Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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AdityaM
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by AdityaM »

One Army jawan died and four are in critical condition after more than 30 soldiers collapsed due to heat and exhaustion at an endurance run in Mamun military station near Pathankot

Competition was organised this morning in hot and humid conditions as a result of which 34 soldiers collapsed
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-7464281/

Video

https://twitter.com/kmrak47/status/1428 ... 95681?s=21
chetak
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^

As well they should, some careers will come to an abrupt end over this.
YashG
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

Saddened. Shows, how duty until death is not just a byline in Indian Army.
Maria
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Maria »

chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

As well they should, some careers will come to an abrupt end over this.
Yes, there should be some heads rolling for not holding a proper water parade or having escort vehicles tag along with the runners and spraying them with water.

Nevertheless, while this is the hottest year on earth, the enemy can come knocking anytime.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by chetak »

Maria wrote:
chetak wrote:^^^^^^^

As well they should, some careers will come to an abrupt end over this.
Yes, there should be some heads rolling for not holding a proper water parade or having escort vehicles tag along with the runners and spraying them with water.

Nevertheless, while this is the hottest year on earth, the enemy can come knocking anytime.
I shall refrain from answering.
Cyrano
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cyrano »

Completely avoidable loss of precious life of a soldier and risking many others'. Hope those responsible are punished with due process and lessons learnt are applied. Enemy faces the same weather hardships as we do. And a dead/dehydrated soldier cant defend us.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Tanaji »

There is a dictum that is inscribed in NDA regarding the importance of welfare of troops under your command and the priority of your own welfare …. Clearly the people in charge had forgotten this…
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

:rotfl:
There is not much difference between civilian babooze and servicemen when it comes to lust for power and prestige. I'm only thankful that he had not sewn in stars and AVSM on his shirt too.
https://twitter.com/ColSanjayPande/stat ... photo/1---> Is this real? A caricature? An apology? Retired? Beret? Two logos? Three Stars? Does no one have courage to tell whoever this veteran is that most veterans will die of shame looking at this him?
Image

Added later:
https://twitter.com/ColSanjayPande/stat ... 84/photo/2
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ले जनरल (रिटा) राकेश शर्मा, रक्षा विशेषज्ञ
Lt Gen (Retd) Rakesh Sharma

Can we have few Lt Generals condemning this?
:eek: :rotfl:
This General saab is off his rockers for sure. He is using army insignia even there :roll: . No wonder army is in such condition with people like him managing to reach the top.
Last edited by jamwal on 24 Aug 2021 21:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

Proper helmet, gloves, kneepad, BPJ, good rifle with optics and grip and two pens. It is amazing how long it took for this basic infantry kit to reach our soldiers.

[Moderator Note: Please provide picture link when posting images. The image has been temporarily removed.]
Last edited by jamwal on 24 Aug 2021 18:29, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

jamwal wrote::rotfl:
There is not much difference between civilian babooze and servicemen when it comes to lust for power and prestige. I'm only thankful that he had not sewn in stars and AVSM on his shirt too.
That I believe is Lt Gen Rakesh Sharma (retd), the former Director General of Operational Logistics. I am appalled that as a retired Lt Gen, he is acting like this. Someone from Army HQ needs to contact him and tell him to stop this.

Lt Gen Rakesh Sharma awarded AVSM
https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/lt-gen-r ... rded-avsm/

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

:rotfl: Indian Army, Col --- ---- , Bofors Gunner. :rotfl:

What is wrong with these people?

https://twitter.com/captsanthoshkc/stat ... 3782366211
@captsanthoshkc
Sir log, pl have some stature towards our uniform and the organization we relate to ⚡.

Kya nautanki laga raka hai .
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Maria
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Maria »

Gentlemen, I am not sure what we are complaining about - these men have spent years serving the country in an institution which is one of the best and most disciplined.

Neither does that beret, jacker or any other paraphernalia point to any lust for power, nor does it represent the uniform worn by anyone from the Armed Forces. They deserve more respect than what's shown here.

