Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

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Pratyush
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Rakesh wrote:I don't understand Point 5. IMRH and AH-64 Apache are not even in the same league.

https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/147 ... 45257?s=20 --->

Let's clarify some doubts regarding IMRH:

5) 'Currently' no plans to make Apache equivalent
Point no 5 is addressing a post I made in which I was seeking an Apache equivalent to be developed from the mechanical components of the IMRH in parallel with the basic machine.

Like it was done for LCH.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh and Pratyush, the recent Business Standard interview with R. Madhahavan of HAL shows there are plans to weaponize the IMHR later. The LCH production versions will be armed too.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Rakesh and Pratyush, the recent Business Standard interview with R. Madhahavan of HAL shows there are plans to weaponize the IMHR later. The LCH production versions will be armed too.
Ramana-ji, I was puzzled with Point 5 because IMRH is a 10 - 12 ton helicopter. The AH-64 Apache is around 8+ tons if I am not mistaken.

Apart from the tonnage difference, one is a multi-role helicopter while the Apache serves just one purpose. I was puzzled with the wording, but Pratyush's post above makes sense.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Rakesh/ Ramana,

The Mi 28, Mi24/25/35, ROOIVALK and the cobra have all followed the same basic approach.

Build an attack chopper counterpart to the basic utility helo.

ALH and the LCH.

South African ROOIVALK was designed using the mechanical components of the European Puma.

So the IMRH having an Attack Chopper counterpart is not really a huge leap forward.

But for this to take place. It is necessary for the IMRH to be designed to perfection.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by John »

Rakesh wrote:
ramana wrote:Rakesh and Pratyush, the recent Business Standard interview with R. Madhahavan of HAL shows there are plans to weaponize the IMHR later. The LCH production versions will be armed too.
Ramana-ji, I was puzzled with Point 5 because IMRH is a 10 - 12 ton helicopter. The AH-64 Apache is around 8+ tons if I am not mistaken.

Apart from the tonnage difference, one is a multi-role helicopter while the Apache serves just one purpose. I was puzzled with the wording, but Pratyush's post above makes sense.
I believe weaponization might just be mounting some rocket systems similar to Mi-17s. I really don’t see another attack helicopter being developed (LCH could very well be one last helicopters) they are dying breed as drones have started to replace them.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 71360?s=20 ---> Report: In addition to jet engine for AMCA, France's Safran also in talks with HAL for joint development of a turboshaft engine for HAL IMRH helicopters, which will eventually replace IAF Mi-17s.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by asbchakri »

It looks like they are also planning for an attack variant in the same class as the Apache.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Given the point made by HAL boss regarding their being no plans for Apache equivalent.

I am not sure where they are getting this input.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 71360?s=20 ---> Report: In addition to jet engine for AMCA, France's Safran also in talks with HAL for joint development of a turboshaft engine for HAL IMRH helicopters, which will eventually replace IAF Mi-17s.
good news and probably win-win.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

French firm & HAL in talks to make new indigenous chopper engine, power ‘Make in India’ push
https://theprint.in/defence/french-firm ... sh/784178/
20 Dec 2021
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by sankum »

https://mobile.twitter.com/ReviewVayu/s ... 2885[quote]. Conversation
Vayu Aerospace Review
@ReviewVayu
Admiral R Hari Kumar, CNS, Indian Navy: HAL had submitted a proposal for Design/Development of a Tri-Service IMRH in the Medium Lift category. The Navy conveyed its decision to support HAL’s indigenous project with 19 Naval Spl-Ops & 41 Multi-role helicopters in March'21 [/quote]

Of 123 nos NMRH requirement 66 were asw version , 33 special ops and 24 utility.

Only 60 naval IMRH of which 41 asw and 19 special ops to be ordered.

Remaining 25 asw and 14 special ops helicopter for a total of 39 nos will be likely combination of MH-60 R/S and naval alh.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by John »

Pratyush wrote:Given the point made by HAL boss regarding their being no plans for Apache equivalent.

I am not sure where they are getting this input.
These YouTube videos and tweets from enthusiasts are just people throwing out random guesses and hoping they are right people need to stop treating them seriously. As I said earlier plans to weaponize are simply plans to mount rocket pods similar to Mi-17 nothing more no one is gonna develop an Apache equivalent so they can indict it in 2030s..
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

The program is coming along nicely.

