Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Pratyush
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Check again, one is a MiG 29. So both rd 33 and AL31 are smoking in this picture.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

jamwal wrote:
https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1435 ... 72133?s=20 ---> The Stack Before The Storm. Varying Angles, One Goal.
Any idea why Sukhois have so much smoke behind them and none behind Rafale?
Smoky engines are hallmark of Russian engines. There is no Russian fighter without smoky engines ;)

Although I have been told that the RD-33MK found on the MiG-29K/KUB has reduced or eliminated the smoke from their turbofans. I am not sure how true that is.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by naird »

Rakesh wrote:
jamwal wrote: Any idea why Sukhois have so much smoke behind them and none behind Rafale?
Smoky engines are hallmark of Russian engines. There is no Russian fighter without smoky engines ;)

Although I have been told that the RD-33MK found on the MiG-29K/KUB has reduced or eliminated the smoke from their turbofans. I am not sure how true that is.
Except ofcourse when the same engines serves in mard-e-momin air force - then everything is a soundless fart.
Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

naird wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Smoky engines are hallmark of Russian engines. There is no Russian fighter without smoky engines ;)

Although I have been told that the RD-33MK found on the MiG-29K/KUB has reduced or eliminated the smoke from their turbofans. I am not sure how true that is.
Except ofcourse when the same engines serves in mard-e-momin air force - then everything is a soundless fart.
In certain regimes, I've even seen the tfta f22 engines leave a smoke trail. Even the latest eagles. Not the end of the world.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

40 Tejas Mk1 + 83 Tejas Mk1A = 123 aircraft. Minus 123 from 350 and there is a number of 227 aircraft.

Tejas Mk2 and AMCA will be in that 227 number.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 50338?s=20 ---> IAF is looking at procuring around 350 combat aircraft from within the country in the next two decades (19-20 yrs): IAF Chief.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 24641?s=20 ---> "Looking at the northern neighbour (China), we have to have 'Niche Technologies' which must be built in-house by our own industry for reasons of security", says IAF Chief.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 71040?s=20 ---> In-house tech will surprise enemies in next conflict, says IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal Bhadauria.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 05153?s=20 ---> MRSAM will be inducted tomorrow into the Indian Air Force. Defence Minister Rajnath Singh to attend the induction ceremony in Rajasthan.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 20773?s=20 ---> Like these!! Look forward to the MRSAM induction tomorrow!

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 89896?s=20 ---> MRSAM induction. Great going. LRSAM next and later S-500 Class.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 20163?s=20 ---> IAF is set to issue a Request for Proposal to five domestic start-ups for swarm drones, which are capable of both punitive action and load-carrying capabilities.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 50338?s=20 ---> IAF is looking at procuring around 350 combat aircraft from within the country in the next two decades (19-20 yrs): IAF Chief.
Looking To Procure Around 350 Aircraft In Next 20 Years: Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/looking-t ... -bhadauria
08 Sept 2021
He explained that India becoming self-reliant in the defence sector is integral to tackle several challenges.

“Looking at the northern neighbour, we have to have niche technologies which must be built in-house by our own industry for reasons of security,” the Chief of Air Staff was quoted in a report by the Press Trust of India (PTI).

The 62-year-old though added that procuring 350 aircrafts in the next 20 years is still only a ‘rough projection’.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:40 Tejas Mk1 + 83 Tejas Mk1A = 123 aircraft. Minus 123 from 350 and there is a number of 227 aircraft.

Tejas Mk2 and AMCA will be in that 227 number.
https://twitter.com/sharrmasumann/statu ... 62406?s=20 ---> IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria says - Looking at 350 aircraft in the next two decades, this includes the 83 LCAs.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srin »

^^ Aircraft means choppers also ...
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

The number being projected is not very reassuring. But it can change as and when our economy started to grow. But the HR related matters have to be thought off before any expansion of IAF take place.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

Whats not reassuring? That leaves 267 airframes between Tejas MWF and AMCA, six squadrons each assuming an even split. Or 9.4 squadrons worth of MWF and around 5 AMCA squadrons (around the same as today's Jags). If AMCA is ready earlier, they'll obviously move some of the Tejas MWF orders to the AMCA Mk1.

If there is no MMRCA, add another 126 airframes to the above numbers. These are huge numbers per our current economy.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by fanne »

We have plan B now at least. It will become plan A in due course and I have a feeling it will grow. It may very well be that 80% of IAF in 2040 will be indigenous and if we are say at 45 sq strength - then 36 sq will come from within the country - 700 planes.

