pan out and US had to rely on Russia to send its astronaut to the space station. Until ofcourse Falcon 9 comes along. And that is what the premise of Falcon9 is, reliable fast launches thus reducing the cost to orbit. Falcon-heavy is fast becoming a museum piece.

So where does 100 ton to LEO come into picture? Just by arguing for it vehemently does not make it necessary. What is necessary is an honest evaluation of each program to space.

For example, do the comm and EO sats require super heavy launch vehicles? Anything above 20t to LEO? Answer is a resoundingly no. <2 Tonnes to SSO at 600 km PSLV is doing just fine. GSLV Mk2/Mk3 can chip in as required. By itself, India just has to enhance and tune the GSLV-Mk series launch vehicles and it will be sufficient.

What about humans to space? Again it does not require a falcon-heavy class vehicle. It does not require to start a multi-billion dollar design and development just to create a rocket to put 60-100 tonnes in LEO.

Man rating GSLV-Mk-3 followed by putting RLV into operation would be way to go. RLV with boosters developed for GSLV as going into TSTO might be more prudent. Point is,

1. Safety
2. Reliability
3. Reusability

That leaves scientific missions. UAE beat China to Mars. An earlier Chinese mission failed because China hitched a ride with Russian rocket that developed snags. Everybody asking for 100t to LEO ever wonder why Chinese had to book a ride on Russian rockets? I will leave it to them.

In any scientific expoloration, what is important? A rover on mars to do what additional scientific surveys or a rover under the oceans? Questions should be asked on why we want to go to mars or moon and why now? Since each rupee is precious, it has to be balanced.
Last edited by disha on 26 Feb 2021 08:57, edited 1 time in total.

Vivek K
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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 25 Feb 2021 20:24

You're definitely not a conservationist - a very long post. I think that you're trying to give a new perspective to your earlier attacks. Did anyone say that we want a 1 ton satellite to be launched by a 100 ton payload vehicle? Did anyone say that we need to discard PSLVs because they can only launch small payloads?
It is good to see that you accept that there is a role for the different types of vehicles - PSLVs, GSLV MK2 and 3 and the heavy launchers. In the event we were unclear in previous posts, this "one line" may clear it up - it was suggested that along with the current successful development of launchers, ISRO should also work on developing heavy launch capability in the next 10 years or less.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 28 Feb 2021 10:36

PSLV launch for 2021 is being streamed live at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr91aM3nbW0&feature=youtu.be

As usual DukhDarshan (DD National( will give you lot of pain.

But the "Laanch Zequence Naarmal" utterances and "vanijyak vyavastha" utterances is indeed soothing....

Loved the way ISRO employee hammered the bolts joining the segments of the solid motor booster. Totally loving the hammer's hi-tech design.

DukhDarshan is giving immense pain!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby juvva » 28 Feb 2021 11:30

primary sat sep.!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby basant » 28 Feb 2021 12:56

First mission of ISRO in 2021 on a Sunday and it's longest too, and just 2 posts on the event. We have come a long way!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 28 Feb 2021 21:55

Great Job ISRO! Very proud. Any details of the Amazonia-1 satellite?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 28 Feb 2021 22:16

basant wrote:First mission of ISRO in 2021 on a Sunday and it's longest too, and just 2 posts on the event. We have come a long way!

I didn’t even watch it, probably the first launch I have missed watching in a long, long time.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Feb 2021 23:12

basant wrote:First mission of ISRO in 2021 on a Sunday and it's longest too, and just 2 posts on the event. We have come a long way!


This is because BRF is no longer the primary forum for information on Indian space flight. People are going elsewhere; in particular potential new participants.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 01 Mar 2021 01:16

So which is the primary forum for Indian space?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2021 02:59

Vivek K wrote:So which is the primary forum for Indian space?


https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=62.0

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby chetonzz » 01 Mar 2021 10:53

Mort Walker wrote:
Vivek K wrote:So which is the primary forum for Indian space?


https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=62.0


yes, that one is very informative and up to date...even I try to contribute few updates there every now and then

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby la.khan » 01 Mar 2021 11:40

SSridhar wrote:
basant wrote:First mission of ISRO in 2021 on a Sunday and it's longest too, and just 2 posts on the event. We have come a long way!

