Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Haridas
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Haridas »

Rakesh wrote: The current generation of senior IAF leadership are all 80s vintage. In the 80s, the IAF was going through a massive transformation. The 70s saw the Ajeets, Maruts, Su-7s, etc all retire. And that was replaced with a mixture of Western and Russian combat aircraft ---> Jaguar IS, Mirage 2000, MiG-23, MiG-25, MiG-27 and MiG-29 ....

....This current impasse of I-must-have-114-phoren-fighters-and-will-hold-my-breath-till-I-turn-BLUE is coming from a generation of IAF leaders who have not had a very pleasant experience with HAL when they were junior pilots (Pilot Officers, Flying Officers, Flight Lieutenants,) in the 80s. You have some rare stand outs - like Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria - but they are too few. By the 2030s, the 90s-vintage commission officers will start effecting valuable Atmanirbhar Bharat change into the IAF and the 2000s-vintage officers (who will start getting leadership roles in the 2040s), will only accelerate on that gas pedal.

The goal right now though is to hold out and hope that this lot of 80s-vintage commissioned officers don't make too much of a mess for the next generation of IAF leaders to clean up. So hopefully the GOI will see the wisdom .......
Symptoms of an officer crop caught in past unable/unwanting to learn and be young in strategy and performance.

It is such a useless apex of pyramid that IAF would be better off to do a fresh out of collage recruitment drive for Air Marshal position !!!! Qty-12

Pressure steam deep cleaning to take out the grime.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Zynda wrote:Just thinking if US recently offered additional Chinook's at discounted prices to entice India to cancel additional Mi-17 orders. IAF is quite happy with Chinooks. If Chinook is assembled in India & US is offering a good rate, I don't see any reason why GoI wouldn't jump on the deal...although Chinook & Mi-17 are in different categories...
Why must We look at a gift horse in the mouth. The press reports clearly state that India is buying these helos to support make in India with IMRH platform.

No reason to doubt that.

WRT, additional Chinook's they will have to be acquired regardless of what other choppers IAF is going to acquire. As it appears from defense media that India has built it's strategy in East on mobility provided by the machines. Is such strategy really exists. Then just 12 machines are not going to cut it.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote: Ramana-ji, the Air Chief is pushing for additional Rafales. This exasperation of multiple types is aimed at a particular audience i.e. the GOI. Air HQ does not want the MRFA contest to progress. They just want 114 Rafales. Running a contest will just take extraordinarily long. None of the other contestants have the advantage that the Rafale currently has i.e. an in-service 4th+ generation multi role fighter that can prevail over anything the PLAAF produces. That includes even their "supposed" 5th generation aircraft like the J-20 or J-31.
I'm not so sure how long this advantage will last for the Rafale - the J20 and its follow on have a leg up in terms of shaping. It is a matter of time before they figure out engines and sensor fusion. Hopefully, the AMCA will be online by then and a more potent layered ADS.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Cain Marko wrote:I'm not so sure how long this advantage will last for the Rafale - the J20 and its follow on have a leg up in terms of shaping. It is a matter of time before they figure out engines and sensor fusion. Hopefully, the AMCA will be online by then and a more potent layered ADS.
Which of the other contestants in the MRFA competition will have an advantage over the J-20, if shaping is the fundamental criteria?

Sensors, Radar, Shaping, Engine, Weapons, etc all fused together create an effective VLO platform. We are assuming the Chinese have that platform at their disposal, based on what we are seeing in photographs and videos. Add the Chinese propensity for bluster & propaganda and you have a harvest ripe for the picking - fear mongering, also known as dhoti shivering on BRF.

If the J-20 was all that it is claimed to be, why is the IAF holding a competition for 114 fourth generation fighter aircraft? None of them have the VLO characteristics of a J-20. What does the IAF know about the J-20 that we on BRF do not? Take a look at one of China's main adversaries in the South China Sea i.e. Taiwan. They just bought new build F-16 Block 70s and are upgrading their present F-16s to the same standard. But if J-20 is VLO - as OSINT folks claim - why invest in the F-16 Block 70?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avinandan »

Rakesh Saar,
Not discounting the J20 propaganda.

However your arguments do not suffice.

