Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

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Bala Vignesh
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

MaverickBharat reporting that IA has found some bugs with LUH, not sure how reliable or true the report is.
After granting IOC , Army suddenly found problems in LUH? Now more trials
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

This is well understood. The tail rotor has some vibrations. The issue was identified and post rectification the machine is already in trials as of this moment.

The whole process of discovery to rectification has taken under 3 months.

So not to worry. The orders should be placed in a short time ( for the MOD it can still take years)
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bharadwaj »

DDR reporting from the ACM's briefing that the LUH will be inducted soon in the IAF. So the Air force clearly does not have any issues. Issue must be specific to Army operations.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Livefist reporting that the new HULs are already in Ladakh for re-testing post rectification
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Bharadwaj wrote:DDR reporting from the ACM's briefing that the LUH will be inducted soon in the IAF. So the Air force clearly does not have any issues. Issue must be specific to Army operations.
Grand total of 6 LUHs! I will believe their support for the program when larger orders are placed.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bharadwaj »

Prem Kumar wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:DDR reporting from the ACM's briefing that the LUH will be inducted soon in the IAF. So the Air force clearly does not have any issues. Issue must be specific to Army operations.
Grand total of 6 LUHs! I will believe their support for the program when larger orders are placed.
Its a brand new program. I am sure the full 197 will be bought by both services when the bird settles down in service. Let us be patient.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Bharadwaj wrote:DDR reporting from the ACM's briefing that the LUH will be inducted soon in the IAF. So the Air force clearly does not have any issues. Issue must be specific to Army operations.
Wonder in what way IA exploits the platform beyond the IAF??
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 33153?s=20 ---> From the HAL stables in Leh. The Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) in Ladakh on a recent evaluation trials with extended TR. With the Initial Operation Clearance in her bag, the LUH is due to receive Final Operation Clearance (FOC).

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Great news!

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 03872?s=20 ---> First six Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) for the Air Force to be inducted soon: Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari on the eve of 89th IAF Day.

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Guys, the luh will be purchased by the 100s. Don't get too anxious about that. The machine achieved IOC inspite of the tail rotor vibrations.

That has now been fixed.

It will be the next Chetak.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by yensoy »

Prem Kumar wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:DDR reporting from the ACM's briefing that the LUH will be inducted soon in the IAF. So the Air force clearly does not have any issues. Issue must be specific to Army operations.
Grand total of 6 LUHs! I will believe their support for the program when larger orders are placed.
Were these paid for by IAF or merely free prototypes for testing/certification/feedback purposes provided by HAL?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ernest »

Even if it enters service next year, it will be one of the fastest aircraft to enter service. Its first flight was in September, 2016 as per wiki. 6 years is pretty fast in Indian military procurement
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

LUH are being tested in Ladakh for tail rotor upgrade.

The order for first six LUH choppers will be part of larger efforts,LUH number expected to increase exponentially after first order.

-Ankit
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by raghuk »

Pratyush wrote:Guys, the luh will be purchased by the 100s. Don't get too anxious about that. The machine achieved IOC inspite of the tail rotor vibrations.

That has now been fixed.

It will be the next Chetak.
All rotors vibrate, there were no problematic tail rotor vibrations. The TR blade was modified for additional thrust at high altitudes
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by basant »

That is very nice to hear sir. So the testing is for the modification?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Raghu,

The TR issue was generally reported as vibration. Thanks for correction.

Identification of TR thrust and quick resolution of the matter is a most welcome news.

My confidence in HAL helo division was already very high before this. It is now at stratospheric level.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by YashG »

I remember Indranil saying just how well our Helicopter program has come up ( I hope same happens with our LCA program). Indeed it has - LCH is a very wonderful fighting machine. ALH has scaled into a very safe helicopter & Dhruva variant is still very contemporary. Now even the transmission is sorted; Even turrki has bought one.

LUH will fill in an important basic role. Its the silverlining on indigenous program.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by fanne »

What turrki has just baught one? - What for? Reverse engineering? To help there ummah brother and it's Jijaji?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by chetak »

raghuk wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Guys, the luh will be purchased by the 100s. Don't get too anxious about that. The machine achieved IOC inspite of the tail rotor vibrations.

That has now been fixed.

It will be the next Chetak.
All rotors vibrate, there were no problematic tail rotor vibrations. The TR blade was modified for additional thrust at high altitudes

It is the harmonics that usually cause the problems.

Depending on which ones are dominant and adversely affects the systems, they have to be dampened out using judiciously placed ballast weights.