I didn’t even watch it, probably the first launch I have missed watching in a long, long time.

So, ISRO launched yet another PSLV rocket successfully. Congrats! This is so routine that is almost yawn inducing :|

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 01 Mar 2021 12:29

One not-so-publicized satellite is the "Sindhu Netra" developed by DRDO with a University. For monitoring vessels in the Indian Ocean, South China sea etc.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/drdos-sindhu-netra-surveillance-satellite-deployed-in-space-will-help-to-monitor-indian-ocean-region/articleshow/81257432.cms

Some more details here. The university is called PES and based in Bangalore. Good hand-holding by the ISRO/DRDO:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2021/mar/01/sindhu-netra-satellite-built-by-students-will-keep-vigil-over-seas-2270293.html

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 01 Mar 2021 12:39

^Interesting that we are plugging a website with full of ads and tiny fonts and threads all over the place on that website (referring to couple of posts above). Though thanks for the above link, I will be plugging the photos from that site over here.

It is good that PSLV Launch is becoming ho hum. The reason it was important to me was the following:

1. Brazil's bonhomie with India now visible in satellite launch. Brazil chose to launch its Amazonia satellite using Indian rocket (Strategic)
2. This is the first launch via NSIL. The Antrix-Devas deal put the commercial arm Antrix of ISRO under dark cloud (Commercial)
3. PSLV upper stage performed two restarts to achieve different trajectories (Technical)

Coming to the commercial part, the NSIL route is significant. Via NSIL, ISRO plans to:

1. Move PSLV into commercial production by a consortium of Indian industries via NSIL.

In one go, the launch market of satellites upto ~1750 Kg to 660 km of Sun Synchronous Polar orbit is open to commercial activity via NSIL/PSLV, NSIL/SSLV (design, test, commercialize via NSIL) and the various private players like Skyroot

2. Commercialization of upto 1.4 tonnes to sub GTO.

Further NSIL will help move development of satellites to Indian consortium. That is, one can license a satellite bus/platform from NSIL, build a satellite, use NSIL testing services, book a launch via NSIL onto one of the platforms and find a launch window from one of the space port (currently there is only one though) and launch it.

This is true democratization of space for Indians. In <40 years, India has moved from foreign built foreign launched 1-tonne satellites to complete Indian commercial built Indian commercial launched > 1 tonne satellites.

What does this do further? It will create a sub-industry of satellites COTS parts and services. I do envisage that five years from now, so many Indian sat COTS parts will be available that we at BRF can create our own micro-satellite and launch it.

---

PS: In all of the above, where is the need for a super-heavy launcher that launches 100 tons to LEO?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 01 Mar 2021 12:50

What I find exciting is the launch of the 3UM micro-satellite SDSAT by Space Kids India

https://www.spacekidzindia.in/sdsat/

Also, notable aspects of SD SAT are:

With the ambition of creating awareness and educating the common man about space sciences, SKI is sending 25,000 names to space onboard its SD-SAT.

Engraved Hon'ble Prime Minister Shri. Narendra Modi Ji's picture on the top panel of the Satellite is to show solidarity and gratitude for his Atmanirbhar initiative and Space privatization. For us, it has been very helpful by opening up ISRO facilities as we could do all the testing conveniently and comfortably in ISRO centers and saved a lot of time and money. This has not been there in the last fifty years and hence this move is really gratifying and we wished to show our gratification to the honorable prime minister by etching his picture. Also and not only for us but for millions of youth and the country this privatization and opening up of ISRO is going to be highly beneficial as space is the future.

Sending Bhagavadgita on-board an SD Card - As Bhagavad Gita is considered the “Supreme epic of India” where people irrespective of any religion, cast,e or creed, follow the principles of Bhagavad Gita. We Indians believe in “Vasudeva kutumbakam” and this epic teaches us that oneness is the highest form of humanity. Dr. Kesan felt we need to probably give this epic scripture the highest form of honor and that is why we, Space Kidz India have stored it in the flash that is going to Space.