They just want to be remembered - something we Indians are not good at doing. If the Army had an issue - some one would have called it out long ago.

Look at veterans abroad - many of them wear very colourful outfits with Armed forces memorabilia.

A soldier never hangs up his boots, he just fades away. Once a soldier, always a soldier. Take this from a rifleman.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by SinghS »

The insignia- naam aur nishaan is what they lived for and were willing to die for their whole life. This is the only identity and achievement they have. The country is safe because people in forces have devoted their whole life for naam and nishaan.

They have all the right to proudly display it. If some of our countrymen don't find modesty in it, please understand there is no need for each of us to be modest. My 2 bits.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

There are norms followed by all veterans. Please see examples below of retired service personnel. You don't see either of these gentlemen dressing up in a manner as depicted above. I do empathize with the sentiment that these individuals served their country and they do not want to be forgotten. At senior positions, you are treated as if you are like divinity. And when retirement hits, that all goes out the window. No one remains in the service forever.

Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha (retd)

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Admiral Vijai Singh Shekhawat (retd)

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There are norms for uniforms. You cannot put insignias on headgear and suits, just because you think it looks cool. It is extremely disrespectful to do so. Insignias - like the words, Indian Army - mean something. Men have died valiantly for just those two words. And today it is with clothes. If these individuals are told not to stop this behaviour....what next? Is Lt Gen Rakesh Sharma (retd) now going to put a three star on his personal car, wherever he travels? At what point does this comedy stop? He retired at the rank of Lt General. This has to be explained to him?

This is not promotion of the Indian Armed Forces. This is self promotion and that is wrong. These individuals have forgotten their Chetwode Motto, which is displayed at the Indian Military Academy. An institution from where they graduated from.

The safety, honour and welfare of your country come first, always and every time.
The honour, welfare and comfort of the men you command come next.
Your own ease, comfort and safety come last, always and every time.


And here is Group Captain MJA Vinod (retd). Even he is saying this is clownish behaviour. Soldiers let others speak of their deeds, but they never do it themselves.

https://twitter.com/mjavinod/status/143 ... 95555?s=20 ---> Veterans, stop doing this. It’s clownish.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

Maria wrote:Gentlemen, I am not sure what we are complaining about - these men have spent years serving the country in an institution which is one of the best and most disciplined.

Neither does that beret, jacker or any other paraphernalia point to any lust for power, nor does it represent the uniform worn by anyone from the Armed Forces. They deserve more respect than what's shown here.

They just want to be remembered - something we Indians are not good at doing. If the Army had an issue - some one would have called it out long ago.

Look at veterans abroad - many of them wear very colourful outfits with Armed forces memorabilia.

A soldier never hangs up his boots, he just fades away. Once a soldier, always a soldier. Take this from a rifleman.
The point was raised by other ex-servicemen as visible in tweets linked in the posts. Please check what other veterans are saying.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Maria »

jamwal wrote: The point was raised by other ex-servicemen as visible in tweets linked in the posts. Please check what other veterans are saying.
Well I agree with them and disagree respectfully, a couple of questions that I like to air:

Does the Ministry of Defence or the Indian Armed Forces have a problem with this?
Are there any written protocols for veterans to dress up and if these protocols are violated or abused, what action can the authorities take?

I agree that in certain cases, it looks pompous and clownish. However, does doing so demean the ethos of the Armed Forces here? When a veteran retires, what connections does that veteran retain to the forces?

I may dress up like a clown on the streets but isn't that a fundamental right?

Last but not the least, are we going to tell a veteran who has served the nation for 30 years on how to dress? For instance, the gentleman wearing the Missile badge had earned it, so he has placed it on his coat/blazer. Does that badge mean anything without the uniform? I bet not. I know how weird and funny that black beret with the 3 stars look - but that's just a bad design. There's no intention to insult the Army or its ethos, right?

Also, in my opinion, the real clowns are like that Sifu ji, who attempts to dress up like an Army man when he is clearly not. Anyway, this was my last on this. I feel the Afg thread needs my attention.
Last edited by Maria on 25 Aug 2021 19:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

It is an individual's fundamental right to dress up in any manner in which he choses.

