Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

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Atmavik
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
Vicky
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Vicky »

Atmavik wrote:^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
Why would you need to do that? What will you gain? What's the gain from privatising a decently run profitable company? Privatisation for the sake of privatisation is not sensible. All of HAL's divisions work together - the rotary wing division is not standalone. The foundry, avionics, components, production management and QA are all common with their Aircraft and Tejas divisions.
Why would you destroy a profitable organisation by trying McKinsey style Leveraged buyout restructuring. Privatisation isn't always the answer - if you feel PSU HR, Public procurement and Vigilance policies are hampering HAL's agility then we need to think about whether those policies can be improved wihin the existing framework.

Also privatisation will destroy a high capex load company like HAL because it loses its sovereign guarantee it uses to get cheap loans which no non-oligarch Indian private investor will be able to manage to sustain. Such a company will end up falling into the hands of foreign investors who will turn it into a marketing/trading agency for existing wares. This downside to privatisation will exist till India stops running a current account deficit and fiscal deficit in an non reserve currency environment.

Privatisation of a complex high tech industry like aerospace is not like privatisation of a non-moat industry like banking, mining or insurance. Banking, Mining and insurance do not require much institutionally unique knowledge and most of their resources are their people who are local anyway and can't be outsourced to foreign countries. Aerospace isn't banking where anyone with a license can setup a shop and deliver a product overnight. If something goes wrong the govt can setup a new bank overnight or seize a refinery, for aerospace knowledge once lost will take multiple decades to redevelop or reacquire.

Please don't fall for unsystematic non objective thinking that blames PSUs for everything without considering the complex interplay of strategic, geopolitical, technological, financial and socio economic factors.

What you actually probably meant to say is HAL Rotary Wing Design team seems to be doing great work and how the rest of the Military Industrial complex can leverage that competence?

There is no straightforward answer to that.
Last edited by Vicky on 03 Nov 2021 01:29, edited 3 times in total.
sanjayc
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by sanjayc »

Why not transfer the drawings / know-how of Dhruv and other HAL-designed helicopters to a private consortium for exports? HCL can have 49% stake in that consortium.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Vicky »

sanjayc wrote:Why not transfer the drawings / know-how of Dhruv and other HAL-designed helicopters to a private consortium for exports? HCL can have 49% stake in that consortium.
How is it different from HAL exporting themselves? Which they are already doing to some extent. What will a private investor bring to the table that HAL can't do themselves?

HAL isn't seeing success with Dhruv exports because of multiple issues that aren't their sole fault.

For military export customers: Dhruv is a product of a country that has very limited foreign policy leverage to force others to buy it's equipment at full cost. The MEA won't be comfortable with expending it's political capital with potential customers to strong arm them into buying it because MEA has other non military strategic priorities of higher importance. Are you going to force Bangladesh or Malaysia or UAE to buy Dhruv in exchange for some favour? No, they are going to laugh you off and go to China and be angry with you a long time. Are you going ask France or Russia to buy Dhruv in exchange for us buying Rafale or P75I? They'll laugh you off because they both have their own local industry and have no favours to offer you.

Most potential customers who front their own cash see value in ordering helicopters from US, EU or China because it comes with geopolitical favours which India does not have the cash or bandwidth to offer.

Other customers who have no such qualms ask for generous financing to buy such equipment which India a country with high fiscal deficit and high interest rates is unable to do. Govt does this in some cases with countries it places high importance to with: Nepal, Maldives, Suriname, Guinea etc who are already HAL customers for Dhruv, Chetak and Dornier backed by GoI financing.

For civil export customers:
Dhruv is a sophisticated state of the art military first design which uses complex design techniques like a electronic vibration management system, hingeless rigid rotors, high power engine, high composite percentage for low weight, self sealing tanks to achieve its military objectives. Most of these sophisticated features are unnecessary in a civilian design and raise the cost of Civilian Dhruv compared to civilian first designs offered by well established civilian first companies like Bell or Airbus. HAL will need to build a civilian first helo design from scratch to satisfy these customers.