Of course the kid satellite will also do the following:

Goals of the Satellite

To study space radiation
Magnetosphere and
Demonstrate the indigenously designed and developed nanosatellite components as part of our Hon'ble PM's Vision - Aatmanirbhar Bharat Initiative.

The satellite also tests the capabilities of LoRa technology in Space which could be helpful for many applications in the future in short and M2M communication.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby uddu » 01 Mar 2021 14:03

Showed live on Brazilian TV and Brazilian News Channels ran the news




What I could make out is that the Brazilian President got a major boost with this launch. The whole comment section is full of praise for him. It's said that Brazil's view of India was not that positive historically. Indians in the comment section is Congratulating Brazil and also demanding they send their Football coaches in exchange for Rockets. :lol: May be after Republic day parade, Covid vaccine diplomacy and now the Space launch, things could be moving in the right direction for better India-Brazil friendship and cooperation.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2021 23:47

^^^
Off topic.

Maybe relations will improve as part of vaccine and space diplomacy. It is worth noting that slavery of Africans and indigenous people lasted from 1520-1888 in Brazil. The language spoken is Portuguese. The wealthy and ruling class are white Western Europeans, but there is a significant portion of mixed African-Native Indian-European people.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby jaysimha » 02 Mar 2021 14:21

HUMANS IN SPACE POLICY FOR INDIA 2021
https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/draft_humans_in_space_policy-02.pdf

"Draft Humans in Space Policy for India, 2021" _ Hosting in public domain for comments/suggestions

Comments on the draft policy, if any, shall be forwarded to this Department to the
email id :- dir.projects@isro.gov.in earliest, but not later at the than 28.02.2021

--------------------
Hope they may consider if we send mail even now after due date.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 03 Mar 2021 02:03

Beautiful pictures of the upcoming PSLV integration Facility and tracks for mobile launch pad for the first launch pad. Should bring up launch capability from 6 PSLVs per annum to 15 PSLVs per annum.

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 03 Mar 2021 02:21

No threat by the curved pathway to the movement? Could they have not added another launch pad next to the PIF instead of bringing it this far?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Indranil » 03 Mar 2021 02:33

The diameter of that curve is 500 mtrs. No problems.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 03 Mar 2021 13:50

Slightly OT post here
BRFities here any Views about "MTAR Technologies Limited IPO" ????

or some chaiwala / paanwala info or expert anecdote about the company & its prospects ityadi ityadi

MTAR Technologies :- Incorporated in 1999, MTAR Technologies is a leading national player in the precision engineering industry. The company is primarily engaged in the manufacturing of mission-critical precision components with close tolerance and in critical assemblies through its precision machining, assembly, specialized fabrication, testing, and quality control processes.

Since its inception, MTAR Technologies has significantly expanded its product portfolio including critical assemblies i.e. Liquid propulsion engines to GSLV Mark III, Base Shroud Assembly & Airframes for Agni Programs, Actuators for LCA, power units for fuel cells, Fuel machining head, Bridge & Column, Drive Mechanisms, Thimble Package, etc. A wide range of complex product portfolios meets the varied requirements of the Indian nuclear, Defense, and Space sector. ISRO, NPCIL, DRDO, Bloom Energy, Rafael, Elbit, etc. are some of the esteem clients.

Currently, the firm has 7 state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities in Hyderabad, Telangana that undertake precision machining, assembly, specialized fabrication, brazing and heat treatment, testing and quality control, and other specialized processes.

Competitive strengths

Wide range of product portfolio.
7 Modern technology manufacturing units.
Diversified supplier base.
Strong financial track record.
Experienced and qualified management.
Company Promoters:
Parvat Srinivas Reddy, P. Leelavathi, K. Shalini, D. Anitha Reddy, C. Usha Reddy, G. Kavitha Reddy, Anushman Reddy, P. Kalpana Reddy, Saranya Loka Reddy, A. Manogna, and M. Madhavi are the company promoters.



https://www.chittorgarh.com/ipo/mtar-technologies-ipo/1088/

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 04 Mar 2021 07:31

There are lots of these two bit 'precision manufacturing' companies. Invariably they use all foreign-made equipment and do the manufacturing operations as per the design and direction of ISRO/DRDO/etc. It is good that they have some competence but don't expect them to contribute much to indigenization, atma-nirbharta, IP development etc.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 04 Mar 2021 07:49

