Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Barath
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Barath »

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-03/

The 80 Rafale will likely replace UAE's Mirage fleet, which was upgraded (or at least agreed to be upgraded) recently.

Chance for India to buy UAE Mirages on the cheap to augment falling squadron strength ? Another 60 Mirages could be a useful piece in any alternate plan to the IAF idea to go for MMRCA 2.0
Last edited by Barath on 03 Dec 2021 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
Karan M
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

We will face a challenge maintaining them to begin with. We are literally buying used airframes from France to maintain our existing 50 Mirages. The best approach is to buy the Rafale and bulk up on the Tejas. Buying out of production fighters is setting ourselves up for a challenge down the road.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Barath »

Karan M wrote:We will face a challenge maintaining them to begin with. We are literally buying used airframes from France to maintain our existing 50 Mirages. The best approach is to buy the Rafale and bulk up on the Tejas. Buying out of production fighters is setting ourselves up for a challenge down the road.
I'm suggesting buy Mirage and bulk up on Tejas as a substitute for buying 114 Rafale (or at least to reduce those numbers). The critical period is the 2030s when a lot of aircraft are retiring and having an extra squadron of Mig 29s and an extra squadron or two of Mirages could help. After that, continue on Tejas Mk2

Even the French Air Force is upgrading and flying its Mirages. 59 Mirages from the UAE fleet are between 16 and 31 years old. Retire the latter and keep the former flying. ..We're buying used airframes as they are potentially cheaper than buying 'new' spare parts ... $25m for all those airframes is less than the cost of a single plane upgrade. And improving availability of existing Mirages is as good as getting new planes.

edit: bulk up on tejas is more probably tejas Mk2. Thus the greater need for some stop gap while you ramp up and keep churning those out.
Last edited by Barath on 03 Dec 2021 21:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

The window for additional Tejas Mk1As (as much as I would like to see it) remains closed with the 83 Mk1A order.

The only possibility lies in the MWF - the Tejas Mk2.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

80 Rafales mean even if we order - IAF rafales will arrive late, very late defeating the purpose of beefing up the squadron numbers quickly. IAF must be knowing this deal pipeline - so I guess they have built into their plans the delay due to UAE/Egypt deals.

It means even Mk2 has a better chance of adding numbers & Mk2 will be great plane.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

YashG wrote:80 Rafales mean even if we order - IAF rafales will arrive late, very late defeating the purpose of beefing up the squadron numbers quickly. IAF must be knowing this deal pipeline - so I guess they have built into their plans the delay due to UAE/Egypt deals.

It means even Mk2 has a better chance of adding numbers & Mk2 will be great plane.
Please see my reply to this ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7266&p=2525610#p2525610
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Rakesh wrote:
YashG wrote:80 Rafales mean even if we order - IAF rafales will arrive late, very late defeating the purpose of beefing up the squadron numbers quickly. IAF must be knowing this deal pipeline - so I guess they have built into their plans the delay due to UAE/Egypt deals.

It means even Mk2 has a better chance of adding numbers & Mk2 will be great plane.
Please see my reply to this ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7266&p=2525610#p2525610
thanks
Also
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-12-03/
The first French warplanes will be delivered from 2027
Shares in Dassault Aviation SA , the Rafale's maker, rose more than 9%.
How LCH purchase can be funded.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ldev »

Rudram needs to be integrated with the Rafale. It will be a much more lethal delivery platform for SEAD/DEAD missions rather than the SU-30 on which Rudram has been tested. The combination of a native rcs of ~1.00-1.2 m^2 plus Spectra should enable it approach to ~100 km or even less from an S400 radar before burn through, well within the Rudram range from the right altitude. The French will charge an arm and a leg for this but IMO it will be well worth it for the IAF.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Even assuming a 1 sq mtr RCS while carrying a Rudra M, a S-400 can target it at around 180 km. Plus the ISE likely already includes Kh-31 compatibility per earlier reports. That's around the 90km range already, but the Rafale may have to count on a lo-lo-lo delivery profile reducing the range. Hopefully the NGARM was also included. Per se, not a bad idea but it will take effort and money.

