Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
drnayar
BRFite
Posts: 925
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 18:38

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by drnayar »

Prem Kumar wrote:Hope he gets a fair hearing

What's interesting is "were the Paki co-ordinates pre-fed into the system"? It seems like the missile/command-unit was in a "hot" state. The flight path was interesting to say the least, with at least 1 waypoint where it made a trajectory change.

Quite likely that some high-value target was hit, though it was not intentional
without the warhead though, curious as to why an unarmed missile would have coordinates
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

My 2 cents on the incident

1. From the damage the missile caused, it had a warhead, IAF never said it was unarmed, that was a Paki claim.

2. Pakis were clueless as to what happened for 36 hours, they didn't detect anything till the missile blasted the Paki warehouse. Probably only after the Indians reported what it was.

3. The missile was heading to PAF Rafiqui, before it crashed into an innocuous warehouse , I.e the preprogrammed target was PAF Rafiqui but Brahmos has ability to change target midcourse.
RajaRudra
BRFite
Posts: 344
Joined: 17 Sep 2019 14:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by RajaRudra »

Dornier making round and round of HAL Airport almost 8 times. Hopefully some testing before upgrade and delivery. :D
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Here we go.... :mrgreen: :roll:

Why delay fighter jets for IAF, says the Parliamentary Committee on Defence
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... e/3019056/
22 March 2023
“The government should consider buying state-of-the-art fifth-generation fighter aircraft over the counter without losing time to keep the force in a comfortable position,” the committee said.
The committee also said it found “considerable delay” in the supply of 40 LCA Tejas jets from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a public sector defence undertaking.
First order only 40 aircraft and then talk about low supply. We will order based on production rate :roll:

The esteemed members of the PCD ---> https://prsindia.org/parliamentary-committees/defence
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 939
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

^^^
Committee Led by a BJP buffoon. Import lobby has bought folks from all parties. This panel is just doing import lobby's lobbying
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1 ... 31296?s=20 ---> Additional Mirage 2000 Aircraft (Twin Seater) are planned to be acquired in 2023-25 according to MoD's reply to the Standing Committee on Defence. This might have been cleared by the DAC (Defence Acquisition Council) on 16 March 2023.
AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 412
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by AkshaySG »

Unless it's extremely cheap for cannibalizing parts i don't see the point

There have been some losses yes but we don't foresee Mirage 2000s serving beyond the early 2030s.. What good does a few extra airframes do right now

Rather order more Mk1As or add this to the budget set aside for Mk2s and get more of those
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

AkshaySG wrote:Unless it's extremely cheap for cannibalizing parts i don't see the point

There have been some losses yes but we don't foresee Mirage 2000s serving beyond the early 2030s.. What good does a few extra airframes do right now

Rather order more Mk1As or add this to the budget set aside for Mk2s and get more of those
That is what I believe they are being purchased for i.e. for cannibalization.
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5352
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote: The esteemed members of the PCD ---> https://prsindia.org/parliamentary-committees/defence
:shock: :mrgreen:
There are 31 members in this committee. It's a friggin circus!
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

I wonder how these individuals are chosen to be on this committee.

Does any one know the Parliamentary Procedures with regards to this? All I can surmise is that it is an all-political-party affair.

What will it take for someone like a General VK Singh to be part of this committee? He is a Lok Sabha member from Ghaziabad constituency.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Gems of comedy from the PCD...who writes this crap? :-o

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 19233?s=20 ---> If you're baffled by parts of the recent report (No.36) from the Standing Committee on Defence, please know you're not alone.

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 19233?s=20 ---> Let's start here... MRFA contracted? Why'd no one break out the champagne? (Or Jaegermeister or Aquavit or, I dunno, Coors Light?)

Image

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 94438?s=20 ---> 33 active fighter squadrons? Did we conjure a couple out of thin air? Just how "as on date" is this information?

Image

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 37761?s=20 ---> Of the 40 LCA Mk1 on contract, eight are trainers, of which only one is complete. So it is physically impossible for more than 32 LCA to "have reached the Air Force."

