Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Karan M
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

There are several indications by now that the IAF has no shortage of datalinks.

We should thank the PAF for their post Balakot "swarm" attack. It really woke up the IAF to its gaps.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by basant »

India to lift ban on Italian firm linked to VVIP chopper scam
Last updated on: November 07, 2021 09:14 IST

In a significant step, the government has decided to lift the ban on dealings with Italian firm Leonardo (earlier name Finmeccanica) that was banned in connection with the Rs 3600 crore VVIP chopper scam.

Government sources told ANI on Sunday that the ban has been lifted in dealing with the company with conditions. As per the decision, the investigation against the company by the Central Bureau of Investigation and the Enforcement Directorate would continue.

"The company would also not be allowed to make any financial claims on the Government of India based on any agreements signed earlier and it will have to start afresh after the ban is lifted," the sources said.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

Karan M wrote:There are several indications by now that the IAF has no shortage of datalinks.

We should thank the PAF for their post Balakot "swarm" attack. It really woke up the IAF to its gaps.
We were woken up to a lot of such gaps in both air and ground during Kargil as well. The LAC skirmishes and subsequent buildup has woken us up to several more. Unfortunately for us we don't seem to be able to either recognize these gaps in advance of such incidents or do what is necessary as a nation to fill them, or both.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Filling these gaps is only possible if we spend accordingly. Otherwise we will keep "prioritising" which means some glaring gaps will remain and will be exploited by a competent adversary.

While there have been many successes in reforming processes, a lot has been ignored under the belief system which seems to prevail in GOIs advisors in Delhi apparently, that because we don't want conflict, there will be none.

And the "poor country syndrome" - we will find 3 Lakh Crore for the Jal Jeevan mission, because it has political benefits but Rs 3000 Cr for a GaN fab at IISc can't be scrounged up. Despite the fact it has incredible spinoff effects on our natsec. Across multiple industries too.

Stuff like this is enough to frustrate even most optimists. That hard power is driven by military strength and technological ability is something that seems to still elude our elite GOI advisors who are on social media talking of all sorts of things but ignore tech /mil strength almost completely.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by shaun »

Can anyone here point me out to a an old video of Mirage 2000 in 1st squadron service ?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

shaun wrote:Can anyone here point me out to a an old video of Mirage 2000 in 1st squadron service ?
Are you referring to this?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by shaun »

Rakesh wrote:
shaun wrote:Can anyone here point me out to a an old video of Mirage 2000 in 1st squadron service ?
Are you referring to this?
Thank you so much.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Have started delivery of S-400 to India: Russia
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 12414.html
15 Nov 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

I cannot verify the veracity of this tweet. But posting it FWIW....interesting back and forth in the first twitter link below.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 76329?s=20 ---> This is what we are getting.

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 76323?s=20 ---> Possible S-400 Squadron Configuration for the IAF. Each Squadron will have two Flights equipped with a 92N6E Fire Control Radar, a 96L6E Acquisition Radar and eight TELs. The Squadron HQ will be made up of a 91N6E Acquisition Radar and a 55K6E Command Post.

https://twitter.com/AnirudhGB/status/14 ... 74242?s=20 ---> Likely Composition of S-400 air defence system acquired by India.

Each regiment will be divided into 2 battalions with:

* One 92N6E engagement and FCR
* One 96L6E all-altitude acquisition radar
* 8 launchers.
* Each regiment will further have:
* One 91N6E Big Bird radar
* One 55K6E command post.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

:shock: well that explains the 5000 missiles.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by kit »

i suppose the 2 sets would be for pakis and 3 for the chinks., we need to keep both happy :mrgreen: .. 5000 missiles...??? dont think both the red and green air forces have that many planes !!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/InsightGL/status/14 ... 86021?s=20 ---->

* We broke S-400 news
* India is getting five squadrons
* China has six squadrons

* Difference:
- China has 36 launchers x 4 = 144 missiles
- India will have 40 launchers x 4 = 160 missiles
- Since China not signatory MTCR, it can't have the 400 km range missile
- Indian Air Force will have 400, 250, 120 and 40 km range missiles
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Partha9051/status/1 ... 93570?s=20 ---> IAF will surely test Rafale's spectra suite against the S-400 radars, since China also has the same system.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/Partha9051/status/1 ... 93570?s=20 ---> IAF will surely test Rafale's spectra suite against the S-400 radars, since China also has the same system.
How can we be assured that PRC having had access to this system will not ever be in a position to exploit it's weakness against India?

This is a question that has been gnawing in my mind ever since I learnt about this purchase.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SinghS »

Pratyush wrote:How can we be assured that PRC having had access to this system will not ever be in a position to exploit it's weakness against India?

This is a question that has been gnawing in my mind ever since I learnt about this purchase.
There is no assurance on this. Everything boils down to: who is having better trained manpower and established system & procedure in electronic warfare to exploit and find loopholes in enemy systems. If IAF has better trained and dedicated people & process which are well integrated with LRDE and funded for this purpose, we shall prevail.

This is an area where individual brilliance is not of much important and a systematic approach is going to win you war.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nits »

Cross post from India - Russian forum

Now that delivery of S-400 has started - considering 400km range - plotted how we can on paper cover both sides of border with 5 S-400 systems assuming all are actively working during war times...