No private owner of Dhruv, LUH or IMRH will bring anything new to the table to change this.

If Maintenance, Support or MRO quality is a concern HAL can always outsource MRO sevices only to desi private or global private players instead. Airbus doesn't do its own MRO for helos in most countries - it outsources them to companies like RUAG, UTC. Same case with airliners. HAL with any owner can fix the MRO problem with a writ and doesn't require selling of the Dhruv or any other design.

HAL is not production capacity constrained, if they have customers they do have the cash to ramp up production to any scale. They can even do 1000 helicopters per year if they have orders with the capex cash they have. But there is no global market for 1000 helicopters per year.

TL DR: Dhruv exports are not viable for many factors and privatisation isn't going to change anything significant about that. Same problems apply to Tejas exports.

LUH is a more viable export candidate than Dhruv but the geopolitical and entrenched civilian manufacturers problems can't be resolved easily.

A second private manufacturer of the Dhruv won't change anything.

This is why Navy's argument for NUH for a second indigenous manufacturer for helicopters under strategic partnership mode is a load of crap being peddled to give Airbus a second door into the Indian market. TASL winnig C295 screwdrivergiri is the same. India is not a capital rich country or a big enough market to support multiple system integrator level manufacturers in the military or civil aerospace sector.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by nachiket »

ashishvikas wrote: Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the nod for 12 choppers, six each for the Army and the Indian Air Force, looks small but it is under limited series production.

“The first LUH will be delivered in August 2022 after which the forces will use them and will give their feedback and place further orders,” a source explained.

“The LUH has met all requirements of the armed forces as per what they sought. The production has already started at HAL’s new helicopter factory in Tumakuru in Karnataka,”
Amazing thinking here. They have tested it and it meets all requirements. So what feedback do they want to give now? Any feedback during regular usage can always be incorporated into later builds. That doesn't mean you have to give tiny orders, wait for them to be delivered and used and then order a few more. Where was this logic during the Ka-226 deal? Shouldn't they have ordered 12 first and then given feedback to Kamov?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by nachiket »

Atmavik wrote:^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
Private players cannot survive on piecemeal orders like this. If the MoD and forces are serious about developing private defence manufacturing capability they have to give out larger orders to local entities. Look at this and the ridiculous 24 rifle upgrade deal given to SSSDefence for which they had to compete and win a multi-vendor tender. Let HAL remain a PSU. At least it won't shut down because of this nonsense.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Vicky and nachiket thanks for the detailed response. I know it’s not a simple when it comes to defense psu but we have to start somewhere. I was thinking privatizing a part with good products would be easier. The company can be more profitable but looks like we are not there yet.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Vicky »

Atmavik wrote:Vicky and nachiket thanks for the detailed response. I know it’s not a simple when it comes to defense psu but we have to start somewhere. I was thinking privatizing a part with good products would be easier. The company can be more profitable but looks like we are not there yet.
It's unlikely to ever be economically viable to privatise HAL or many strategic defence sector industries. This is reflected in the trend of consolidation in the defence/aerospace associated sectors of all developed countries except the US. There is no guarantee of continuous order flow as budgets change with the geopolitical environment. The private defence industries have only been viable in 1 country i.e. USA due to it's massive oversized defence market.

No other major country has private defence sector manufacturers. For a few large countries that do, they are heavily subsidised which is the same as sinking money into them like a state owned company.

Let's take some examples.

Russia - Most are state owned but a few private ones exist but are always at the verge of bankruptcy and keep being rescued by the state.
China - All state owned
France - Most state owned directly or indirectly. Airbus is multi state owned and heavily subsidised. Same with Thales, Safran, Naval Group, Jeumont.
Japan - Mitsubishi and Kawasaki are heavily subsidised and their defence segment accounts are practically maintained by Japan MoD and they are private only in name not de-facto
Italy, Spain - All state owned
UK - Partly state owned and partly subsidised by access to US market and use of scammy at cost billing.

