Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

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Ankit Desai
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

---Post Edited----

Already Posted in the Vikrant Thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6308&p=2523633#p2523633
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 71944?s=20 ---> A 2-member Indian Naval delegation led by Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar, FOC-in-C WNC at the 7th Edition of the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) Conclave of Chiefs hosted by the French Navy at Paris from 15 - 16 Nov 2021. Conclave being attended by Chiefs of Navies/Heads of Lead Maritime Agencies of IONS nations.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Barath wrote:[Feedback to Edited Post: Acknowledge & the link is useful to collate discussion. But surely news on a carrier which is not Vikrant would be appropriate here ?]
Agreed, but posters will have the same discussion in various threads. Thus the need to collate it in one thread.

If there was a thread on IAC-2, this new article would have been posted in there.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 86022?s=20 ---> Anyway, the first of the 'new' Sandhayak-Class large Survey Vessels, being built by GRSE, Kolkata, is due to be launched in early December 2021. Image courtesy: Indian Navy. 4 units are being built.
Can't this design be modified for the fleet oiler requirement?? The one that required Turkish support?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 86022?s=20 ---> Anyway, the first of the 'new' Sandhayak-Class large Survey Vessels, being built by GRSE, Kolkata, is due to be launched in early December 2021. Image courtesy: Indian Navy. 4 units are being built.
Can't this design be modified for the fleet oiler requirement?? The one that required Turkish support?
Fleet oilers are much bigger they will be one of biggest vessel in the fleet where as these survey vessels are around 4000 tons. We would need a new design as we haven’t built anything like that even Aditya built by GRSE won’t suite for fleet oiler role. Orginally Koreans where supposed to provide the design with one being built in Korea but we cancelled it because we wanted a cheaper option.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Barath »

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/146 ... 86022?s=20 ---> Anyway, the first of the 'new' Sandhayak-Class large Survey Vessels, being built by GRSE, Kolkata, is due to be launched in early December 2021. Image courtesy: Indian Navy. 4 units are being built.
Can't this design be modified for the fleet oiler requirement?? The one that required Turkish support?
Survey Vessel 3300 tons , 14-16 knots, hydrographic survey.

Fleet tankers and support
The vessels will be 230 metres long and have a displacement of 45,000 tonnes.
FSVs carry fuel and other supplies for warships.
Double hulled tanker, carry fuel and cargo, have cranes/gantry and choppers for replenishment

I'm actually kinda impressed how diverse a pair of designs could be proposed modification and re-use. ~14x the size and different purposes and needs. I'm not sure if there would be any other such disparate designs. I can only think of things like a frigate into a carrier or dinghy into a destroyer (my imagination is limited)
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Aditya G »

Human minds are unfortunately unable to comprehend the size of an object without relative visual comparison. INS Jyoti is actually one of INs Top-3 ships by displacement.

Anyhow, a more pertinent question is whether ships can take up multiple roles in this era of tight budgets? Or are multi-role ships even cost effective? The SVL can perform a OPV role, but if you consume survey ships for patrol, why not simply order OPVs and survey ships? No easy answers here.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Navy wants to become 170-warship force in 10 years
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 743859.cms
16 Nov 2021
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Aditya G wrote:The SVL can perform a OPV role, but if you consume survey ships for patrol, why not simply order OPVs and survey ships? No easy answers here.
Using a survey vessel for patrol is not cost prudent they have much larger crew and larger, hence as a result more expensive to operate. These are also much slower than any of offshore patrol vessel and have much lower range as well.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by vsunder »

What about minesweepers? Are they not glamorous enough to warrant discussion? IN has none and mines are a cheap way to be of sufficient nuisance to allocate resources to locate them, and which can detract from other efforts. The last minesweeper was phased out in 2019. It shows poor resource planning by IN that they are running around for some second hand maal from anyone. The Brits are giving their decommissioned sweepers to the Ukraine.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Using a survey ship for patrolling is the worst possible tradeoff a navy can make.

The survey ship is a highly specialised asset. It's designed to perform tasks that no other ship in the fleet can.

By using that ship to perform patrolling function is like asking a trauma surgeon to man a police check post in times of war. Instead of treatment of battlefield injuries.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by ramana »

vsunder wrote:What about minesweepers? Are they not glamorous enough to warrant discussion? IN has none and mines are a cheap way to be of sufficient nuisance to allocate resources to locate them, and which can detract from other efforts. The last minesweeper was phased out in 2019. It shows poor resource planning by IN that they are running around for some second hand maal from anyone. The Brits are giving their decommissioned sweepers to the Ukraine.
Good point. IN early days built up on minesweepers.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Barath »

Indian Navy to commission Scorpene-class submarine INS Vela on Thursday

https://www.timesnownews.com/amp/india/ ... day/834876
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Barath »

vsunder wrote:What about minesweepers? .
Every ship can be a minesweeper - once
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

So that 16 Diesel Subs + INS Arihant and INS Arigat in Indian Navy.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Every time I see this news, while it makes one happy, I am tempted to ask "Why couldn't we just order 6 more and just be done with it?" Ok make it an AIP-Scorpene even if its the French AIP. Keep the induction going.

After the 12 Scorpenes, no more imports. Desi SSKs with desi AIPs.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by AkshaySG »

Now that we have finally figured out how to start churning Scorpene's out a good pace the order is about to end..

We always bear the cost of initial delays and difficulties in a project but then never keep them going long enough to truly take advantage of that knowledge that came with TOT

Could have easily had a follow up order of 4 more/6 more Scorpene but no we're gonna go through the whole miserable process again for p-75I.. Probably start getting some around 2035 stop at 6 and then repeat.

