Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/kaptaan_saheb/statu ... 27075?s=20 ---> Enemy bogey ejects the airspace

Photograph by Wg Cdr Indranil Nandi

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/_devildog_mm_/statu ... 54822?s=20 ---> Yea, that's what a Bison on ORP looks like.

An Indian Air Force MiG-21 armed with 2x R-77 BVR-AAMs and 2x R-73E CCMs.

Photo by Wg Cdr Indranil Nandi.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cybaru »

What a beauty the Mig21 is!!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1439 ... 15714?s=20 --->

Six Degrees of Separation and a Planeful of Sky....

Cast in the Same Mould - The Air Warrior Spirit.

Photographs by Wg Cdr Indranil Nandi and Flt Lt DS Sekhon
Whoa. That mki almost looks like it was in terminator style desert camo. Me eyes are getting old!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Bala Vignesh wrote:Admiral Saab,
I agree and am aware of what you say but as the principle advisor of all things aerospace, his stance and words carry weight which can shift things around, even if just a little. Given the juncture we are at when it comes to our own MIC, that little shift could spell the end of it, is my worry.
No need to worry Sirjee, the IAF will be in very capable hands under his leadership. He can only advise the GOI, but no Chief has authority to change anything. That was Air Chief Marshal SP Tyagi's central argument in the VVIP helicopter scandal.

The 83 Mk1A deal is signed. There will have to be something fundamentally wrong with the aircraft, for that contract to be cancelled. Or the turbofan will have to denied to us. I don't see either of that happening.

The Mk2 will have her first flight next year or at the latest, in 2023. So too early to talk about orders. AMCA, TEDBF, ORCA are still very much further away.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

I am not too concerned about the orders for mk2.

I believe that the file for ordering will be created the moment the first flight takes place and that series production will commence by 2025 or 2026 at the latest.

The only way the program can be delayed would be for their to be a flaw in the flight control system.

In that case the MK1 A orders will be increased to tide over the delays in Mk2 certification.

So I am quite relaxed about the future of our air force.

Though the absence of a domestic jet engine is a something I am quite concerned about. We need to fix this issue ASAP.

I wonder if the learning from HTFE 25 be useful for mk2 application.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

An Air Chief’s Last Flight – And Why They Do It
https://www.vayuaerospace.in/article/67 ... they-do-it
24 Sept 2021

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 08996?s=20 ---> As Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria prepares to hang up his boots for the last time, Vayu documented his last flight — and we talk about why IAF leadership flies and leads from the front.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 20546?s=20 ---> This choice was about coming full circle – ACM Bhadauria's flying career in the IAF began with MiG-21s of No. 23 Squadron ‘Panthers’ at Halwara, and so it ended, in a Panthers MiG-21 at the same station. Photos: @zone5aviation

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 69122?s=20 ---> When the jets returned to terra firma, ACM Bhadauria’s aircraft was welcomed in with a water cannon salute before he parked and switched off the R-25 turbojet for the last time.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by fanne »

Mirage 2000I has a more modern RDY-3 radar. It is a highly automated radar that automates search, track, designate, prioritize... the only thing pilot has to do is hit the fire button after the on board avionics has locked the enemy pane (the kill switch is still manual and rightly so). Should be a great asset in air to air war. Rafale takes this automation one step forward with voice command and presenting relevant info through the HMS.

We should (perhaps doing that) for LCA MK1A and MK2 (or retrofit it later in MK1A if not already done). Mig29 (further upgrade) and SU30MKI upgrades should at minimum have these. No need for the pilots to touch any switch, change mode etc.

https://twitter.com/raflanker/status/14 ... 76/photo/1
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

