Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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ShivS
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ShivS »

nachiket wrote:I believe that is because single engined aircraft have been excluded from these flypasts and displays since the 1988 Mirage-2000 crash during the IAF anniversary display. You can see in the list that even the helicopters in the display are all twin engined. But the crash itself was a result of pilot error during aerobatics not engine failure.
The single engine exclusion is older. The Mirage 2000 air show was an exception. Wing Commander Bakshi made an error or lost control but stayed with the aircraft to take it away from the crowd. He did not even attempt an ejection though the aircraft was level for a bit before it hit the ground. That was a truly horrible year. We lost nearly 40-50 aircraft to crashes.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Tanmaycoolkarni/sta ... 36033?s=20 ---> Click link at left to see video.

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 39200?s=20 ---> 2 x Su-30MKIs from the No 15 Sqn 'Flying Lances' of @IAF_MCC as Defensive Counter Air (DCA) held up to 12 x F-16 OCA of @DGPR_PAF at bay on 27 Feb 2019. A peek into this elite Flanker Sqn of the IAF, where jets from the squadron are taking part in India's 75th Republic Day celebrations.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/_devildog_rv_/statu ... 87905?s=20 ---> Elbit's Integrated Helmet And Display Sight System (IHADSS) onboard an Indian Air Force AH-64E Apache.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Enjoy from 30:00 to 37:00 !

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Drag & Drop this into a new window for full size. A great and must read!

https://twitter.com/AnchitGupta9/status ... MwwxRJmN9A ---> Throwback: When India almost at the last moment, ditched the Jaguar for the Mirage-2000. Who would have known Indian Air Force would ultimately have both of them! "Indians ready to ditch low flying Jaguar: Peter Niesewand reports..." was published in The Guardian, 12 August 1980.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:Drag & Drop this into a new window for full size. A great and must read!

https://twitter.com/AnchitGupta9/status ... MwwxRJmN9A ---> Throwback: When India almost at the last moment, ditched the Jaguar for the Mirage-2000. Who would have known Indian Air Force would ultimately have both of them! "Indians ready to ditch low flying Jaguar: Peter Niesewand reports..." was published in The Guardian, 12 August 1980.
https://twitter.com/hvtiaf_/status/1488 ... _sgm2DRQCA ---> Incredible find @AnchitGupta9. Very insightful. Only aspect that has stood Jags in good stead is what the Indians have done to it, themselves. Direct supply NavWASS Jags punched way below their weight. Indian Inertial Organization's DARIN was ok. DARIN-2 good. DARIN-3 better.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf_/status/1488 ... _sgm2DRQCA ---> HF-25 with M-53 engine would have been better. From having a lead in the sub-continent, repeated imports threw us back by decades, not years. These two aircraft had nothing special that wasn't feasible within our country. Strategists were too lazy to analyze the long term impact.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Kunal_Biswas707/sta ... t3jf-fK8Tw ---> Formidable sight Of Indian Air Force AH-64E Guardian featuring updated AN/APG-78 Radar with Elbit PAWS-2 MAWS along with AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire missiles.

https://twitter.com/Indrani1_Roy/status ... t3jf-fK8Tw ---> Nice to see the ferry tanks on IAF Apache.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

S-400 Guided Missile. The Secrets Behind Production

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

S-400: What does it mean for India? By Air Marshal Anil Khosla (Retd).

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Good time pass watch

Edit: Not fully convinced by Angadji's arguments at the later part of the video
I will say that this is a good time pass watch
MRFA arguments understandable but I will not condone it
Still want to see ACM Chaudhari test fly the Tejas
Not happy with his directions so far.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Mort Walker »

Rakesh wrote:S-400: What does it mean for India? By Air Marshal Anil Khosla (Retd).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUf7NB ... e=emb_logo
This wasn't a particularly useful video as the retired Air Marshal couldn't say as much. You could tell he was holding back. The most useful information has been from Mihir Shah. This diagram of the S-400 is most useful.

Image

I had some questions for Mihir, but I've gotten no answer. Presumably the comms link between the command post, missile battery, and target acquisition radar. There are arrows indicating communication, but no indication of redundancy, or if one link goes down between missile battery and command post, would there be an alternate path between the missile battery and target acquisition radar? At a minimum, with the three different radars - each would have to pass target azimuth, elevation, range, velocity and time stamp accurate to within 1 micro-second. The command post radar computer could then use its algorithm to determine the target type and tracking. The last thing anyone wants is shooting down friendly or civilian targets in range.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Hiten »

.

a Commn Sq ERJ-135 has stayed in Portugal for over a week

https://www.spansen.com/2022/02/this-in ... tugal.html
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by wig »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ins-372182