Prem Kumar wrote:One not-so-publicized satellite is the "Sindhu Netra" developed by DRDO with a University. For monitoring vessels in the Indian Ocean, South China sea etc.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/drdos-sindhu-netra-surveillance-satellite-deployed-in-space-will-help-to-monitor-indian-ocean-region/articleshow/81257432.cms

Some more details here. The university is called PES and based in Bangalore. Good hand-holding by the ISRO/DRDO:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2021/mar/01/sindhu-netra-satellite-built-by-students-will-keep-vigil-over-seas-2270293.html


Story behind PES university satellites is not what is reported by media.
They have an entire department consisting of 20 ex-ISRO scientists and engineers who have no teaching responsibilities, ie. they are entirely focused on satellite development. Students are peripheral at best to the whole endeavour.
I don't understand why there is so much tamasha about students building satellites. Students know next to nothing, and have no time to spare given assignments, exams and other activities. Satellite making is a profession, not an extracurricular activity. The so called 'student' sats thus turn out to be mostly assembled kits which are launched for prestige reasons rather than anything useful :lol: . Trust me, I have been part of the satellite team at IIT Kanpur.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 05 Mar 2021 22:43

ISRO annual report for 2020-2021 is out. There are nuggets for sure :)

https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/f ... nglish.pdf

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby venkat_kv » 06 Mar 2021 03:41

csaurabh wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:One not-so-publicized satellite is the "Sindhu Netra" developed by DRDO with a University. For monitoring vessels in the Indian Ocean, South China sea etc.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/drdos-sindhu-netra-surveillance-satellite-deployed-in-space-will-help-to-monitor-indian-ocean-region/articleshow/81257432.cms

Some more details here. The university is called PES and based in Bangalore. Good hand-holding by the ISRO/DRDO:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2021/mar/01/sindhu-netra-satellite-built-by-students-will-keep-vigil-over-seas-2270293.html


Story behind PES university satellites is not what is reported by media.
They have an entire department consisting of 20 ex-ISRO scientists and engineers who have no teaching responsibilities, ie. they are entirely focused on satellite development. Students are peripheral at best to the whole endeavour.
I don't understand why there is so much tamasha about students building satellites. Students know next to nothing, and have no time to spare given assignments, exams and other activities. Satellite making is a profession, not an extracurricular activity. The so called 'student' sats thus turn out to be mostly assembled kits which are launched for prestige reasons rather than anything useful :lol: . Trust me, I have been part of the satellite team at IIT Kanpur.


thanks Csuarabh for the info. But if what you are reporting is true i don't understand why the ex-Isro scientists not go private and establish a company for the same. what is the advantage of joining a University and be a non-teaching staff to build these satellites. Surely they could achieve more in terms of monetary and satisfaction is also there when the satellites are being launched. they could still use the students to intern for a few months to teach/finish working on the satellites.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby ernest » 06 Mar 2021 10:05

venkat_kv wrote:thanks Csuarabh for the info. But if what you are reporting is true i don't understand why the ex-Isro scientists not go private and establish a company for the same. what is the advantage of joining a University and be a non-teaching staff to build these satellites. Surely they could achieve more in terms of monetary and satisfaction is also there when the satellites are being launched. they could still use the students to intern for a few months to teach/finish working on the satellites.


But sir, they are already doing that. Look at all the startups in space sector, Skyroot, Agnikul, pixxel. They are filled with ex-ISRO people

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby tandav » 06 Mar 2021 10:23

venkat_kv wrote:
csaurabh wrote:
Story behind PES university satellites is not what is reported by media.
They have an entire department consisting of 20 ex-ISRO scientists and engineers who have no teaching responsibilities, ie. they are entirely focused on satellite development. Students are peripheral at best to the whole endeavour.
I don't understand why there is so much tamasha about students building satellites. Students know next to nothing, and have no time to spare given assignments, exams and other activities. Satellite making is a profession, not an extracurricular activity. The so called 'student' sats thus turn out to be mostly assembled kits which are launched for prestige reasons rather than anything useful :lol: . Trust me, I have been part of the satellite team at IIT Kanpur.


thanks Csuarabh for the info. But if what you are reporting is true i don't understand why the ex-Isro scientists not go private and establish a company for the same. what is the advantage of joining a University and be a non-teaching staff to build these satellites. Surely they could achieve more in terms of monetary and satisfaction is also there when the satellites are being launched. they could still use the students to intern for a few months to teach/finish working on the satellites.


