Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Karan M
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Karan M »

fanne wrote:Now that 3/31 is gone, npo one wants to discuss why IAF gave back $ 3 billion (24,000 carore rupees) worth of capital budget back. Dereliction of duty?
Will only buy foreign maal and nothing else, will force the country to the brink?
These are next year's funds. Till March 31, 2024. They've dropped those and moved them to some other deals. The overall capex budget would remain around the Rs 50-60K Cr level basically.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/16432 ... 30784?s=20 ---> So, my Squadron also got the DARIN-III upgrade with AESA radar and the works.

Image
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

India to carry out maiden firing of its Russian-origin S-400 air defence system "soon"
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 404194615/
04 April 2023
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Re: Indian .Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Click on link below for VIDEO.

Disclaimer --> In the video, only the news anchor mentions it...while the former Air Chief just nods his head. Will have to wait for confirmation. But if true, this would be big news. I am trying to find the actual interview. If someone comes across it, please post.

https://twitter.com/Defencecore/status/ ... 65248?s=20 ---> After completing the order of five S-400 Squadrons another five squadrons of the S-400 will be ordered which will be manufactured in India. Confirmed by Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria (retd), former Chief of the Air Staff.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avid »

Rakesh wrote:Click on link below for VIDEO.

Disclaimer --> In the video, only the news anchor mentions it...while the former Air Chief just nods his head. Will have to wait for confirmation. But if true, this would be big news. I am trying to find the actual interview. If someone comes across it, please post.

https://twitter.com/Defencecore/status/ ... 65248?s=20 ---> After completing the order of five S-400 Squadrons another five squadrons of the S-400 will be ordered which will be manufactured in India. Confirmed by Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria (retd), former Chief of the Air Staff.
Rakesh ji, the ACM neither confirms nor denies that he shared that information. IMHO, ACM -- retired or not -- would not do this without approval of the govt. (formal or informal). Which points to this likely being a way to normalize the information before it is formally confirmed.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Avid, no -ji for me please.

Would be nice to find the entire video. Whoever added that clip, has zero clue on video editing :)

That having being said, I doubt a news anchor would make such a claim without having an authoritative source to back it up.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

I found the entire interview. Scanning through the video to see if the Air Chief says it.

Added Later: Talk about rotten luck. The interview has been cut off, right around where the Air Chief says it. Military Intelligence at work! :mrgreen:

But one can realize, that the Air Chief does talk about a second batch of five additional S-400 squadrons/regiments (under a Make in India scheme) but with greater indigenous content. See from 36:45 in the video.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 88417?s=20 ---> Indian Air Force signs a contract with Bharat Electronics Ltd for the procurement of an indigenous Electronic Warfare system.

Image

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 77088?s=20 ---> If the picture is right, this is the DRDO GBMES, developed as an offshoot of an ESM system developed for the Navy.

Image
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Re: Indian .Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote:Click on link below for VIDEO.

Disclaimer --> In the video, only the news anchor mentions it...while the former Air Chief just nods his head. Will have to wait for confirmation. But if true, this would be big news. I am trying to find the actual interview. If someone comes across it, please post.

https://twitter.com/Defencecore/status/ ... 65248?s=20 ---> After completing the order of five S-400 Squadrons another five squadrons of the S-400 will be ordered which will be manufactured in India. Confirmed by Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria (retd), former Chief of the Air Staff.
Rakesh, Don't know about further S-400 orders but hope they definitely start making S-500 as the hypersonic threats are increasing.
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Re: Indian .Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Rakesh, Don't know about further S-400 orders but hope they definitely start making S-500 as the hypersonic threats are increasing.
Ramana-ji, see my follow up post on this. So the ACM "reportedly" does make the claim. Five additional S-400 regiments under a Make in India scheme, with greater indigenous content.

Based on experience from previous such acquisitions, the above statement could be translated as an *improved* S-400 system. So countering hypersonic targets might be part of that. Obviously, we will never know.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Some of us are meeting a retired warrior from the 1965 Peshawar raid.

Any questions please post pronto here.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

ramana wrote:Some of us are meeting a retired warrior from the 1965 Peshawar raid.

Any questions please post pronto here.

What an experience!!!
The first "ghar me ghus ke mare" group.

#5 Squadron Tuskers.
The first use of large 4000 lb bombs after WWII.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Samay »

ramana wrote:Some of us are meeting a retired warrior from the 1965 Peshawar raid.