IAF is holding competition of 114 4th gen fighters because they are forced to do so.
There are no 5th Gen Fighters in the market to procure from US wont give JSF and Russia's Su-57 was rejected long back. Rest all are paper planes.
I am sure IAF would have happily lapped up F-35 if given a chance.

Same for Taiwan, they don't have options for 5th Gen and the logical choice of having a common force would be invest in F-16 which they already had.
In-fact, US in the last decade had refused to provide F-16s to Taiwan. Mirage 2000 would have been option too, but the production is closed.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Avinandan: There are only two 5th generation fighter planes right now - the F-22 and the F-35. Of these two...only the F-35 can be exported. The IAF is not interested in the F-35 and they have said so.

No request made to US for F-35 fighter jet, says IAF chief B S Dhanoa
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... a-5082304/
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has denied that it has shown explicit interest in procuring the American F-35 Lightning II aircraft for its depleting fighter fleet. The reports about IAF approaching Lockheed Martin for a classified briefing on the F-35 came amid news that the government haperhas decided to scrap the proposal to make a single-engine foreign fighter in India. “We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.
Regardless of the above, the US will now not sell the F-35 to India because of the S-400. India will not give up the S-400 and the US will not sell the F-35 as a result. If I am not mistaken, a presentation was made to the Indian Navy on the F-35B around 12 years back. This was way before any S-400 discussion and when MMRCA 1.0 was in full swing. India, the US and the world have moved on since then and not necessarily for the better.

The F-35 is obviously the logical choice to succeed the F-16 in many countries that operate the latter. Even in countries that do not operate the F-16, have chosen the F-35. Canada is a good example. Taiwan could very well end up with the F-35 in the future. But for now, they are focused on their F-16 fleet. The J-20, while formidable, is not all that she is made out to be by OSINT folks and the PLAAF. The aircraft has a long way to go before she can be an effective VLO platform.

The IAF has an aversion to US fighters, yet purchases a host of other US platforms (heavy lift aircraft, transport aircraft, transport helicopters and even attack helicopters). This aversion was even documented in an official GOI report. If and when the MRFA contest is concluded, it remains to be seen if that aversion still exists.

They want 114 fourth generation fighters because the chosen platform can easily slot into their current ORBAT. They envision the future force structure with 36 Rafales + 114 phoren fighters + AMCA + Tejas Mk1A. The Air Chief and the other officers at Air HQ is publicly stating this at every opportunity they get. No one is forcing them. In fact, they would rather go in for 114 MRFA than invest in the Tejas Mk2. They want that deal to go through and they still believe it will. This is today's news piece.

For its USD 20 billion 114 fighter jet deal, IAF in favour of ‘Buy Global Make in India’ route
https://theprint.in/world/for-its-usd-2 ... te/925221/
21 April 2022
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

And the circus continued.

What license production in India folks have never understood is that the materials that India will make for such an aircraft will amount to under 30 % of the value of the finished product. Whereas over 70% in value of the finished product will be imported from the home country.

Couple that with the exchange rates fluctuations. You end up paying more in rupee terms. Unless the Indian rupee greatly appreciated as compared to Euro or dollars.

A losing proposition, if ever there was one.
Cain Marko
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Rakesh wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:I'm not so sure how long this advantage will last for the Rafale - the J20 and its follow on have a leg up in terms of shaping. It is a matter of time before they figure out engines and sensor fusion. Hopefully, the AMCA will be online by then and a more potent layered ADS.
Which of the other contestants in the MRFA competition will have an advantage over the J-20, if shaping is the fundamental criteria?

Sensors, Radar, Shaping, Engine, Weapons, etc all fused together create an effective VLO platform. We are assuming the Chinese have that platform at their disposal, based on what we are seeing in photographs and videos. Add the Chinese propensity for bluster & propaganda and you have a harvest ripe for the picking - fear mongering, also known as dhoti shivering on BRF.

If the J-20 was all that it is claimed to be, why is the IAF holding a competition for 114 fourth generation fighter aircraft? None of them have the VLO characteristics of a J-20. What does the IAF know about the J-20 that we on BRF do not? Take a look at one of China's main adversaries in the South China Sea i.e. Taiwan. They just bought new build F-16 Block 70s and are upgrading their present F-16s to the same standard. But if J-20 is VLO - as OSINT folks claim - why invest in the F-16 Block 70?
I think the IAF is doing what it can in lieu of a true 5Gen platform - there isn't one available off the shelf. The Rafale is the next best thing. Taiwan makes do with what it can get, which the West sells keeping in mind Chinese sensitivities. Note how the French refused to sell M2ks a few years back after Chinese pressure. Basically, something is better than nothing, and until the Chinese get the J20 right, and in numbers, souped up 4.5 gen fighters in numbers will make a difference.

