Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

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Haridas
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Haridas »

YashG wrote: how is LUH_WSI substantially different than LCH or Rudra?

What niche will it fill ? Is it for exports, nations who need lowcost attack helis?
Single engine chopper that will be much more prolific and much higher operational ceiling (+ lower cost/flt_hour) then the heavier twin engined LCH / Rudra. Albiet lighter weapon load.
bharathp
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by bharathp »

also for low intensity ops which can take the load away from ALH/LCH

0.5 front or the red corridor types may get more active
north east

could also be used for training? this part I dunno how feasible - possible LIFT type for Helo?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by sanjayc »

^^ Even the ability to mount a machine gun and rocket pods will be good capability to be used in exigencies
SRajesh
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by SRajesh »

Could I ask another noob pooch:
such LUH-WSI:
1.Can they be used in COIN ops by BSF or COBRA
2. Any role in Coast Guard activities (either land based or on surface vessel)
3.ITBP ops
Haridas
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Haridas »

Rsatchi wrote:Could I ask another noob pooch:
such LUH-WSI:
1.Can they be used in COIN ops by BSF or COBRA
2. Any role in Coast Guard activities (either land based or on surface vessel)
3.ITBP ops
It's only a battle axe tool, tool usage limited by imagination.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

How hard would it be to build a drone chopper using the engine and rotors of the LUH?

Mating those to a smaller airframe to act as an unmanned scout and weapons counter part of the Apache and the LCH.

Sort of CATS warrior for helicopters.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Anujan »

NRUAV project was being pursued by HAL sometime back. Not sure what came of it.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:How hard would it be to build a drone chopper using the engine and rotors of the LUH?

Mating those to a smaller airframe to act as an unmanned scout and weapons counter part of the Apache and the LCH.

Sort of CATS warrior for helicopters.
There was a program of work in collaboration with the Israelis, I think. The platform that was being used as a test bed was our own Chetak helicopter.

I think the problem is not the platform but the the control laws for a helicopter based platform which can be tricky to say the least but Hari Nair Sir or deejay (Where is he) will be the definitive authority on this or Indranil perhaps.

But what value does an unmanned helicopter bring to the table that a UAV does not? Is the investment worth the benefits? I am not convinced.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by JTull »

I just don't get why control rules will be difficult in today's ML dominated world. I'll put a blackbox FDR to record all control inputs along with flight sensor data from daily manned operations. Then design control laws for a simulator using genetic programming. And then let ML take over in refining the laws. Within a year I'll guarantee 99% accuracy if I'm allowed to do this. Pretty much the route followed by driverless car developers.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

ks_sachin wrote: But what value does an unmanned helicopter bring to the table that a UAV does not? Is the investment worth the benefits? I am not convinced.
I am primarily thinking in terms of the capacity building for such a machine. The use case is something that I had not really thought through beyond the chopper counter part of CATS warrior.

Perhaps, it can be used to take out EW nodes.

Or one manned chopper or ground control hub acting as a control station for a whole bunch of such machines operating as a swarm. Taking out known enemy positions. Or even targets of opportunity.

A chopper without the cabin should be able to easily carry 4 ATGMs. Plus the guidance package.

Or a search and rescue machine that can operate in difficult terrain but not suffer payload limitations because the crew is not on board. ( But only in case of the target being able to move on their own)
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

JTull wrote:I just don't get why control rules will be difficult in today's ML dominated world. I'll put a blackbox FDR to record all control inputs along with flight sensor data from daily manned operations. Then design control laws for a simulator using genetic programming. And then let ML take over in refining the laws. Within a year I'll guarantee 99% accuracy if I'm allowed to do this. Pretty much the route followed by driverless car developers.
Perhaps you should pitch your idea to ADE or HAL. We down understand driverless as we have a huge popln and dont want to deprive drivers of their livelihood. Very dharmic..
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by JTull »

I won't get security clearance anymore. 25yrs on BR isn't enough for them ;)
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

