Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

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Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Last Page of Previous Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6809&start=4440
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Army to take strict action against serving officers, under training cadets who bribed their way into the force
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... rce/736115
23 March 2021
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Quad won't be military alliance but there will be military cooperation: Army Chief
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 81597.html
25 March 2021
His comments came two weeks after the top leadership of the Quad grouping of India, the US, Japan and Australia vowed to expand cooperation in the Indo-Pacific.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:Quad won't be military alliance but there will be military cooperation: Army Chief
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 81597.html
25 March 2021
Video of General MM Naravane saying the above....

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/137 ... 24291?s=20

Ashley Tellis confirming the same as General MM Naravane....

https://twitter.com/ThePrintIndia/statu ... 48969?s=20
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

The Quad: Hype vs Reality
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/up-f ... 2021-03-21
21 March 2021
China has fuelled the Quad’s development, with its military aggression in Ladakh helping to move India closer into this strategic grouping.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Vips »

After service of 132 years, Indian Army closes military farms.

After a service of 132 years, the Indian Army announced that the military farms will be closed down from Wednesday.

The military farms in India are spread over more than 20,000 acres of prime defence land across the country in cities such as Ambala, Kolkata, Srinagar, Agra, Pathankot, Lucknow, Meerut, Allahabad and Guwahati. (Use this real estate to raise Money to set up a thriving MIC in India)

The farms were established by the British Army for the production and supply of hygienic, wholesome and fresh cow milk to troops located in
various garrisons across India.

Speaking to ANI, Lieutenant General Shashank Mishra said: "After serving for almost 132 years, the military farm is ending its services. It was
established on February 1, 1889, in Allahabad, which is now Prayagraj, and by the time we got independence in 1947, India had 130 farms. At that time it was highly beneficial for us as the White Revolution had not begun. Verghese Kurien started Operation Flood in 1970."

Mishra also said the military farms had been a big contributor to the promotion of dairy farming, which has helped the army provide milk in inaccessible areas of the country.

"For this commendable work, I congratulate the members of the military farms on behalf of the Army Chief. Today the flag was taken down which is a very emotional moment for all of us. This flag will be installed in the army museum with the history of military farms," he said.

"The contribution of military farms will never be forgotten. Now milk is available everywhere, so it is being closed now and there has been a lot of expansion of the army, now we will use this land properly," he added.

The Lieutenant-General also said all cows have been offered to the states and the people working in the military farms have been assigned to other departments.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srai »

^^^
How many personnel were in the farm?

Non-essential legacy units like these would need to be trimmed to keep the modern IA lean. The revenue portion of the IA budget that covers wages and operating costs account for more than 80-90% of its allocated budget every year leaving little for capital acquisition.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jaysimha »

SHQ(Army) placed Project Sanction Order for prototype development of Mobile Integrated Network Terminal (MINT) to 11 Indian Firms under Make II category of DAP 2020

https://www.makeinindiadefence.gov.in/r ... tail/110/1
Robust communication support has always been a key enabler of combat potential of the field Army. Advancements in communication technologies have facilitated solutions which can be adapted and customized as per operational requirements to give a distinctive winning edge.

2. To this end, the Indian Army is in the process of procuring One Hundred and Twenty Nine (129) Mobile Integrated Network Terminal (MINT) systems under Make II category of DAP 2020. The system is envisaged as a lightweight, portable, state of art integrated communication solution with satellite backhaul and wireless access system to support voice, video and data. The Expression of Interest (EoI) of the project was uploaded on MoD website on 22 Jun 2020. Post evaluation of response submitted by the Indian Industry, a total of 11 (eleven) firms have been issued with the Project Sanction Order on 12 Mar 2021 for development of prototype. The Contract will subsequently be placed with one of the firms on successful development of prototype as per provisions of Buy (Indian-IDDM) of DAP 2020.

3. Development of MINT systems will enhance the operational communication capability of the field Army in consonance to the self-reliance vision of “Aatmanirbhar Bharat” for Defence production.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Very strange exploits of Naga regiment, wonder if they are facts or myth!!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Indian Army strengthens mountain strike corps looking after China border
Further strengthening its deployments along the Northern borders, the Indian Army is adding around 10,000 more troops to its only mountain strike corps responsible for looking after offensive operations along the China border.
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An existing Division formation, with around 10,000 troops, located in the Eastern sector has now been assigned to the 17 Mountain Strike Corps headquartered in West Bengal's Panagarh, government sources told ANI.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 29120?s=20 ---> Report: India's elite 17th Mountain Strike Corps gets another 10,000 troops along with equipment. The 17th MSC is tasked with carrying out combined arms offensives deep into China occupied Tibet during war.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 80288?s=20 ---> Leasing season in Indian military:

- IAF planning to lease aerial refuellers & basic trainer aircrafts.

