Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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ks_sachin
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Rohitvats

Motorised Inf Regiments?

First I am hearing if this.Can u pl elaborate.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rohitvats »

ks_sachin wrote:Rohitvats

Motorised Inf Regiments?

First I am hearing if this.Can u pl elaborate.
The requirement for various protected mobility vehicles including Kalyani M4, IPMV (watered down Kesterl/Whap) and TATA's MPV were from DG Infantry. It is my assumption that we're equipping our infantry in Eastern Ladakh with high mobility vehicles which basically converts them into motorized infantry.
fanne
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by fanne »

Which make sense. At that height, cold desert, an infantry
Cannot be expected to lug 10 of kegs to fighting. Once past the mountain on the platue, one has to use vehicle. That’s why Chinese are all motorized there, unlike is they have little mountain, vast plane and little source of water.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avik »

Rohit- i thought we had a few mot inf battalions in Rajasthan as well with Tatra 4X4s. Thats where the concept was test-bedded about 5 years back. The Ladakh version is the next iteration.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rohitvats »

Avik wrote:Rohit- i thought we had a few mot inf battalions in Rajasthan as well with Tatra 4X4s. Thats where the concept was test-bedded about 5 years back. The Ladakh version is the next iteration.
Avik my friend - good to hear from you! Long time.

I don't know for sure but I'm also of the assumption that we use TATRA high mobility vehicles (4x4) for troop transport. My assumption is based on a story which I read a long time back where the army had placed a very large order for these vehicles. Considering that we've been using 6x6 or 8x8 TATRA for mainly engineering or transport role (including tank transport), the order looked odd. The only application I could think of was cross-country mobility for troops and their associated equipment.

Do you have any reference for the test-bed you're referring to? Thanks.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Rohitvats / Avik,

I am at a loss here. Are you saying that these Tatras or other vehicles like the WhAP /M4 etc are organic assets of these "motorised" inf bn's and they do not have the typical vehicle holdings of the regular inf bn's?

I know that generally, when bn moved for exercises the ASC would provide vehicles as well for a large-scale movement of men and material. I remember that the inf bn had 2 jongas's, 3 odd jeeps plus the 1 ton and 3 ton vehicles.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avik »

KS_sachin- yes, that is indeed what i'm saying. These are Tatra 4X4s hi mobility vehicles, and are organic to these mot inf bns. AFAIK, some of these inf bns are part of SW Command especially X Corps
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Thanks Avik.

The question then is hiw r they different from regular Mech Inf. Afterall MechInf can be wheeled or tracked.

Secondly how are they to be employed if they operate alongside MechInf?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avik »

ks-sachin: The mot inf bns are not mech inf. These battalions are not being transferred from Infantry Regiments to Mech Inf/Guards. They are using the 4X4s for mobility. One of the challenges in the RAPID divs has been that while one bde is mech/armd, the other two conv inf bdes and cant keep up with the armd/mech bde. The mot inf bn have roles as the R&S bn and/or flank guard bns for the armd bde in the RAPID divs
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Strange,

You create RAPIDS and then lumber the formation with conventional Inf Brigades that are not fleet of foot.

Then you give them Vehicles to keep up with the Armr / Mech formations wherein the role they will play will be pretty similar to what the Mech Inf will do.

After Mech Inf is still Infantry is and under DG Infantry is it not.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Avik »

KS_sachin: curious to know what you think the role of the two inf bdes in a RAPID are vis-a-vis the Armd bde?

BTW, Mech Inf comes under DGMF
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Avik wrote:KS_sachin: curious to know what you think the role of the two inf bdes in a RAPID are vis-a-vis the Armd bde?

BTW, Mech Inf comes under DGMF
That is the question I had. How were the regular Inf Bdes to keep up with Armr.
And now that we have Mech inf how does the role differ even if we give the inf bde tatras?

Thanks for That. So we have DG inf, DG Mech and we have DG Armr.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SBajwa »

Lt Gen. KJS "Tiny" Dhillon's latest book "Kitne Ghazi aaye, Kitne Ghazi Gaye" is coming out in January 2023.

Image
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SBajwa »

Lt Gen KJS Dhillon, Chinar Corps Commander in Kashmir during Pulwama and Abrogation of Article 370 has penned a book which tells the first hand story right from childhood, military training, regimental life, family life of a soldier to the Kashmiri Pandits’ exodus to the Abrogation of Article 370 in his own version as he saw it.
The book contains much more than it promises.
A must read to get the correct unbiased perspective of Kashmir issue.