JTull wrote:I just don't get why control rules will be difficult in today's ML dominated world. I'll put a blackbox FDR to record all control inputs along with flight sensor data from daily manned operations. Then design control laws for a simulator using genetic programming. And then let ML take over in refining the laws. Within a year I'll guarantee 99% accuracy if I'm allowed to do this. Pretty much the route followed by driverless car developers.
The issue was they were trying to create an unmanned version of the Chetak with its all analog flight controls. With the full digital flight control system on LUH the same issue won’t exist but the value of an unmanned LUH is limited, they may as well go for a clean sheet design that doesn’t need to sacrifice space/payload to accommodate crew. But such a system is more like a CATS warrior loyal wingman type product


There’s plenty of avenues HAL can go down if they have the autonomy, resources and expertise and these will only expand when/if they ancestors engines and gearbox IP in house and if the services stop treating them like the enemy.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

Vman Aviation to buy five light utility helicopter from Hindustan Aeronautics
Indian aircraft leasing company Vman Aviation Services on Monday signed an agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for five light utility helicopters. Vman is an Indian leasing service firm, based out of International Financial Services Centre (IFSC) at Gujarat's Gift City.

As part of the agreement, there is an option of buying five more.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 763777.cms
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by KSingh »

ashishvikas wrote:Vman Aviation to buy five light utility helicopter from Hindustan Aeronautics
Indian aircraft leasing company Vman Aviation Services on Monday signed an agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for five light utility helicopters. Vman is an Indian leasing service firm, based out of International Financial Services Centre (IFSC) at Gujarat's Gift City.

As part of the agreement, there is an option of buying five more.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 763777.cms
So happy to see this, pawan Hans already agreed to lease 5 LUH earlier this year also.

HAL must be ready to tap into the Indian civilian rotary sector which is set to boom in coming years and LUH is the perfect machine to bring to the market. Unlike with ALH HAL is actually pushing their civilian LUH from the start, not as an after thought.


+ gladly HAL is generating revenue streams away from the fickle and clueless Indian military procurement elephant.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by V_Raman »

this is awesome! air ambulance is a big market as well. some big hospital should build a helipad on their roof and start with LUH - atleast in metros to start with
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Manish_P »

V_Raman wrote:this is awesome! air ambulance is a big market as well. some big hospital should build a helipad on their roof and start with LUH - atleast in metros to start with
+1

There are so many opportunities. Logistics delivery is also there.

Pls. forgive the non-military post in this thread but check this article from Apr 2022 -
Indian helicopter market to grow 8-10 times in next five years
The government’s new drone policy and helicopter policy, announced last year, will help the Indian helicopter market grow its fleet around 8-10 times in the next five years, Amit Dutta, co-founder and managing director, BLADE India, told Moneycontrol in an interview.

He added that with the adoption of electric helicopters and urban air mobility drones in the industry, the cost of flying a helicopter is expected to fall considerably in the years to come, which will drive up demand for the segment.

BLADE India is one of the largest helicopter operators in India.

Dutta, who is also the head of the Confederation of Indian Industry’s panel on vertical aviation, said that they have identified around 40 routes in India that can be converted into dedicated helicopter corridors and had submitted their recommendations to the government earlier this month.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/159 ... dUPXjl4phQ ---> DG, ICG, V S Pathania, undertook his maiden sortie (45 minutes) in the indigenous LUH at HAL facilities in Bengaluru. He said that LUH is an excellent flying machine with state-of-art-technologies.

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has successfully rolled out the first batch of Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) in Limited Series Production (LSP)/Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) configuration for the Indian Army.

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/16 ... 0kEvA&s=19

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Awesome!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

PM Modi to inaugurate HAL's helicopter factory in Karnataka's Tumakuru on February 6

Initially, this factory will produce around 30 helicopters per year and can be enhanced to 60 and then 90 per year in a phased manner. The first LUH has been flight tested and is ready for unveiling, confirmed the defence ministry.