End of an era....MiG-21s started service with the IAF from the early 1960s. More than 60+ years.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 22049?s=20 ---> BREAKING: Plan to retire the IAF's remaining 4 MiG-21 squadrons in the next 3-4 years: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/_JammuNews_/status/ ... 00256?s=20 ---> IAF CHIEF: DIFFICULT TO SAY BY WHEN WE WILL HAVE 42 SQUADRONS. Certainly not in the next 10 - 15 years. In the next decade we should be up to 35.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 48581?s=20 ---> Here’s the IAF’s official 2021 #AirForceDay film.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Air Force giving benefits to startups to design, develop anti-drone systems
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 784053.cms
05 Oct 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 31489?s=20 ---> Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari: The First S-400 unit will be commissioned by this year.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:End of an era....MiG-21s started service with the IAF from the early 1960s. More than 60+ years.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 22049?s=20 ---> BREAKING: Plan to retire the IAF's remaining 4 MiG-21 squadrons in the next 3-4 years: IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari.
https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/14 ... 21025?s=20 ---> India's new Air Force chief announces that the IAF's 4 remaining MiG-21 squadrons will be retired over the next 3-4 years. Here's piece I wrote in 2019, where I argued that there's no better time to replace IAF MiG-21 with India's own Tejas.

Never A More Urgent Time To Replace The IAF’s MiG-21s With India’s Tejas
https://www.livefistdefence.com/never-a ... ias-tejas/
28 Feb 2019
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Apart from this news piece above, reportedly an earlier batch of 16 Mirage 2000s were acquired from France last year. See this below. Not sure what to make of it. Both the batch from last year (16 aircraft) and the second batch (24 aircraft) are all to be used only as spares.

Behind IAF’s new deal for Mirage 2000 spares is a 40-year saga of missed opportunities
https://theprint.in/defence/behind-iafs ... es/739614/
25 Sept 2021
The Indian Air Force signed a contract worth about Rs 300 crore with a French private firm on 31 August for the purchase of phased-out Mirage 2000 aircraft to be used as ‘Christmas trees’ for spares.

The French Air Force has fully phased out Mirage 2000s in favour of the Rafale, but India currently has a fleet of 50 Mirages still in service. This is the second deal the country has signed in the last one year to ensure spares for them — sources said the IAF had last year also signed an agreement with the French Air Force for supplying 16 phased-out Mirages, whose delivery was completed this year.
“Slowly, the Mirages are being phased out by countries which were using them. Production of spares will decrease over time, and eventually, they will have to be produced especially for us. This means that the cost will rise significantly, and hence, steps are being taken to ensure that we have spares in supply,” a source in the defence and security establishment told The Print.

Sources made it clear that contrary to certain reports, the steps taken by the IAF are “for supporting the existing fleet and improving availability”, and not for adding to the inventory of India’s Mirage 2000 fleet. “The deal is not for aircraft which can be flown,” a second source said.

Explaining the thinking behind the 31 August deal, sources said the Mirages purchased will come in containers as knocked-down versions. “There are parts of an aircraft which are used till breakdown; for example, the wings. If tomorrow any of our aircraft wings develops a crack, the wing from the second-hand aircraft can be used. Similarly, while Indian Mirages have a more powerful engine, 80 per cent of our engine is the same as the original, and hence many parts can be used as well,” a third source said.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by uddu »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 48581?s=20 ---> Here’s the IAF’s official 2021 #AirForceDay film.
Rakesh-ji, please update the link to the IAF youtube page, so that they get more traffic to their page.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Which is the fighter that exceeds the Mirage 2000I/TI? :mrgreen: This should be easy!

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14458 ... 86017?s=20 ---> Finest benchmark from the previous generation. Any fighter that exceeds Mirage-I/TI is worthy of service in the coming decade.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Tejas - MK2/MK1A
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Vivek K wrote:Tejas - MK2/MK1A
:mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Ask a great question ,,,,, get a great answer!!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 29383?s=20 ---> KSSL along with its strategic partner BAE systems has completed internal trials of the close-in weapon systems that it plans to offer to IAF for procurement of a new-generation CIWS to replace obsolete Swedish l-70 and Russian ZU-23-2B air defense systems.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 29383?s=20 ---> KSSL along with its strategic partner BAE systems has completed internal trials of the close-in weapon systems that it plans to offer to IAF for procurement of a new-generation CIWS to replace obsolete Swedish l-70 and Russian ZU-23-2B air defense systems.
Kalyani/bf is investing in defense with a quite a few products but no orders have been placed? The only one I can recall is for a few M4s. How long will a private company keep investing without orders ?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote:Which is the fighter that exceeds the Mirage 2000I/TI? :mrgreen: This should be easy!