WRT J20 - Shaping is an imperative to VLO - the other stuff can come - EMCON, sensor fusion etc...but to get a planform correct, alignments in order and a proper skin/RAM coating - these are defining of VLO. From mere eyeball (and admittedly imperfect) observation, the J20 has got a lot of things right. As such, it will be a force to reckon with once it has better engines, radar, fusion etc. If/when the Chinese achieve parity in these aspects, and there is every reason to believe that they will. Not unlike their cellphones and cars - initially these were quite inadequate, but now they can compete with the global peers. Similar to the J10 as well - I recall how in the early/mid 2000s there were hardly a few frames, and most online armchair generals dissed these as poor Lavi copies. And all of a sudden (quite literally) they had over 200 produced, and nobody underrates that bird anymore.

Rest assured, when the J20 (or its Gen 2.0 versions) start coming online in large numbers, I fully expect the IAF to whine about getting some phoren filly - most probably the FGFA/Pakfa (or possibly even a small force of F35). I truly hope that AMCA is ready to move in at that time. I'm guessing this will be around/post 2030.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

FWIW, BoJo has come with a delegation comprising BAE, RR etc, "offering" India to join the Tempest program.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by vinod »

Cain Marko wrote:
Rest assured, when the J20 (or its Gen 2.0 versions) start coming online in large numbers, I fully expect the IAF to whine about getting some phoren filly - most probably the FGFA/Pakfa (or possibly even a small force of F35). I truly hope that AMCA is ready to move in at that time. I'm guessing this will be around/post 2030.
How does J20 being added can be defended with adding another stealth plane? Don't you need better detection and better anti-stealth missile capabilities?
I'm sure you can compensate with better tactics than buying expensive foreign planes.
If it is like rich neighbour kid having latest toy and hence we want it too kind of logic, then we would be bankrupt
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by brar_w »

The logic behind a LO counter to a LO in the air domain is that you erode the advantage that the enemy has with LO platforms by now forcing it to go on the defense to hunt for other LO platforms, and by denying it the ability to pick you at long range and get several shots in (basically dictate the engagement given the detection range advantage). This is why introduction of LO fighters at scale has almost led to a mad rush of LO fighters being developed or desired around the world. Of course this wouldn't be the only thing you'd beef up (it applies to ground defenses, command control, and fielding missiles with seekers that can overcome the combined effect of low-rcs and ECM).
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vips »

India arming Russian Mi-17 helicopters with Israeli NLOS anti-tank guided missiles.

In a step towards enhancing its firepower against enemy armoured regiments, India is arming its Russian Mi-17 helicopters with the Israeli ‘Non-Line of Sight (NLOS)’ anti-tank guided missiles.

The ATGMs can fly low in mountainous areas and can hit ground targets from distances up to 30 kms, top government sources told India Today.

According to the sources, the missiles have already arrived in the country and are being deployed on Russian helicopters somewhere in the western sector.

The Indian armed forces are implementing the lessons learnt from the Russia-Ukraine conflict where tanks and anti-tank missiles have come into play in a big way. The Ukrainian forces have used the anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles supplied by the Western European nations and America effectively against the Russian armoured columns, sources said.

India is also likely to deploy these armed choppers in the high mountainous terrain in Ladakh and adjoining sectors where the Chinese have positioned a large number of their armoured regiments.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by kit »

Cyrano wrote:FWIW, BoJo has come with a delegation comprising BAE, RR etc, "offering" India to join the Tempest program.
i think they want to "spread" the costs with the Japanese and now India

https://thediplomat.com/2022/02/japan-u ... velopment/


Signed by both the U.K. and Japanese governments on February 15, the Letter of Arrangement (LOA) covers cooperative work on a universal radio-frequency (RF) sensor technology, known as the Japan and Great Britain Universal Advanced RF system (JAGUAR).

This new advanced sensor technology is meant to be used for the U.K.-led Tempest, which is being developed under the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) program, and the Japanese next-generation F-X (unofficially referred to as the F3) program.