The Su-30 can carry Rudrams of various kinds and the baseline RudraM has a range in the 200 km class anyhow. Plus we can keep adding our own EW to it, something we can't do with Rafale. As a SEAD/DEAD effort platform it has far more growth potential because of the fact we have the flexibility to add what we want. A Su-30 can carry a mixed package of Rudrams (1/2/3), SAAW and various EW suites. The Rafale is limited to Spectra (which while capable is a SPJ) and its additional low band jammer. The towed decoy is useful though.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Barath wrote:
Karan M wrote:We will face a challenge maintaining them to begin with. We are literally buying used airframes from France to maintain our existing 50 Mirages. The best approach is to buy the Rafale and bulk up on the Tejas. Buying out of production fighters is setting ourselves up for a challenge down the road.
I'm suggesting buy Mirage and bulk up on Tejas as a substitute for buying 114 Rafale (or at least to reduce those numbers). The critical period is the 2030s when a lot of aircraft are retiring and having an extra squadron of Mig 29s and an extra squadron or two of Mirages could help. After that, continue on Tejas Mk2

Even the French Air Force is upgrading and flying its Mirages. 59 Mirages from the UAE fleet are between 16 and 31 years old. Retire the latter and keep the former flying. ..We're buying used airframes as they are potentially cheaper than buying 'new' spare parts ... $25m for all those airframes is less than the cost of a single plane upgrade. And improving availability of existing Mirages is as good as getting new planes.

edit: bulk up on tejas is more probably tejas Mk2. Thus the greater need for some stop gap while you ramp up and keep churning those out.
Issue is we are struggling to maintain our current Mirages and are buying additional used airframes for spares. The FAF is *only* upgrading a fraction of its fleet. Its even retired its most important 2000Ns (https://www.aircosmosinternational.com/ ... -2000n-700). Only around a squadron of C's remains, with the FAF not upgrading them and regarding them all but obsolete (https://www.key.aero/article/has-france ... e-obsolete). The D's will remain, but around 50 of them, same as the IAF.
End in sight

However, it would be wrong to think that the years have taken no toll on the aircraft. Three decades of dedicated service have inevitably left their mark and the Mirages are now tackling the dreaded upward slope of the so-called ‘bathtub curve’, which maps out current and future maintenance needs. The principal failures that plague the aircraft today stem from the radar and the navigation and attack system, which is specific to the aircraft. However, the defence contractor, Thales, is monitoring the equipment closely, and Orange has no complaints about the availability of obsolete components to replace faulty or worn-out parts.
When someone says obsolete and no complaints, you can bet they have complaints but are not going to yack about it to an English aviation mag.

The Greeks are retiring their first squadron of Mirages for 18 Rafales - reason, maintenance issues.

So, whatever we buy now has to remain in service for 30-40 years. Can we sustain two more squadrons i.e. 36-40 Mirages for that period without adequate supply of spares for a fighter which will retire from even the FAF by 2030? That's when the D's are meant to retire.

If we buy them for spares, then we dont address new airframe numbers - its a tough decision. IMHO, we shouldn't think of new Mirages until and unless we get a confirmed line of spares support till the 2040s at the very minimum.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

I am quite amazed with the TSPAF's ability to maintain the second hand Mirage 3/5 following upgrades for as long as they were able to flog them.

I am curious, if a second hand Mirage 2K could be acquired and upgraded with radar, mission computer and nave attack system from the Tejas MK1A.

We could save on the airframe cost. While being able to completely control the munitions certified for the aircraft.

I admit that the service life of the aircraft will be under 20 years.

But I am thinking that with control over the production of subsystems we could also reduce the unit costs for MK1A.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

The mirage overhaul facility in Pakistan is a very end to end kind of facility, they reproduce many parts that are no longer available from bare metal. We can do that kind of thing much better given the much better aerospace industry that tejas created. But the same amount of efforts if put into tejas ecosystem will guve much higher RoI. But since ideally we should be able to scale up our operational bandwidth for low RoI projects too as long as they are operationally not financially intensive. Our engineering resources only going by quantity are infinite but not all of that will be aerospace grade with sufficient aerospace experience. If we are ready to takeup a mirage 2000 greenfield project with a lead time of 3-5 years, mop up second hand mirages -atleat another 50- with atleast 10 years life - we could do such a project with a low IRR. If govt.Subsidises even a tata subsidiary can do this, if IRR is artificially ramped up.

But the exact reason this may not be done is same as to why we dont see so many ideas we brfites fantasise but dont see implemented.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

ldev wrote:Rudram needs to be integrated with the Rafale. It will be a much more lethal delivery platform for SEAD/DEAD missions rather than the SU-30 on which Rudram has been tested. The combination of a native rcs of ~1.00-1.2 m^2 plus Spectra should enable it approach to ~100 km or even less from an S400 radar before burn through, well within the Rudram range from the right altitude. The French will charge an arm and a leg for this but IMO it will be well worth it for the IAF.
Frankly you may have a better chance with a Brahmos or scalp combo then trying to get within 100km of the s400. That's a death wish for a very expensive platform.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Pratyush wrote:I am quite amazed with the TSPAF's ability to maintain the second hand Mirage 3/5 following upgrades for as long as they were able to flog them.