The main rotors can be dynamically balanced to run butter smooth. More art than science.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Indranil »

chetak wrote: It is the harmonics that usually cause the problems.

Depending on which ones are dominant and adversely affects the systems, they have to be dampened out using judiciously placed ballast weights.

The main rotors can be dynamically balanced to run butter smooth. More art than science.
Sirjee, Raghu has spent many days of his life doing exactly this.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

fanne wrote:What turrki has just baught one? - What for? Reverse engineering? To help there ummah brother and it's Jijaji?
For civilian use I believe.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by chetak »

Atmavik wrote:
fanne wrote:What turrki has just baught one? - What for? Reverse engineering? To help there ummah brother and it's Jijaji?
For civilian use I believe.
the turki MIC is more than capable of weaponizing it to suit their needs, should they decide to do it. Modify it faster and far more effectively than India could, one might add.

not suggesting that they are going to weaponize one single helo and use that to win WWIII

but there has to be a specific reason that they have bought one, especially when alternate platforms are more than easily available

The pakis will also have automatic access to this helo.

This platform also forms the bulk of our own battlefield tactical airlift, interdiction and support including battle field casualty evacuation
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by chetak »

Indranil wrote:
chetak wrote: It is the harmonics that usually cause the problems.

Depending on which ones are dominant and adversely affects the systems, they have to be dampened out using judiciously placed ballast weights.

The main rotors can be dynamically balanced to run butter smooth. More art than science.
Sirjee, Raghu has spent many days of his life doing exactly this.
Surely, not the only one on the forum, there are some others too, sirji

small deck operations at sea are far more brutal and demanding in terms of pilot workloads and leave very little room for vibrations and other distractions

IN Crews flying in these hazardous conditions are often not the most experienced so concerned people are always extra protective.

Sadly, not all non naval pilots understand the complexities of such operations

I have seen two civilian pilots operating to offshore drilling rig oil platforms make fatal mistakes in broad daylight in very good visibility conditions.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by putnanja »

From Twitter account of NorthernComd.IA @NorthernComd_IA
Lt Gen AK Suri, DG & Colonel Commandant Army Avation, visited Avation Squadrons in Leh & forward areas. He flew a test sortie in the Light Utility Helicopter & trials for the same have been successfully completed.
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Last edited by putnanja on 07 Oct 2021 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

If this is not a vote of confidence in the machine. Then I don't know what is.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by YashG »

chetak wrote:
Atmavik wrote:
For civilian use I believe.
the turki MIC is more than capable of weaponizing it to suit their needs, should they decide to do it. Modify it faster and far more effectively than India could, one might add.

not suggesting that they are going to weaponize one single helo and use that to win WWIII

but there has to be a specific reason that they have bought one, especially when alternate platforms are more than easily available

The pakis will also have automatic access to this helo.

This platform also forms the bulk of our own battlefield tactical airlift, interdiction and support including battle field casualty evacuation
This happened wayback in 2008 - for their health services. So has little significance now. I see turkish MIC as a good competitor to Indian MIC. Areas where they are good are - avionics (dont have an AESA yet but working on a GaN, good Opto-electronics systems), short range guided armamament( Shorads, Manpads ) & armed drone programs.

Also I'm jealous of the rocketsan, TAI logos. I wish desi companies had good logos :rotfl:
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

chetak wrote:
Indranil wrote: Sirjee, Raghu has spent many days of his life doing exactly this.
Surely, not the only one on the forum, there are some others too, sirji

small deck operations at sea are far more brutal and demanding in terms of pilot workloads and leave very little room for vibrations and other distractions

IN Crews flying in these hazardous conditions are often not the most experienced so concerned people are always extra protective.

Sadly, not all non naval pilots understand the complexities of such operations

I have seen two civilian pilots operating to offshore drilling rig oil platforms make fatal mistakes in broad daylight in very good visibility conditions.
I think IR meant that Raghu fixes these problems…He may or may not be a pilot …
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by chetak »

ks_sachin wrote:
chetak wrote:
Surely, not the only one on the forum, there are some others too, sirji

small deck operations at sea are far more brutal and demanding in terms of pilot workloads and leave very little room for vibrations and other distractions

IN Crews flying in these hazardous conditions are often not the most experienced so concerned people are always extra protective.