If they go private then ISRO cannot give funds to private entity without a L1 tender process with atleast 3 bidders etc. Its much easier for ISRO to give funds directly to a Govt Research College to make such proprietary things.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby srin » 06 Mar 2021 11:22

csaurabh wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:One not-so-publicized satellite is the "Sindhu Netra" developed by DRDO with a University. For monitoring vessels in the Indian Ocean, South China sea etc.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/drdos-sindhu-netra-surveillance-satellite-deployed-in-space-will-help-to-monitor-indian-ocean-region/articleshow/81257432.cms

Some more details here. The university is called PES and based in Bangalore. Good hand-holding by the ISRO/DRDO:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2021/mar/01/sindhu-netra-satellite-built-by-students-will-keep-vigil-over-seas-2270293.html


Story behind PES university satellites is not what is reported by media.
They have an entire department consisting of 20 ex-ISRO scientists and engineers who have no teaching responsibilities, ie. they are entirely focused on satellite development. Students are peripheral at best to the whole endeavour.
I don't understand why there is so much tamasha about students building satellites. Students know next to nothing, and have no time to spare given assignments, exams and other activities. Satellite making is a profession, not an extracurricular activity. The so called 'student' sats thus turn out to be mostly assembled kits which are launched for prestige reasons rather than anything useful :lol: . Trust me, I have been part of the satellite team at IIT Kanpur.


I don't quite get your disdain. This is exactly how it should be. Because some of those kids will go out and start making those kits in a few years. Some of them will join the other private ventures. This should have been done decades ago, and I wish more universities get into this. Btw, I commend PES's (and a few others) for its foresight and investment against the long odds. Many engg colleges/universities are simply degree mills, but some are breaking out of the mold and playing the long game.

Currently, the space industry is heavily regulated, but due to private launchers in US and other places and even India starting to go the private route, it is going to change massively - not overnight, but over next 5-10 years. We need to have private organizations and startups that can make satellites for the world. We need to have companies that make space tech components, companies that make cheap launchers, and we need infrastructure to test and make all of it happen.

We need a pool of young and confident graduates who have some experience and exposure to space tech, working with the old hands in private industry. We need an ecosystem built of component makers, satellite makers and launchers - where startups, SMEs, universities, big organizations and ISRO take part. And it may start with screwdriver-giri, but over a decade, it'll transform the system.

I, for one, am glad of this.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby venkat_kv » 06 Mar 2021 13:12

ernest wrote:
venkat_kv wrote:thanks Csuarabh for the info. But if what you are reporting is true i don't understand why the ex-Isro scientists not go private and establish a company for the same. what is the advantage of joining a University and be a non-teaching staff to build these satellites. Surely they could achieve more in terms of monetary and satisfaction is also there when the satellites are being launched. they could still use the students to intern for a few months to teach/finish working on the satellites.


But sir, they are already doing that. Look at all the startups in space sector, Skyroot, Agnikul, pixxel. They are filled with ex-ISRO people


Ernest Saar, what i meant was why a University or college route, why not as a private companies. the companies listed by you are all not into satellite business, some are into the launcher and fabrication as well. but why as a college especially if Csaurabh saar says, they are non -teaching faculty that is only focused on satellites.

Atleast, what tandav has said will make sense if its true in terms of awarding satellites. But their couldn't be that big of a margin or difference in satellites made by ex-isro employees and private sector to be awarded L1 especially when most of the college satellites are seemingly experimental in purpose.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby venkat_kv » 06 Mar 2021 13:15

uddu wrote:Showed live on Brazilian TV and Brazilian News Channels ran the news
snip.....