This way we're never truly increasing our fleet size.. We're just replacing what's old or battling against time to stay at minimum sanctioned strength.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by chetak »

vsunder wrote:What about minesweepers? Are they not glamorous enough to warrant discussion? IN has none and mines are a cheap way to be of sufficient nuisance to allocate resources to locate them, and which can detract from other efforts. The last minesweeper was phased out in 2019. It shows poor resource planning by IN that they are running around for some second hand maal from anyone. The Brits are giving their decommissioned sweepers to the Ukraine.
the specialized tech for the minesweeper hull is not available in India/accessible to us.

the one almost finalized deal fell through and after that none have been forthcoming AFAIK

not for lack of trying on our side.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by sum »

AkshaySG wrote:Now that we have finally figured out how to start churning Scorpene's out a good pace the order is about to end..

We always bear the cost of initial delays and difficulties in a project but then never keep them going long enough to truly take advantage of that knowledge that came with TOT
Heartbreaking that keeps repeating every single time and even when known at the start of the project, we still go ahead and repeat it ( in this case chasing a never-going-materialize P-75I and ending up idling the lines instead of pushing out more Scorpenes)
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by kit »

chetak wrote:
vsunder wrote:What about minesweepers? Are they not glamorous enough to warrant discussion? IN has none and mines are a cheap way to be of sufficient nuisance to allocate resources to locate them, and which can detract from other efforts. The last minesweeper was phased out in 2019. It shows poor resource planning by IN that they are running around for some second hand maal from anyone. The Brits are giving their decommissioned sweepers to the Ukraine.
the specialized tech for the minesweeper hull is not available in India/accessible to us.

the one almost finalized deal fell through and after that none have been forthcoming AFAIK

not for lack of trying on our side.
Nonmagnetic Hull apparently is key..Russians have fiberglass reinforced hulls for their minesweepers
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by chetak »

kit wrote:
chetak wrote:
the specialized tech for the minesweeper hull is not available in India/accessible to us.

the one almost finalized deal fell through and after that none have been forthcoming AFAIK

not for lack of trying on our side.
Nonmagnetic Hull apparently is key..Russians have fiberglass reinforced hulls for their minesweepers
generally speaking, fiberglass is quite problematic but still, one of the better options
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

https://theprint.in/opinion/brahmastra/ ... ow/772059/

A nice encapsulation of the planning related issues faced by the Indian Navy.

I have repeatedly been asking for an increase in the size of the Indian Navy and Air force by 2050. Because of the threat it will be presenting to the rest of the world.

We have the pieces needed to build a force needed to deal with the PRC by 2050. But for some reasons we don't seem to be able to get our act together.

I hope that the constant PRC pressure will change our outlook substantially.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by jaysimha »

Webinar on Marine Propulsion Auxiliaries and Electrical System;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88YbpfhN0GQ
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

https://youtube.com/c/IndianNavyOfficialChannel

Link to the Indian Navy official you tube link.

I just stumbled on to it.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by yensoy »

As per Indian Post department, INS Kalvari is the first sub constructed in India, and that was in 2017: Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Kalva ... _India.jpg

But INS Arihant was already launched in 2009 and commissioned by 2016 if Wiki is to be believed.

So is the Indian Post department being a little behind the times, or do we pretend INS Arihant doesn't exist?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by V_Raman »

didnt we build some of the HDW submarines first?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

V_Raman wrote:didnt we build some of the HDW submarines first?
The last two were built by MDL.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Barath »

Yup. INS Shalki it is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Shalki_(S46)

Commissioned in 1992
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Why the Indian Navy needs to invoke the spirit of Admiral Nanda
https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2021-12-01
01 Dec 2021

By Sandeep Unnithan
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by chetak »

Image
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Happy Navy Day.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 88865?s=20 ---> The Indian Navy has upgraded at least one Veer Class missile boat with the Israeli EL-2238 STAR radar.

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 81729?s=20 ---> Image of INS Pralaya, a Veer Class missile boat - released today by the Navy. Appears to be significantly upgraded with an Israeli EL/M 2238 STAR multi-purpose air and surface search radar in addition to a BEL Lynx U1 fire control radar. This is a pocket battleship.

https://twitter.com/Aryan_warlord/statu ... 45318?s=20 ---> The STAR should let the INS Pralaya use it's Kh-35 component far more effectively. A force multiplier this is.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by VinodTK »

Navy Telefilm 2021 (Hindi)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 28449?s=20 ---> Contract for the five Fleet Support Ships (FSS) for Indian Navy's to be inked by March 2022: HSL
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 28449?s=20 ---> Contract for the five Fleet Support Ships (FSS) for Indian Navy's to be inked by March 2022: HSL
With our well wishers, the Turks?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by SSridhar »

Hindustan Shipyard Ltd.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

So if this deal goes through we will have a lot of Turkish personnel at Vizag Port. The more one thinks about it, the lesser sense this makes. Turkey has been saying they want to destroy India and we are doing this? This is being stupid. We are better off spending more money to ideologically more suitable country than with a country which wishes destruction on us.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by yensoy »

Leverage. This is what is needed. Turkey is going through some tough economic times, and they can be made to see things our way if we have a means of influencing them.

If we only work with ideologically compatible countries, we have to eliminate Russia from that list too. As of today pretty much we have nobody other than France and Israel. Tomorrow that can change.
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