I am curious, if a second hand Mirage 2K could be acquired and upgraded with radar, mission computer and nave attack system from the Tejas MK1A.

We could save on the airframe cost. While being able to completely control the munitions certified for the aircraft.

I admit that the service life of the aircraft will be under 20 years.

But I am thinking that with control over the production of subsystems we could also reduce the unit costs for MK1A.

The avionics etc arent the real issue. The real spares we will run short of relate to the hydraulics, the landing gear assembly, the structural elements, the myriad engine parts. We can fix the avionics, weapons etc. Rest is where we will struggle.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Karan M wrote: The avionics etc arent the real issue. The real spares we will run short of relate to the hydraulics, the landing gear assembly, the structural elements, the myriad engine parts. We can fix the avionics, weapons etc. Rest is where we will struggle.
Karanji

Given enough volume, we can reverse engineer or replace them with modern equivalents, at slightly increased cost maybe. But that would mean tying ourselves to an airframe that is 40+ years old, which would be crazy given how far along we have come with our desi bird(s). If IAF is willing to put up with just improved M2K, at least in terms of avionics, then they might as well go for more Mk1A. They get better package overall as compared to a refurbished second hand bird.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by suryag »

Bala Vignesh Sir, am sure you know RE is not so easy, every part made should be fully design qualified for low volume and then production qualified for higher volume. Of course, it can be done but the cost to benefit analysis will have a big role to play. Before someone says 3D print, want to caution it doesnt work in majority of the cases if you are looking for high strength materials/alloys that well
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Karan M wrote: The avionics etc arent the real issue. The real spares we will run short of relate to the hydraulics, the landing gear assembly, the structural elements, the myriad engine parts. We can fix the avionics, weapons etc. Rest is where we will struggle.
Karanji

Given enough volume, we can reverse engineer or replace them with modern equivalents, at slightly increased cost maybe. But that would mean tying ourselves to an airframe that is 40+ years old, which would be crazy given how far along we have come with our desi bird(s). If IAF is willing to put up with just improved M2K, at least in terms of avionics, then they might as well go for more Mk1A. They get better package overall as compared to a refurbished second hand bird.
We haven't been able to do it so far, as the IAF simply doesnt have the capacity in place (manpower and funding) to oversee a program of this magnitude.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Tanaji »

A related question in the above context: how did Iran manage to keep their F14 flying?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ShivS »

Pratyush wrote:I am quite amazed with the TSPAF's ability to maintain the second hand Mirage 3/5 following upgrades for as long as they were able to flog them.

I am curious, if a second hand Mirage 2K could be acquired and upgraded with radar, mission computer and nave attack system from the Tejas MK1A.

We could save on the airframe cost. .

Project ROSE.

PAF bought every Mirage3/5 they could lay their hands on from 1990 to 2005 and added new avionics and strike capabilities on the better airframes with the rest being used for spares. Really lucky with Libya - got nearly 50 new aircraft and 150 brand new engines.

Project was a half success, half failure. Abandoned eventually in favour of the JF17 but they still operate 80 of the ROSE Mirages.

Very challenging to retrofit and maintain 40 year old airframes.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Tanaji wrote:A related question in the above context: how did Iran manage to keep their F14 flying?
They roped in the Chinese, ran a worldwide program to snap up all F-14 spares, indigenized, after all that they can barely manage a couple of airworthy squadrons of the type, carefully hoarded and likely running a fraction of the hours our Mirages pull. Plus they inherited a huge stockpile of spares purchased as part of the original deal and more supplied as part of the hostage deal.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

Karan M wrote: The avionics etc arent the real issue. The real spares we will run short of relate to the hydraulics, the landing gear assembly, the structural elements, the myriad engine parts. We can fix the avionics, weapons etc. Rest is where we will struggle.
The engines would be the biggest issue. Thanks to the arm and a leg (and both kidneys) that the French charged us for just the avionics upgrade along with the M53 engine being out of production we could not replace the engines on the M2k fleet with new ones during the MLU. This might cost us dearly in the coming years considering that it is a single-engined aircraft and an engine failure almost certainly means a crash. The engines have been far more reliable than Russian ones so far but everything gets old eventually.