“The JAGUAR enables us to instantly observe a wider area than before with digitally computed multiple receiving beams,” it said in a tweet on February 15. “The Japanese Ministry of Defense expects that the outcomes of this cooperative research will be utilized to enhance the capability of our RF sensor for a fighter in the future,” it added.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sohamn »

Vips wrote:India arming Russian Mi-17 helicopters with Israeli NLOS anti-tank guided missiles.

In a step towards enhancing its firepower against enemy armoured regiments, India is arming its Russian Mi-17 helicopters with the Israeli ‘Non-Line of Sight (NLOS)’ anti-tank guided missiles.

The ATGMs can fly low in mountainous areas and can hit ground targets from distances up to 30 kms, top government sources told India Today.

According to the sources, the missiles have already arrived in the country and are being deployed on Russian helicopters somewhere in the western sector.

The Indian armed forces are implementing the lessons learnt from the Russia-Ukraine conflict where tanks and anti-tank missiles have come into play in a big way. The Ukrainian forces have used the anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles supplied by the Western European nations and America effectively against the Russian armoured columns, sources said.

India is also likely to deploy these armed choppers in the high mountainous terrain in Ladakh and adjoining sectors where the Chinese have positioned a large number of their armoured regiments.

What is stopping them in setting up the same in Rudra and LCH? Is it the same import lobby?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Rudra and LCH - weight perhaps. SPike NLOS is a 70 Kg missile.
The other aspect to this missile likely to be its use in a GRound to Ground mode. Armr will be a very secondary role I think considering Mi17 is not likely to be used in any offensive role in a AD dense env unless for troop insertion etc at scale. - JMT
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/iaf-eyes- ... ery-report

Every time I see this, it sets my teeth on edge. The sheer brazenness of the IAF leadership in defying Atmanirbharta and thinking the GOI/people are so gullible that they can pass of the 114 MRFA offset screwdriver-giri as some sort of Make-in-India initiative!

Before this gets too far, Modi Ji & Shri RNS must publicly kill the MRFA tamasha. A stern message must be sent.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Imported Air Force has been too clever for its own good.

First Tejas was deliberately stunted by ridiculous demand that it be same length as mig 21; why? Because then it can use mig 21 shelters as Tejas itself is replacement of mig 21s. They deliberately stunted Tejas so they can limit the number of Tejas to be inducted.

They created farce like mmrca a joke on our nation where Grippen was also MEDIUM WEIGHT, a 30 Ton F-18 also a medium weight. Is the brass retarded? Or just addicted to IMPORT?

They even had man like Pravin vasant naik as chief who called 3 legged Cheetah!

Now bigger joke in MRFA where tiny grippen and 13.5 ton payload carrying f15 are all participating alongside su 35!

Intelligent Parrikar saw through their dirty games and forced them to induct 83 Tejas more.

Just a bunch of fighter jock club who want imported Bugatti only.

Now choudhury refuses to utter even the name Tejas but chants mrfa.... mrfa..... mrfa on every platform every interview
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Someone inform HAL that no more LCHs please.

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... _V3pG7ixJw ---> Boeing has pitched 60 units of AH-64 Apaches to the Indian Armed Forces. They also suggested that IAF needs more Longbow radar.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... _V3pG7ixJw ---> The Indian Air Force is all set to table a proposal to buy more Boeing CH-47 Chinook.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

I don't believe that additional ah64 will be ordered by the GOI. Longbow is a different issue. But let's wait and see.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by kit »

Pratyush wrote:I don't believe that additional ah64 will be ordered by the GOI. Longbow is a different issue. But let's wait and see.
Longbow for Rudra / LCH :twisted:
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Jay »

Manish_Sharma wrote:Imported Air Force has been too clever for its own good.

First Tejas was deliberately stunted by ridiculous demand that it be same length as mig 21; why? Because then it can use mig 21 shelters as Tejas itself is replacement of mig 21s. They deliberately stunted Tejas so they can limit the number of Tejas to be inducted.

They created farce like mmrca a joke on our nation where Grippen was also MEDIUM WEIGHT, a 30 Ton F-18 also a medium weight. Is the brass retarded? Or just addicted to IMPORT?

They even had man like Pravin vasant naik as chief who called 3 legged Cheetah!

