Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

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Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 07:50

Last Page of Previous Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7248&start=4440

Time for a new thread, as the old one crossed 100 pages a while back.

Indian Space Organizations

Indian Space Research Organization ---> https://www.isro.gov.in/

New Space India Limited ---> https://www.nsilindia.co.in/

Agnikul Aerospace ---> https://agnikul.in/

Skyroot Aerospace ---> https://skyroot.in/

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 07:55

I have rarely posted in the Indian Space Program thread. But this tweet brings so much *KHUSHI* to this jingo.

India's very own SpaceX! A start up called Skyroot Aerospace has started. This is the company website ---> https://skyroot.in/

See the news below...Aero India 2021 is turning out to be better than expected. WOW!

Non-Disclosure Agreement signed with M/s Skyroot
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-feb-2 ... -s-skyroot
02 Feb 2021

Department of Space has today, February 02, 2021 entered into a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with M/s Skyroot Aerospace Pvt. Ltd., a private company in Hyderabad building small satellite launch vehicles. The NDA will enable the company for accessing the facilities and technical expertise available in ISRO centers to proceed with their launch vehicle development program.

On the occasion, M/s Skyroot representatives also met Dr K Sivan, Secretary, DOS/ Chairman, ISRO and he assured all support to M/s Skyroot for testing and qualifying their launch vehicle. Shri R Umamaheswaran, Scientific Secretary, ISRO, signed the agreement on behalf of DOS and Mr Pawan Chandana, CEO, M/s Skyroot Aerospace signed the agreement from the company side. The NDA was signed in the presence of Shri S Somanath, Director, VSSC and other senior officials of ISRO/DOS.

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 07:56

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 59009?s=20 ---> Department of Space has signed an NDA with Indian start-up Skyroot Aerospace to help them in developing a family of small satellite launch vehicles. This will enable the company to access the facilities & tech expertise available at various ISRO centres.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 08:00

Planning at least one unmanned Gaganyaan mission in 2021
https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/ ... -2021.html

Interview with Dr K. Sivan, Chairman - Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO)

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 05 Feb 2021 21:58

Brazilian, Indian startup satellite in ISRO’s first mission in 2021 on Feb 28.

In its first mission in 2021, India’s space agency ISRO planned to launch on February 28 Brazilian satellite Amazonia-1 and three Indian payloads, including one built by a home-grown start-up. The satellites are slated to be launched onboard the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) C-51 at 10.28 am from the Sriharikota spaceport, over 100 kms from Chennai.

Amazonia-1, reportedly the first earth observation satellite entirely developed by Brazil, is the primary payload. ‘Anand’, ‘Satish Dhawan’ satellite and ‘UNITYsat’ will be the co-passengers. ‘Anand’ is built by Indian space startup, Pixxel, and ‘Satish Dhawan Satellite’ by Chennai-based Space Kidz India.

UNITYsat is a combination of three satellites designed and built as a joint development by Jeppiaar Institute of Technology, Sriperumpudur (JITsat), G. H. Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur (GHRCEsat) and Sri Shakthi Institute of Engineering and Technology, Coimbatore (Sri Shakthi Sat).

"PSLV-C51 marks the launch of the countrys first commercial private remote-sensing satellite (Anand) on an ISRO PSLV rocket”, an ISRO official said.

Sivan had earlier described the upcoming mission as “special for us, special for the entire country” and beginning of a “new era of space (sector) reforms”.

Pixxel CEO, Awais Ahmed had said: “We are elated with the fact that Indias first commercial private satellite will now launch on an Indian rocket. This is not only a proud moment for us as an organisation but also as citizens to work with our nations capabilities”.

Bengaluru-based Pixxel has said it plans to build a constellation of 30 satellites by 2023. The company inaugurated it’s new facility here last month.

According to Space Kidz India, Satish Dhawan satellite (SD SAT), named after former ISRO chairman Satish Dhawan, aimed to study space radiation and Magnetosphere and demonstrate the indigenously designed and developed nanosatellite components.

“The satellite also tests the capabilities of LoRa technology in Space which could be helpful for many applications in the future in short and M2M communication”, it said.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby venkat_kv » 06 Feb 2021 02:05

Vips wrote:Brazilian, Indian startup satellite in ISRO’s first mission in 2021 on Feb 28.

In its first mission in 2021, India’s space agency ISRO planned to launch on February 28 Brazilian satellite Amazonia-1 and three Indian payloads, including one built by a home-grown start-up. The satellites are slated to be launched onboard the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) C-51 at 10.28 am from the Sriharikota spaceport, over 100 kms from Chennai.

Amazonia-1, reportedly the first earth observation satellite entirely developed by Brazil, is the primary payload. ‘Anand’, ‘Satish Dhawan’ satellite and ‘UNITYsat’ will be the co-passengers. ‘Anand’ is built by Indian space startup, Pixxel, and ‘Satish Dhawan Satellite’ by Chennai-based Space Kidz India.

UNITYsat is a combination of three satellites designed and built as a joint development by Jeppiaar Institute of Technology, Sriperumpudur (JITsat), G. H. Raisoni College of Engineering, Nagpur (GHRCEsat) and Sri Shakthi Institute of Engineering and Technology, Coimbatore (Sri Shakthi Sat).