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14458 ... 86017?s=20 ---> Finest benchmark from the previous generation. Any fighter that exceeds Mirage-I/TI is worthy of service in the coming decade.]
Coming decade? Ayyo Saar, there were fighters in the last 3 decades that exceeded the m2k... That's some benchmark when chief is saying we need 6th gen phyter and what not. Confused wonlee.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vips »

Atmavik wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 29383?s=20 ---> KSSL along with its strategic partner BAE systems has completed internal trials of the close-in weapon systems that it plans to offer to IAF for procurement of a new-generation CIWS to replace obsolete Swedish l-70 and Russian ZU-23-2B air defense systems.
Kalyani/bf is investing in defense with a quite a few products but no orders have been placed? The only one I can recall is for a few M4s. How long will a private company keep investing without orders ?
Not to forget they have kick started the development of aero engines in the Private sector with development completed on a coupe of mini jet engines which will be powering UAV's. They are also planning to develop a engine which will power light and medium helicopters.

Do not wnat to go OT but I always think - During an emergency situation when Army faced with declining number of 155mm howitzer guns due to non placement of orders, production of defective Dhanush and sub-optimal Sharangs will be forced to order purchase of Kalyani 155 MM, ULH and mounted guns.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Vips,

In an emergency situation no orders will be placed for domestic supplies before 20 years of summer, winter, desert, high altitude, submarine, lunar, martian, solar, & trials for the sake of trials.

Then it will be purchased for the emergency which existed 30 years ago.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jaysimha »

Indian Air Force has new web site..
Lot of new things in the gallery..

https://indianairforce.nic.in/#

-----------------------------------------

Indigenisation
https://indianairforce.nic.in/indigenisation/

Updated INDIGENISATION REQUIREMENTS INDIAN AIR FORCE
https://indianairforce.nic.in/wp-conten ... art-II.pdf
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Rakesh How much does this upgrade cost? And what components does HAL add to existing components?

Reason am asking is about 3-4 M2Ks can be salvaged from that new lot.
So can they be upgraded with these new components provided the airframe has enough life?
Rakesh wrote:In early October, the then new air chief - but now Air Marshal VR Chaudhuri - will likely be asked this question. The new Chief usually gives a press conference when they take over and Oct 08th (IAF Day) is also coming. I am certain, at least one member of the press will ask this question ---> are any of the used Mirage 2000s being acquired be made airworthy? Will they join active flying duties?

I for one am eager to know the answer.
Right from the horses' mouth - the Air Chief himself. None of the 24 Mirage 2000s being acquired will be used for flying. They will only be used as spares. Check out 1:20 in the video.

And the above video also confirms that 16 Mirage 2000s were acquired last year, for the same reason. At 2:18 in the video. So a total of 40 airframes (or around two squadrons worth) have been acquired for cannibalization. This should give the Mirage 2000 a robust fleet availability.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

In a few years more, they will admit the loss of the F-16 as well :lol:

Imran Khan Admits India Bombed Balakot

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

KaranM :)

https://twitter.com/_devildog_mm_/statu ... 73761?s=20 ---> Apparently the very first visual confirmation of succesful integration of SPJ with DPSA fleet. Seen here is a Jaguar IM armed with Elta 8222 High Band Jammer (HBJ). The airframe is taking part in Maiden India-UK joint Tri-Service Exercise: Konkan Shakti 2021.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

IAF chief says eastern Ladakh situation led to stretching of equipment to limits
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 60535.html
21 Oct 2021
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/_devildog_mm_/statu ... 42916?s=20 ---> Is that a Thales Vinten Digital Joint Reconnaissance Pod (DJRP)?