However, when representing an institution...you are required to follow certain norms. The MoD and the Armed Forces can certainly touch base with these individuals and ask them to stop this.

When a veteran retires, he/she has many avenues to retain their connection to the forces. And all veterans take advantage of those connections. I have yet to come across a single veteran who has not. But what these individuals are doing is self promotion.

Every insignia has a certain place on your uniform. It cannot be removed from one place and put on another. That is why many in the Armed Forces and even veterans shake their head in disappointment, when Bollywood depicts actors wearing uniforms all wrong.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Ashokk »

https://twitter.com/IaSouthern/status/1430368049798926337
#ScoutMasterCompetition Stage I completed at #Koltsovo . A total of six sub competitions were held in the Stage I between the participating Armies. #IndianArmy team performs exceedingly well.
#IndianArmy
#StrongAndCapable
@adgpi
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

India needs to work on suitable format for new Theatre Commands: Ex-Army chief Shankar Roychowdhury
Strategic planners in India need to work out a suitable format before implementing the Theatre Command structure, which integrates all services in an area under a unified command, said former army chief General Shankar Roychowdhury.

India also needs to build up its strength vis-a-vis China and not be "over-influenced" by the 1962 border war with the neighbouring country, the former army chief stated.

"We need to work out a suitable format for the Theatre Command structure through discussions within the three services… there is a need for clarity on the structure," Gen. Roychowdhury told PTI.

"For instance, the theatre command structure for peninsular India, which abuts the sea, and landlocked northern India have to be different," said the former cavalry officer, who currently heads a strategic think tank, Research Centre for Eastern and North-eastern Studies.

India wants to implement a theatre command structure to bring about better synergy between the three services -- army, navy and air force -- where there would be four to five unified commands instead of some 17 different ones.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Regarding the recent disagreement regarding the dressing by a retired Lt. General. The rules of service are clear, that retired army men who have been discharged honourably from the service are allowed to call them selves by designation last held. But by adding retired to the name.

They are also permitted to wear the former uniform during official functions.

If the general was indulgent in activities which were not a part of official functions. Then he should be spoken to.

Else he should be left alone.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jaysimha »

https://english.lokmat.com/national/rs- ... -choppers/

RS-14000-crore-make-in-india-boost-for-indian-army-through-akash-missiles-alh-dhruv-choppers

----not able to copy contents----
YashG
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by YashG »

jaysimha wrote:https://english.lokmat.com/national/rs- ... -choppers/

RS-14000-crore-make-in-india-boost-for-indian-army-through-akash-missiles-alh-dhruv-choppers

----not able to copy contents----
The Akash sought is the one with seeker & Dhruvs are Mk3 variants.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

17th Battalion, Brigade of Guards meant for anti-armour role.

Any idea which ATGM is it on the BMP? Same thing in second picture or different?

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

jamwal wrote:17th Battalion, Brigade of Guards meant for anti-armour role.

Any idea which ATGM is it on the BMP?
9M113 Konkurs
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ParGha »

jamwal wrote:17th Battalion, Brigade of Guards meant for anti-armour role.
17 (like 5 and 19 GUARDS) is now a Recce & Support battalion -- it is meant to track enemy armored formations, and screen own armored formations. In comparison to a regular infantry or mechanized-infantry battalion, they are better-armed to defend themselves against enemy armor because of their R&S responsibilities, but they aren't in an "anti-armor role". As highly trained and motivated infantrymen, GUARDS do send out ATGM detachments to other infantry formations for busting bunkers.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Anoop »

ParGha wrote:17 (like 5 and 19 GUARDS) is now a Recce & Support battalion -- it is meant to track enemy armored formations, and screen own armored formations..
Sir, can you please elaborate on the sscreening role? The word 'screen' suggests that the position and strength of own armor is obscured from the enemy. If so, how is it done in practice? By deploying at a different location in enough strength to be misinterpreted by the enemy as the main force? Or do they have extra engg support to lay/clear minefields, destroy bridges etc, without the organic engg support of the armored regiment? Thank you.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