"PSLV-C51 marks the launch of the countrys first commercial private remote-sensing satellite (Anand) on an ISRO PSLV rocket”, an ISRO official said.

Sivan had earlier described the upcoming mission as “special for us, special for the entire country” and beginning of a “new era of space (sector) reforms”.

Pixxel CEO, Awais Ahmed had said: “We are elated with the fact that Indias first commercial private satellite will now launch on an Indian rocket. This is not only a proud moment for us as an organisation but also as citizens to work with our nations capabilities”.

Bengaluru-based Pixxel has said it plans to build a constellation of 30 satellites by 2023. The company inaugurated it’s new facility here last month.

According to Space Kidz India, Satish Dhawan satellite (SD SAT), named after former ISRO chairman Satish Dhawan, aimed to study space radiation and Magnetosphere and demonstrate the indigenously designed and developed nanosatellite components.

“The satellite also tests the capabilities of LoRa technology in Space which could be helpful for many applications in the future in short and M2M communication”, it said.


Saar a noob poonch,
Do the universities, colleges and private sector have the required labs to test the sub components for the required satellite. I mean are they contracting from the same sub vendors of ISRO to do their work. The satallite will have to be tested for tolerances and g forces.

are they paying ISRO to use their facilities for testing and also get consultancy in case of issues or are they building everything from ground up (it would a wonderful thing in the latter case though find it hard to believe that all colelges and universities would scale up so soon)?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 06 Feb 2021 12:26

Most of the university satellites are plug and play/ assembly technology only. They all use commercially available and certified components. It is mainly done for reasons of prestige and showing off. Believe me, I have worked on one. These and so called 'kids' satellites are just soon to be space debris.

And yes, much of the testing is done at ISRO, usually for no payment.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 08 Feb 2021 01:50

Do not have an appropriate thread so posting here:

How Deep Ocean Mission will further government's vision of 'blue economy'.

Sometime in the next three years, three people — likely a pilot and two scientists — will go 6,000 m deep into the ocean in a lithium battery-powered vehicle capable of staying underwater for up to 16 hours. They will be seated in a specially crafted titanium alloy sphere with a diameter of 2.1 m and thickness of 80 mm in a space that would be slightly smaller than that of a Maruti 800, with three view ports. This vehicle, Matsya 6000, will be India’s rst manned submersible and the dive, if successful, will be akin to a giant leap, to paraphrase Neil Armstrong, for the country. If space was once the nal frontier, the unexplored depths of oceans are now seeing no less of a race among countries to go where others have not gone
before.

The development and launch of Matsya 6000 is part of India’s ambitious Deep Ocean Mission, for which Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has announced Rs 4,000 crore, to be spent over ve years, in Budget 2021-22. While plans for the mission have been discussed over the last few years and work has begun, this is the rst time there is a dedicated budget for it. “It’s been in the works for two-three years but this has now become a huge project in mission mode. The ocean has a lot of resources, both living and non-living, which we really need to map and exploit — for minerals, for
energy, for drinking water,” says Madhavan Nair Rajeevan, secretary of the Ministry of Earth Sciences, which will be spearheading the mission.

The imperative to double down on deep sea exploration and research also stems from the fact that countries that are developing the technology for going 6,000 m down to exploit deep-sea minerals (currently not allowed commercially) will not part with their expertise because of its strategic importance. “Minerals mean money, so ocean technology is not easily shared.

Unless we do it ourselves, we cannot perfect this technology,” says Rajeevan. Even in manned submersibles, only five countries have been successful. Last November, China shared footage of its manned submersible, Striver, which descended over 10,000 m to the bottom of the Mariana Trench with three researchers. India’s manned submersible is being developed by the National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT), Chennai, with ISRO working on the “crew module”. It is expected to be ready by 2024. “We are halfway through and might venture into a 500 m depth next year,”
says GA Ramadass, director, NIOT.

Image

The submersible is one of the many projects of the Deep Ocean Mission, which involves institutes like NIOT, CSIR, ISRO and DRDO. Its other projects include developing deep-sea technologies and systems, deep-ocean exploration and setting up a research facility in Goa for marine biology and engineering. “It is an ambitious programme to develop deep-sea mining systems as it will have to bear the high pressure at depths of 4,000-6,000 m, where the resources are located.

These mining systems are not available anywhere in the world,” says MP Wakdikar, senior scientist and adviser, Earth Sciences Ministry.

India has a 15-year contract with the International Seabed Authority (ISA), a UN backed body in charge of regulations for ocean floors, to explore 75,000 sq km in the Indian Ocean for manganese nodules, or polymetallic nodules, as they are known. These potato shaped nodules, found on the seabed, are rich in copper, nickel, cobalt and manganese — metals which have a host of applications in devices, from batteries to mobile phones. An estimate by India from the surface pegs the quantity of these nodules at 385 million tonnes, with the processed minerals valued at $110 billion. The country also has a 15-year contract for the exploration of hydrothermal sulphides across 10,000 sq km southeast of Madagascar.