Srinagar copter fratricide: General Court Martial of 2 IAF officers begins
extracts
Mi-17 helicopter was shot down in friendly fire near Srinagar in February 2019
Six Air Force personnel, including two pilots, and a civilian were killed
Those facing GCM are Group Captain SR Chowdhury, Wing Commander Shyam Naithani
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

The C17s are really proving their worth

Only issue is they have been used extensively in civilian rescue ops that airframe hours for the mil will have reduced. Pity we didn't buy more of them when they were available

PM Modi asks Indian Air Force to join Operation Ganga evacuation efforts, C-17 Globemaster likely to be deployed
In order to scale up the ongoing evacuation efforts under 'Operation Ganga', Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday asked the Indian Air Force (IAF) to join the evacuation efforts, sources said here.

"Leveraging the capacities of our Air Force will ensure that more people can be evacuated in a shorter time frame and it will also help deliver humanitarian aid more efficiently," the sources further said.

The Indian Air Force is likely to deploy several C-17 aircrafts as part of Operation Ganga from Tuesday, they added.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SidSoma »

Is there any specific reason more civilian ac were not used for the evacuation and C17s were called in ?
Other than CMDS do the C17s have any defence capabilities against AD missiles ??
Assuming that the greatest risk is from AD ala MH 17
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by basant »

AI being no more under GoI and self-protection (flares -- just in case) comes to mind.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Please like share and subscribe to CAPS. My favourite quote so far from the Air Chief.

"There is a need to wage tomorrow's wars with pragmatism and not necessarily idealism" :twisted:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Joke of the day. Enjoy with rum-whiskey onlee :)

I think the IAF meant aggressive 100 percent indigenization only for stationery and uniforms. Rest is all import onlee.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... TwWXaq7wUQ ---> The Indian Air Force is looking at a very aggressive 100 percent indigenization of the Force. The MRFA program has witnessed a few Covid related delays, but the program is going ahead: Indian Air Force.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

S-400 missile system supply to India will not be impacted due to sanctions: Russian Envoy
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 951871.cms
02 March 2022
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by asbchakri »

Rakesh wrote:S-400 missile system supply to India will not be impacted due to sanctions: Russian Envoy
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 951871.cms
02 March 2022
Glad to hear that, do you think they will be on time as scheduled or will be delayed. Currently the US has not yet decided on the CAATSA sanctions for this deal, hopefully it will not change.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

US can take CAATSA and shove it.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

asbchakri wrote:Glad to hear that, do you think they will be on time as scheduled or will be delayed. Currently the US has not yet decided on the CAATSA sanctions for this deal, hopefully it will not change.
At this stage, CAATSA is the least of the IAF's worries.

One can only hope what the Russian envoy is saying is true.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

ramana wrote:US can take CAATSA and shove it.
Personally I want India to be under CAASTA regime.

That's the only way a domestic MIC can be nurtured. Given the stupidity in our procurement process.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi D »

Pratyush wrote:
ramana wrote:US can take CAATSA and shove it.
Personally I want India to be under CAASTA regime.

That's the only way a domestic MIC can be nurtured. Given the stupidity in our procurement process.
Ideal medium term solution

But we need somethings quickly with China flexing its muscles
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Whatever comes quickly will take its own sweet time coming. Time that can be better utilised in solving production bottle necks within in the domestic industry.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Mihir »

Mort Walker wrote:I had some questions for Mihir, but I've gotten no answer. Presumably the comms link between the command post, missile battery, and target acquisition radar. There are arrows indicating communication, but no indication of redundancy, or if one link goes down between missile battery and command post, would there be an alternate path between the missile battery and target acquisition radar? At a minimum, with the three different radars - each would have to pass target azimuth, elevation, range, velocity and time stamp accurate to within 1 micro-second. The command post radar computer could then use its algorithm to determine the target type and tracking. The last thing anyone wants is shooting down friendly or civilian targets in range.
Hi Mort, sorry, I just saw this. The diagram I made was to give a general idea of how an AD unit was structured and operated, and is not a definitive description of the S-400. I do not know the exact communications devices they use, but I do know that all components are capable of communicating via radio-frequency datalinks. When deployed, you often see the CP, radar trucks, and TELs with raised antennae for communication.