Author signed copy pre orders are now open
Kitne Ghazi Aaye, Kitne Ghazi Gaye: My Life Story
https://amzn.eu/d/6xn4JEp
Anoop
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Anoop »

Army Chief discusses a wide range of topics.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Ashokk »

Meet Army’s newest air warrior ‘Arjun’, trained to take down enemy drones

Image
DEHRADUN: Like its namesake in the ‘Mahabharata’, Arjun’s eyes are steadily fixed on the target. In a few deft moves that would have made the ancient epic warrior proud, Arjun, who is actually a black kite, is off from its handler’s arm like a shot and swoops on its target in the skies – a quadcopter drone.
The action, played out in the bilateral military exercise of the Indian and US armies at Auli on Tuesday, was the first public demonstration of how birds of prey like black kites and falcons were being trained to prey on enemy drones/quadcopters.
Speaking about the initiative, Colonel Sudhir Chamoli, PRO, Indian Army, told TOI, “The project to train the kites was started in 2020.
Meanwhile, at Auli on Tuesday, Arjun and its fellow ‘air warriors’, who were trained at the Army's Remount And Veterinary Corps Centre in Meerut, could be seen going about their task defly, looking every inch like a modern-day soldier, with small cameras fitted on their heads. The cameras are for recording videos and surveillance purposes, an Army official said, adding that they can be very handy in surveillance missions in border areas.
Cyrano
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Nice, we can have flocks of these rapaces to deal with small drone swarms. And trained dolphins against underwater drones.
Manish_P
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

^^
Wait till PETA / Maneka G finds out ..

Seriously though we need to develop anti-drone drones - with shotgun / proximity fuse

I think the russians had developed one some time back
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Jay »

Manish_P wrote:^^

I think the russians had developed one some time back
Please, Manish ji no more Russian crap. We need to get it done by ourselves.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Cyrano wrote:Nice, we can have flocks of these rapaces to deal with small drone swarms. And trained dolphins against underwater drones.
The efficiency of any bio system is way more than what we can build artificially. The flight hours, detection accuracy/resolution and kill rate will be good. Like pigeon trains regularly outperformed in WW1 in transmitting message. One pigeon broke its leg and had a bullet in its chest and still was able to return message of a surrounded troop party which was ultimately rescued.

But this option is not scalable. Not enough raptor trainers, breeders out there to scale this.
Additionally how does it compare to other antidrone systems ? Does this raptor based system work round the clock without supervision? How long away can the identify a flying object - like the operating radius. Etc etc.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Jay wrote:
Manish_P wrote:^^

I think the russians had developed one some time back
Please, Manish ji no more Russian crap. We need to get it done by ourselves.
Sir, I did write, very consciously, that 'we need to develop' :)
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Ashokk »

with small cameras fitted on their heads. The cameras are for recording videos and surveillance purposes, an Army official said, adding that they can be very handy in surveillance missions in border areas.
Image
ramana
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

Remember the bird drone in Uri Surgical Strike!
Now we have kite the drone strike
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

KS-Sachin, the motorization is part of IBG infrastructure.
Can have them march on foot when faced with PLA combat brigades.
These vehicles will take advantage of border road infrastructure.
Manish_P
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Tragic

This is the price our soldiers have to pay.. no such thing as peace time for them.

Om Shanti to the departed souls. May god grant strength to the families to bear their irreplaceable loss.

16 Army personnel killed in road accident in Sikkim
Sixteen Army personnel including three Junior Commissioned Officers (JCOs) were killed in a road accident at Zema in North Sikkim on Friday when their vehicle skidded off while negotiating a sharp turn, the Army said.

The Army vehicle in which the personnel were travelling was part of a three-vehicle convoy going from Chatten towards Thangu.