Sadly, not all non naval pilots understand the complexities of such operations

I have seen two civilian pilots operating to offshore drilling rig oil platforms make fatal mistakes in broad daylight in very good visibility conditions.
I think IR meant that Raghu fixes these problems…He may or may not be a pilot …
like I said, not the only one on the forum.

why is this point being belaboured

what is being fixed are mostly issues in the set up

on the design front, jack schitt was done and is being done

Invariably, when helos are delivered from after a PSU overhaul, they are so badly set up by experts "who have allegedly spent a life time" in handling such issues.

these helos have to be grounded for the better part of a day to re rig them to suit specific operators' field conditions as a basic requirement of flight safety.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bharadwaj »

Northern command has deleted the above tweet :( Hope the solution has worked and we don't have more trials next year. Edit :its back up :D
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bharadwaj »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 63623.html

First LUH military variant to make maiden test flight next August

“All trials on the four LUH prototypes are over. The last set of trials to establish LUH’s extra manoeuvrability concluded in Ladakh this week. The army and IAF wanted some changes and LUH performed much better than expected,” said a second official.
I think its time we tell our Russian friends that the kamov deal should be called of. I would rather we spend our friendship rubels on something which we cant make ourselves. Like more s400s.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

1) Folks chetak is reporting the issues that services face with blade vibrations.
2) Chetak please stick to the issue and not make remarks.

3) Raghu, So it's high altitude control authority for the helicopter that needed the larger diameter tail rotors?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

The Kamov deal will be off as they took too long to extract more funds from GOI.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by fanne »

can someone competent to comment - does KA-216 have any advantage over LUH (like 2 engines etc., does coaxial rotor bring any benefit at height?)
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Shubham »

ramana wrote:1) Folks chetak is reporting the issues that services face with blade vibrations.
2) Chetak please stick to the issue and not make remarks.

3) Raghu, So it's high altitude control authority for the helicopter that needed the larger diameter tail rotors?
I have to second what Chetakji is hinting at. He says that to sort out the design issues of TR thrust requirements at high altitude not much work was done.

Assuming issue all the way was TR thrust at high Altitude

In case during testing, it was found that TR didn't have adequate right rudder margins for the worst case scenario - While making approach, loaded to IGE limit and needing to carry out a go around from transition speeds or below, at the max desired density altitude.

It is here we want sufficient right rudder available plus some margin (say 10 %) for maybe adverse winds/faster than desired rate of coll raising etc

Now some fixes are to change tail rotor blade planform ( increase chord, span, etc ) but there has to be a deep and detailed analysis, not a quick fix else it endangers pilots and aircraft.

One example is what can be seen in one of the variant of Mi17 helicopter. IIRC to increase the thrust of Tail rotor, the quick fix of increase of chord length of TR blade of the variant was done ( so as take advantage of higher engine ratings of the variant more engine power need more anti torque). Sadly this quick fix eventually resulted in right rudder margin being reached quite early- at high altitude, high auw or in adverse winds. This has caused couple of crashes. Now all that can be done is indoctrination of pilots to look out signs of right rudder margin reaching and take suitable action. Other variants of same platform don't suffer same issues.

So long story short, I am eagerly looking forward to LUH sporting IAF and IA colors but due diligence on design part is required-not that I am implying it was not.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 98060?s=20 ---> AFAIK among other variants of LUH there will be a armed variant of LUH. I already posted infograph on reconnaissance and surveillance variant of LUH.

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

Procurement of 12 #LUH helicopters approved by DAC today.

https://twitter.com/neeraj_rajput/statu ... 73249?s=20

DAC clears 12 #LUH orders.

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/14 ... 12421?s=20

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

This was fast, almost immediately after the IOC certification from the services.

Based on the speed being displayed by the MOD over the last few years. I guess I should not really be surprised by it.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by jamwal »

12 LUH. Such a huge order. :rotfl:
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

HAL choppers get defence ministry nod in bid to replace Cheetah & Chetak, Kamov hangs in balance

The 12 helicopters, six each for the Army and the IAF, will be delivered in August 2022.


Snehesh Alex Philip 2 November, 2021

https://theprint.in/defence/hal-chopper ... ce/760653/
These 12 new choppers will come under a limited series production configuration.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the nod for 12 choppers, six each for the Army and the Indian Air Force, looks small but it is under limited series production.

“The first LUH will be delivered in August 2022 after which the forces will use them and will give their feedback and place further orders,” a source explained.

“The LUH has met all requirements of the armed forces as per what they sought. The production has already started at HAL’s new helicopter factory in Tumakuru in Karnataka,”
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Anujan »

The requirement is in the hundreds just for the IA and IAF. The requirement for IN and Coast Guard together is probably a hundred more (IIRC Navy has a RFI for ~25 LUHs)

Hopefully this is just the beginning to put the lid on imports.
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