A while ago, there was also chatter on Russian fora of a tube-launched UAV that could spool fiber optic cable behind it, and carry it to individual platforms. That would make the who system jam-proof and also reduce emissions. Schematics of the MR-SAM also show optical fibre and RF datalinks.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Sumeet »

Thank whichever God you want to thank; in hindsight I am so glad we didn't invest in PAK FA for various genuine reasons. Had it met IAF's requirement and Russia would have offered us a fair work share agreement we would be facing big problem today.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Sumeet wrote:Thank whichever God you want to thank; in hindsight I am so glad we didn't invest in PAK FA for various genuine reasons. Had it met IAF's requirement and Russia would have offered us a fair work share agreement we would be facing big problem today.
+1.3 Billion
ACM Raha, ACM Dhanoa and ACM Bhadauria are absolute gems
Also thanks to the various Scientific Advisors and Secretary DRDO
Special thanks to the Raksha Mantris as well
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

IAF postpones its Exercise Vayu Shakti 2022 firepower demonstration scheduled to be held on March 7 in Jaisalmer. The fresh dates of the firepower demonstration will be announced later: Government sources

148 aircraft incl Rafale aircraft were to take part in the exercise.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/14997645 ... 8cBK8a-QOA
Damn it
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Vayu Shakti canceled & Defexpo canceled.

The GOI knows & is preparing for some contingency that the aam aadmi isn't aware of
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Pratyush wrote:
ramana wrote:US can take CAATSA and shove it.
Personally I want India to be under CAASTA regime.

That's the only way a domestic MIC can be nurtured. Given the stupidity in our procurement process.
No. Dismiss and remove pension for those in the procurement process.
Its they who make the country beholden to imports.
Can any of these crooks say Agni is bad?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

MeshaVishwas wrote:
IAF postpones its Exercise Vayu Shakti 2022 firepower demonstration scheduled to be held on March 7 in Jaisalmer. The fresh dates of the firepower demonstration will be announced later: Government sources

148 aircraft incl Rafale aircraft were to take part in the exercise.
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/14997645 ... 8cBK8a-QOA
Damn it

Why damn it when its the prudent thing to do?
I hour in the air requires 7 hours of maintenance on average.
So 148*7 hours wasted instead of being at forward airbases.
For what?

In April 1999 while Kargil intrusion was going on undetected IAF was busy with air exercises and firepower demonstrations.
And took three weeks after being requested to support Army.

So this is a good decision to cancel the air show.
Am sure it was a PMO decision and not a service level decision.
If it was later would not even be planned with so much fanfare.

Read the Northern Command statement on reviewing Ukraine's invasion and making force adjustments.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nam »

Unusual to cancel vayu shakti for which they have been practicing today.

Looks like Mod suddenly remembered about vayu shakti and asked IAF to cancel it. Purely from log kya kayeghe perspective.

Su30 dropping tons on ordnance when the other Su30 are active in an war.. Very easy for propaganda to link the two..

The last vayu shakti khe badh..IAF went for airstrikes..
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Atmavik »

The global world order is in flux. Chinese or pakis( doubt they have any Aukat left) might come up with some tricks.

Better to wait and watch now
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

ramana wrote:

Why damn it when its the prudent thing to do?
I hour in the air requires 7 hours of maintenance on average.
So 148*7 hours wasted instead of being at forward airbases.
For what?

In April 1999 while Kargil intrusion was going on undetected IAF was busy with air exercises and firepower demonstrations.
And took three weeks after being requested to support Army.

So this is a good decision to cancel the air show.
Am sure it was a PMO decision and not a service level decision.
If it was later would not even be planned with so much fanfare.

Read the Northern Command statement on reviewing Ukraine's invasion and making force adjustments.
Ramana saar no problem with the reasoning, I am sure they took the right decision
Although I was hoping for a great show with brilliant images especially on the back of the lovely R day fly past

Some teasers shown were just lovely:
https://twitter.com/PRODefRjsthn/status ... 1ajGSzwW9Q
https://twitter.com/IAF_MCC/status/1499 ... 1ajGSzwW9Q
https://twitter.com/PRODefRjsthn/status ... a6SsDH8x6A


Dont mind waiting for the next show though.Especially since we have AI 2023 next year so. :D
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Mort Walker »

Mihir wrote: Hi Mort, sorry, I just saw this. The diagram I made was to give a general idea of how an AD unit was structured and operated, and is not a definitive description of the S-400. I do not know the exact communications devices they use, but I do know that all components are capable of communicating via radio-frequency datalinks. When deployed, you often see the CP, radar trucks, and TELs with raised antennae for communication.

A while ago, there was also chatter on Russian fora of a tube-launched UAV that could spool fiber optic cable behind it, and carry it to individual platforms. That would make the who system jam-proof and also reduce emissions.
Image also show optical fibre and RF datalinks.
Thank you for responding.

The S-400 command post and surveillance radar may be co-located where OFC can be used, but the target acquisition radar and engagement radar are suppose to be 6-8 KM away from the CP. The big advantage of the S-400 was that it was dispersed so if a missile battery was knocked out, another one could be moved within range of the CP to take its place.