I frankly think all this clamour for privatisation of defence sector industry is a wasted effort instead of focusing on true reform because all these private companies will end up being consolidated into the public sector anyway when the next systemic crisis hits. These private companies will be viable for short term during the space when Indian economy and state budgets are growing rapidly but will immediately go in the black once that slows down.

Focus on structural reforms and R&D within DPSUs with a revolutionary zeal and don't chase these non-viable anathema of privatisation. Let the private sector develop organically and state should ensure that existing private companies are not disadvantaged by foreign competetion or misplaced policies or regulatory capture.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Vicky wrote:
Atmavik wrote:Vicky and nachiket thanks for the detailed response. I know it’s not a simple when it comes to defense psu but we have to start somewhere. I was thinking privatizing a part with good products would be easier. The company can be more profitable but looks like we are not there yet.
It's unlikely to ever be economically viable to privatise HAL or many strategic defence sector industries. This is reflected in the trend of consolidation in the defence/aerospace associated sectors of all developed countries except the US. There is no guarantee of continuous order flow as budgets change with the geopolitical environment. The private defence industries have only been viable in 1 country i.e. USA due to it's massive oversized defence market.

No other major country has private defence sector manufacturers. For a few large countries that do, they are heavily subsidised which is the same as sinking money into them like a state owned company.

Let's take some examples.

Russia - Most are state owned but a few private ones exist but are always at the verge of bankruptcy and keep being rescued by the state.
China - All state owned
France - Most state owned directly or indirectly. Airbus is multi state owned and heavily subsidised. Same with Thales, Safran, Naval Group, Jeumont.
Japan - Mitsubishi and Kawasaki are heavily subsidised and their defence segment accounts are practically maintained by Japan MoD and they are private only in name not de-facto
Italy, Spain - All state owned
UK - Partly state owned and partly subsidised by access to US market and use of scammy at cost billing.

I frankly think all this clamour for privatisation of defence sector industry is a wasted effort instead of focusing on true reform because all these private companies will end up being consolidated into the public sector anyway when the next systemic crisis hits. These private companies will be viable for short term during the space when Indian economy and state budgets are growing rapidly but will immediately go in the black once that slows down.

Focus on structural reforms and R&D within DPSUs with a revolutionary zeal and don't chase these non-viable anathema of privatisation. Let the private sector develop organically and state should ensure that existing private companies are not disadvantaged by foreign competetion or misplaced policies or regulatory capture.
Well played Sir!!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Atmavik wrote:^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
No.

But what I foresee taking place over the next 15 years would be for HAL to be the lead partner in a gigantic Air and space consortium with multiple other Pvt sector players, such as TATA airspace, Mahindra, L&T, Reliance, Ambani, VEM and many others.

This will be giant in every sense of the word. With presence in military and civilian aviation sector. With a full range of available solutions for customers.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by YashG »

Atmavik wrote:^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
rotary division can become a subsidiary of HAl with 85% HAl ownership, 15% can be sold to raise fresh capital from a company/consortium that can hard-sell HAL products in international markets. The setup stays the same but the rotary division can hire/retain critical HR, invest on marketing and maybe even more R&D.

Existing facilitie that rotary division may use can be made available on subsidiary pricing.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

Pratyush wrote:
Atmavik wrote:^^ HAL rotary division has done a fantastic job. Can this be spun off and privatized ?
No.

But what I foresee taking place over the next 15 years would be for HAL to be the lead partner in a gigantic Air and space consortium with multiple other Pvt sector players, such as TATA airspace, Mahindra, L&T, Reliance, Ambani, VEM and many others.

This will be giant in every sense of the word. With presence in military and civilian aviation sector. With a full range of available solutions for customers.
Only for this to happen is if the mammoth market of India is deployed, ordering 7, 12, 16 units at a time isn't going to cut it.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 15491?s=20 ---> DAC approves purchase of 12 HAL Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) and Lynx U2 fire control radars from BEL. MLU of Naval Dorniers also approved.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

Vicky wrote:....
Spot on another huge impediment to HAL cracking the civilian market is certifications- most of the world recognises FAA/EASA certifications, I believe HAL has been trying for the best part of a decade to get FAA certification of the ALH but to no luck. This is even an impediment to civilian sales in India as most insurance companies will be international and will want EASA/FAA certification to open a policy on the aircraft, similar story for financing.