“Hydrothermal sulphides are like underwater volcanos, in which heavy minerals are deposited, including rare earth elements like gold and platinum,” says Wakdikar.

Mission Mode
Deep Ocean Mission includes:
- Developing systems for deepsea mining, launching a manned submersible
- Deep-ocean eploration, including purchase of a vesselfor this
-Deep-ocean biodiversity studies, bio prospecting
- Establishing a research facility in Goa for marine biology and engineering
- Undertaking climate change surveys of seas around India
-Making ocean thermal energy conservation efficacious*
-*Generates power from the difference in temperatures on the surface of the sea and its depths


While the surveys of polymetallic nodules have been complete to a large extent and the development of technology for exploratory mining has begun, surveys of hydrothermal sulphides are still at an exploratory stage, says Ramadass. Under the Deep Ocean Mission, there are plans to acquire a dedicated vessel for this exploration, which could cost around Rs 900 crore, depending on the equipment. There are about 30 private and government contracts with the ISA for deep-sea exploration but mining is not allowed because the international code for it has yet to be announced. The plan to allow deep-sea mining has also come under criticism from environmental organisations that fear it might cause irreparable damage to the flora and fauna on ocean floor. Ramadass says they will have to prove that even exploratory mining won’t harm the environment.

Mission Mode
Image

The Deep Ocean Mission will also be examining the effect of climate change and warming on regional sea levels and assessing what impact that would have on coastal regions, which will be led by the Indian National Centre for Ocean Information Services. “It’s important that we do these climate change assessments now. Otherwise, we will not understand the local impact,” says director Srinivasa Kumar. Another project involves funding out if a pioneering effort by NIOT in setting up eco-friendly desalination plants in Lakshadweep — powered by using the difference in temperatures between the surface of the ocean and its depths — can be replicated in a coastal city like Chennai. “The plants use very little power and cause no pollution. But the challenge is that to reach 1,000 m depth from Chennai, you need to go very far from the coast, unlike on islands,” says Ramadass. Despite the daunting prospects, scientists working on the mission feel that India, surrounded by ocean on three sides, needs to develop technologies to explore it. “It’s tough. But unless we jump into the pool, how will we learn swimming? Similarly, unless we start going down (into the ocean), we can’t learn all these things,” says Rajeevan.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 10 Feb 2021 02:47

3d printed space rocket by private desi company Agnikul Aerospace



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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2021 03:53

SBajwa wrote:3d printed space rocket by private desi company Agnikul Aerospace

Corporate website ---> https://agnikul.in/

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 10 Feb 2021 03:53

So many private desi (space) start ups. Just Fabulous!

Going to start adding their names and corporate websites in the first post of this thread.

=============================

Added Later: First post of this thread has been updated. If any of you have any suggestions, please do let me know.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 10 Feb 2021 05:51

Indian space startup fires world’s first fully 3D printed rocket engine as others play catch up.

*Indian space startup Agnikul Cosmos has become the world’s first company to successfully test a fully 3D printed rocket engine.

*It only takes four days to produce and can carry payloads of upto 100 kilos into lower earth orbit (LEO).

*While the first company to be successful in such an endeavour, there are others who are fast catching up and realise the value of 3D printed engines versus conventional assembly.

Rocket engines are tough to build, and they’re even tougher to 3D print because all the details have to be ‘just right’ for the rocket to work successfully. But, an Indian space startup based out of Chennai has pulled off this mammothian task.
Agnikul Cosmos has successfully fired its higher stage semi-cryogenic rocket engine called Agnilet. “This entire engine, Agnilet, is just one piece of hardware from start to finish and has zero assembled parts,” said co-founder and CEO Srinath Ravichandran.



Normally, rocket engines have 100s of different parts that have to be built individually. This includes things like injectors which inject fuel into the engine, cooling channels that ensure the engine doesn’t overheat and the igniter which actually kindles propellants to push the rocket off the ground.

Agnilet, on the other hand, is a three-in-one solution. It takes all three of these modules and puts them into a single piece of hardware. There is no complex assembly and the turnaround time for the entire setup is less than four days.

The rocket engine is capable of carrying upto 100 kilos to low earth orbit (LEO), which is around 700 kilometers above the Earth’s surface. That’s only a fraction of what the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) is capable of and possibly only enough to carry a single satellite at most.

Agnikul may be the first to be successful, but it’s not alone

Agnikul was the first Indian space startup to enter into a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with the Department of Space (DoS) under the newly established Indian National Space Promotion and Authorisation Centre (IN-SPACe).

Image
Agnilet - Agnibaan’s higher stage semicryogenic engine

Another space startup that’s hot its heels is Hyderabad-based Skyroot Aerospace founded by former Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) scientists Pawan Kumar Chandana and Naga Bharath Daka. In September last year, they too revealed their fully 3D printer cryogenic rocket engine dubbed Dhawan-I.
Dhawan-I will be used to power the Vikram-II rocket, which Skyroot is also building from scratch.
Advertisement

The startup entered an NDA with the DoS earlier this month on February 2. They will be able to use ISRO’s test and launch facilities to test their Vikram-I rocket and eventually Dhawan-I as well.