- Indian Navy wants to lease minesweepers, tanker ships & utility helicopters.

- Indian Army to lease advanced MALE UAVs.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 01728?s=20 ---> Manufacturing of the Prachand anti-tank munition was handed over to industry at Aero India-21. The hardware will be made by Astra Microwave while Premier Explosives & Solar Industries will handle explosive filling. Army hasn't placed an order yet, they are likely to do so soon.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srin »

^^^^ I didn't first understand what kind of "anti-tank munition" it was. Is "underground anti-tank munition" a fancy way of saying "anti-tank mine" ?
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

DAC also approves Air Defence guns and ammunition for Army worth Rs 6,000 crore
The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), in its meeting held under the Chairmanship of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh on June 04, 2021, has approved proposals concerning Capital Acquisitions of various equipment for modernisation and operational needs of the Armed Forces amounting to approx. Rs 6,000 crore.
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There was a long pending need of the Indian Army for modernisation of its Air Defence guns. These had been earlier procured only from foreign sources. With the continued thrust of Ministry of Defence towards ‘ÁtmaNirbhar Bharat’ and ‘Make in India’, an enthusiastic response from about a dozen Indian companies was received. All of them have expressed their willingness and commitment to manufacture this complex gun system and associated equipment by ensuring technology assimilation in India. Accordingly, the DAC accorded approval of procurement of Air Defence Guns and Ammunition at an approx. cost of Rs 6,000 crore under the Buy & Make (Indian) category.

Further to better equip the Armed Forces to meet the operational challenges and facilitate faster induction of required arms and ammunition, the DAC extended the timelines for progressing urgent Capital Acquisitions under the delegated powers to the Armed Forces up to August 31, 2021. This will enable the Armed Forces to complete their emergent and critical acquisitions.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

IA stands for IMPORTING ARMY:

TWITTER

@TheWolfpackIN:
Report: Indian Army has sent RFI to Turkey's Otokar for Altay tank, in addition to sending RFI to several other countries (US, Russia, Italy, ROK, UK, Serbia, Ukraine, Israel) and India's DRDO for the FRCV project.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 28610?s=19
_________________________

https://thewire.in/security/light-tanks ... rocurement
In the mid-1980s, for instance, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) replaced the turret of the Soviet-designed BMP infantry combat vehicle (ICV) with a 105 mm gun, but the project was eventually terminated in 1994 due to indifference by the army. The latter declared the light tank to be superfluous, an assessment that would come to haunt it decades later in 2020.

Undaunted, the DRDO designed another light tank based on the same licence-built ICV chassis, by mounting it with a French GIAT TS-90 turret and a 105 mm gun. Firing and stability trials were conducted, but once again due to army indifference, the project was shelved.

It was temporarily revived in 2009 with the RFI, but this too got lost in the bureaucratic maze of army headquarters and was abandoned till the ongoing standoff with the PLA in Ladakh erupted in early May.

For, much as a testament to the Indian Army’s flawed assessments, backing the PLA formations in the face-off was the Chinese Type 15 light tank, also known as the ZTQ-15 that can be airlifted and even paradropped by China’s Y 20 military cargo aircraft.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by darshhan »

Manish_Sharma wrote:IA stands for IMPORTING ARMY:

TWITTER

@TheWolfpackIN:
Report: Indian Army has sent RFI to Turkey's Otokar for Altay tank, in addition to sending RFI to several other countries (US, Russia, Italy, ROK, UK, Serbia, Ukraine, Israel) and India's DRDO for the FRCV project.
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 28610?s=19
.......
And this is the organisation that is supposed to protect us by taking on PLA. The least they can do is to learn from the Chinese as in how they protect and encourage their own defence industry.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by wig »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 290857.cms

Army to set up new battle groups for offensive punch by next year
extracted
The initial lot of IBGs, each with around 5,000 soldiers and a varying mix of infantry, tanks, artillery, air defence, signals, engineers and other units
permanently deployed together, should be carved out of existing formations by early-2022, say officers.
further
This recalibration includes the change in the operational role of the 1 Corps towards the northern sector with China, including Ladakh, from the earlier focus on Pakistan. The truncated 17 Corps, in turn, will have a strike role in the eastern sector, including the Chumbi Valley opposite Sikkim, as was earlier reported by TOI.
“But the 1 Corps will also retain operational flexibility to deploy against Pakistan at short-notice. So, with an adequate number of acclimatized troops, the corps will be available for both China and Pakistan. This will be in addition to the Leh-based 14 Corps,” said an officer.
Overall, the Army has 14 corps (40,000 to 70,000 troops in each), with four of them being `strike’ or offensive formations. Apartfrom 1 Corps headquarters in Mathura) and 17 Corps (Panagarh), the two Pakistan-specific ones are 2 Corps (Ambala) and 21 Corps (Bhopal).
As for the composite IBGs, already war-gamed in exercises, the Army plans to first carve out 8-10 of them from the 9 Corps (Yol), 17 Corps (Panagarh) and 33 Corps (Sukna). To be commanded by Major-Generals, IBGs will be larger than brigades (3,000 soldiers each) but smaller than divisions (12,000 soldiers each).
“After the initial 8-10 IBGs have settled down, more will be created over the years. Different IBGs will be configured differently as per the threat, the type of terrain involved and the task to be achieved,” said another officer.
and
IBGs meant for Pakistan will be focused more on tanks and heavy artillery due to the plains involved, while the ones for China will revolve more around infantry and light artillery for mountain warfare
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Old but interesting topic