My Note: See the part where the MRFA is again mentioned. Direct contradiction of the MRFA statement above. One part of the report states that MRFA contract is signed and then the same report - further down - states that MRFA acquisition is in advanced stages of negotiation. Then they wonder how allegations of corruption begin. :mrgreen:

Also note how they state that in case MRFA goes the way of the LCA or Kaveri (why you need phoren enemies dissing local maal, when we have enemies in our own parliament doing it!), then procure fifth generation fighter aircraft. See how they just casually slid that in there! :roll:

Who is the PCD reporting to - Indian Parliament or some foreign one?


Image

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 47040?s=20 ---> I for one fully agree with this description for the Il-76. Such a charismatic old beast!

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

MoD written reply to the PCD...

https://twitter.com/vaimaniki/status/16 ... 99361?s=20 ---> Here is the list of all planned acquisitions in FY23-24 and FY24-25. Interestingly, along with Twin Seater M2K, there is also mention of Vertical Wind Tunnel and wet lease of tankers.

Image
williams
BRFite
Posts: 875
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by williams »

Rakesh wrote:I wonder how these individuals are chosen to be on this committee.

Does any one know the Parliamentary Procedures with regards to this? All I can surmise is that it is an all-political-party affair.

What will it take for someone like a General VK Singh to be part of this committee? He is a Lok Sabha member from Ghaziabad constituency.
How useful is this committee anyway? PMO, DM, and FM takes major purchase decisions. The committee is there to make some noise and is hence useless for real decision-making.
drnayar
BRFite
Posts: 925
Joined: 29 Jan 2023 18:38

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by drnayar »

Cain Marko wrote:
Rakesh wrote: The esteemed members of the PCD ---> https://prsindia.org/parliamentary-committees/defence
:shock: :mrgreen:
There are 31 members in this committee. It's a friggin circus!
Some chai biskoot has to go somewhere i suppose !! .. i propose they consider buying american phyters and have endless sessions to keep the lobbyists happy and well fed
Mollick.R
BRFite
Posts: 1033
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 10:26

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Mollick.R »

To boost IAF's capabilities, Defence ministry signs contracts worth Rs 3700 cr with BEL for radars, receivers

PTI Last Updated: Mar 23, 2023, 08:56 PM IST

The defence ministry on Thursday signed two contracts worth over Rs 3,700 crore with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) for radars and receivers, which will enhance the operational capabilities of the Indian Air Force. The first contract worth over Rs 2,800 crore pertains to the supply of Medium Power Radars (MPR) 'Arudhra' for the IAF, and the second, at an overall cost of around Rs 950 crore, relates to 129 DR-118 Radar Warning Receivers (RWR).

Both projects are under 'Buy Indian-IDMM (Indigenously Designed Developed and Manufactured)' category. The projects are aimed at enhancing surveillance, detection, tracking and electronic warfare capabilities of the air force.

"These essentially embody the spirit of 'Aatmanirbhar Bharat' and will help facilitate the realisation of the country's journey to achieve self-reliance in defence manufacturing," the Indian Air Force (IAF) said in a statement.

MPR (Arudhra) radar has been indigenously designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and will be manufactured by BEL. Its successful trials have already been conducted by the IAF.

It is a 4D multi-function phased array radar with electronic steering in both azimuth and elevation for surveillance, detection and tracking of aerial targets. The system will have target identification based on interrogations from co-located identification friend or foe system.

The DR-118 RWR will considerably enhance the electronic warfare capabilities of the Su-30 MKI aircraft. Majority of sub-assemblies and parts will be sourced from indigenous manufacturers, the statement said.

The IAF said the project will boost and encourage active participation of indian electronics and associated industries, including MSMEs. It is also expected to generate employment of approximately two lakh man-days over a period of three and half years, it said.

Read Full News From Here// ET Link...
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 948569.cms
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Much needed good news!

Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.

Reason: Russia cannot supply

Well, if Russia cannot supply, why didn't the IAF do some re-planning and spend that money on indigenous systems? Why slash the budget when you are in a semi-hot war with China?

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

Prem Kumar wrote:Much needed good news!

Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.

Reason: Russia cannot supply

Well, if Russia cannot supply, why didn't the IAF do some re-planning and spend that money on indigenous systems? Why slash the budget when you are in a semi-hot war with China?