The global space industry is expected to generate $1.1 trillion or more by 2040, according to Morgan Stanley — more than triple its current value of $350 billion. And, new space engine technology like 3D printed rocket engines are expected to play a big role in this explosion of value.

But even international players like Elon Musk’s SpaceX, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), Ursa Major and Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin are only 3D printing components for rocket engines. This means that putting together these engines and making sure they work is still a fairly complicated task.

The only US-based startup close to producing a fully 3D printed rocket engine is Firehawk Aerospace, and they only just raised the $2 million needed to start on their project.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 10 Feb 2021 10:54

I have been following Agnikul's work and spoken to a few of them over the last few years.
Kudos to them, it is a good achievement.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby A Nandy » 12 Feb 2021 21:32

India commits to sustained human presence in space
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 883574.cms
12 Feb 2021

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 18 Feb 2021 08:00

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 13344?s=20 ---> Dragonfly Aerospace has signed a contract for the development of high resolution EO imagers for Pixxel’s planned satellite constellation which will provide global coverage every 24 hours. The 1st satellite will be launched by the PSLV C-51 on 28 February 2021.

Image

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Rakesh » 19 Feb 2021 08:43

Another one, this time a Central Public Sector Enterprise, called New Space India Ltd.

Corporate website ---> https://www.nsilindia.co.in/

Space PSU NSIL to launch satellite for TataSky
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 081943.cms
18 Feb 2021

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby AshishA » 19 Feb 2021 11:09

How long will it take for India to build a rocket like spacex starship? Capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable after that?

Another question. How was a 1960s America able to build a Apollo rocket out of scratch in 10 years, while the nations of today are finding it difficult to build even half of that.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby kit » 19 Feb 2021 13:02

AshishA wrote:How long will it take for India to build a rocket like spacex starship? Capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable after that?

Another question. How was a 1960s America able to build a Apollo rocket out of scratch in 10 years, while the nations of today are finding it difficult to build even half of that.



National humungous effort ., mission mode., no money spared. India can do the same if not better if given the money !!.. i do not think there is a dearth of talent for any mission / technology., facilities maybe but we are getting there

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 19 Feb 2021 15:35

Only someone clueless about the tech situation in India could believe that we are 'getting there'.
People who don't grasp the vast scale and sophistication of the Western high tech manufacturing ecosystem.

America in the 1960s was a superpower with all the modern technology of the time. At it's peak NASA employed over 400,000 people. Not to mention 100,000s of others working in well established giant companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc.

Do you think we have anything like that? Don't be naive. ISRO employs about 15,000 people and its products are 50% indigenous at best. As for domestic aerospace/high tech manufacturing ecosystem, it is just barely getting started. Just blaming the "money" problem is not really understanding the issue here.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 19 Feb 2021 16:56

"Getting there" is about Atmanirbharta - being independent in finding our own solutions to our problems. It is not about global dominance but challenging the hegemony of others. We're growing as fast as we can organically grow. It could always be faster.

But your point about US base in 1960s is equally applicable when we try to compare the timeframe of our achievements to that of SpaceX. US always had a decentralised model and its corporates profited from access control due to tech-denial of various dual-use tech. We have now reached a critical mass that private sector role can only grow exponentially. We have seen in case of Tejas. We'll see the same with Space tech.

Glass is more than half-full!

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby venkat_kv » 20 Feb 2021 00:57

AshishA wrote:How long will it take for India to build a rocket like spacex starship? Capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable after that?

Another question. How was a 1960s America able to build a Apollo rocket out of scratch in 10 years, while the nations of today are finding it difficult to build even half of that.


I don't know how much time it might take, it will have a host of factors to come to fruition I suppose, the key to the most major one being the engine capacity to lift the space load.
As to how 1960s America was able to do it was a host of factors.
1. they had dollar take over as the de facto currency of the world. Could work without any extreme issues to economy.
2. had to compete with soviet union to reach not fall behind.
3. had german scientists work for them after the war (one of the most famous one being Vonbraun).
4. had a lot of failures with loss of life in some cases but that didn't stop it and kept pushing ahead. here we would have idots from humanities talking about how that money could have been used to uplift the poor.
5. they had ancillary industries to manufacture their components required for space engines/vehicles.
6. after reaching a critical mass they put restrictive treaties to stop the spread of technologies.

we have quite a few to learn from all this and we need to do a few of them if we are to achieve something similar in a similar time frame. money is one part of the equation only.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby nachiket » 20 Feb 2021 01:10

AshishA wrote:Another question. How was a 1960s America able to build a Apollo rocket out of scratch in 10 years, while the nations of today are finding it difficult to build even half of that.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/apollo-11- ... d-it-cost/

Between 1960 and 1973, NASA spent $28 billion developing the rockets, spacecraft and ground systems needed for what became the Apollo program. According to a recent analysis by the Planetary Society, that translates into an estimated $288.1 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 20 Feb 2021 01:32

Probably stating the obvious here, but...the US in the 20 th century didn't have the handicap of a foreign occupying power retarding it's development for decades on end. The US already had a huge industrial base before WW 2. India wasn't comparable.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 20 Feb 2021 01:32

The following article has year by year spending on NASA from 1958 to the article year, as a total figure and as fraction of budget:
NASA budgets and US spending on space travel

You can get great results when you spend 3-5% of the budget of the world's richest country on the space program. Even before Armstrong stepped on the moon, there was significant domestic opposition to NASA's budget, and in fact the Civil Rights Movement was opposed to NASA spending, asserting that there were more important priorities on the ground.