Last edited by VinodTK on 11 Jun 2021 01:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 290857.cms
The initial lot of IBGs, each with around 5,000 soldiers and a varying mix of infantry, tanks, artillery, air defence, signals, engineers and other units permanently deployed together, should be carved out of existing formations by early-2022, say officers.
As for the composite IBGs, already war-gamed in exercises, the Army plans to first carve out 8-10 of them from the 9 Corps (Yol), 17 Corps (Panagarh) and 33 Corps (Sukna). To be commanded by Major-Generals, IBGs will be larger than brigades (3,000 soldiers each) but smaller than divisions (12,000 soldiers each).
“After the initial 8-10 IBGs have settled down, more will be created over the years. Different IBGs will be configured differently as per the threat, the type of terrain involved and the task to be achieved,” said another officer.
So, IBGs meant for Pakistan will be focused more on tanks and heavy artillery due to the plains involved, while the ones for China will revolve more around infantry and light artillery for mountain warfare.
Long overdue move.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

Raksha Mantri Shri @rajnathsingh has approved the policy on archiving, declassification and compilation/publication of war/operations histories by the Ministry of Defence. The policy envisages that each organisation under the MoD will transfer the records, including war diaries, letters of proceedings & operational record books, etc., to the History Division for proper upkeep, archival and writing the histories.

https://twitter.com/DefenceMinIndia/sta ... 4399725569
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Paul »

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... a-7353069/
Clash between Indian and Tajik cadets: AFT puts on hold Army order removing two Indian cadets from IMA

The Army has contended that it was only after requisite vetting and approval that strict disciplinary actions have been taken against six foreign GCs and four Indian GCs for violating instructions concerning discipline in the academy.



Written by Man Aman Singh Chhina | Chandigarh |
Updated: June 10, 2021 8:06:34 pm
Indian army newsAs reported by The Indian Express on June 9, the Army has taken action against six Indian GCs and four Tajik GCs for a clash that took place in IMA on March 3. (File)
The principal bench of the Armed Forces Tribunal (AFT), New Delhi, has directed that the Army’s orders withdrawing two Gentleman Cadets (GCs) from Indian Military Academy (IMA), Dehradun, on allegations of having been involved in a clash with GCs from Tajikistan, shall be held in abeyance and that status quo shall be maintained till next date of hearing.

The Army had issued orders on June 7 directing that the two GCs, who were originally jawans undergoing training in IMA to become officers, to be withdrawn from training and be returned to their respective units. One GC was originally a Gunner in the Regiment of Artillery, while the other was from EME and they were relieved from the IMA accordingly.

Passing orders Thursday in petitions filed by the two GCs, the bench comprising Justice Rajendra Prasad Menon and Lt Gen PM Hariz has stated, “Considering the manner in which action has been taken for relieving the applicant from the course, prime facie, we find that the requirements of principles of natural justice and the statutory provisions have not been complied with before taking the impugned decision. Considering the same, we direct that status quo in the matter as on today shall be maintained and the order of discharge of the applicant from the course in question shall be kept in abeyance till the next date of hearing on which date further orders would be passed after considering the reply affidavit of the respondents.”


As reported by The Indian Express on June 9, the Army has taken action against six Indian GCs and four Tajik GCs for a clash that took place in IMA on March 3.

This clash had been preceded by altercations and fights on February 24 and March 2. The Army has also issued show cause notices for award of ‘Censure’ to a Battalion Commander and other officers in IMA for failing to appreciate the gravity of the situation and acting promptly.

In his petition before the AFT, one of the GCs has pleaded that as a third term cadet in Hajipir Company of Cariappa Battalion he was on the cusp of passing out from the academy as an officer on June 12 when he was removed from the academy on June 7 and ordered to report back to the Artillery Centre in Nasik in his original rank of Gunner.

He has contended in his petition that on March 3, 2021 around 21 GCs of Tajikistan entered his room and broke upon the latches and beat Indian GCs present in the room using hockey sticks and rods injuring many Indian GCs and resulting in a medico-legal case. He added that he, along with seven other Indian GCs, were admitted to Military Hospital, Dehradun, and were initially admitted in ICU.