"The ill-fated vehicle was part of a 3-vehicle convoy that had moved from Chatten in the morning towards Thangu. Enroute at Zema, the truck skidded down a steep slope while negotiating a sharp turn. A rescue mission was immediately launched and 4 injured soldiers were air evacuated," the Army said in a statement.
Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

^^^

Horrific. What sort of follow ups, investigations, are done for this sort of tragedy in India. Is there any movement to try as far as possible, to prevent the same thing happening again? Or is it left to the whims of individual drivers.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by chiru »

Zema is a very tricky road, short and sharp hairpins, especially when coming down the vehicle can pick up speed in very short time. Experienced this first hand last year. From the tragic image, the truck landed on the road below and not down a gorge. Driver error is the leading cause of road accidents in the mountains. Hard to pin the blame on a single cause in the present circumstances.
ks_sachin
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

Varoon Shekhar wrote:^^^

Horrific. What sort of follow ups, investigations, are done for this sort of tragedy in India. Is there any movement to try as far as possible, to prevent the same thing happening again? Or is it left to the whims of individual drivers.
There will be a court of inquiry.
The best way to prevent this from happening is not to have troops there!!!
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

ks_sachin wrote:...
The best way to prevent this from happening is not to have troops there!!!
Wouldn't put it past some INC neta to state that this would not have happened if their policy of non-development of border infrastructure had not been reversed by the current government.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Army to boost 'tooth-to-tail' ratio, shed flab
NEW DELHI: The almost 12-lakh strong Army is actively working on several proposals to improve its tooth-to-tail ratio by further reducing its support manpower, which comes after the recruitment process was suspended for two years before the Agnipath scheme was launched last year.
The proposals range from slashing non-operational flab in the shape of ‘tradesmen’ and ‘legacy units’ in the Army to ‘outsourcing’ logistic support services and restructuring the specialized counter-insurgency Rashtriya Rifles operating in J&K.
The Army certainly needs to go in for a leaner and meaner force, grappling as it is with ballooning salary and pension bills that leave little for military modernisation with induction of new cutting-edge technologies.
Before the controversial Agnipath scheme for short-term recruitment of soldiers without pension and other benefits was announced in mid-June last year, the Army had suspended recruitment rallies during 2020-21 and 2021-22 due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

The almost 12-lakh strong Army is actively working on several proposals to improve its tooth-to-tail ratio by further reducing its support manpower, which comes after the recruitment process was suspended for two years before the Agnipath scheme was launched last year
“This itself led to a reduction of 1.2 lakh soldiers. In the first year of Agnipath, we are in turn taking only 40,000 Agniveers in two batches,” an officer said. By around 2032, Agniveers will constitute 50% of the Army as per the existing plan to ostensibly reduce the average age of soldiers from the existing 32 to 24-26 in six to seven years as well as induct tech-savvy youth for wars of the future.

Then, there is also “adequate scope” to reduce manpower of “tradesmen”, like cooks, barbers, washermen and safaiwallahs”, who number around 80,000 in the Army, an officer said.

Induction of Agniveer Vayu candidates begins at ATS

With terrorism on the decline in J&K, the Army is also examining whether the Rashtriya Rifles (RR), which was first raised in 1990 as a small force but now has 63 battalions, needs to be restructured.

“A division-level force of the RR, in any case, was inducted into eastern Ladakh after the Chinese incursions there in 2020. We are assessing if the number of RR battalions, or the number of companies in each battalion, can be reduced if there is no spike in terrorism again,” a senior officer told TOI.

The Army, however, has decided to gradually shut down its “animal transport companies”, reducing their number by around 70% by 2030. “Logistic drones can be useful in this,” another officer said.
The Army last month issued a RFI (request for information) for acquisition of 570 logistics drones, including those designed for deployment in high-altitude areas over 12,000-feet. “Such drones can carry out last-mile delivery to troops deployed along the borders,” the officer said.

The force earlier also floated a RFP (request for proposal) for fast-track procurement of 363 drones for the infantry to enhance operational logistics along the China border.“Such drones will reduce the need for soldiers or porters as well as animal transport to carry supplies and ammunition,” the officer said.

Some “optimization of manpower” has already been achieved with the phased implementation of the Shekatkar Committee report, which in December 2019 recommended measures to enhance combat capability, slash non-operational flab and rebalance the defence expenditure.