What I could make out is that the Brazilian President got a major boost with this launch. The whole comment section is full of praise for him. It's said that Brazil's view of India was not that positive historically. Indians in the comment section is Congratulating Brazil and also demanding they send their Football coaches in exchange for Rockets. :lol: May be after Republic day parade, Covid vaccine diplomacy and now the Space launch, things could be moving in the right direction for better India-Brazil friendship and cooperation.


Saar, its news to me that Brazil doesn't have historically positive opinion on India. I mean we don't have any overt hostilities or issues to be enemies or friends and Brazil is not a First world nation to look down upon others. It was said in various farming videos I had seen quite some time back that lot of people from Brazil came to take local breed of cows back to their country to breed them for meat and milk. So I am a bit awed at the report that Brazil didn't have good opinion on us.

the response can be in appropriate forum in case its not Kosher in the Indian Space thread.
thanks,

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 07 Mar 2021 20:09

GISAT-1 Satellite set for March 28 launch.

According to sources, GISAT-1 will be followed by the maiden flight of Small Satellite Launch Vehicle, Isro's compact launcher, likely in April.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 07 Mar 2021 22:40

csaurabh wrote:Story behind PES university satellites is not what is reported by media.
They have an entire department consisting of 20 ex-ISRO scientists and engineers who have no teaching responsibilities, ie. they are entirely focused on satellite development. Students are peripheral at best to the whole endeavour.
I don't understand why there is so much tamasha about students building satellites. Students know next to nothing, and have no time to spare given assignments, exams and other activities. Satellite making is a profession, not an extracurricular activity. The so called 'student' sats thus turn out to be mostly assembled kits which are launched for prestige reasons rather than anything useful :lol: . Trust me, I have been part of the satellite team at IIT Kanpur.


I don't care about the PES part - the capabilities of the satellite is what's important. All student sats are for amateur use but helps build interest in space-tech. DRDO/Military will not rely on a student-built satellite to monitor ships!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 07 Mar 2021 22:42

Vips wrote:GISAT-1 Satellite set for March 28 launch.

According to sources, GISAT-1 will be followed by the maiden flight of Small Satellite Launch Vehicle, Isro's compact launcher, likely in April.


Its a year delayed almost. There were some rumors (not sure how reliable) that it was put on hold due to Unkil's pressure

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 08 Mar 2021 10:46

I was pointing out that what PES university is doing is not really new or revolutionary. It is simply an extension of satellite building activites already present in ISRO.

In other news, our startup company has been awarded the ANIC grant ( Atma-nirbhar India challenge ) in the category of ISRO-Robotics/AR/VR .

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby ernest » 08 Mar 2021 15:22

csaurabh wrote:In other news, our startup company has been awarded the ANIC grant ( Atma-nirbhar India challenge ) in the category of ISRO-Robotics/AR/VR .


That's great. Best wishes to you and your team. Please try to share more on what solutions you are working on. Will be helpful for a lot on nanha mujahids like me trying to come up with technology based startups for Indian needs.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby arvin » 08 Mar 2021 22:42

Congrats csaurabh. Nice to read your updates on startup ecosystem.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 09 Mar 2021 06:18

Indigenously developed spectrograph to boost Indian space research.

Scientists have indigenously designed and developed a low-cost optical spectrograph that can locate sources of faint light from distant quasars and galaxies. It can also detect regions around supermassive black holes around the galaxies, and cosmic explosions, the Department of Science and Technology said. Till now, these spectrographs were imported to India.

The optical spectrograph named as Aries-Devasthal Faint Object Spectrograph & Camera (ADFOSC) has been designed and developed by Aryabhatta Research Institute of Observational Sciences (ARIES), Nainital. It's about two-and-a-half times less costlier compared to the imported ones and can locate sources of light with a photon-rate as low as about one photon per second. The total cost of this instrument is around ₹4 crore.

The largest of its kind among the existing astronomical spectrographs in the country, it has been successfully commissioned on the 3.6-m Devasthal Optical Telescope (DOT). The optical telescope, located near Nainital in Uttarakhand, is the largest in not only India but also Asia.

The spectrograph, a backbone of the 3.6-m DOT for observations of extremely faint celestial sources, uses a complex arrangement of several lenses made of special glasses that are polished to better than five nanometer smoothness to produce sharp images of the celestial sky.