Now bigger joke in MRFA where tiny grippen and 13.5 ton payload carrying f15 are all participating alongside su 35!

Intelligent Parrikar saw through their dirty games and forced them to induct 83 Tejas more.

Just a bunch of fighter jock club who want imported Bugatti only.

Now choudhury refuses to utter even the name Tejas but chants mrfa.... mrfa..... mrfa on every platform every interview
With the Russ-Ukr war afoot and Russia rapidly losing its production capabilities, our chickens will be coming home to roost. This dependency on Russia alone will put the Sukhoi upgrade, S400 deployment, S300 replenishment, mi8/17 upgrades/parts replacement, Mig 21/29 spares availability in jeopardy.

For SU upgrades, if we have means to take care of the engines, we might be safe as at this point we are producing almost all the critical parts.

I will be very surprised if our S400 deployment/validations go on without any pause. More than this, Russia's capability to produce missiles used in the S400 umbrella is severely compromised because of sanctions regime. Same with S300 family.

We operate close to 250 MIL-MI8/17/24 variants in IAF alone and as far as I know we are still dependent on Russia for spares. Russia losing dozens of these helicopters will be prioritizing all the available spares for themselves.

Mig 21 retirement might be fast tracked because of this as there is no point in keeping them longer. For Mig 29's we are very much dependent on Russia as it seems.

Seeing all this, if IAF wants to diversify now, the opportunity cost of getting non Russian platforms has gone up significantly now. With Russia out of the picture in the near term, every available seller will drive a hard bargain.

Only way out of this mess is to align our ducks and going full "atmanirbhar". Let's see where IAF stands in a year or three from now.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Jay wrote:Seeing all this, if IAF wants to diversify now, the opportunity cost of getting non Russian platforms has gone up significantly now. With Russia out of the picture in the near term, every available seller will drive a hard bargain.

Only way out of this mess is to align our ducks and going full "atmanirbhar". Let's see where IAF stands in a year or three from now.
We will not learn our lesson. We will import onlee.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by fanne »

Sorry the first order of work is 114 MRFA (and it has be from a particular country if you read IAF lips). If that does not happen, they will not even buy a kite from anywhere, forget a plane.
Why you may ask, we all know the elephant in the room, but just not name it yet.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

https://twitter.com/dhwaj99/status/1519 ... 3Qu6Q&s=19

Instead of wasting money on 4th generation imported fighter aircraft @narendramodi ji we better order:
A Tejas Mk 1 = 360 aircrafts
B Tejas Mk2 = 540 aircrafts
C Surface to surface Missiles Pragati-Prahaar-Nirbhay-Bramhos = 90,000
One fighter costs 25,000$ per hour flying
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... RNYcOghErA ---> Report: IAF to receive 3rd S-400 sqn next month from Russia. IAF has already started training courses on the S400 training system supplied by Russia in March.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... U9jNOuf4uQ ---> "Repair will not only reduce cost & failures but will also ensure better performance of equipment in long run and we call out to MSMEs to join the indigenisation efforts of IAF," says Air Marshal Vibhas Pande, Air Officer-in-Charge Maintenance, Indian Air Force.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Anujan »

Buyback by govt, IAF dues behind HAL financial woes
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... XA5EP.html
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has paid Rs 9,406 crore in three years — 2015-16, 2016-17, and 2017-18 — to the government of India as dividend to buyback its shares and as tax on buyback and dividend, according to the financial statements of the company and documents accessed by Hindustan Times, perhaps explaining the poor financial health of the state-owned company.

Over a five year period, including 2013-14 and 2014-15, the number increases to Rs 11,024 crore.

In addition, the so-called receivables (or amount owed for completed work) on its books are a staggering Rs 15,000 crore, with much of this being owed to the company by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

As a result, the company has frequently borrowed from banks and financial institutions to meet its operational expenditure.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Sir this is a 2019 report when Rahul Gandhi was claiming BJP was shutting down HAL and giving Rafale deal to Anil Ambani group and out 59000 crore , 40000 crore was going the Ambani's and cost of Rafale is only 550 crore per aircraft.Facts turned out to be different, and some Babus probably delayed HAL payments.