The implementation of certain recommendations of the committee includes redeployment of around 57,000 posts of officers, soldiers and defence civilians. All 39 military farms, for instance, have been progressively shut down.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Army’s rightsizing plan: Veterans at training institutes and cross-skilling
ROPING IN veterans with expertise in specific areas for its training institutions on contractual basis, cross-skilling technical trades, outsourcing several services at its static units — these are part of the Army’s planned manpower optimisation exercise aimed at sharpening its tooth-to-tail ratio (the number of military personnel it takes to supply and support a combat soldier).
Rest behind paid wall
bharathp
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by bharathp »

nuggets from the rest:
The 40,000 vacancies released to recruit Agniveers under the government’s Agnipath scheme last year will not be adequate to match the annual retirement rate of approximately 60,000 soldiers.
There are also plans to outsource administrative services for static units, such as catering, facility management and conservancy, which, at present, are carried out by the tradesmen employed with the Army.
The senior defence official said that with a push for automation of weapons, there could be reduced requirement for personnel operating guns and tanks, leading to manpower optimisation in the Regiment of Artillery and Armoured Corps.
The manpower cut, officials said, will get implemented once the recruitment for these vacancies is stopped. There are also plans to plough back some of this manpower into newer structures to be raised such as drone units.
Manish_P
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_P »

Sad news

May god give their families strength to bear their irreplaceable loss. Om Shanti

JK: 3 soldiers die after falling into gorge along LoC
Three soldiers, including a junior commissioned officer (JCO), died after they slipped into a deep gorge during patrolling along the Line of Control in Kupwara district of Jammu and Kashmir, the Army said on Wednesday.

"During a regular op task in forward area, a party of 01 JCO & 02 OR slipped into a deep gorge, when snow on the track gave way. Mortal remains of all the three #bravehearts have been retrieved," the Srinagar-based Chinar Corps tweeted.

Giving details, a defence spokesman said the incident took place at around 5.30 pm on Tuesday when a team of soldiers was on a routine operational task along a narrow winter track. “While moving towards the forward post, snow along the narrow track broke, leading to slipping of one JCO and two jawans into a deep gorge,” the spokesman said.

The deceased soldiers were identified as Naib Subedar Parshotam Kumar, Havildar Amrik Singh and sepoy Amit Sharma.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Tanaji »

Apparently there is now a controversy on the IA purchasing helmets or protective plates for the Sikh turbans. Apparently they put out a tender for 12000 of these ( which is an odd number in itself: there are more than 12K Sikhs in IA?) and this has apparently hurt the religious sentiments of the Sikhs. Everyone from the jathedar of Golden temple to Amarinder Singh is piping up claiming IA is forcing them to cover the turban…

Opinions?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Very bizzare to be debating a lifesaving helmet against a turban. A hit to the skull from a bullet or shrapnel is a very serious injury, often fatal.

What do Sikhs do when they ride motorcycles where helmets are mandatory?

What do they wear while playing hockey? :D

The same can be done to wear a battlefield helmet, no?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VickyAvinash »

Cyrano wrote:
What do Sikhs do when they ride motorcycles where helmets are mandatory?
Nothing surprising for me, a Punjabi non-sikh born in Amritsar. Have seen all idiosyncrasies by now. BTW, Sikh men and women are not required to wear helment in Punjab and Chandigarh while riding any two wheeler by law. Don't even talk about common sense, it is very uncommon in land of Panj aab on either side of border. Minority appeasement, supported by political parties of all sort, is bound to create such situations.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ParGha »

Tanaji wrote:Opinions?
Dumb@sses need to realize that well-off Sikh warriors historically commissioned helmets to accommodate their top-knot (kesh). See this beautiful brass-steel example:
ImageThe kesh is one of the 5-K religious obligations of a Sikh, not the turban (dastar or pagg or pagadi).

The British were too cheap to commission a helmet style that accepted the top-knot, so the Sikhs continued to wear turbans in the BIA while Hindus and Muslims switched to the mass-produced Brodie helmets during WW-1. Not issuing the Sikhs an accommodating helmet was actually a sign of their disposability and lost sovereignty. Now they are free and equal citizens of India, and the country is finally becoming wealthy enough to design and issue them religiously acceptable equipment… and some idiots are complaining?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sanjaykumar »

What do the private medical insurance companies pay when a non-helmeted Sikh motorcycle rider needs neurosurgery where it can be demonstrated reasonably that the medical and rehabilitation expenses would have been less with helmet?
Presumably those provinces in Canada that allow this foot the bills. Which is the same as the taxpayer pays for the privilege.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Atmavik »

Indigenise To Modernise Is Our Mantra To Support Make In India, Says Army Chief.

please watch in full. for 2022 80% of capes was from make in india for the Army

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5zSw6-SgMM

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