Neither Europe nor the US has much incentive to provide their clearances to HAL anyway.

+ As ALH/LUH are designed from the start as military multi-crew helicopters they will not be cleared for SPO (single pilot operations). SPO is how the vast vast majority of civilian helicopters are flown for obvious reasons (cost).

The odds are heavily stacked against them and HAL would have to be very very aggressive in marketing/positioning themselves for such sales with local sales teams in every major market in the world but the barriers to entry are vast and existing players have long standing understanding and relationships. India is not particularly good at creating global brands that operate in foreign markets, it's a lot to ask from a PSUs.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

Atmavik wrote:Vicky and nachiket thanks for the detailed response. I know it’s not a simple when it comes to defense psu but we have to start somewhere. I was thinking privatizing a part with good products would be easier. The company can be more profitable but looks like we are not there yet.
Privatise HAL and then what? Indian armed forces will not give them upfront orders at scale to sustain themselves. Look at LCH and LUH, HAL has had to test, certify and even make them by themselves without a single penny or formal contract from the IA/IAF, no private company would do such a thing nor should they (it is against the interests of their shareholders).


LCH LSP are ready and even flying about but no contract, LUH is going into production with only a DAC approval (no contracts, no advanced payments), the same fate likely awaits HTT-40, LCA Mk.2 etc.



Plenty to grumble with HAL about in the past but today they are probably just what India needs, take away HAL and India has no credible aerospace industry worth much.


Conversely maybe if HAL was privatised the services would know they couldn't play the same games and would have to treat them like they treat their foreign OEM suppliers who expect payment on time and upfront to even turn a screw.


I'm becoming increasingly convinced that much of HAL's issues are more to do with their 'customers' than intrinsic to them.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Per Wolfpack Twitter handle, the IA has asked for the fast-tracking of Ka-226. If true, the less said about this request the better, considering that the DAC just cleared a (paltry) 12 LUHs, which also have IOC certification!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

Prem Kumar wrote:Per Wolfpack Twitter handle, the IA has asked for the fast-tracking of Ka-226. If true, the less said about this request the better, considering that the DAC just cleared a (paltry) 12 LUHs, which also have IOC certification!
It's funny that the closer these IDDM projects get to service the more rapid the clamour for imports becomes. ATAGS is setting world records and all of a sudden ATHOS is on the horizon and apparently a desperate requirement.

It's so brazen I don't know what to make of it or how the Indian civil leadership can tolerate it, but I guess they are not paying attention.


LUH will be ready for delivery in Aug 2022, even if the KA-226 deal was signed tomorrow (it won't be), it'll start to be delivered off the shelf in 2-3 years. That's what fast tracking means....?
Last edited by KSingh on 04 Nov 2021 00:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Sad! Like KSingh and others, India's military needs are not large enough for both foreign and Indian companies to operate in profitably. That is the reason that it has seen little private investment for 70 years. And the messaging is clear - the armed forces need to keep a foreign channel open for a) induct newer techs and b) allow them to get green cards for family.

This will have two effects - a) keep Indian power projection capability limited- in the next 15 years, even after paying a huge ransom and stacking up national debt, and b) India will not be able to overwhelm either Pakistan or China. Foreign vendors would like to keep the equation at "equal-equal" vis-a-vis Pak and barely defensive with China. And of course they want to keep Indian MIC as assembles of minor aircraft parts.

It is not for nothing that India is operating Mig-21s when they should be in museums and Jags when they've been retired by nearly everyone else.

The only way forward is to stop all imports and make world beaters at home. But the armed forces are adept at using emergencies to introduce imports.

There is no need for the Kamov. AN order for 100 LUHs should have been placed.