Navy commits to procure 60 naval Indian multirole helicopters
https://idrw.org/navy-commits-to-procur ... pter-imrh/
01 January 2022
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 62885?s=20 ---> Admiral R Hari Kumar, CNS, Indian Navy: HAL had submitted a proposal for Design/Development of a Tri-Service IMRH in the Medium Lift category. The Navy conveyed its decision to support HAL’s indigenous project with 19 Naval Special-Operations & 41 multi-role helicopters in March 2021.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 21761?s=20 ---> Admiral R Hari Kumar, CNS Indian Navy: HAL has proposed 3 separate variants for IMRH, viz. Special Ops, Anti Surface Warfare + Anti-Submarine Warfare, & we have asked them to submit a fresh PPR for development of a common multi-role helicopter with both ASW & ASuW capability.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 24645?s=20 ---> Admiral R Hari Kumar, Chief of the Naval Staff, Indian Navy: HAL has indicated that it would be able to meet Indian Navy’s requirement of common ASW/ASuW platform and that the fresh PPR would be submitted shortly.

https://twitter.com/i_m_satwikk/status/ ... 38758?s=20 ---> IMRH For Navy.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Avinandan »

Why don't the designers fatten the cabin size and merge with the external landing gear cowl. I guess it would be aerodynamically optimal as well. This would aid in loading up bulkier cargoes.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Prasar Bharti release about the IMRH. It's talking about saving 4,00,000 crores of saving. Over 500 helo have to be built starting 2032.

India's IMRH Project: Uplifting The Indigenisation
https://idrw.org/indias-imrh-project-up ... %ef%bf%bc/
19 April 2022
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Starting 2032? As per the article IMRH will start entering Service in 2027 and will replace all MI 17s by 2032
ernest
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ernest »

Aditya_V wrote:Starting 2032? As per the article IMRH will start entering Service in 2027 and will replace all MI 17s by 2032

LUH took 5-6 years from first flight to induction and LSP. IMRH will likely take a couple of years more. If the first flight happens in 2024-25, then induction is likely to begin 2031-32.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Avinandan wrote:Why don't the designers fatten the cabin size and merge with the external landing gear cowl. I guess it would be aerodynamically optimal as well. This would aid in loading up bulkier cargoes.
Sir this comment is a bit like the LCA refuelling probe is not positioned well and looks flimsy. I suggest you duck and weave right now….
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Aditya_V wrote:Starting 2032? As per the article IMRH will start entering Service in 2027 and will replace all MI 17s by 2032
I doubt that India can produce 80 such machines per year for that to happen. Besides the late model Mi17 fleet should have plenty of life in them. For them to be discarded before reaching end of life.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by basant »

I doubt if 80 per year is required if (I am assuming here) the procurement itself was not done at the same rate. Production rate should not be a problem if enough funds are made available. Would we even be able to have required number of pilots trained for the role?
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

30 choppers per year is quite reasonable production run. At that rate the entire Mi17 fleet can be replaced in 13 years. Give or take a few months.

Because I am assuming that India will be having multiple lines for seperate designs running concurrently. ALH, LUH, LCH, IMRH. Between the four, Indian would easily be producing close to 200 machines per annum for a considerable period of time.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:30 choppers per year is quite reasonable production run. At that rate the entire Mi17 fleet can be replaced in 13 years. Give or take a few months.

Because I am assuming that India will be having multiple lines for seperate designs running concurrently. ALH, LUH, LCH, IMRH. Between the four, Indian would easily be producing close to 200 machines per annum for a considerable period of time.
Money?

If Mi17 frames have life left they should be kept in service. Start low rate prod of IMRH as forces induct and bed down new platform and op feedback is obtained to go from MK1 to MK2.

So even a rate less than 30 initially is ok.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Again I am assuming that by the time the IMRH is perfected India will be having a much larger economy. Capable of sustaining a larger defense budget in real terms.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush wrote:Again I am assuming that by the time the IMRH is perfected India will be having a much larger economy. Capable of sustaining a larger defense budget in real terms.
There is a need to see how we can get existing level of funding to work properly. The ways monies are spent and the wage bill etc needs serious consideration. A self inflicted wound if there was one.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Pratyush »

ks_sachin wrote: There is a need to see how we can get existing level of funding to work properly. The ways monies are spent and the wage bill etc needs serious consideration. A self inflicted wound if there was one.
This is concern with me as well. Every time someone tells me that we are spending such a low amount as a % of GDP. I tell them that the problem is waste full expenditure in defense.

Once we move beyond the screwdriver giri. I expect that Indian defense expenditure will stop being so waste full. At least in terms of capex on equipment that is genuinely made in India.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

Defence ministry to allow private companies to develop military helicopters
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 19093.html
The Defence Ministry has decided to amend the DAP rules to allow private defence companies to collaborate with Indian Defence PSUs with a majority stake and produce required weapon systems.

In a major push to “Atmanirbhar Bharat” in military hardware sector, the Defence Ministry has decided to amend the Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) manual to allow private sector to collaborate with an Indian Defence PSUs with a majority stake and manufacture the required weapon system.