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason

Buy more Tejas, Dhruv, Prachand, Akash and .....................Brahmos
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Prem Kumar wrote:Reason: Russia cannot supply
So, the UKR war is indeed having an effect on supplies to us?
BenG
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 80
Joined: 30 Aug 2022 21:11

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by BenG »

Prem Kumar wrote:Much needed good news!

Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason
Didn't the govt set up a non-lapsable fund for capital budget?
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 939
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Prem Kumar wrote: Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.

Reason: Russia cannot supply

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason
Im surprised such a statement can be even be mentioned. It sounds not even ridiculous but downright disservice to nation. LUH, LCH are ready to be ordered. Even more Mk1A.

How does this square with the excuse that LCH cant be ordered due to fund crunch!
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Prem Kumar wrote:Much needed good news!

Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.

Reason: Russia cannot supply

Well, if Russia cannot supply, why didn't the IAF do some re-planning and spend that money on indigenous systems? Why slash the budget when you are in a semi-hot war with China?

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason
Give it to the navy, i am sure they will find a way to use it :lol:
williams
BRFite
Posts: 875
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by williams »

Manish_P wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Much needed good news!

Because, there is some bad news as well. The IAF will not only return unused funds for 2022-23, but has also reduced the projected requirements for 2023-24 by a whopping 26000 Crores.

Reason: Russia cannot supply

Well, if Russia cannot supply, why didn't the IAF do some re-planning and spend that money on indigenous systems? Why slash the budget when you are in a semi-hot war with China?

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/iafs-bu ... ary-reason
Give it to the navy, i am sure they will find a way to use it :lol:
Not spending allocated funds is really bad. With GoI running a 4 - 9% of fiscal deficit, the money disappears and never gets allocated to anybody. But in this case, what can you do, when your supplies are tied up by a country at war? I don't think DM has the agility or flexibility to repurpose the funds. Who is going to get all the notes/signatures and NOCS for that? Lessons learned is we need to diversify the supply chain or much better go for local equipment and suppliers. We also need more professional financial managers/processes in the DM.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

williams wrote:.....
Not spending allocated funds is really bad. With GoI running a 4 - 9% of fiscal deficit, the money disappears and never gets allocated to anybody. But in this case, what can you do, when your supplies are tied up by a country at war? I don't think DM has the agility or flexibility to repurpose the funds. Who is going to get all the notes/signatures and NOCS for that?...
Sir, although my statement was in jest (bad one i admit), if the Government really wants, they can get the files moving quickly
...Lessons learned is we need to diversify the supply chain or much better go for local equipment and suppliers...
Surely that lesson was learned by us decades ago. That is why our forces have a menagerie of equipment from USSR, UK, France, Germany, Israel,...
..We also need more professional financial managers/processes in the DM..
IMVHO, more than anything else, we need to have accountability

Instead we have accountants
williams
BRFite
Posts: 875
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by williams »

Manish_P wrote: IMVHO, more than anything else, we need to have accountability
Instead, we have accountants
100% Correct. Accountability plus the sense of duty for the Nation has to be there. But years of lethargy and defensive accounting to counter corruption cases and audits have created a system where accountability, has become equivalent to keeping the accounts clean for auditability. Things are slowly changing but not at the speed at which our enemies are arming themselves. So in a way, this Ukraine conflict should wake us up from our slumber.
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2982
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Cross Posting from Tejas thread

Why delay fighter jets for IAF, says the Parliamentary Committee on Defence
Observing the incessant delays over the procurement of fighter jets, the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has said that the government should not delay the procurement of additional fighter jets.

The procurement of additional fighter jets should not be delayed any further said the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence in its report tabled in the House.


“The government should consider buying state-of-the-art fifth-generation fighter aircraft over the counter without losing time to keep the force in a comfortable position,” the committee said.


The Committee also asked the government to make a final decision on having a third aircraft carrier, “In no uncertain words, [we] recommend that the Ministry of Defence may take a final decision, chalk out a trajectory and start the planning process for the third aircraft carrier which would eventually enhance India’s maritime capabilities,” the parliamentary panel said in its report on March 21.

The committee also said it found “considerable delay” in the supply of 40 LCA Tejas jets from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a public sector defence undertaking.

As reported earlier by Financial Express, the Indian Air Force (IAF)’s mega $20 billion Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) programme is nowhere in sight. Against the fast-depleting squadron of the IAF, the MRFA programme which is about acquiring 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft, is one such programme that the Indian Armed Forces and the Government are treating as important.