LCA to jhaki hai, MWF and AMCA abhi baaki hai!!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by dkhare »

IAF MiG-29UPG Baaz courtesy of Neel @neel385 on Twitter.

Image

Noticed the internal SPJ that is part of the D-29 EW system at the bottom of the right rudder. Also noticed changes to the IR flare Counter Measure Dispensing System at the forward roots of the tail rudders. Did they combine flare & chaff into a more streamlined design than the exposed flare ones before? Or is the weird protrusion, mistaken for a hardpoint in earlier pictures, a flare dispenser pointing downwards?

Seeing two antennas closer to the wingtips too - all part of the new D-29 system I guess...
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sankum »

By 2040 for IAF to be 42 sq strength.
Su 30 mki 12sq.
Rafale 2sq
Tejas mk1 6 sq
Tejas mk2 6sq
AMCA 6 sq
There will still be shortfall of 10 sq to be filled by
2 sq additional Rafale
2 sq additional Tejas Lift
6 sq additional Tejas mk2 / AMCA/ MRFA

Additional fighters to be ordered is itself 22 sq i.e, 396 nos

Plus 123 tejas mk1/a and 33 Su 30/mig29 along with 36 Rafale on order. 192 total number of fighters on order/ cleared/delivered.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by dkhare »

More IAF MiG-29UPGs from IAF's Twitter handle courtesy of Wing Commander Indranil Nandi.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1435 ... 11908?s=20 ---> The original Airbender.....

Avatar - The MiG 29UPG.

Same, yet not the Same.

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

Fantastic shots! But I'm looking forward to the day when we get rid of those obsolete R-27's.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by viveks »

Didn't the upgraded 29res have the Zhuk-ME radar. They used to talk wonders about it back when harry used to post. Wonder what happened to him....he is nowhere around.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Are you referring to B Harry?
Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

dkhare wrote: Noticed the internal SPJ that is part of the D-29 EW system at the bottom of the right rudder. Also noticed changes to the IR flare Counter Measure Dispensing System at the forward roots of the tail rudders. Did they combine flare & chaff into a more streamlined design than the exposed flare ones before? Or is the weird protrusion, mistaken for a hardpoint in earlier pictures, a flare dispenser pointing downwards?

Seeing two antennas closer to the wingtips too - all part of the new D-29 system I guess...
I think you got it! Another question - what is hanging on the outermost pylons in some of the Baaz upgrade pics above? EW pods?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Anujan »

B Harry passed away some years back.

viewtopic.php?t=5345
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

Cain Marko wrote: I think you got it! Another question - what is hanging on the outermost pylons in some of the Baaz upgrade pics above? EW pods?
Those aren't the outer pylons (outer pylons aren't fitted in that pic). Those are the forward receive antennas of the D-29 suite I believe.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/1_Livid/status/1435 ... 35971?s=20 --->

Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile Air Defence System inducted into the 2204 Squadron of the IAF in Jaisalmer, Rajasthan.

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 68579?s=20 ---> 8 more squadrons to come.

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 28615?s=20 ---> Interesting details here, image (c) @1_Livid. Any better image available? Looks like the MRSAM was deployed since July 2020 (IOC workup?) with the formal induction now, indicating FOC.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/orbatnoob_3/status/ ... 27041?s=20 --->

The Indian Air Force inducted MRSAM today. Both posters state that each unit has 3 launchers with 8 missiles per launcher.

MRSAM 'unit' = 24 Missiles. Some ambiguity exists on what is an MRSAM squadron and Firing Unit (FU). IAF ordered 18 Firing Units.

Image

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/orbatnoob_3/status/ ... 97185?s=20 ---> 2 Firing Units with 3 Launchers each [48 Missiles] seems an overkill. How many Launchers can Elta-2084 support? 6 Launchers or just 3? So either 1 Firing Unit = 1 Squadron OR 1 FU = 1 Launcher. Even Google Earth doesn't seem to support 6 Launcher Theory. Maximum 4 concrete pads.

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 56464?s=20 ---> Can support upto to 6. My take is that the usual config is 3 MLUs. 18 firing units are on order, appear to be entirely self contained, so 18 VA/VPs protected as versus merely 9. The initial order is for 450 msls, translates to 432 @ 24 per FU, + spares/tests, reloads extra.

Image

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 95750?s=20 ---> Each launcher is not a FU. The composition of a FU is available from the horses mouth here (apart from the above info boards).

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

dkhare wrote:More IAF MiG-29UPGs from IAF's Twitter handle courtesy of Wing Commander Indranil Nandi.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1435 ... 11908?s=20 ---> The original Airbender.....

Avatar - The MiG 29UPG.