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/pm-m ... e-97601714
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Plan is to make 1000 helicopters per Prasar Bharati!!!
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

India’s Largest Military Helicopter Factory Kicks Off
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... kicks-off/
05 Feb 2023
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/mach1_avcrew/status ... R4Biz6FPsw ---> Introducing, LUH LSP-1 in Indian Army Livery!

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by nachiket »

Amazing. Need is immediate, development is complete, factory is built and ready and there are no orders. Meanwhile our pilots are still flying Cheetahs at Siachen. You have to truly wonder at what goes on in the heads of our decision makers that leads to such ridiculous results.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by nachiket »

naraswami wrote: Then they say INITIALLY it will be 30/yr... with no clear metric of when is INITIAL ? 2024 FY 2025 ? Then FINALLY at some point of time it will be 90. Either way anything in the 25-50 range is a respectable number once they meet it....LUH should be smooth sailing barring any surprise production issues (unknown unknowns)

For now all we know is 12 LSPs ordered...
So the total number of orders is 12. And you wish to know why the initial production capacity is only stated to be 30/yr and when exactly will it increase? Even that 30/yr is is meaningless unless orders justifying that capacity are actually placed. I'm sure people inside the MoD think like you do. Would explain a lot.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Folks , plz do read this excellent Thread by indranil on LUH, has a reply from Wing Co Unni Pillai and a paper by Group Captain Hari Nair saab .

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 1973771264
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote:India’s Largest Military Helicopter Factory Kicks Off
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... kicks-off/
05 Feb 2023

Finally we see qty production of airframes.

A long-awaited moment.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Cyrano »

I noticed the offset of tail stabilisers to one side and exhaust vent to the other from the read end pic of LUH and just thought it could be distortion due to hot exhaust or my eyes playing tricks. There are some interesting reasons after all ! Great to see such innovation bearing fruit. Well done LUH team !
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Kersi »

Atmavik wrote:Folks , plz do read this excellent Thread by indranil on LUH, has a reply from Wing Co Unni Pillai and a paper by Group Captain Hari Nair saab .

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 1973771264
SUPERB WRITE-UP
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Atmavik wrote:Folks , plz do read this excellent Thread by indranil on LUH, has a reply from Wing Co Unni Pillai and a paper by Group Captain Hari Nair saab .

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... 1973771264
Definitely going on Page 1 of this thread. Thank you Atmavik-ji.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

naraswami, Being skeptical is fine but not cynical.
The later induces trolling. So be on notice. Don't push it.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Final Flight display of wing Co Unni Pillai , he is retiring next month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oypPNsltmXo

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Helicopter formation , looks like LUH will be Named BHIM, Jai Bhim .. Jai Bharat

PS: I hope Govt privatizes DD. The propensity to show VIP over aircraft is maddening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxM15YnBsxI

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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rahul M »

Forget VIPs, during gurukul formation they showed the viewing stand from a distance and at the end a fleeting glance of the formation at one corner of the screen. :evil:
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Rahul M wrote:Forget VIPs, during gurukul formation they showed the viewing stand from a distance and at the end a fleeting glance of the formation at one corner of the screen. :evil:
Wish DD knew that the Air Chief was in the LCA.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Army Plans To Procure These India-Made Helicopters To Replace Ageing Fleet
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/army-pl ... et-3782642
14 Feb 2023
The Army is looking at procuring the LUHs and LCHs to replace its ageing fleets of Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Bharadwaj »

LUH Steals the Show at Aero India 2023; Army, IAF To Get 12 Units This Year
https://www.news18.com/news/india/luh-s ... 85215.html
Srinivasa Rao, the Project Leader of LUH, said, “We have incorporated the autopilot mode, and testing for it is almost complete. We have tested it in Siachen and at other places. The production units for both the Army and Airforce are in progress, and we intend to deliver them expeditiously."
Based on other reports doing the rounds in the media, the autopilot integration appears to be the hold up for deliveries...

Begs the question - does the chetak and cheetah have an autopilot?
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Re: Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by sanjayc »

Can't this be integrated once the helicopter is in service? Why hold up deliveries for something that is peripheral? Even without autopilot, the machine will be million times better and safer than the fossils being flown currently
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