ParGha wrote:
jamwal wrote:17th Battalion, Brigade of Guards meant for anti-armour role.
17 (like 5 and 19 GUARDS) is now a Recce & Support battalion -- it is meant to track enemy armored formations, and screen own armored formations. In comparison to a regular infantry or mechanized-infantry battalion, they are better-armed to defend themselves against enemy armor because of their R&S responsibilities, but they aren't in an "anti-armor role". As highly trained and motivated infantrymen, GUARDS do send out ATGM detachments to other infantry formations for busting bunkers.
ParGha - for the non R&S bn is their role similar to regular Mech? How does the Mech Inf training work?
Do recruits go to Guards centre and then to NAgar for Mech specialisation or do we have two training ests?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

They have battle field surveillance radars which can detect enemy vehicles and relay the information wherever required. Although I am curious to know why were they anti-armour armed with only these BMPs shown below. Recce units make more sense
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ks_sachin »

jamwal wrote:They have battle field surveillance radars which can detect enemy vehicles and relay the information wherever required. Although I am curious to know why were they anti-armour armed with only these BMPs shown below. Recce units make more sense
Yes but there are about 24 guards bins but only a handful of R&S among them.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ParGha »

Anoop - the screening of own forces involves using both terrain and security to keep enemy recce away from own formations (and slowing them down with spoiling attacks when spotted). They don’t have engineering assets. Instead they rely on their own mobility to patrol for enemy recce (in a defensive role).

Sachin - Guards finish their training at ACC&S.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Anoop »

Thank you, Sir. Makes sense now.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

ParGha wrote:Anoop - the screening of own forces involves using both terrain and security to keep enemy recce away from own formations (and slowing them down with spoiling attacks when spotted). They don’t have engineering assets. Instead they rely on their own mobility to patrol for enemy recce (in a defensive role).
I wonder if their equipment needs to be enhanced with mobile anti-UAV units given that battlefield recce will be heavily reliant on UAV's going forward.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rohitvats »

ParGha wrote:
jamwal wrote:17th Battalion, Brigade of Guards meant for anti-armour role.
17 (like 5 and 19 GUARDS) is now a Recce & Support battalion -- it is meant to track enemy armored formations, and screen own armored formations. In comparison to a regular infantry or mechanized-infantry battalion, they are better-armed to defend themselves against enemy armor because of their R&S responsibilities, but they aren't in an "anti-armor role". As highly trained and motivated infantrymen, GUARDS do send out ATGM detachments to other infantry formations for busting bunkers.
The bunker busting part is long gone.

17 Guards in its earlier avatar was a dedicated ATGM battalion which even sent detachments to various sectors during the Kargil War.

Now, all the ATGM battalions have been converted to R&S role, wheeled or tracked.

Each infantry unit operates a mix of Milan-2/2T and Konkurs ATGM in 2.5km and 4km range brackets, respectively.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rohitvats »

ks_sachin wrote:
jamwal wrote:They have battle field surveillance radars which can detect enemy vehicles and relay the information wherever required. Although I am curious to know why were they anti-armour armed with only these BMPs shown below. Recce units make more sense
Yes but there are about 24 guards bins but only a handful of R&S among them.
That is because R&S battalions are part of the RAPID - each RAPID has 2 x Mechanized Infantry Bns and 2 x Armored Regiments. Some sources say that one of the mechanized bn is R&S while others say that R&S Bn is in addition to the 2 x Mech battalions.

Having said that, Wheeled R&S battalions are known to be part of some vanilla infantry divisions as well.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi ... ,_2006.jpg

The BRDM-2 in the link given above is from a Wheeled R&S battalion (you can see the distinct arm badge on the officer) of 7 Infantry Division.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by rohitvats »

Indian Army (and not BRO) has created an alternate connectivity between Leh and Tangste.

The existing road goes from Leh, and then over the Chang La pass, drops down to Darbuk (starting point of DSDBO road), and then heads south to Tangste.