Photons coming from distant celestial sources, collected by the telescope, are sorted into different colours by the spectrograph and are finally converted into electronic recordable signals using an in-house developed Charge-Coupled Device (CCD) camera cooled to an extremely low temperature of minus 120 degrees Celsius.

The spectrograph is presently being used by astronomers from India and abroad to study distant quasars and galaxies in a very young universe, regions around supermassive black-holes around the galaxies, cosmic explosions like supernovae and highly energetic gamma-ray bursts, young and massive stars, and faint dwarf galaxies.

“The indigenous efforts to build complex instruments like ADFOSC in India is an important step to become 'Aatmanirbhar' in the field of astronomy and astrophysics,” said Dipankar Banerjee, director, ARIES.

Expertise from various national institutes, organisations including the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and some micro-small-medium (MSME) enterprises, were involved to review and build parts of the instrument serving as an example of effective collaboration, the DST added.

With this expertise, ARIES now plans to commission more complex instruments such as spectro-polarimeter and high-spectral resolution spectrograph on the 3.6-m Devasthal telescope in the near future.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 10 Mar 2021 08:03

ISRO develops radar for joint earth observation satellite mission with NASA.

ISRO has completed development of a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) capable of producing extremely high-resolution images for a joint earth observation satellite mission with the US space agency NASA.

NASA-ISRO SAR (NISAR) is a joint collaboration for a dual-frequency L and S-band SAR for earth observation.

"NISAR will be the first satellite mission to use two different radar frequencies (L-band and S-band) to measure changes in our planet's surface less than a centimeter across", according to NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration).

NASA and Bengaluru-headquartered ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) signed a partnership on September 30, 2014, to collaborate on and launch NISAR.

The mission is targeted to launch in early 2022 from ISRO's Sriharikota spaceport in Andhra Pradesh's Nellore district, about 100 kms north of Chennai.

NASA is providing the mission's L-band SAR, a high-rate communication subsystem for science data, GPS receivers, a solid-state recorder and payload data subsystem.

ISRO is providing the spacecraft bus, the S-band radar, the launch vehicle and associated launch services for the mission, whose goal is to make global measurements of the causes and consequences of land surface changes using advanced radar imaging.

The S-band SAR payload of NISAR satellite mission was flagged off by the Secretary in the Department of Space and ISRO Chairman K Sivan on March 4 through virtual mode.

The payload has been shipped from ISRO's Ahmedabad-based Space Applications Centre (SAC) to NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at Pasadena in the US for integration with the latter's L-band SAR payload, an ISRO statement said.

"NISAR would provide a means of disentangling highly spatial and temporally complex processes ranging from ecosystem disturbances to ice sheet collapses and natural hazards including earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes and landslides", ISRO said.

NASA added that the mission will measure Earth's changing ecosystems, dynamic surfaces and ice masses, providing information about biomass, natural hazards, sea level rise and groundwater, and will support a host of other applications.

"NISAR will observe Earth's land and ice-covered surfaces globally with 12-day regularity on ascending and descending passes, sampling Earth on average every six days for a baseline three-year mission", NASA said on the mission's website.

"This allows the mission to observe a wide range of Earth processes, from the flow rates of glaciers and ice sheets to the dynamics of earthquakes and volcanoes".

NISAR uses a sophisticated information-processing technique known as SAR to produce extremely high-resolution images.

Radar penetrates clouds and darkness, enabling NISAR to collect data day and night in any weather.

The instrument's imaging swath the width of the strip of data collected along the length of the orbit track is greater than 150 miles (240 kilometres), which allows it to image the entire Earth in 12 days, it was stated.

Over the course of multiple orbits, the radar images will allow users to track changes in croplands and hazard sites, as well as to monitor ongoing crises such as volcanic eruptions.

The images will be detailed enough to show local changes and broad enough to measure regional trends.

As the mission continues for years, the data will allow for better understanding of the causes and consequences of land surface changes, increasing our ability to manage resources and prepare for and cope with global change, according to NASA.

"NASA requires a minimum of three years of global science operations with the L-band radar, and ISRO requires five years of operations with the S-band radar over specified target areas in India and the Southern Ocean", it said.


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