The petitioner has also contended that following the conclusion of a Court of Inquiry in April, he was issued a show cause notice on June 4 seeking his explanation as to why disciplinary action should not be taken against him.

“It is submitted that the copy of the Court of Inquiry was not supplied to him and he was issued the showcause notice at around 4 pm and was told verbally to reply by 9 am on June 5, 2021, which is humanly not possible,” the petition states.

He has stated that the Army authorities have not provided any opportunity to him for his defence and finished his aspiration of becoming an officer in an “illegal and high handed manner”. This is an opportunity which is available to only 0.01 per cent jawans in the Army.

He has also submitted that some of the other GCs have been relegated and no investigation has been carried out against the Tajikistan GCs against whom medico-legal case was registered and thus gross injustice has been done to him.

The GC has also alleged that the Tajik GCs were habitual offenders and that they kept mobile phones in the rooms which was against the regulations of their academy. The petitioner stated that he and other GCs were saved from the “merciless attack by the Tajikistan GCs by the Company Commander and other officers and as per the IMA Adjutant’s statement during the Court of Inquiry, the foreign GCs were not getting controlled by the officers and the Adjutant had to call armed guards of the Quick Reaction Team to control the Tajikistan GCs”.

The Army has contended that it was only after requisite vetting and approval that strict disciplinary actions have been taken against six foreign GCs and four Indian GCs for violating instructions concerning discipline in the academy.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

How do Foreigners misbehave in India- Indians would dare do that in a Foreign country.

Foreign Trainees must be restricted to small groups of 3 or 4.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 787387.cms

Army now wants 1,750 new futuristic infantry combat vehicles :lol:
The Army now wants to acquire 1,750 futuristic infantry combat vehicles (FICVs), with state of the art weapons and capable of swiftly transporting soldiers, through a new `Make in India’ project in the years ahead.
The Army has issued a RFI (request for information) to “identify probable Indian vendors”, who are capable of commencing supply of the tracked FICVs within two years of the contract being inked, with at least 75-100 “fully-formed vehicles” per year.
An earlier project for 2,300 FICVs has remained stuck in bureaucratic bottlenecks, corporate rivalry and controversies despite first being accorded “acceptance of necessity” by the defence ministry way back in October 2009.
The new RFI says the tracked FICVs will be employed for cross-country operations, including amphibious ones, in plains and deserts along the Pakistan front as well as mountainous terrain and high-altitude areas (up to 5,000-metre) on the China one. :roll:
The FICVs should have weapon systems capable of destroying enemy tanks, armoured personnel carriers, low-flying helicopters and other ground-based weapon platforms and positions.
The tracked vehicles should provide “protected mobility” to its crew and troops in the different terrains, including CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear) environment, says the RFI.
The FICVs should have an operational life of at least 32 years with maximum one overhaul or repair intervention, and be capable of being transported by existing in-service tank transporter vehicles of the Army, IAF transport aircraft and broad-gauge railway military bogies.
They missed capability to destroy submarines.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Barath »

jamwal wrote:https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 787387.cms

Army now wants 1,750 new futuristic infantry combat vehicles :lol:
The Army now wants to acquire 1,750 futuristic infantry combat vehicles (FICVs), with state of the art weapons and capable of swiftly transporting soldiers, through a new `Make in India’ project in the years ahead.
The Army has issued a RFI (request for information) to “identify probable Indian vendors”, who are capable of commencing supply of the tracked FICVs within two years of the contract being inked, with at least 75-100 “fully-formed vehicles” per year.
The Saga

http://www.spslandforces.com/story/?id= ... ndian-Army

Ep 1. DRDO starts developing Abhay as a pre tech dem for replacing BMP 2 ,in Late 1990s-2005. It was supposed to become a private public partnership

Ep 2. EOI sent to Tata, L&T, Mahindra Defence, OFB in 2008/2009 under Make category. 3000 FICV for ~$10 bn

Ep 2a. Responses were supposedly inconsistently evaluated , and the process was scrapped.

Ep 3. New govt, New AoN in 2014, restart with EOI sent to 10 vendors including Punj Lloyd, AL, Bharat Forge. Foreign companies planned JVs. Make category was supposed to have GoI pay for 2 prototypes by 2 development agencies (DA). Intrigue, politicking and bottlenecks galore. OFB proposal to partner DRDO rejected as DRDO was to be the judge of the technology

3A. Sideshow : US,israel, india make an offer

Ep 3B : New Govt introduces Make II Model in the DPP in 2016

(Major Plot Point)

In 2018 Reliance, Mahindra and Titagarh Wagons submit a proposal to make prototypes on own cost under Make II (guaranteed orders thereafter). This queers the pitch for the previous EOI, [Mission Accomplished?] and the MoD sends everything back to the army.