Any questions please post pronto here.
What are their views on change in preparation required for two/2.5 front war after focusing on single front for 70 yrs?
How many Large strategic bombers should India have as china has 250+ and building more stealthy ones ?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by wig »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ike-496100

Group Capt dismissed for attack on own copter, day after Balakot strike

excerpted
A General Court Martial (GCM) in Delhi today ordered the dismissal of Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury, then Chief Operations Officer (COO) of Srinagar Air Force Station, for a missile attack on a friendly Mi-17 helicopter on February 27, 2019, leading to the death of six Air Force personnel and a civilian.
the event
Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, who was the Senior Air Traffic Control Officer at the time of the incident, is acquitted of four charges and has got a severe reprimand for one charge. Group Captain Chowdhury is held guilty on five of the nine charges. He is held guilty of not obeying the general order issued by Air Headquarters, dated July 14, 2017, which required all aircraft operating north of latitude 3200 N to operate with Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) on. He permitted Mi-17 to get airborne from Srinagar without the IFF on. He is held guilty of assigning an inbound flying object to the missile unit at 10:10 am on February 27, 2019, at 23 km from the Srinagar base for engagement by the Mission Commander, Command and Control Unit of 2258 Squadron. As a consequence, the assigned flying target, which actually was friendly copter Mi-17, was shot down by a Spyder missile at 10:14 am. The mishap caused a loss of Rs 133.31 crore to the state.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by IndraD »

Military Court orders dismissal of IAF officer for shooting down own chopper after 2019 Balakot strike
Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury has been found guilty of 5 major counts, including ordering for Mi-17 helicopter to be shot down, leading to death of 6 IAF personnel, 1 civilian

https://theprint.in/defence/military-co ... e/1511152/
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Why would a Group Captain a fairly senior officer, commit 2 errors one on top of the other within, I'm guessing, less than an hour or so. Didn't other AF personnel around him - crew of the chopper, ATC personnel etc advise him not to? And he ignored all that and gave orders ? Almost sounds like he went rogue. Very unfortunate incident.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by IndraD »

one hopes this is one off and doesn't reflect on training on preparedness!
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Military Court orders dismissal of IAF officer for shooting down own chopper after 2019 Balakot strike.

Group Captain Suman Roy Chowdhury has been found guilty of 5 major counts, including ordering for Mi-17 helicopter to be shot down, leading to death of 6 IAF personnel, 1 civilian.


I agree there was command failure in the heat of the moment however the charges are incorrect.
Wing Commander Shyam Naithani, who was the Senior Air Traffic Control Officer at the time of the incident, is acquitted of four charges and has got a severe reprimand for one charge. Group Captain Chowdhury is held guilty on five of the nine charges. 1) He is held guilty of not obeying the general order issued by Air Headquarters, dated July 14, 2017, which required all aircraft operating north of latitude 3200 N to operate with Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) on. 2) He permitted Mi-17 to get airborne from Srinagar without the IFF on. He is 3)held guilty of assigning an inbound flying object to the missile unit at 10:10 am on February 27, 2019, at 23 km from the Srinagar base for engagement by the Mission Commander, Command and Control Unit of 2258 Squadron. As a consequence, the assigned flying target, which actually was a friendly copter Mi-17, was shot down by a Spyder missile at 10:14 am. The mishap caused a loss of Rs 133.31 crore to the state.
Did the Mi-17 have IFF installed? Were there any other Mi-17s with IFF available? What was the mission of the Mi-17 that required it to fly without IFF?
Also the moron COI is revealing the reaction time of 4 minutes to shootdown after approval by the base commander.
Any what are the two other charges?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by shaun »

"He permitted Mi-17 to get airborne from Srinagar without the IFF on" ,I think the key point is " without the IFF on" , without the IFF transponder ON , a possible reason or the hepter allowed to fly in the restricted airspace without a functional transponder .

Regarding the 2nd part , what the purpose of this unfortunate sortie , we may never know , or routine sortie.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Isn't it normal procedure to turn on IFF on the helicopter? Was the helicopter equipped with the IFF?
What was the mission of the helicopter that the pilot did not turn on IFF? And why he sought permission to fly without IFF/
Too many questions.
I agree base commander should be sacked for the accident that happened under his watch.
Chain of command doctrine.
However, sticking him with all these charges reflects badly on the COI.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

I think the Group Captain is being thrown under the bus when there was a real battle going on and there was very much a fog of war going on and it is hard to ascertain the reliability of such information. But can you afford to take the chance when lives are on the line and you got reports of a possible missile coming your way and you only have few minutes to make your decision.