Looking at the picture of 5P85SE-TEL Datalink Antenna is very useful. However, I haven't seen any pictures of OFC for the S-400 system, but it may exist. RF Data Links do fault frequently in a congested spectrum without jamming and although there is error correction, timing is an issue particularly for radar target acquisition and identification. At a minimum, each radar would have to provide azimuth, elevation, range, velocity and a time stamp accurate to less than 1 microsecond (this is time it takes for a radar pulse to travel 150 m roundtrip and within the blast radius of the missile warhead).

To me, the MRSAM system looks to be more reliable than the S-400, but the Russian 40N6E and other missiles appear to be quite capable. This is primarily due to the separation of the diesel power generation system from the radar or CP. Each of these radars will need very stable DC high voltages > 100KV and high current. Maintenance on the diesel generators is a huge issue. The US military has dedicated power generation squadrons for their surveillance and communication systems with very skilled electrical and electronics technicians. Actually, the MRSAM would benefit in a place like India with solar panels and large battery storage system as the requirement is DC voltage and not AC - I'm sure on the T&E Forum they'll love me for this. :rotfl:

Again, thanks for responding.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

ramana wrote:

Why damn it when its the prudent thing to do?
I hour in the air requires 7 hours of maintenance on average.
So 148*7 hours wasted instead of being at forward airbases.
For what?

In April 1999 while Kargil intrusion was going on undetected IAF was busy with air exercises and firepower demonstrations.
And took three weeks after being requested to support Army.

So this is a good decision to cancel the air show.
Am sure it was a PMO decision and not a service level decision.
If it was later would not even be planned with so much fanfare.

Read the Northern Command statement on reviewing Ukraine's invasion and making force adjustments.
THREE WEEKS ????

NO SIR

As much as i remember IA formally asked IAF through "proper channels i.e. RM etc. IAF asked for 24 hours primarily to put all its assets on alert. IAF did start action much before 24 hours. This is what i recollect, its 24 years !!!!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

DEF EXPO CANCELLED
:(( :(( :(( :(( :((
I have made most of the travel arrangements.
:(( :(( :(( :(( :((

I think Vayu Shakti and DEF EXPO are cancelled as our forces would be on high alert lest our (un)friendly neighbours may try some tricks

I say a good decision
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Armuan »

I heard it was also because many foreign vendors wouldn't be coming to the DefExpo due to the situation in Ukraine. Saw in one of the Youtube video channels. Don't recall which.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi D »

Mort Walker wrote:
Mihir wrote: Hi Mort, sorry, I just saw this. The diagram I made was to give a general idea of how an AD unit was structured and operated, and is not a definitive description of the S-400. I do not know the exact communications devices they use, but I do know that all components are capable of communicating via radio-frequency datalinks. When deployed, you often see the CP, radar trucks, and TELs with raised antennae for communication.

A while ago, there was also chatter on Russian fora of a tube-launched UAV that could spool fiber optic cable behind it, and carry it to individual platforms. That would make the who system jam-proof and also reduce emissions.
Image also show optical fibre and RF datalinks.
Thank you for responding.

The S-400 command post and surveillance radar may be co-located where OFC can be used, but the target acquisition radar and engagement radar are suppose to be 6-8 KM away from the CP. The big advantage of the S-400 was that it was dispersed so if a missile battery was knocked out, another one could be moved within range of the CP to take its place.

Looking at the picture of 5P85SE-TEL Datalink Antenna is very useful. However, I haven't seen any pictures of OFC for the S-400 system, but it may exist. RF Data Links do fault frequently in a congested spectrum without jamming and although there is error correction, timing is an issue particularly for radar target acquisition and identification. At a minimum, each radar would have to provide azimuth, elevation, range, velocity and a time stamp accurate to less than 1 microsecond (this is time it takes for a radar pulse to travel 150 m roundtrip and within the blast radius of the missile warhead).

To me, the MRSAM system looks to be more reliable than the S-400, but the Russian 40N6E and other missiles appear to be quite capable. This is primarily due to the separation of the diesel power generation system from the radar or CP. Each of these radars will need very stable DC high voltages > 100KV and high current. Maintenance on the diesel generators is a huge issue. The US military has dedicated power generation squadrons for their surveillance and communication systems with very skilled electrical and electronics technicians. Actually, the MRSAM would benefit in a place like India with solar panels and large battery storage system as the requirement is DC voltage and not AC - I'm sure on the T&E Forum they'll love me for this. :rotfl:

Again, thanks for responding.

Pardon my ignorance. What is OFC ?

I think we should stick to DG sets for power generation for the air defence systems.

Solar power ? The huge area required for solar panels could be dead give away that there is AD system nearby. The large solar panels would be very susceptible to an aerial attack.
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