FICV initiative is stuck.

Ep 3C: India orders $145 million upgrade for some BMP2 as a stopgap measure.

Ep 3D: India looking at light tanks (bigger gun on a BMP3/ICV platform), leaning towards Sprut. If FICV had been matured or produced for india, the logical answer would have been to upgun that FICV. Alas.


Ep 4: New RFI by Army for 1750 FICV. AoN (Not yet, I assume) Make in India model TBD
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by sum »

Literally every acquisition saga of the IA makes one run to the nearest corner and weep

And sad story is 20th or 21st or 22nd century, the same story repeats even if there are flashes of hope shown at the start of every process that it will be different this time
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

When it comes to indigenization, I feel both Navy and Air Force have somewhat moved towards it... Atleast there is consensus at the top level to only buy silver bullets from foreign companies...
But Army seems to be stuck with import pasand ppl at every decision making level...
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by mody »

The requirement for FICV should be 3 times what is asked for in the latest proposal. 1,750 FICV will hardly cut it. IA should have a much higher level of mechanization.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by nachiket »

mody wrote:The requirement for FICV should be 3 times what is asked for in the latest proposal. 1,750 FICV will hardly cut it. IA should have a much higher level of mechanization.
This FICV is the BMP II replacement I guess. The major bulk of mechanization can be provided by a cheaper wheeled platform like the WhAP. But there are barely any orders for it.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by mody »

nachiket wrote:
mody wrote:The requirement for FICV should be 3 times what is asked for in the latest proposal. 1,750 FICV will hardly cut it. IA should have a much higher level of mechanization.
This FICV is the BMP II replacement I guess. The major bulk of mechanization can be provided by a cheaper wheeled platform like the WhAP. But there are barely any orders for it.
The orders for WhAP that are being talked about are in the range of 100 units. That's almost a joke. The BMP2s are being upgraded and the BMP2's in service are about 2,500 nos.
The IA should have close to 10,000 ICVs in a combination of WhAP, FICV and upgraded BMP-2.

There was a discussion in the armour thread as well sometime back, about the lop sided force structure of IA. There is a holding of over 5,000-6,000 MBTs, as opposed to 2,500 ICVs and a total of 15-20 off Mi-35s and 22 Apache attack helicopters. For the future, the number of ICVs, with dedicated platforms like NAMICA should go up and the number of MBTs may reduce somewhat. The number of attack helicopters would need to increase to about 200 LCH, plus 28 Apache, plus 72 Rudra armed helicopters.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by srai »

:mrgreen:

shivFlag of India
@bennedose
·
Jun 2
Releasing RFI for vaccine on lines of FICV RFI
1. Should cover all diseases
2. Should anticipate and cover all future diseases
3. Should cure everything
4. Satcom, quantum comm capable
5. Applicable to animals also
6. Proven role as plant fertiliser
7. Lifetime Warranty
https://twitter.com/bennedose/status/14 ... 81347?s=20
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

https://hindi.swarajyamag.com/news/indi ... ote]भारतीय सेना को आज (2 जुलाई) स्वदेशी रूप से विकसित 12 लघु लंबाई पुल प्रणालियाँ सिस्टम प्राप्त हुईं। ये छोटी नदियों और नहरों जैसी बाधाओं को पार करने में सेना की सहायता करेंगी। 10-10 मीटर के ये छोटे पुल पाकिस्तान से सटी पश्चिमी सीमाओं पर संचालन के लिए होंगे।

हिंदुस्तान लाइव की रिपोर्ट के अनुसार, सेना प्रमुख जनरल मनोज मुकुंद नरावणे ने दिल्ली कैंट में कोर ऑफ इंजीनियर्स को ये उपकरण सौंपें। इनका मूल्य 492 करोड़ रुपये से अधिक है।[/quote]

492 crores for just 12 bridges or some thing else too?
ये पुल विभिन्न प्रकार की जल बाधाओं पर 70 टन तक टैंक ले जाने में सक्षम हैं।
So good enough for Arjun.
venkat_kv
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by venkat_kv »

darshhan wrote:
jamwal wrote:We lose 600+ of our best men in a shitty conflict like kargil. 100s die every year in CI operations in our own controlled territories and we still can't destroy terrorism infrastructure even after decades of bloodshed. 100s die in a crappy Bluestar, dozens in Mumbai attack, Maoists attacks and more.

Pray how can anyone claim this army well trained or well equipped or uses great tactics? I am ignoring corruption and arms procurement drama.
I have huge respect for servicemen and I know that a vast majority of them try to do their jobs in the best way they can but such claims that armed forces are doing well or are best are delusional.
Exactly. IA was actually doing ww2 style frontal charges in Kargil and touting that as battlefield prowess. The truth is that Kargil only highlighted obsolence, inability to conduct joint operations and lack of imagination on Army's part. The only saving grace was the conduct of junior leadership(colonels and below) along with the sheer courage of our jawans that saved the day for us. Ideally the Generals should have been court martialled.