To a point, innovation can be executed on a shoestring budget, but there is is an intersect of three variables here and a point of inflection associated with how they relate. Budget and resource commitment is explicit, the other two relate to it:

Explicit
Budget and resources: expressed using X and Y Rupees / , where X < Y
Implicit
Time: expressed using M and N years , where M < N
Distance behind state of the art: expressed using F and G, where F < G
This expresses points along a continuous path of technological progression. If you choose a technological level to target and take M years to get to it, might miss out the technological gains in those years. The more time you take to accomplish this, the further behind you are.

1. spend Rs.X but take N years and your distance behind cutting edge is a greater G
2. spend Rs.Y and take M years and your distance behind cutting edge is a lesser F
One cannot spend Rs.X and aspire to getting it done in M years with only F distance . That is unobtanium.

Lean approaches can be applied in some cases but not others. For example education and training can be done cheap. But aspects of capex spending and R&D cannot. Without ramping up spending at those points, one falls further behind, and the more you fall behind, the worse off the costs of catch up R&D are.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby arvin » 20 Feb 2021 09:13

Our current capability stands at 10 tons to LEO with a 4 meter dia fairing on GSLV mk3 . Getting to 100 tons will require atleast 2 intermediate waypoints. Maybe 20 tons by end of 2030 using semi-cryo and 50 tons by 2040. This is all linear scaling and unless someone disruptive comes along in Indian aerospace scene optimistically we should see 100 tons by end of 2050. Right now there is no roadmap for this.
China and Russia have 100 ton program planned to be ready by 2030. That is too optimistic I think.
This is 3rd super heavy lift program by Russia after Buran and N1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_hea ... ch_vehicle

Ariane 6 is targeting a modest 21 tons to LEO in its next version. IMO that is the path we should follow and gradually scale up the lift capacity.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Mollick.R » 20 Feb 2021 12:51

Mangalyaan-2 will be an orbiter mission: ISRO chief K Sivan
PTI Last Updated: Feb 19, 2021, 08:50 PM IST

ISRO chief K Sivan said India's next mission to the Red Planet is likely to be an orbiter. He, however, did not provide an exact time frame for the mission -- Mangalyaan-2. The second mission to Mars will be undertaken only after the launch of Chandrayaan-3, he said.

Sivan said Mangalyaan-1 is "still working good" and sending data. "It is now planned to have the next orbiter mission around Mars for a future launch opportunity," according to the Announcement of Opportunities.
.
Asked whether the mission will be an orbiter or a rover, Sivan said, "Right now, we are thinking about the orbiter mission only. Rover, lander...we are at least not thinking in this process."

"Mangalyaan-2 will only be an orbiter mission," he said.

Mangalyaan-1 was launched in November 2013 and entered the Martian orbit in September 2014. Designed to work for six months, the mission is in its seventh year now.

Mangalyaan-1 or Mars Orbiter Mission was India's first endeavour to successfully reach another planet. The launch vehicle, spacecraft and ground segment cost Rs 450 crore, one of the cheapest missions to Mars so far.

The Mars orbiter has sent thousands of pictures totalling more than two terabytes.

ISRO has other major projects lined up. After the Mars Orbiter Mission's success, it also decided to explore Venus.

However, the immediate priorities of ISRO remain to be Chandrayaan-3 and Gaganyaan -- both projects have been delayed due to the coronavirus-induced lockdown.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/indias-next-mars-mission-likely-to-be-an-orbiter/articleshow/81111742.cms?utm_source=ETTopNews&utm_medium=HP&utm_campaign=TN&utm_content=23

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 21 Feb 2021 07:03

AshishA wrote:How long will it take for India to build a rocket like spacex starship? Capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable after that?


A question for you AshishA'ji. Why would you want a starship capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable?

Another question. How was a 1960s America able to build a Apollo rocket out of scratch in 10 years, while the nations of today are finding it difficult to build even half of that.


It was a space race and US needed to win it. Winning it meant win on the cold war. For a generation that came out of WW2 and Korean war, winning the space race became a matter of national pride.

Compared to that, here in India, anytime a EO satellite is launched to monitor cyclones and farm data., Dolts like Jean Druize set forth that India is a poor country only.

Coming back, can India launch 100 tons into space 10 years from now? The answer is yes. Question is, why would you want a launcher capable of launching 100 tons into space in a single go?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 21 Feb 2021 07:11

arvin wrote:Our current capability stands at 10 tons to LEO with a 4 meter dia fairing on GSLV mk3
.

Arvin'ji slight correction. The payload fairing diameter is 5 meter.