The Mirage fleet will still serve us well for years given its capability and versatility but spending even more money on it now would be foolish. We have to save and spend every paisa we can find on making sure the Tejas Mk2 project succeeds and can be produced at a decent rate within a reasonable timeframe. Otherwise the decade of the 2030's will be far worse than this one for the IAF in terms of maintaining squadron strength.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

In light of the difficulty faced by air forces in maintaining fleets that are out of production, it seems the IAF needs to be commended for the serviceability and use of the mig21.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by titash »

Cain Marko wrote:In light of the difficulty faced by air forces in maintaining fleets that are out of production, it seems the IAF needs to be commended for the serviceability and use of the mig21.
We inducted about 800-850 MiG-21s of all models put together and at one point had almost 600 MiG-21s as our frontline interceptor fleet (almost 30 squadrons worth). Plus we manufactured them locally for almost 2 decades. That's a huge amount of locally produced spares, trained manpower, cannibalization stocks, etc. Not to mention there were 10,000 odd MiG-21s produced and used worldwide...you can probably keep our 125 bisons flyable for another 25 years if needed.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Regarding the Pak Mirage 3/5 fleet, it is there on paper. Most of the aircraft run on cannibalized parts. It makes up numbers but

1) What % of the fleet is operationally viable
2) How many sorties can these Aircraft really run in a an operational scenario- 3-5 per aircraft before they are grounded?
3) Pakis have bought 40 year Egyptian aircraft many of which were not in running condition- these aircraft have been parked in the Sun, so they are not making most of the parts rather reusing parts which have flown many hours and exposed to elements.

Pakis claim they manufacture JF-17 but there no Pakistani parts, they claimed after taking Chinese vaccines and pouring them is smaller Bottles as Manufacture f Vaccine, so Paki claims of manufacture need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

4) It also a comment on the JF-17 fleet and F-7 fleet, that Pakis have chosen to keep the Mirage fleet with questionable status running rather than replace them with Delaying the retirement of F-7 acquired much later than the Mirages or JF-17's

5) on 27-Feb-19 the Mirages were able to deliver some PGM's while the JF-17 delivered unguided MK83 REK Bombs

Make no mistake, the real Backbone of the PAF is its Operational F-16 with Amraam 120-C, LGB and GBU backed by SAAB 2000 Erieye and some US supplied PA planes for communication and Jamming.

The rest are for tasks such as distracting the IAF or strike with F-16 air cover.

Not saying the rest of PAF fleet should be ignored but I dont think what they did with Mirage 3/5 is something great. The IAF will have to be cautious against whether JF-17's have better radars and missiles and PAF now MQ-9 (S-300) and other SAM additions.

Can't believe US gave an award for the cover up of a loss of F-16, i.e given the nature of the award the US wanted to make sure the Downed F-16 also did not land up in China so has possibly shipped to somewhere in the USA?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ShivS »

Cain Marko wrote:In light of the difficulty faced by air forces in maintaining fleets that are out of production, it seems the IAF needs to be commended for the serviceability and use of the mig21.
Iran had a tougher problem to solve - the US denied access to spares. We had to face the complete break down of the supply chain due to the dissolution of the USSR in the early 90s. Unscrupulous middlemen started supplying faulty spares that led to crashes. By 2000 we had located the actual manufacturers and established higher quality supplies once again. Spares related issues came down but as volumes shrink the per unit costs are climbing.

We should have been far more pro active in the 90s.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ShivS »

Both the ROSE Mirages and the F7s are past their use-by dates, they were to be replaced by 2020. The PAF intends to replace them by JF17s and other aircraft but money is a real issue.

In their limited roles, both types have utility. Like our Bisons and Jags.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

:mrgreen:

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 49474?s=20 ---> Funniest part was, a bunch of RAND analysts who were parroted by a faaltu halwai went around saying that the IAF would not be able to 'integrate or optimally exploit the S-400'. Clearly, these guys have no clue about the IAF's Software Development Institute and its capabilities.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 71232?s=20 ---> * For the semantically inclined: here RAND = the actual RAND Corporation.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 36292?s=20 ---> All said and done, don't miss one thing: India chose the Russian S-400 counterintervention A2/AD tool over procuring the F-35. If S-500/550 too makes the cut, then the Pentagon will think 'We knew it'.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Russia is looking for a repeat order of the S-400.

https://twitter.com/PatilSushmit/status ... 45600?s=20 ----> Russia continues to fulfill the contract for the supply of Russian S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to India and hopes for new supplies under the option. This was announced by Alexander Mikheev, Director General of Rosoboronexport.

https://twitter.com/PatilSushmit/status ... 17794?s=20 ---> “We continue to fulfill the contract for the supply of the S-400 and hope, among other things, for an option,” he said.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1468467160167059458?s=20 ---> In the future, we could be attacked from all fronts, starting from economic strangulation to diplomatic isolation & military stand-offs to info blackouts, in the form of attack by a distributed denial of services. We will need to prepare for the full spectrum: Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Is the Air Chief understanding the importance of what he has just said.