On top of it they think that doing job of J&K police and BSF gives them great battlefield experience. Mark my words in the next conflict again many young guys will die needlessly because of the incompetence and malfeasance on the part of senior Army leadership. Now I am not that stickler for human life nor do I hold the western viewpoint that all human life is sacred. Warriors have always fallen in Battlefield and will continue to die. If anything the future battlefield will be far more lethal for a soldier because of the rapid advancement of technologies such as loitering munitions, persistent AI enabled surveillance, Swarm etc. The survival rate will be lower than it is today. But is it fair if soldiers died because the military forgot to order requisite quantity of Artillery guns or UAVs in time?

An average army general today would be huffing and puffing today just to reach China national highway 219 in Aksai chin. While General Zorawar Singh was taking a bath in Mansarovar lake like a boss in 19th century that too without any specialized cold weather or high altitude equipment. True Warrior. Lived like one and died like one. Tell me who should we admire.

Instead of playing golf and having elaborate ceremonial dinners with British era rituals, our Army should actually focus on fighting. And by fighting I mean the real wars of conquest and not substituting J&K police/CRPF/BSF.
Responding to darshhan Saar's quote from Artillery thread,
Darshhan Saar,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but pray, what should the army have used for tactics instead of climbing the peaks and finally charging at the enemy (ala WW 2 style as you eloquently put it) once the govt declared we would not cross the border to throw the enemy out.
And this was in 1999, so what we had for satellite analysis and humint would also qualify for any alternate routes. I believe they had taken peak after peak and then finally flanked the pakis as the time went on. You will find some of these in the "Regimental Diaries" series in netflix or if you can go through old BRF discussions of that time.
The army does what is presented with various options and no country in the world has an army that is involved in wars in the past 50 years other than the US, if you want the Indian army to fight every decade or so, you should be be willing to live in much more poorer conditions in the country (provided you are staying in India and making this observation) than what it is today.

The country whose economy opened up after 1991 due to compulsions is still trying to chart its course with respect to economy and swadeshi.
The Indian Army keeps updating itself with various exercises and staff college courses, but theoretical analysis will only take you so far. Even the joint practices we keep doing with various countries every year ain't cheap based on one report. We have been facing terrorism for the good chunk of past 3-4 decades and the army has evolved itself to fight along the same.
Maybe these observations for your analysis will also help.
Coming to General Zorawar Singh, his army was defeated ultimately from the one that came from Lhasa I think unfortunately. Even he would have prepared his army for the climate conditions and terrain, boss comments not withstanding. This is not a videogame btw to warrant such statements. The comparison between one of an outstanding general of his time in Zorawar Singh with any other general today that is not tasked with the chinese border is pointless. After all Zorawar Singh wasn't the only general who was around his time, how many of his peers have achieved the same as him, to put it in your terms mildly.

You will find brilliant individuals in the army all the time and their stories only come out when they have retired from Service or unfortunately from this world in most cases. An example would be Capt. Mohit Sharma. that wouldn't make the rest of the captains in the army any less.
darshhan
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by darshhan »

venkat_kv wrote:
darshhan wrote:
Exactly. IA was actually doing ww2 style frontal charges in Kargil and touting that as battlefield prowess. The truth is that Kargil only highlighted obsolence, inability to conduct joint operations and lack of imagination on Army's part. The only saving grace was the conduct of junior leadership(colonels and below) along with the sheer courage of our jawans that saved the day for us. Ideally the Generals should have been court martialled.

On top of it they think that doing job of J&K police and BSF gives them great battlefield experience. Mark my words in the next conflict again many young guys will die needlessly because of the incompetence and malfeasance on the part of senior Army leadership. Now I am not that stickler for human life nor do I hold the western viewpoint that all human life is sacred. Warriors have always fallen in Battlefield and will continue to die. If anything the future battlefield will be far more lethal for a soldier because of the rapid advancement of technologies such as loitering munitions, persistent AI enabled surveillance, Swarm etc. The survival rate will be lower than it is today. But is it fair if soldiers died because the military forgot to order requisite quantity of Artillery guns or UAVs in time?

An average army general today would be huffing and puffing today just to reach China national highway 219 in Aksai chin. While General Zorawar Singh was taking a bath in Mansarovar lake like a boss in 19th century that too without any specialized cold weather or high altitude equipment. True Warrior. Lived like one and died like one. Tell me who should we admire.