Ariane 6 is targeting a modest 21 tons to LEO in its next version. IMO that is the path we should follow and gradually scale up the lift capacity.


I totally agree on the gradual increase in payload lift capacity. It seems prudent.

Can posters' arguing for super-heavy launch vehicles provide a rationale (other than bigger is better?)

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby AshishA » 21 Feb 2021 11:29

disha wrote:
arvin wrote:Our current capability stands at 10 tons to LEO with a 4 meter dia fairing on GSLV mk3
.

Arvin'ji slight correction. The payload fairing diameter is 5 meter.

Ariane 6 is targeting a modest 21 tons to LEO in its next version. IMO that is the path we should follow and gradually scale up the lift capacity.


I totally agree on the gradual increase in payload lift capacity. It seems prudent.

Can posters' arguing for super-heavy launch vehicles provide a rationale (other than bigger is better?)

Tbh I think the main reason for such a large weight of the Apollo was for the human crew module. And I believe humans are ill suited to be in space. So its better to send robots which can perform operations far better than normal humans without utilizing additional resources or having some kind of a support infrastructure.

And from what I know, the Apollo program was a unsustainable project. As soon as they got to the moon, they scrapped the project. So as many posters said, we are better off if we gradually build our capacity instead of racing to get ahead. Gradual build up of space capabilities is far more sustainable.

But one question does come to my mind. Why do the US, SpaceX, China and Russia want to build superheavy launch vehicles and want to put men on moon?

What exactly are the benefits in putting men on moon? Is it because of the minerals or do they want to setup bases and claim the moon for themselves?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby chetonzz » 21 Feb 2021 14:12

AshishA wrote:
disha wrote:.

Arvin'ji slight correction. The payload fairing diameter is 5 meter.



I totally agree on the gradual increase in payload lift capacity. It seems prudent.

Can posters' arguing for super-heavy launch vehicles provide a rationale (other than bigger is better?)

Tbh I think the main reason for such a large weight of the Apollo was for the human crew module. And I believe humans are ill suited to be in space. So its better to send robots which can perform operations far better than normal humans without utilizing additional resources or having some kind of a support infrastructure.

And from what I know, the Apollo program was a unsustainable project. As soon as they got to the moon, they scrapped the project. So as many posters said, we are better off if we gradually build our capacity instead of racing to get ahead. Gradual build up of space capabilities is far more sustainable.

But one question does come to my mind. Why do the US, SpaceX, China and Russia want to build superheavy launch vehicles and want to put men on moon?

What exactly are the benefits in putting men on moon? Is it because of the minerals or do they want to setup bases and claim the moon for themselves?


Human colonization of the space is a matter of survival as a species!

human rated launchers tend to be bigger/safer and thus allows more payload capacity in case transformed into a robotic mission.

sending only robots to moon, mars and beyond doing "exploration" is very short sighted view of the same term.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 21 Feb 2021 20:26

disha wrote:A question for you AshishA'ji. Why would you want a starship capable of launching 100 tons into space and be reusable?

It was a space race and US needed to win it. Winning it meant win on the cold war. For a generation that came out of WW2 and Korean war, winning the space race became a matter of national pride.

Strange answer! It could be interpreted that you want to remain as a PSLV launcher forever. Scientific advancement is not just a matter of pride, it leads to industrial advancement and consequently upliftment of the masses. Posters have mentioned about the large employment bases developed through NASA creating a vast economic engine.

And then with the coming interstellar leap and exploration, do we want to be left behind? Is there a point to just send an orbiter for Mangalyan-2? Is that because of the limited lift capacity of current and upcoming launch vehicles?

Compared to that, here in India, anytime a EO satellite is launched to monitor cyclones and farm data., Dolts like Jean Druize set forth that India is a poor country only.

Merely by your mention you give importance to trolls. The important thing is to keep focused and keep advancements going.

Coming back, can India launch 100 tons into space 10 years from now? The answer is yes. Question is, why would you want a launcher capable of launching 100 tons into space in a single go?

Are you asking that to merely ask? Do you think there is no utility of heavy launchers? I can provide a list why but before that I want to know why you’re seemingly wanting India to remain a small satellite launcher.

We must take some risks and instead of taking 20 years to 100 tons, try to reduce to a more competitive, aggressive schedule. Throw our best and brightest at the problem and take it as a national challenge. We routinely throw billions at farmers, let’s throw 10-20 billion to leap ahead in space. Let’s pledge not to be the “sixth nation in the elite club” but target becoming number one.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby kit » 21 Feb 2021 22:20

looks like a re education on why heavy satellite launchers are required ; its not just the weight , but the size as well !!

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/nasa-knows/what-is-heavy-lift-launch-vehicle-58.html

Heavy lift launch vehicles can do things that other rockets cannot do. They can launch larger payloads into low Earth orbit. The Saturn V rocket, for example, launched an entire space station, Skylab, in one launch. The Saturn V could launch about 130 tons into Earth orbit. That's about as much weight as 10 school buses.

Heavy lift launch vehicles can also lift large satellites into higher orbits. These higher orbits can offer special benefits. For example, a satellite around 22,000 miles from the surface of Earth can be in geostationary orbit. In that orbit, the satellite orbits Earth once per day. As a result, it stays over the same point on Earth's surface. This is useful for communications satellites.