According to South Block officials, this collaboration will be tested in the development and manufacture of Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH), which will ultimately replace all Russian built Mi-17 and Mi-8 helicopters in the Indian military’s present inventory. The IMRH will have a 13 tons take-off weight and will perform with the Indian armed forces in air assault, air attack, anti-submarine, anti-ship, military transport and VVIP roles.

It is understood that Indian private sector companies have already shown their eagerness to participate in the project with the Defence Ministry telling them to start manufacturing in the next seven years. The French Safran has already signed an MoU with Indian HAL on July 8, 2022, to form a new joint venture company to develop, produce and support the IMRH engine including the naval variant.

According to officials, the private sector companies will also be allowed to export 25 per cent of their production to third countries and generate foreign exchange for the country. The Indian Armed Forces has been told to purchase the developed IMRH which is stipulated to roll out in next seven years. The private sector companies have also sought an assurance from the Defence Ministry that the Indian armed forces should purchase the helicopter if the product is manufactured in the next five years by advancing timelines and saving money and man-hours.

The decision to allow the private sector to acquire 51 per cent stake and form a joint venture with Indian PSUs was taken as the latter were not being able to deliver in required time leading to cost overruns. This delay was leaving the Modi government with no options but to purchase the much-required machines via the tender or government-to-government route from other countries.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ashishvikas »

By Harshal Pal:

IMRH in ASW/AShW role for the Navy.

https://twitter.com/HarshalPal5/status/ ... oKV2sKcpAQ

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by ragupta »

Looks nice, hope to see it in production in my lifetime.
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

ragupta wrote:Looks nice, hope to see it in production in my lifetime.
Insha a….
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Kersi
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Kersi »

Can it land on all major IN vessels ? Seaking was a 10 MT helicopter
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by titash »

I hope it has the required hardpoints to carry 4 torpedoes or 4 depth charges. Persistence is important in ASW and while the SeaKing could carry 4, the SeaHawk and possibly IMRH look like they only have 2 hardpoints in the naval version
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Coast Guard asks HAL to develop a customized variant of IMRH
https://www.theigmp.org/2022/11/indian- ... -imrh.html
28 Nov 2022

Aero India – 2023: HAL to roll out prototype of first indigenously built multirole helicopter in four years
https://www.indiasentinels.com/defence- ... years-5685
13 Feb 2023
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/guarding_valley/sta ... 90336?s=20 ---> Safran Helicopter Engines and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) have signed a workshare agreement for the joint development of the engine intended for the future 13-ton IMRH (Indian Multi-Role Helicopter) and its naval version, DBMRH (Deck Based Multi-Role Helicopter).

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https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 52192?s=20 ---> Important update on Safran/HAL partnership for IMRH engine intended for future 13-ton IMRH (Indian Multi-Role Helicopter) + naval version DBMRH (Deck Based Multi-Role Helicopter):

HAL to take part in design, develop/production of some core engine components and Both partners agree on condition for transfer right to HAL for manufacturing 7 critical forging/casting raw parts for further enhancement of indigenous content in Shakti engine of Dhruv & LCH programs; a breakthrough in terms of expertise/know-how in India.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Tanmaycoolkarni/sta ... 30625?s=20 ---> After LCH, all eyes on development of indigenous medium lift Indian Multi Role Helicopter (IMRH). HAL to speed up the development program of IMRH, which will replace the fleet of the IAF’s workhorse (Mi-17) and other helicopters in the category.

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Atmavik »

https://twitter.com/BharatForgeLtd/stat ... PnupEtAAAA

I wonder if these rotor blades are for IMRH
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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SafranHCEngines/sta ... 29056?s=20 ---> @SafranHCEngines and @HALHQBLR have decided to set up their new joint venture company in Bangalore, India. It will be dedicated to new helicopter engines, with first objective - a propulsion solution - for the Indian 13-ton IMRH helicopter.

Safran and HAL to form joint venture company to co-design and produce new generation helicopter engines in India
https://www.safran-group.com/pressroom/ ... cd46ede96f
14 July 2023

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Re: Indian Multi-Role Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 17249?s=20 ---> Safran & HAL to form joint venture company to co-design/produce new generation helicopter engines in India. First objective to build a propulsion solution for the HAL's future 13-ton IMRH (Indian Multi-Role Helicopter) & its naval version DBMRH (Deck Based Multi-Role Helicopter).

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 93542?s=20 ---> This JV will be India’s first engine design & manufacturing in house. The decision was achieved thanks to dynamic common work cycle between the 2 companies, following an MoU signed on 8 July 2022 plus an agreement on workshare reached between the partners during Aero India '23.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/168 ... 82848?s=20 ---> The new HAL-SAFRAN JV will be incorporated in Karnataka and begin work this year on the IMRH helicopter engine.

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