Instead of playing golf and having elaborate ceremonial dinners with British era rituals, our Army should actually focus on fighting. And by fighting I mean the real wars of conquest and not substituting J&K police/CRPF/BSF.
Responding to darshhan Saar's quote from Artillery thread,
Darshhan Saar,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but pray, what should the army have used for tactics instead of climbing the peaks and finally charging at the enemy (ala WW 2 style as you eloquently put it) once the govt declared we would not cross the border to throw the enemy out.
And this was in 1999, so what we had for satellite analysis and humint would also qualify for any alternate routes. I believe they had taken peak after peak and then finally flanked the pakis as the time went on. You will find some of these in the "Regimental Diaries" series in netflix or if you can go through old BRF discussions of that time.
The army does what is presented with various options and no country in the world has an army that is involved in wars in the past 50 years other than the US, if you want the Indian army to fight every decade or so, you should be be willing to live in much more poorer conditions in the country (provided you are staying in India and making this observation) than what it is today.

The country whose economy opened up after 1991 due to compulsions is still trying to chart its course with respect to economy and swadeshi.
The Indian Army keeps updating itself with various exercises and staff college courses, but theoretical analysis will only take you so far. Even the joint practices we keep doing with various countries every year ain't cheap based on one report. We have been facing terrorism for the good chunk of past 3-4 decades and the army has evolved itself to fight along the same.
Maybe these observations for your analysis will also help.
Coming to General Zorawar Singh, his army was defeated ultimately from the one that came from Lhasa I think unfortunately. Even he would have prepared his army for the climate conditions and terrain, boss comments not withstanding. This is not a videogame btw to warrant such statements. The comparison between one of an outstanding general of his time in Zorawar Singh with any other general today that is not tasked with the chinese border is pointless. After all Zorawar Singh wasn't the only general who was around his time, how many of his peers have achieved the same as him, to put it in your terms mildly.

You will find brilliant individuals in the army all the time and their stories only come out when they have retired from Service or unfortunately from this world in most cases. An example would be Capt. Mohit Sharma. that wouldn't make the rest of the captains in the army any less.
Your point is valid there. Once Atal govt forbade the forces from crossing the LOC, it practically precluded the Generals from showcasing their strategic imagination and operational accumen. In other words there was hardly any room for demonstrating their generalship.

But what about ensuring jointness with Airforce, stockpiling Precision guided munitions(both air launched as well as artillery), adequate amount of equipment including but not limited to body armor, cold weather clothing etc. Ideally this process should have started in early 90's. However clearly the ball was dropped then and well......

I also stated clearly that it was junior officers and other ranks which performed admirably and saved the day for us. It is true even today especially wrt COIN. Captain Mohit Sharma falls in the same category.

And when importance of indigenization, jointness, faster procurement and most importantly shunning personal ego and promoting merit is lost upon our military leadership, then what exactly is being taught in the staff college courses and other training?

As far as our historical military figures like General Zorawar Singh and Bajirao Rao are concerned, I doubt if anyone in senior echelons of our current military can match upto them. The reasons are many and beyond the scope of my post. Sure there have been exceptions in our post 1947 military like General Harbaksh Singh(1965) and General Sagat Singh(1971, Nathula) but as I said these are exceptions.
jamwal
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

Is no one going to mention how Pakis managed to cross border and occupy Indian posts without our Army having any idea about it, just like 1965?
How many officers were penalised for this massive failure? Just one Brigadier. Even his trial was declared to be a sham.
Everyone from top to bottom slept soundly and nation paid the price. Did they learn any lesson from it? Nope.
They asked for high altitude helicopters and bought Apaches to get even with IAF. No LCH which was designed specifically for the job.
Felt shortage of artillery and operational situation is still same after 22 years.
BPJs and other similar stuff started proper induction 18 years after this.
Have they made any substantial doctrinal and strategical changes? After seeing drama going on with China, don't really think so. Chinese occupied huge patches of Indian territory and created infrastructure right up to our positions. All the action started after they started to knock on our doors.

1999 showed that we didn't have artillery, WLRs, proper troop armour, high altitude attack helicopters, accurate guided bombs and sufficient air power for ground attack. 2020 lessons are that we don't have light tanks, ATGMs, SRBMs, artillery and attack helicopters. 2040 will expose more shortcomings and the cycle will go on.

Indian army as an institution is just as inefficient and corrupt as civil service. Exceptionally good junior officers and lower ranks sometimes save the day, but that's about it.
darshhan
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by darshhan »

jamwal wrote:.....

Indian army as an institution is just as inefficient and corrupt as civil service. Exceptionally good junior officers and lower ranks sometimes save the day, but that's about it.
The question is "for how long?". As long as the struggle was mainly with Pakis, we rode it out 'cause their army is probably even worse than ours although more agressive. But now that combined china pak threat is looming ahead, I am worried.