Heavy lift launch vehicles can also be used for missions to other worlds. The Saturn V rocket made it possible for people to land on the moon. That rocket could launch about 50 tons to the moon. That's about the same as four school buses. If humans are going to explore other worlds, a heavy lift launch vehicle could be used to make that possible.


ISRO organic mission plans include a permanent semi manned space station as well as planetary missions.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby AshishA » 22 Feb 2021 01:59

Vivek K wrote:.We must take some risks and instead of taking 20 years to 100 tons, try to reduce to a more competitive, aggressive schedule. Throw our best and brightest at the problem and take it as a national challenge. We routinely throw billions at farmers, let’s throw 10-20 billion to leap ahead in space. Let’s pledge not to be the “sixth nation in the elite club” but target becoming number one.

100% agree with this sentiment. I always used to wonder, why do we have to follow others in path to scientific development? Why can't we lead the way? Why can't we lead the innovation?
And the way to do it is to pick a very very difficult task and achieve it.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 22 Feb 2021 12:46

AshishA wrote:
Vivek K wrote:.We must take some risks and instead of taking 20 years to 100 tons, try to reduce to a more competitive, aggressive schedule. Throw our best and brightest at the problem and take it as a national challenge. We routinely throw billions at farmers, let’s throw 10-20 billion to leap ahead in space. Let’s pledge not to be the “sixth nation in the elite club” but target becoming number one.

100% agree with this sentiment. I always used to wonder, why do we have to follow others in path to scientific development? Why can't we lead the way? Why can't we lead the innovation?
And the way to do it is to pick a very very difficult task and achieve it.


If you don't know ABC can you write an essay?
I think you have to learn ABC first..

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 23 Feb 2021 19:51

Really? Glad we didn't tell that to the Americans and the Russians when they were going about developing monster rockets. No wonder we have "L"CA, "L"CH. Perhaps the reason Arjun is not getting the due orders/respect is because it is missing the "L" philosophy that is akin to India now?
With Aerodynamics of Mark III tested, they need to look at scaling up.
Or we can go for organic 50 year growth and then claim a "light/little" hole on Mars while US, China and others claim the rest of it.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 23 Feb 2021 19:58

I'm sure the Americans and Russians learnt ABC first. Perhaps that is why they could write the essay?
Hope you can get the analogy.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vips » 23 Feb 2021 20:13

To counter China, India's DSA begins scouting for star wars technology.

Nearly two years after India demonstrated its anti-satellite (ASAT) technology through ‘Mission Shakti’, the newly formed Defence Space Agency (DSA), a quiet dedicated organisation established to drive India’s counter-space activities has officially begun scouting for technologies to augment its capabilities to deal with threats in, and from space.

TOI has learnt reliably that the agency has requested proposals from multiple companies for technologies that provide complete SSA (space situational awareness) solutions which can detect, identify and track enemy assets while also warning about any impending attacks.

The DSA, the nod to form which under the ministry of defence (MoD) was granted in mid-2019, is a tri-services agency headed by air vice marshal SP Dharkar. Sources in the know told TOI that the agency had been talking with multiple space technology companies as early as last year, but it officially issued an RFI — to select companies — sometime in January 2021.

“Companies have time till the first week of March to respond to the RFI,” a source said, adding that the DSA is looking for a complete solution that can be enhanced to play an offensive role in the future.

The DSA is also looking for a system that can fuse space surveillance data available from various sources into a common operating picture (COP) so as to better evaluate threats and to maximise the effectiveness of Indian operations in space, land, sea and air domains.

From neighbourhood watch screenings to analysis and prediction of threats — from ASAT, space debris, DE (direct energy) weapons and RF (radio frequency) interference, the DSA’s requirements are specific. It is also looking to catalog space objects, acquire analysis tools for predictive assessment.

The move assumes importance given that China, notwithstanding its public stance, has been strengthening its military space capabilities by continuing to develop and acquire a variety of space capabilities designed to limit or prevent an adversary's use of space-based assets during crisis or conflict.

As reported by TOI in September 2020, the PLA continues to acquire and develop technologies including kinetic-kill missiles, ground-based lasers, and orbiting space robots, as well as expanding space surveillance capabilities, which can monitor objects in space within their field of view and enable actions.

According to a 200-page annual report to the US Congress prepared by the Department of Defence fnds, China is developing electronic warfare capabilities such as satellite jammers, offensive cyber capabilities and directed-energy weapons.

And, India appears to be lagging compared to its most apparent competitor, notwithstanding some commissioned project within the DRDO. It was in this background that the Centre created DSA.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 23 Feb 2021 22:52

csaurabh wrote:I'm sure the Americans and Russians learnt ABC first. Perhaps that is why they could write the essay?
Hope you can get the analogy.

Without belittling or disrespecting your accomplishments and difficulties, i would suggest that with a demonstrated capability with PSLVs and GSLV seris of launchers, two launch pads (or is it three) and a second site under discussion, the ABCs are learnt. Do clarify what you mean is missing though if something basic is still lacking. If there are components that India does not manufacture but buys off the shelf, that is an acceptable route.