Same, yet not the Same.
These IAF MiG-29UPGs look so gorgeous. She is still an amazing fighter.

And Wing Commander Indranil Nandi is one amazing photographer. Kudos to him!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

dkhare wrote:More IAF MiG-29UPGs from IAF's Twitter handle courtesy of Wing Commander Indranil Nandi.

https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1435 ... 11908?s=20 ---> The original Airbender.....

Avatar - The MiG 29UPG.

Same, yet not the Same.
HVT Sir responded to the above tweet with this. Truly breathtaking photo.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/14361 ... 71524?s=20 --->

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Based on my reading of last few months - Is it safe to say now that we have indigenised most important Avionics ?

DARE's SPJ, DR118 (RWR), DC-MAWS, LRDE - AESA-GaAs & Also AESA based on GaN likely soon, DRDO Laser Targeting Pod, Others in kit from D29 Upgrade, IFFs; SDRs from BEL/ADTL Elbit JV , IRST.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by basant »

In the above Mig-29 pic, the right side windshield seem to have typical air bubbles seen in badly pasted cello tape. Can anyone please tell me what they actually are? Are they some weird reflections/refractions?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

2 Firing Units with 3 Launchers each [48 Missiles] seems an overkill.
Post balakot, Paki response was a swarm attack. A unit such as above will get max birds down with high kill probability compared to an AF response. Any survivors could then be picked off by LCAs/Rafales/MKIs...

PAF can perhaps manage to put up 2 swarm attacks at the most given their aircraft strength, serviceability, no of missiles they can equip their fighters with etc.

Or am I getting it all wrong ?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Rakesh wrote:Looking To Procure Around 350 Aircraft In Next 20 Years: Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/looking-t ... -bhadauria
08 Sept 2021
China has near about 1500 fighter jets (most of them not retiring) as of now vis-a-vis 600ish of ours . We will add 350 but also retire 200.

China is surely aiming to add atleast 1000 jets in next 20 years, likely more. They have done this before while we haven't done this (350).

We are probably going to be outnumbered 1:4! (not including what PAF with have against us).

This maths doesnt add up!!

<Wish> We should've added 250 MK1As this decade + 150 Mk2 </Wish>
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sankum »

According to HVT sir 6th gen warfare is 4 UCAV as buddy for single fighter. Expect 3000 buddy UCAV for 42 sq IAF.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by titash »

YashG wrote:China has near about 1500 fighter jets (most of them not retiring) as of now vis-a-vis 600ish of ours . We will add 350 but also retire 200.

China is surely aiming to add atleast 1000 jets in next 20 years, likely more. They have done this before while we haven't done this (350).

We are probably going to be outnumbered 1:4! (not including what PAF with have against us).

This maths doesnt add up!!

<Wish> We should've added 250 MK1As this decade + 150 Mk2 </Wish>
The fighter fleet will never have more than 50% aircraft flying with American engines. Expect at least 100 French and 200 Russian engined aircraft at all times.

If the UCAV fleet can be Kaveri powered, you can have them by the 1000s
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

nachiket wrote:
Cain Marko wrote: I think you got it! Another question - what is hanging on the outermost pylons in some of the Baaz upgrade pics above? EW pods?
Those aren't the outer pylons (outer pylons aren't fitted in that pic). Those are the forward receive antennas of the D-29 suite I believe.
Makes sense. But they do look ever cho chweet and cute.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

IDSA book on Combat Aviation.

https://idsa.in/system/files/book/comba ... -khera.pdf

For details of Mig 21 encounter with F 16 please read Chapter 9
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vivek K »

YashG wrote: <Wish> We should've added 250 MK1As this decade + 150 Mk2 </Wish>
That's IAF - always chasing their tail. They will never come close to the 42 squadron number. The only way is LCA.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

sankum wrote:According to HVT sir 6th gen warfare is 4 UCAV as buddy for single fighter. Expect 3000 buddy UCAV for 42 sq IAF.
Unless LO is implemented in the UCAV the force will be wiped out quite quickly.

The IAF needs to have more fighters. Mk2 ORCA, AMCA they have to reach a stage where production for the start by 2032-33 at the latest.

The IAF needs to start planning for 1800-2400 manned fighting force by 2040. Plus whatever number of UCAV they are going to need.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

sankum wrote:According to HVT sir 6th gen warfare is 4 UCAV as buddy for single fighter. Expect 3000 buddy UCAV for 42 sq IAF.
42 sqd is a relative number. If your enemy is 150 sqd, how do you manage with 42 ? China can field UCAVs too and has had them much before us. So UCAVs dont assure any level playing ground as such.
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