Besides, there are multiple projects underway in India’s aerospace ecosystem. The HAL along with Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is working together to build Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). Tejas MK2 is another ambitious project which is evolving out of HAL’s Tejas fighter aircraft design. Tejas MK2 is building upon Mark 1A.

While so many programmes are about taking a leap in India’s manufacturing technology, the focus for IAF remains on the need for next-generation tech-ready combat jets for potential future conflicts. Simply put, the IAF has to fulfil its mandate if such situations arise. The IAF’s Perspective Plan looks at it in terms of its combat asset which is broadly defined as 42 squadrons. At present, IAF has 30 squadrons. Further, the IAF is phasing out its remaining four MiG-21 squadrons by 2025, bringing the squadron strength to its lowest.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18274
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/NewsIADN/status/164 ... 50882?s=20 ---> Modernization of Air Field Infrastructure (MAFI) Project Phase-II. Under Phase-II, 37 airfields are to be upgraded belonging to the Indian Air Force (IAF), Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard. 42 out of its 53 Air Force bases, now have permanent night landing facilities. Phase-II will be completed in 2024. TATA Power SED is executing the project.

Image
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

This is good news. MAFI Phase 1 was completed on time

But what is conspicuous by its absence is the plan to build HAS or underground hangars in the airbases near LAC, which would be vulnerable in a ballistic missile 1st strike by China (which we have wargamed to death)

Give it to Gadkari or any one of the private engineering/contractor firms and the project can be done in a 2-3 years. The budget required will be a fraction of the investments we are making in our road infrastructure

We also don't have any plans to deploy BMDs to protect our air-bases. A BM that barely costs 1-2 Million can take out aircrafts worth 100s of Millions.

These are glaring deficiencies that are yet to be plugged
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Prem Or anyone What was the root cause assigned to the helicopter shootdown in Kashmir after Ballakot?
It was a case of fratricide and five officers were dismissed.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Human error. The chopper had an IFF system, it was off. However, it was on a special restricted corridor for safe travel. The battery commander asked a senior commander for permission. The gent in charge should have rechecked. Instead he gave the go ahead. There was a lot of chaos in the system over the PAF reprisal and that added to the confusion.
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Jay »

In the fog of war, this is understandable. But in the past few years, there have been more than expected number of these mishaps to be comfortable. IAF Helicopter shootdown, launching of Brahmos, heli crash of General rawant, mid air collision a few weeks ago during DACT exercises, now three missile misfired in just one exercise. These accidents appear different to run of the mill accidents that happen to our aging MIG's and seems to point to a new trend. Really disconcerting.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Jay wrote:In the fog of war, this is understandable. But in the past few years, there have been more than expected number of these mishaps to be comfortable. IAF Helicopter shootdown, launching of Brahmos, heli crash of General rawant, mid air collision a few weeks ago during DACT exercises, now three missile misfired in just one exercise. These accidents appear different to run of the mill accidents that happen to our aging MIG's and seems to point to a new trend. Really disconcerting.
All militaries have mistakes, I am not worried about SA-6 deviation, crash during DACT exercise or even Brahmos Misfire, in fact being open about it we learn from mistakes. Pakis make 10 times the mistakes but will never admit nor do the Chinese's, or the American shock and awe.

Accidents, mistakes should not scare people into not trying things , practicing or experimenting in peace time.

In fact analyzing the SA-6 deviation with Akash 1S order, it might actually be good thing. Logically it is quiet possible, the lobby was trying to Stymie the Akash 1S order by saying the SA-6 were there. When SA 6 systems were shown to be obsolete all obstacles for Akash 1S would have been removed.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Basically, the helicopter had not switched on the IFF. And was not in the safe zone.
Secondly, the air defence unit was unaware a friendly helicopter took off.
Thirdly there was a fog of war with Fizzleya action at the border.
Fourthly the Spyder system mistook the helicopter for a missile.
The COI took action on five officers and three were found wrongfully charged by an AFT.
A year after the accident, IAF headquarters is making sure that the laid down Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) are stringently followed, adopting a zero-tolerance approach to violations of such procedures.