Image

Tool used to plot circles on map - https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Thakur_B »

One of the centres falls in Nepal. Why?
Simplistic drawing that doesn't merit attention. According to news reports, 3 systems are headed to Pak border first.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nits »

even if we move it back ( nepal one) - it covers the border efficiently
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Thakur_B wrote:According to news reports, 3 systems are headed to Pak border first.
Interesting conundrum:

1) On the one hand, it makes perfect sense to have a no-fly-layer over Pakiland, which will allow us to carry out surgical strikes at will and shoot down any PAF formation. Plus, having the S400 will free up some squadrons for the North & Eastern sectors. In this sense, S400 on the Western sector is for an offensive role

2) But, we also need ABM protection for our airbases, logistic nodes etc near the lAC, for the opening missile barrage by the Chinese. We might want to employ S400 for this defensive role (absorb some punishment). If not, we need to mass-produce our homegrown BMD system for the same in quick time.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ArjunPandit »

northern sector is mountaineous, nullifying the radar advantage by providing a natural cover..we are assuming chinese pilots who havent fought any mountain war are perfect and their "GPS" equipment works perfectly
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Pratyush wrote:How can we be assured that PRC having had access to this system will not ever be in a position to exploit it's weakness against India?

This is a question that has been gnawing in my mind ever since I learnt about this purchase.
Have you ever thought about this question the other way around?

How can China be assured that India now having access to this system, will not ever be in a position to exploit its weakness against China?

Why is exploitation only the purview of the Chinese? We don't know how to exploit?

Does the operator - the IAF - even understand the English term called exploit? If English is impossible for the IAF to comprehend, I asked Google Chacha for the following translation of *Exploit* in Hindi.

शोषण, अनुचित लाभ उठाना
shoshan, anuchit laabh uthaana
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

shaun wrote:Thank you so much.
You are welcome.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Thakur_B wrote:One of the centres falls in Nepal. Why?
Simplistic drawing that doesn't merit attention. According to news reports, 3 systems are headed to Pak border first.
What if China uses the airspace over Nepal to cross into India? What does Nepal have to stop such an event?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Russia mulls exporting new S-500 missile systems to India capable of hitting satellites
https://www.republicworld.com/world-new ... lites.html
02 Nov 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 54752?s=20 ---> Guys who are drawing 5 circles across map of India and calling it S-400 bubble, need to understand it doesn't work that way. Each launcher will carry at least two or all four, 400 km ranged missiles. So draw 80 circles. And since S-400 will join the network, it won't be a stand alone cage.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

India gets initial deliveries of Russian S-400 systems despite threat of US sanctions
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 704342.cms
14 Nov 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

The induction of the s400 surely changes the picture for PLAAF planners, not that they couldn't have gamed this earlier.

Nevertheless, I sleep a little better knowing that tall men stand next to laang mijjiles on snow capped watch towers.

Aerial assault via missiles or fighters now will be a very difficult proposition. They know it'll be a stalemate with a distinct possibility of bad optics.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Rakesh wrote:India gets initial deliveries of Russian S-400 systems despite threat of US sanctions
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 704342.cms
14 Nov 2021
Given the amount we've paid for the overall systems, I suspect we've also acquired the optional radars per battery. In other words, the Cheeseboard acquisition radar, also with its mast capability to provide additional independent coverage for the batteries plus low level capability against cruise missiles.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nits »

is there an option for follow on order as part of contract we have signed ?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

S400 deployments will be kept a secret. I suspect that the "3 for the Western sector" thinking might have undergone a revision, given the LAC situation.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jaysimha »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cqKL9lVdZo
PM Modi witnesses air show by Indian Air Force at Purvanchal Expressway in Sultanpur, Uttar Pradesh
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/bsdhanoa/status/146 ... 15072?s=20 ---> The S-400 SAM system has been developed on the bedrock of an air defence philosophy of the Cold War that aimed to inflict unacceptable damage to ingressing NATO offensive aircraft. It is a system that seeks to keep the skies safe with minimal reliance on airborne AD aircraft.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/146 ... 37351?s=20 ---> IAF Jaguars on the Purvanchal Expressway today:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/14 ... 81986?s=20 ---> Great shot from Purvanchal today.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14606 ... 49920?s=20 ---> The Big Bird of #PurvanchalExpressway

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/InsightGL/status/14 ... 86021?s=20 ---->

* We broke S-400 news
* India is getting five squadrons
* China has six squadrons

* Difference:
- China has 36 launchers x 4 = 144 missiles
- India will have 40 launchers x 4 = 160 missiles
- Since China not signatory MTCR, it can't have the 400 km range missile
- Indian Air Force will have 400, 250, 120 and 40 km range missiles
KaranM you had debunked this MTCR theory iirc. Its being peddled again. can u weigh in?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

YashG wrote:KaranM you had debunked this MTCR theory iirc. Its being peddled again. can u weigh in?
Not KaranM, but I looked this up after seeing your post and you are correct. They did deliver the 400 km ranged missile as well to China.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status ... 43010?s=20 ---> Glimpses from the airshow in Sultanpur.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nits »

Sorry for my ignorance but s 400 will be operated by IAF or strategic forces?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

nits wrote:Sorry for my ignorance but s 400 will be operated by IAF or strategic forces?
Indian Air Force. They are the ones who are insisting on the platform, not the GOI which is the misconception among a few on the forum :)

The same service is also stating that acquisition of the S-400 does not translate into reduced numbers of manned squadrons. 42 is still the magic number to achieve. India's strategic command - for now - handles both nuclear and conventional ballistic missiles. S-400 is out of the purview of the strategic command.
nits wrote:is there an option for follow on order as part of contract we have signed ?
Not to my knowledge
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