Tangste is a major military node and also the point from where a road goes towards northern end of the Pangong Tso lake, to places like Lukung and Phobrang. Phobrang is the node from where roads emanate towards Ane La pass, Fingers Area, and the whole of Chang Chenmo Valley (Hot Springs & Gogra).

Another road goes south from Tangste towards Chushul, between the Ladakh range to west and Pangong Rang towards east.

Needless to say, if Chang La gets blocked due to nature or man-made disaster (expected for sure in a shooting match), the connectivity between Leh (major logistic node), and major sub-sectors towards east is gone.

So, this new alignment is very important. No wonder it has been implemented by the Engineering Regiment of 3 Infantry Division itself.

I've done a detailed analysis with maps of the same here. Do have a look:

https://theperspective.co.in/indian-arm ... h-tangste/
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Sanju »

Well written article Rohit.

Is there an email I can reach you at?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

Image
Almost a single section of Indian army with 3 different assault rifles + another gun, from 3 different countries and perhaps 2 or 3 different ammunition types.

IA Logistics must be an interesting place.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Maria »

jamwal wrote:Image
Almost a single section of Indian army with 3 different assault rifles + another gun, from 3 different countries and perhaps 2 or 3 different ammunition types.

IA Logistics must be an interesting place.
They look badass. Prolly paras going by the Tavors 2 are carrying. Can someone tell me how weapons are assigned in a paltan?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by vikassh »

jamwal wrote:Image
Almost a single section of Indian army with 3 different assault rifles + another gun, from 3 different countries and perhaps 2 or 3 different ammunition types.

IA Logistics must be an interesting place.
Sir most probably this is a special unit possibly from Para SF and not one of the regular units. Because they are carrying Tavors, M4 & Pika. These weapons are limited to special forces.

Across globe special units carry different type of weapons procured from different places depending on the nature of the assignment and circumstances. For example SEALs also use AK series rifles at times. Even Israeli special forces as well.

I have never seen any regular unit carrying so many different types.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

TWITTER:

https://twitter.com/Ak5985965/status/14 ... 00256?s=03

The Prince of Good Times (@Ak5985965) tweeted at 6:06 pm on Fri, Sep 03, 2021:
Much needed and high time. Alongwith that we should have a serious and open minded look at many colonial vestiges

1. Nam Namak Nishan - As someone pointed out to me recently (I hadn't thought of it) the Namak especially was British salary being paid to a mercenary army
1/N

of natives to protect the British empire. It signifies a debt to the British empire and not to the Dharti or Rashtra (civilisation)
The Indian Army does not have a आदर्श वाक्य / motto like all its Corps, Regiments do
Perhaps we shud have one. धर्मों रक्षित धर्मः is ideal
2/n

Dharma is fundamental to Indian Army. Western Command has the धर्म चक्र ,Gen Parnaik ex GOC n C NC often used the term "Sword of Dharma". Its in Regiment's, Corps' mottos. ASC - सेवा असामाकम धर्मः , Madras Regt - सधर्म निधानम श्रेष्ठ 
Another option could be धरती धर्म देश 
3/n

2. Next is changing some regimental insignia. The Kumaon Regiment derives it's from the Russel Family's coat of arms. It's a demi rampant lion holding the Christian Cross . Certainly does not gel with its war cry Kalika Mata ki Jai or its adarsh vakya Prakamo Vijayate
4/n

The Garhwal Rifles has the Maltese Cross in its insignia which does not gel with its adarsh vakya of Yudhaye Krit Nischya and war cry Badri Vishal Ki Jai
I think the rest of the Regiments and Corps are fine
3. The Navy needs to evaluate its use of the George Cross  
5/n

It was removed but was brought back again, I am told on Sonia Gandhi's insistence. We have a glorious maritime tradition from Cholas to Marthas that we can pick an apt and worthy flag from. Why do we have to persist with a colonial flag ?
4. We have changed adarash vakyas 

6/n
of many Corps and Regts after independence. Some battle honours of colonial times were also discarded as "repugnant". Time to complete the job and decolonise the Indian Armed Forces completely 
N/n
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