Image

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 99143?s=20 ---> Most likely.

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 96835?s=20 ---> Thales Digital Joint Reconnaissance Pod (DJRP) on IAF 9 BRD Army Postal Cover.

https://twitter.com/_devildog_mm_/statu ... 70599?s=20 ---> So Jaguar fleet has presently 3 examples of recce pods available: newer Litening, RecceLite and then old DJRP.

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 90498?s=20 ---> It could be the Vicon-91 pod, I don't know if Vicon-91 and DJRP look similar.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

IAF striving to be "Atmanirbhar & Saksham"

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

ramana wrote:Rakesh How much does this upgrade cost? And what components does HAL add to existing components?

Reason am asking is about 3-4 M2Ks can be salvaged from that new lot.
So can they be upgraded with these new components provided the airframe has enough life?
Dassault overhauls the entire airframe avionics architecture and adds a new radar, IFF, cockpit setup, RLG-INS with satnav, EW suite and OBOGS and mission computer. All these run on the French proprietary Digibus, plus Mica compatibility and new launchers. HAL adds a Dash helmet, plus new mission computer and compatibility with existing Litening, Spice, Crystal Maze using the 1553 data bus which talks to the digibus. Will hopefully allow us to add more weapons and sensors in the future.

Depending on the condition of the airframe, we may have to undertake a deep upgrade as Dassault did. That will take time and won't come cheap, and we might require French or Israeli input into how to bypass or use the digibus to add the primary eqpt. However if they already have a decent French origin fit which is still functional, we could restrict ourselves to what HAL did with the Mirage upgrade, add an additional Mission comp and 1553 dB, and use them as bomb trucks.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Karan M wrote:Depending on the condition of the airframe, we may have to undertake a deep upgrade as Dassault did. That will take time and won't come cheap, and we might require French or Israeli input into how to bypass or use the digibus to add the primary eqpt. However if they already have a decent French origin fit which is still functional, we could restrict ourselves to what HAL did with the Mirage upgrade, add an additional Mission comp and 1553 dB, and use them as bomb trucks.
Would this include a radar upgrade and bvr capability? I remember when they were still making a decision on the m2k path there was some argument in favor of doing a poor man's upgrade ala Shar via Israel. The Shar was derby capable using the 2032. Maybe the same could be done here?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Cain Marko wrote:
Karan M wrote:Depending on the condition of the airframe, we may have to undertake a deep upgrade as Dassault did. That will take time and won't come cheap, and we might require French or Israeli input into how to bypass or use the digibus to add the primary eqpt. However if they already have a decent French origin fit which is still functional, we could restrict ourselves to what HAL did with the Mirage upgrade, add an additional Mission comp and 1553 dB, and use them as bomb trucks.
Would this include a radar upgrade and bvr capability? I remember when they were still making a decision on the m2k path there was some argument in favor of doing a poor man's upgrade ala Shar via Israel. The Shar was derby capable using the 2032. Maybe the same could be done here?
The French Mirages had the RDI radar, and Super 530D. A few were upgraded to fire the Mica too. Depends on which we got.

Once Uttam matures we will have the capability to add our own radar, BVR etc to any platform.

Or you could move the Tejas MMR once the Mk1A get upgraded to the Mirage.

Remember though, the aircraft are old and getting progressively harder to sustain. That's partly why Greece moved to the Rafales vs upgrading its oldest Mirages which it retired.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Rakesh wrote:KaranM :)

https://twitter.com/_devildog_mm_/statu ... 73761?s=20 ---> Apparently the very first visual confirmation of succesful integration of SPJ with DPSA fleet. Seen here is a Jaguar IM armed with Elta 8222 High Band Jammer (HBJ). The airframe is taking part in Maiden India-UK joint Tri-Service Exercise: Konkan Shakti 2021.
Yes, if I am not mistaken - the DARIN-2 Jaguars have the Elta SPJ internally fitted. Check the nose fitment in the single seater.