The LCA, Arjun, ALH, LCH were leap frog efforts to jump start the MIC. Their defeat is carefully and deliberately planned to keep the imported pipeline running.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by nachiket »

Prem Kumar wrote:Per Wolfpack Twitter handle, the IA has asked for the fast-tracking of Ka-226. If true, the less said about this request the better, considering that the DAC just cleared a (paltry) 12 LUHs, which also have IOC certification!
The funny part is the Ka-226 deal is between Rostec and HAL, with HAL itself supposed to manufacture the Ka-226. If HAL decides to back out of the deal citing the availability of the LUH and workshare issues with Rostec, the forces will be left holding the bag with no option but to request an order for the LUH in the hundreds. Will not happen of course, but one can dream.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

nachiket wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Per Wolfpack Twitter handle, the IA has asked for the fast-tracking of Ka-226. If true, the less said about this request the better, considering that the DAC just cleared a (paltry) 12 LUHs, which also have IOC certification!
The funny part is the Ka-226 deal is between Rostec and HAL, with HAL itself supposed to manufacture the Ka-226. If HAL decides to back out of the deal citing the availability of the LUH and workshare issues with Rostec, the forces will be left holding the bag with no option but to request an order for the LUH in the hundreds. Will not happen of course, but one can dream.
HAL will do what the GoI tells them to do. As this deal was commenced by the GoI via the GTG route under direct orders of the PM there's no chance of HAL doing that.


But it is an absurd situation, if HAL had a say in this or worked to a profit motive there's not way they would be sabotaging their own funded product (LUH) in such a manner.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by YashG »

It is time wolfpack's tweet are examined. His not quoting source leads to incorrect assessments.

As this news of IA fastracking K226 is old - Jun 2021
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-i ... le-2829792

So it has got do nothing with IOC. His tweeting without source makes it seem recent!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KiranM »

Did not find an online link but read in yesterday’s DH. HAL’s new helicopter production facility in Tumakuru can produce upto 30 units per year.
Sources also recommending ministry accord AoN at the earliest for additional 175 LUH.
If both happen that should address the Cheetah and Chetak EoL in few years, subject to budget. With new financial year in 5 months, hope this translates to reality.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Karan M »

YashG wrote:It is time wolfpack's tweet are examined. His not quoting source leads to incorrect assessments.

As this news of IA fastracking K226 is old - Jun 2021
https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-i ... le-2829792

So it has got do nothing with IOC. His tweeting without source makes it seem recent!
Yes I don't get why these ppl don't quote the source.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Because its bokwas and rumor kite flying.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by csaurabh »

Vicky wrote:
Atmavik wrote:Vicky and nachiket thanks for the detailed response. I know it’s not a simple when it comes to defense psu but we have to start somewhere. I was thinking privatizing a part with good products would be easier. The company can be more profitable but looks like we are not there yet.
It's unlikely to ever be economically viable to privatise HAL or many strategic defence sector industries. This is reflected in the trend of consolidation in the defence/aerospace associated sectors of all developed countries except the US. There is no guarantee of continuous order flow as budgets change with the geopolitical environment. The private defence industries have only been viable in 1 country i.e. USA due to it's massive oversized defence market.

No other major country has private defence sector manufacturers. For a few large countries that do, they are heavily subsidised which is the same as sinking money into them like a state owned company.

Let's take some examples.

Russia - Most are state owned but a few private ones exist but are always at the verge of bankruptcy and keep being rescued by the state.
China - All state owned
France - Most state owned directly or indirectly. Airbus is multi state owned and heavily subsidised. Same with Thales, Safran, Naval Group, Jeumont.
Japan - Mitsubishi and Kawasaki are heavily subsidised and their defence segment accounts are practically maintained by Japan MoD and they are private only in name not de-facto
Italy, Spain - All state owned
UK - Partly state owned and partly subsidised by access to US market and use of scammy at cost billing.

I frankly think all this clamour for privatisation of defence sector industry is a wasted effort instead of focusing on true reform because all these private companies will end up being consolidated into the public sector anyway when the next systemic crisis hits. These private companies will be viable for short term during the space when Indian economy and state budgets are growing rapidly but will immediately go in the black once that slows down.