The entire decision making process needs to be re-evaluated and overhauled so fast pace decision making processes can occur in a safe manner.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Sorry but GCM is showing it to be a farce.
Fine charge him with chain of command accountability but all these charges ridiculous.

Dont bad mouth him.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

Sorry, raising questions about the mission of the helicopter, saying the charges are ridiculous etc, don't carry much weight, unless you have specific points to counter the charges and evidence.
From all reports, it appears to be straightforward sloppiness on the part of the COO on whose shoulders following and enforcing the SOPs lay. (Yes I wonder why the AOC was not also charged as the COO reports in to the AOC This is not a case of fog of war. Fog of war would be if inspite of following due precautions, fratricide still happened.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Haridas »

ramana wrote:Isn't it normal procedure to turn on IFF on the helicopter? Was the helicopter equipped with the IFF?
What was the mission of the helicopter that the pilot did not turn on IFF? And why he sought permission to fly without IFF.
Some missions need be performed in absolute radio silence. In those cases any RF emission from airplane is not acceptable.
IFF has civilian (basic) interrogation that it will always respond (thus enemy ELINT can get its azimuth accurately and gross range), MIL rated authentication is secondary ability to pass cryptographic authentication.

So there could be legit tactical reason to fly with IFF off, with needed support to dissiminate the friendly traffic movement info to radar and AD units.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

shaun wrote:
Regarding the 2nd part , what the purpose of this unfortunate sortie , we may never know , or routine sortie.
I am totally speculating at this point.

It's possible that the Mi17 flight was intended to recover Wing Co. Abhinandan.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

If it was a mission that requd IFF to be turned off, you still need to turn it back on when you return to base and you know AD is on highest alert to shoot any unknown ac. Right over your base, there is no longer any neer to keep IFF off.
If pilots forgot to turn it back on and it was their mistake, not the COO's, then why would IAF award VM Gallantry to the helicopter pilots?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

As per reports the IAF had instructed all flights in sector to be with IFF turned on. However at this airbase instructions were given for flight without IFF resulting in this tradgedy. This becomes the responsibility of the base in- charge of operations.

Flying without IFF in a warlike aituation is done in exceptional circumstances or where other means are available which can avoid fratricide.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

prashantsharma wrote:If it was a mission that requd IFF to be turned off, you still need to turn it back on when you return to base and you know AD is on highest alert to shoot any unknown ac. Right over your base, there is no longer any neer to keep IFF off.
If pilots forgot to turn it back on and it was their mistake, not the COO's, then why would IAF award VM Gallantry to the helicopter pilots?
Right over airbase is too late my-friend. By then the intercept has happened. This particular chopper came down in Badgam which is about 14 kms from Srinagar.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

In all this what time the Mig 21 Shot down, did the Mi 17 take off turning off IFF for a SAR mission which was called off and started to turn back to bse with its IFF off, all this while just that morning a Paki drone was shot down by another Spyder SAM battery near Naliya base in Gujarat?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SRajesh »

^^Was per some of the media reports after Mig 21 going down
Is it because SAR mission went awry and turned back Or Called back by the political bosses to avoid further escalation(can it be Khan elint/intervention/advice to pull back).
But if called back why switch off IFF??
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

I dont think Khan was involved, I guess the Helicopter forgot switch on IFF while returning back to base and Group captain forgot about the Helicopter.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Rakesh, There was thread on need for supersonic bombers started by shiv or GD/
Do you know what happened?
TIA, ramana
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

viewtopic.php?t=5711

Shiv, had started 2 seperate threads for designing Fighters and Rockets.

I was unable to find the bombers thread.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

ramana wrote:Rakesh, There was thread on need for supersonic bombers started by shiv or GD/
Do you know what happened?
TIA, ramana
There was/is one thread in the Strategic forums... don't know if it's the one you are looking for..

Indian Strategic Long Range Bomber
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Thank you Manish!

Ramana-ji, should we move this thread to the Mil Forum?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Yes please. All these B1Bs etc make it useful to have.
Thanks, ramana
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

EW Package for IAF Taking Shape
https://alphadefense.in/electronic-warfare-of-india/
18 April 2023
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

'Strike first and strike farthest' is mantra for future wars: IAF Chief
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ief-498589
18 April 2023
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rajkumar »

Interesting take on Indian Air force Recruitment Ads...

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by KL Dubey »

rajkumar wrote:Interesting take on Indian Air force Recruitment Ads...
:D This karnail sahab looks/talks like he's had a couple of pegs before making this clip...and also seems to mistake a Su-30 for a MiG-29 in the first IAF ad.
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