Whatever junior officers and jawans of IA can do, they do it. What they cannot do, generally doesn't get done. Once in a while you can get aggressive and competent Generals like Sagat Singh or GD Bakshi, but usually it is the Yes Men who reach the top.

The most shameful part is that IA has been unable to protect its own. One only has to recall how Col Shrikant Purohit and Col Hunny Bakshi(TSD) were left to fend for themselves.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Last few posts make for a depressing read. But I guess it is good to be depressed in peace time then to loose a war.

I guess the PM calling on the forces for the development of indigenous doctrines is a first of many steps in the right direction.

But we need to make haste quickly.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by mody »

If we look at all the countries that have been successful in establishing a robust MIC, there are a few common threads that emerge. The first is that the country should see the military as a means of enforcing its national will and as an integral part of its foreign policy. The military is a part of national government setup and an extension of its foreign policy. This is true in the case of all the countries that have a successful MIC.
Even in democratic countries like the US, the military is consulted and is in the loop in many foreign policy initiatives and retired military officials are part of fairly influential think tanks, which guide US policy.
Unfortunately in India, it is not so. The military has always been kept at an arm’s length by the government and forget foreign policy, the military has not always been consulted even in military matters by the government. I shall cite examples for the same below.
IFS officer’s opinions would probably count for more, than that of service chiefs as things stand in the Indian government.

As I said above, in India the military has hardly been consulted in foreign policy matters and many times have not been fully consulted even in Military matters.
In 1948, Nehru did not consult the military while declaring a ceasefire and referring the matter to the UN. After capturing Zo-ji la pass, the offensive wasn’t pursued into Baltistan, as Nehru was told by Sheikh Abdulla, that he did not have influence in that region and could not guarantee loyalty to India!!
The case of 1962 is too well known and apart from the military not being consulted, it was systematically hampered.
In 1965 also, the military was not part of the ceasefire negotiations in Tashkent otherwise, we would not have agreed to give back the Haji Pir pass, which links Poonch and Uri and offers an alternative to the Banihal pass to connect Jammu and Kashmir. Even the military itself failed in this case, as the then Army chief Gen Choudhary was reportedly consulted by LBS before declaring ceasefire, however, the good general had no idea about the inventory situation of our ammunition and possible situation of Pakistan regarding the same. For an army chief in war time, this is down right shameful.
In 1999, the government declared that India would fight only in its own controlled territory and would not cross the LoC. I doubt the military was consulted before making this announcement and if it was consulted, its objections were set aside, even though this should have been a purely military issue.
We celebrate Kargil as a victory, but I am not so sure. What exactly did we win? We did not gain anything in the conflict. At least post mid June, the self imposed moratorium on not crossing the LoC should have been dropped and we should have captured territory as the pakis were retreating. An area at least 50 Kms due west of the Saltoro ridge and 10-15 Kms west/north west of Turtuk should have been captured. This would have solved the Siachen issue for us, something which Musharaf was trying to do and also ensure that Pakistan would not be able to do a repeat of Kargil in the future. Except as the consequence of our victory, all we got was that we now have to patrol and man the Kargil heights throughout the year and as a consolation Pakistan lost face internationally and a few hundred of its uniformed cannon fodder were killed. The pakis don’t care about either and Mush recovered from the international loss of face pretty quickly.
There is no guarantee that the Pakis would not carry our a Kargil-2.0 in the very same area. We could have pressed ON and captured some part of the territory to ensure that this would not be possible in the future. Even the bleeding in Siachen in man, material and resources could have been stopped easily, if Siachen and the Saltoro ridge was taken out of paki reach. No monetary compensation was obtained from the pakis either.
Then what exactly did we WIN!!! All that happened was that we lost about 650 brave hearts with many more injured and managed to get back the land that the pakis had intruded into. I wouldn't call this victory.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by jamwal »

https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/indian- ... g-kashmir/

Indian Army firing range named after Bollywood actress Vidya Balan, people express disappointment

Major Manik M Jolly, however, has denied that the firing range has been named after the actress. According to him, a temporary welcome board was put up when she visited the site and somehow, the matter was twisted to peddle the narrative that it was named after her.
The decision was taken in recognition of her contribution to Indian cinema, reports say. Earlier in the year, the actress and her husband Siddharth Roy Kapoor had attended the Gulmarg Winter Festival organised by the Indian Army.

People on social media, however, are not happy over the matter and believe that the firing range could be named after someone more appropriate.
Image :lol:
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by darshhan »

In another recent news an Army jawan Dilip Thakur was lynched in a Gurudwara in Punjab by a sikh mob just because he was a hindu. I am pretty sure if someone happens to visit this Gurudwara he will find Photos eulogising Bhindrawale.

I do hope that Army takes his case seriously and pursues it diligently to ensure his family members get the required justice. The Army should not forget this case like they left Col Shrikant Purohit.
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