In my humble opinion this particular article is not relevant in today's context
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jaysimha »

IAF’s Force Structure: Strategy for Overcoming the Crisis
By Air Marshal M Matheswaran
May 12, 2022
Aligned with its national security interests, India’s strong geostrategic role-play, amidst the changing world order as a rising military power, aerospace power in particular must be rooted in the Indian industry
https://raksha-anirveda.com/iafs-force- ... he-crisis/
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... vXBn6uuVDg ---> Indian Air Force has extended the RFI submission date for the Long Range Guidance Kit with Warhead to 05 July 2022.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Along the lines of the French Air and Space Force (Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace)?

IAF should become an ‘Aerospace Force’ — Rajnath Singh, Defence Minister
https://www.sps-aviation.com/story/?id= ... e-Minister
May 2022
The Defence Minister added that to protect our assets from space-guided attacks, IAF should operate on technology, developing expertise and human resource management.
Rakesh
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

This can only be employed where the IAF has total air superiority ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6252&p=2549694#p2549694
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ArjunPandit »

Rakesh wrote:This can only be employed where the IAF has total air superiority ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6252&p=2549694#p2549694
we tend to assume that bakis will have tfta air defence and manpads at all places...after 1 week paf or whatever is left of it will not be there to provide a cover to a lot of army ..these could be helpful in those cases, esp when we would have taken losses too
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

ArjunPandit wrote:
Rakesh wrote:This can only be employed where the IAF has total air superiority ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6252&p=2549694#p2549694
we tend to assume that bakis will have tfta air defence and manpads at all places...after 1 week paf or whatever is left of it will not be there to provide a cover to a lot of army ..these could be helpful in those cases, esp when we would have taken losses too
Arjun manpads by their very nature mean that they are difficult to neutralise. Static and even mobile AD platforms are easier to neutralise but think of manpads as ATGM's. So the threat will always remain even if the IAF gains complete air supriority.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

TFTA, hindu hatred means they will fight hard, manpads and ATGM will be there for quite a bit of time. We need ensure they don't have enough resources to fight- Harbors taken out, airbases taken out, fuel ,food Ammo depots destroyed and electricity grid out telecommunication grid. With Nuke missile launchers destroyed

Not an easy task or which can be taken on emotional moment when the eventual Pak based terror attack happens.

It needs cold calculated build up with much media noise. Meanwhile enrich , make the quality of life good for Indian citizens and only Madrassa education for Pakis. Artillery tables should be complicated for them.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Aditya_V wrote:TFTA, hindu hatred means they will fight hard, manpads and ATGM will be there for quite a bit of time.
They may have a lot of hatred, but that doesn't always translate into "fight hard". We all saw how the haters fought in 1971. Not much stomach for fighting in these hateful types imho.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by mody »

Manpads have a range of about 5-6 Kms. These are generally not useful against high flying aircrafts or even MALE and HALE UAVs. The UAVs typically fly at around 28K to 35 K altitude for MALE UAVs and between 40-50K altitude for HALE UAVs. Manpads cannot reach such heights.
Manpads are effective mainly against helicopters and low flying airplanes, engaged in ground attack role. Hence, the big move towards stand off range precision guided weapons.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Nice that he sat (and possibly flew) in a Japanese F-2.

But when is he going to sit in a Tejas Mk1 for a test flight? This should be a mandatory ritual now for all Air Chiefs. At least once a year, he needs to lead a Tejas formation, with his boys at No 45 or No 18 Squadron at Bangalore. Messaging and Perception go a long way. This has to be reminded to him??? Raha Sir flew in a Tejas, Dhonoa Sir flew in a Tejas and so did Bhadauria Sir. What is wrong with this Air Chief???

https://twitter.com/HellHoundIN/status/ ... Bz57RoPJ4g ---> ACM Chaudhari flew in a F2 it seems and got a nice look at a GE F110 at Hyakuri.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ArjunPandit »

Cain Marko wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:TFTA, hindu hatred means they will fight hard, manpads and ATGM will be there for quite a bit of time.
They may have a lot of hatred, but that doesn't always translate into "fight hard". We all saw how the haters fought in 1971. Not much stomach for fighting in these hateful types imho.
we cant base our war plans on that...bd was anyways something they were happy to cut off from endia but not happy to assimilate as in the words of the bakis were similar to south indians or bengalis..they were not like punjabis..also the west bakis have almost unlimited supply of men and basic equipment to fight in west bakistan
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