Image

If I am not mistaken the first bump is the SPJ and the one behind that is the IFF. The RWRs are on the tail fin. On the 2 seater, the SPJ is on the right side (gun removed, you can see the radome), whereas the IMs carry the SPJ on a pylon.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Karan M wrote:
Cain Marko wrote: Would this include a radar upgrade and bvr capability? I remember when they were still making a decision on the m2k path there was some argument in favor of doing a poor man's upgrade ala Shar via Israel. The Shar was derby capable using the 2032. Maybe the same could be done here?
The French Mirages had the RDI radar, and Super 530D. A few were upgraded to fire the Mica too. Depends on which we got.

Once Uttam matures we will have the capability to add our own radar, BVR etc to any platform.

Or you could move the Tejas MMR once the Mk1A get upgraded to the Mirage.

Remember though, the aircraft are old and getting progressively harder to sustain. That's partly why Greece moved to the Rafales vs upgrading its oldest Mirages which it retired.
Yes. Maybe a limited LUSH type upgrade or a Desi version, might be worth a dekko. At this point every small capability and numbers increase might be worthwhile.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by KiranM »

Below is my back of envelope calculation 2025-40. The squadron numbers will go see-saw as old aircraft retire and new get inducted. Time and budget are the biggest factors.

Active squadrons - 33
Su30 MKI - 12
Rafale ISE - 2
LCA MK1 - 2
Mig29 - 3 ***
Mirage2k - 3 ***
Jaguar IM/IB - 6**
Mig 21 Bison - 5*

Ordered:
LCA Mk1A - 5* (replaces Bison)

Planned:
Su30 MKI - 1 (12 replacement + improved service)
Mig29 - 1 (21 additional)
MRFA - 5** - Rafale/ TEDBF (ORCA)
LCA MK2 - 7***
AMCA - 2 + 5 ^

Total - 35 + 7^ - 42

I look at IAF maintaining 3 classes of fighters due to OPEX & pilot availability with overlap of roles;
Heavy class - Air Dominance, SEAD & Strategic Bombing-
twin engined & 2 seater with large time on station
- Su30 MKI (future type TBD)
- roughly 13-15 squadrons

Staple class - DCA, Air interdiction, CAS -
preferably single engined single seater, with ability for higher sortie rates
- Mig21 & 29, M2k; to be replaced by LCA MK1 & 2
- roughly 15 squadrons

Special class - OCA, air interdiction, HVA (air/ surface) targeting -
twin engined preferably single seater with special attributes - to complement heavies
- currently Rafale & Jaguar, to be augmented & replaced respectively with MRFA and AMCA
- due to CAPEX 10-12 squadrons only
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

TWITTER

@TheWolfpackIn :
Report: IAF has upgraded its Operational DataLink (ODL) system to keep itself enabled as a net-centric force & allow fighter jets of different origin (Russia, France etc) to exchange tactical info/data in the air.
Fully jamproof & superior to Link 17/16 & Chinese ODLs with adversaries
__________________

@Daeroplate_v2:
Link16 is atleast 4 decades old with ioc in 1970s. Used in first gulf war. Real question is why did IaF neglect fleetwide datalinks all these years & now pat themselves for fitting a israeli set on limited platforms? Its a mundane part of life thing on any western AF. 20 yrs late
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@anon4india:
the same reason they didnt want LCA to begin with, while waiting 20 years for a new jet, why they want only 12 LCH or LUH and not a bulk order while waiting for ka22...its silly to assume that military is immune to stupidity and corruption which is staple ina developing nation
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 9VcnA&s=19


Mod Note:Do not call the AF names or accuse them of corruption without evidence.
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