Focus on structural reforms and R&D within DPSUs with a revolutionary zeal and don't chase these non-viable anathema of privatisation. Let the private sector develop organically and state should ensure that existing private companies are not disadvantaged by foreign competetion or misplaced policies or regulatory capture.
Well articulated. There is no reason for a govt to run airlines or hotels, there is every reason for the govt to run strategic industries like aerospace.
The govt sector DRDO and DPSUs will be the mainstay of Indian defense manufacturing and R&D for decades to come, lets be clear about that.
Frankly rather than 'privatization' we should focus on 'indigenization'. Increase indigenous content of the product and supporting infrastructure. That is where the private sector will play a crucial role.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

India to push back on $1 billion Russian helicopter deal

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... arebuttons
India won’t go ahead with building Russian helicopters locally under a $1 billion deal when President Vladimir Putin visits New Delhi next week, according to senior government officials with knowledge of the matter, complicating plans to modernize the world’s third largest military force.

Instead, there might be off-the-shelf purchases of some of the Ka-226T military choppers as the Indian Air Force needs to make immediate replacements to its fleet of over 320 aging helicopters.
Last edited by ashishvikas on 03 Dec 2021 18:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Very good news. Finally!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

That news article was a sight for sore eyes!!

Hope LUH wins and we limit Ka-226 to a handful of airframes, if at all
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

^^Hope it's max2max limited to 60 choppers were to be imported as per earlier plan.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Order more Mi17V5. We could use another 60 of those. Ka226 is useless. Been my argument for so long now, still stands. Where is been-a-dosaaa nowadays? He would get annoyed with it. :D or buy a nuck boat.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by SBajwa »

Ka226 deal with Russia has been canceled
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Cybaru »

clap clap clap!!! Hurray! LUH rules the skies! Indian aviation coming in strong! We are learning to protect our own industry finally if true!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Vicky wrote:
I frankly think all this clamour for privatisation of defence sector industry is a wasted effort ...
privatisation looks attractive because workforce of PSUs like OFB are lethargic and inefficient and probably sabotaged by maoist elements in their unions. For example:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7736&start=1320#p2525503
Thakur_B wrote:IA looks like a ragtag militia nowadays. Take any recent image of RR and you will see a different combination of BPJ, jacket, shirt, pants, boots, small arm, weapon sight, helmet and back pack. Much of the apparel is purchased by soldiers as the OFB produced clothing and boots are horrible.
Pratyush
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Wonderful news about the Russian Chopper. :mrgreen:

Way to go LUH. 8)
Prem Kumar
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

SBajwa wrote:Ka226 deal with Russia has been canceled
Any sources?
basant
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by basant »

India to Push Back on $1 Billion Russian Helicopter Deal
By Sudhi Ranjan Sen +Get Alerts
December 3, 2021, 4:15 PM GMT+5:30

India won’t go ahead with building Russian helicopters locally under a $1 billion deal when President Vladimir Putin visits New Delhi next week, according to senior government officials with knowledge of the matter, complicating plans to modernize the world’s third largest military force.

Instead, there might be off-the-shelf purchases of some of the Ka-226T military choppers as the Indian Air Force needs to make immediate replacements to its fleet of over 320 aging helicopters. The military is currently fortifying its western and northern borders as tensions with China fester.
...
HAL and India’s Ministry of Defence didn’t immediately comment. Russia’s state arms-export agency declined to comment immediately on possible deals ahead of the summit
...
kit
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by kit »

they are likey to get a sub lease deal not helos..
Rakesh
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Varun55484761/statu ... 92354?s=20 ---> LUH external cargo configuration. Which can carry 1000 Kg of load.

Image
Rakesh
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 88996?s=20 ---> Let me save everybody's time. The crux of the article is: "HAL is so bad that it should be asked to screwdriver together Ka-226T because LUH is not indigenous enough."

Avoid reading the article below. Just read the tweet above :)

The author of this lifafa piece is a former Defence Secretary of India. Slowly digest that fact.

View: India needs to move ahead with production of Kamov226T choppers
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 112940.cms
06 Dec 2021
ramana
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh We should discuss the arguments made in the above article for it reveals a lot.
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