Changing tack - Instead of attacking each other, why don't we discuss the missing pieces for building heavier rockets?

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby csaurabh » 24 Feb 2021 12:00

Vivek K wrote:Without belittling or disrespecting your accomplishments and difficulties, i would suggest that with a demonstrated capability with PSLVs and GSLV seris of launchers, two launch pads (or is it three) and a second site under discussion, the ABCs are learnt. Do clarify what you mean is missing though if something basic is still lacking. If there are components that India does not manufacture but buys off the shelf, that is an acceptable route.

Changing tack - Instead of attacking each other, why don't we discuss the missing pieces for building heavier rockets?


Well let us look at it from a broader perspective, what is the purpose of a nation having a space program? If you say the purpose is to launch X tons into orbit the only thing I can say is :lol: . It is a superficial and silly way to look at it. Rather, the benefits of a space program are realized in two ways: 'upstream' processes, ie. the technologies used for building the launch vehicles and satellites, and 'downstream' processes, where data or services from space are utilized for some activities on Earth.

First part: Upstream processes. The huge benefits of the space program are when the high-tech manufacturing technologies, facilities and products developed for building parts of launch vehicles and spacecrafts are then utilized for all kinds of commercial, industrial and scientific activities here on Earth. This a circular loop - once the technology has been developed and matured by the space research agency, it is transferred to a company for commercialization and then it becomes a customer of that company for that product while it moves on to other things. The company meanwhile uses this technology for other applications not only space. The net effect is like a turbocharging boost to the nation's industrial/manufacturing ecosystem sustained over decades, which has been observed in USA, Russia, China, etc. but not in India. The reason is twofold: firstly, ISRO doesn't develop its own manufacturing technology ( apart from a few exceptions ), preferring instead to import it from US, Germany, Japan, Russia, etc. (in which case, there is nothing to transfer ) and secondly, in the cases where ISRO does actually develop some technology or process, it doesn't have good mechanisms to transfer or share that knowledge with the Indian manufacturing ecosystem. The few cases you would have seen in news articles are exceptions and not the norm.

Let me give few examples here. We know that India doesn't manufacture its own ball bearings ( atleast not good quality ones ). But did you know that ISRO conducts quite a bit of research on hi-tech ball bearings that work in space environment! These things have really low friction on account of very fine coatings deposited by ALD processes ( all indigenous ). So we make the cool hi-tech ball bearings that work in space but then import the regular type of ball bearings for commercial industry. Obviously some communication barriers are in play here. Another example is camera technology. Many ISRO teams have been developing space grade camera systems for decades. But no commercial camera production is happening in India. When Indian drone makers need hyperspectral cameras for agricultural analysis, they import them from abroad, they don't use hyperspectral cameras developed by ISRO. The net effect is little contribution from ISRO to the greater industrial/scientific ecosystem of the country.

Second part: Downstream processes. While data from space would have been difficult to get in the past decades, that is no longer the case. Commercial data for remote sensing, navigation and communications are now readily available from global sources. These can be easily disbursed to the customers through the downstream companies ( in fact what is happening now in the startups which you can see in the news ), rather than relying on some obscure bureaucratic processes to get data out of ISRO. Same thing is happening in communications, not only with the old geostationary satellite systems ( like Viacom ) but with the new small satellite constellations like Starlink and Oneweb. ISRO's role as data provider is slowly being relegated to military applications and some govt departments only and one could easily argue that the average Indian has diddly squat use for it. There are also some scientific missions, which are again more for prestige reasons and not really a big contributor to global scientific research.

These are really the issues that need solving and I think the heavy launcher ideas doesn't do anything meaningful in that regard. Regarding, Elon Musk starship the real reason for its existence is that US military wanted a way to transport 60+ tons of cargo to anywhere in the world within 2 hours by suborbital flight, not some half-brained martian colonization plan. And while 100T to orbit might sound great but the US had already got there with the Saturn V rocket in the 1960s. And again that was driven by geo-political reasons of the cold war.
Edit: By no means is the above unique to ISRO. The same can be said of CSIR labs, DRDO, BARC, etc. And yes it is changing and let us hope for the best but change is always slow and difficult.

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Re: Indian Space Program: News & Discussion

Postby Vivek K » 24 Feb 2021 20:19

Csaurabh, great to see that the upstream and downstream processes are working fine. So what I gather from your post is that the ABCs are in place. I can understand that your focus on the immediate term and the shortcomings that you are facing. And in addition to your understanding, it is inferred from the results accomplished so far, ISRO seems to have its basics in place - we can question if they get an A or a B for their launch processes but they certainly have the ABCs for space launching.

Heavier rockets are vital 1) for commercial success in the space launch success and b) to accomplish missions like HSP, Interstellar exploration with adequate factor of safety. Instead of using small payloads and hoping all goes as per plan especially since ISRO has demonstrated the ability for robust repeat of established processes, it is time to expand the envelope. India must dream bigger and look to be a disruptor instead of looking to be safe in its 6th in the elite club rank.


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