"During course of COI, we have learned that two important laid down procedures were not followed. First, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system was found to be switched off. And second, the chopper was not directed to the safe zone by the traffic controller. After the accident, all units and bases were sent strict guidelines to adhere to the laid down procedures," said an officer, based in Air Headquarters in Delhi.

The officer added, "In case of deviation of SoP, strict disciplinary action will be taken against the involved officer." IFF is installed in all military aircraft, which is a transponder-based identification device that communicates with radars to establish whether an aircraft is friendly or from the enemy. During a combat situation, air traffic controllers give a path to all aircraft and helicopters to fly in a green corridor.

IAF is also working out the integration issue that cropped up during the accident. "It is also being looked into [whether the] missile could have avoided hitting its own machine if both platforms were compatible to each other," the official added. The Mi-17 was a Russian chopper while the Spyder air defence missile was from Israel.
Now if we go back to Gulf War there were three instances of friendly fire downing Coalition aircraft.
Again the causes were IFF not switched, the radar fire control mistook the friendly aircraft for missiles, and there was the fog of war.
Finding the right mix of trust between an autonomous machine and the human relying on it is a delicate balance, especially given the inevitability of error. Seventeen years after the Tornado shootdown, the automated features of the Patriot missile remain in place, but the way in which they are used has shifted. Air threats, such as aircraft, helicopters, and cruise missiles can now only be engaged in manual mode “to reduce the risk of fratricide,” as the U.S. Army’s manual for air and missile defense outlines. In manual mode, automated systems still detect and track targets, but it’s a human who makes the call about when and if to fire. But “for ballistic missiles and anti-radiation missiles,” like the kind the Patriot in Iraq assumed the Tornado was, “the operator has a choice of engaging in the automatic or manual mode,” though the manual notes that these “engagements are typically conducted in the automatic mode.”
I think an underlying circumstance is the hype of the capabilities of the opposing forces.
And which battery commander wants to be known for having been quiet when radar has identified an incoming missile?
The only root cause is if the battery did not fire against the helicopter.

Yes, other things like coordination etc are likely causes but not the root cause by eliminating it would prevent the accident.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Plus on the morning of 27 Feb 19 Pakis AF was flying drones, one was shot down by a Spyder SAM unit near Naliya Airbase in Gujarat on the morning of 27-Feb-19.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

The new Vayulink data-sharing architecture/system developed by an IAF officer serves to mitigate fratricide (by not relying exclusively on IFF). It also give situational awareness to the home team on where our assets are
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by fanne »

Now that 3/31 is gone, npo one wants to discuss why IAF gave back $ 3 billion (24,000 carore rupees) worth of capital budget back. Dereliction of duty?
Will only buy foreign maal and nothing else, will force the country to the brink?
Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3866
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kakkaji »

fanne wrote:Now that 3/31 is gone, npo one wants to discuss why IAF gave back $ 3 billion (24,000 carore rupees) worth of capital budget back. Dereliction of duty?
Will only buy foreign maal and nothing else, will force the country to the brink?
I think these were funds earmarked for the last two S-400’s from Russia that are delayed due to the Ukraine war
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Jay »

Kakkaji wrote:
I think these were funds earmarked for the last two S-400’s from Russia that are delayed due to the Ukraine war
Totally understood, but funds once given back won't be recouped for budgeting purposes and may not be tagged onto next years budget. With everything going on now, could IAF planners come up/anticipate no equipment, infra, training needs for IAF to spend the monies? This is beyond dereliction. Usually most good organizations have projects that get any excess unused funds from the budget. It feels like we do not even know what to spend money on even when the budget is there. I agree with fanne ji on this one.
Last edited by Jay on 01 Apr 2023 09:31, edited 1 time in total.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2914
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Someone needs to evaluate the last five years of funds returned and write an article on it. Needs to hold the forces accountable.

Where does one find utilization rates for each of the forces?
Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2131
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

What if this is a directive from the top?
A Deshmukh
BRFite
Posts: 517
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 14:24

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by A Deshmukh »

Jay wrote:Totally understood, but funds once given back won't be recouped for budgeting purposes and may not be tagged onto next years budget.
How much funds are actually given back? considering the spate of orders in the last few weeks, the funds seem to be allocated to other projects.
Post Reply