Taken to its logical conclusion. It means that IAF should also be hopping mad for domestic aircrafts and munition solution's.

Or given his situation, the IAF is hopping mad and this is the only way they can express it.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

The Indian Air Force and Indian Army Apache fleet need NLOS missiles
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... -missiles/
03 Dec 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 03969?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Navy will replace Zhuk-ME radar onboard carrier based MiG-29K/KUB fighters with indigeneous Uttam AESA radars. Has 2x the performance of Zhuk-ME and far better MTBF.
If true I hope the IAF follows suit. Their 29's have the same Zhuk-ME currently. Combined with the D-29 SPJ and Astra integration it would make an already capable Air-Superiority fighter much better. Would give it a healthy advantage over the paki F-16's and better able to match/outperform the various PLAAF Flanker clones. Later on when the time comes to retire these aircraft the radars would probably have life left and can be used to retrofit older Tejas Mk1's if possible or directly in newer Mk2's entering service at the time.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sajaym »

YashG
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

sajaym wrote:https://idrw.org/uae-plans-to-offer-its ... and-india/

Not sure whether fact or fart.
Egyptian Air Force number dont look bad & they are eyeing atleast going by some online articles upto 100 Tejas. Why would they take the headache of maintaining additional Mirages. Maintaining mirage 2000 isnt a financial but an operational headache - it will eat into operational capability bandwidth which could be used better elsewhere. Smaller countries will not have the capability to increase their ops bandwidth, thats why smaller countries retire difficult to maintain fleets early. India though due to our size, can.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

nachiket wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 03969?s=20 ---> Report: Indian Navy will replace Zhuk-ME radar onboard carrier based MiG-29K/KUB fighters with indigeneous Uttam AESA radars. Has 2x the performance of Zhuk-ME and far better MTBF.
If true I hope the IAF follows suit. Their 29's have the same Zhuk-ME currently. Combined with the D-29 SPJ and Astra integration it would make an already capable Air-Superiority fighter much better. Would give it a healthy advantage over the paki F-16's and better able to match/outperform the various PLAAF Flanker clones. Later on when the time comes to retire these aircraft the radars would probably have life left and can be used to retrofit older Tejas Mk1's if possible or directly in newer Mk2's entering service at the time.
We can also fire Astra SFDR with Uttam. No reason why IAF shouldnt or wont. SFDR on mig29 will make it quite a killer in skies! Imagine 80 MIg29's with SFDR, AESA, D29 and big ops radius.

IAF"s mig29 kept the entire paki f16 fleet away during kargil. I wish it will do so again!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sankum »

Only 10 mig 29 acquired in 1995 and 21 new can have uttam radar as they will serve up to 2040 and is economical.
70 mig 29 of 1987-89 vintage will retire in 2032-34 after 45 year calender life and 4000 hours flying life,

Mig 29 k will serve up to 2040 and 41 nos remaining can have Uttam aesa radar.
kit
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by kit »

Wonder buying up all the UAE mirage 2000s could nicely add at least 3-4 squadrons ?.. is the current config of the emirati mirages suitable or would it need upgrades

also would ensure no new fillies in the stable and focus on the indigenous procurement plans
Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

kit wrote:Wonder buying up all the UAE mirage 2000s could nicely add at least 3-4 squadrons ?.. is the current config of the emirati mirages suitable or would it need upgrades

also would ensure no new fillies in the stable and focus on the indigenous procurement plans
IIRC these are top of the line M2Ks, amongst the most advanced variants. Don't think we'll need any major upgrades. Maybe an overhaul and some tweaks. Much would depend on their condition and price.
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

UAE M2000 will be in the market once they start getting Rafales from 2027 onwards, doesn't make sense to acquire them, better to get more Rafales and LCA MK 2. The M2000 has done yeoman service, but its days are numbered, I done see the IAF flying them for more than 13-14 years. They are already depending on canibalised parts since many of French factories have stopped making them.
kit
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by kit »

Aditya_V wrote:UAE M2000 will be in the market once they start getting Rafales from 2027 onwards, doesn't make sense to acquire them, better to get more Rafales and LCA MK 2. The M2000 has done yeoman service, but its days are numbered, I done see the IAF flying them for more than 13-14 years. They are already depending on canibalised parts since many of French factories have stopped making them.
Rafales cost an arm and a leg..and a kidney

Expect delays in Rafale production with the current lines busy with the huge backlog

The amount of money saved can be put into accelerating AMCA timelines and another production line
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