Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

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Rakesh
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Navy tightens its watch over ships transiting the Indian Ocean Region
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2023/02/indi ... -over.html
23 Feb 2023
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by ramana »

Why?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote: One can only hope that the Indian Navy does not create an unobtanium RFI for a new generation* torpedo which will take another 10 years to arrive!

*Something that moves at hypersonic speeds under the water. Supersonic might be slow for our Admirals.
Not sure how we can blame the Admirals for this fiasco. This whole situation resulted from Finmeccanica being blacklisted for corruption. And since being bereft of common sense is the primary qualification for working in the MoD, they first put the tender on hold instead of procuring something else and then canceled it. There was a new tender in 2019 IIRC. No idea what happened to that but I'm pretty sure the IN hasn't blocked it. They'd be satisfied with anything right now. No, this one is on the baboos and their boss.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

nachiket wrote:Not sure how we can blame the Admirals for this fiasco. This whole situation resulted from Finmeccanica being blacklisted for corruption. And since being bereft of common sense is the primary qualification for working in the MoD, they first put the tender on hold instead of procuring something else and then canceled it. There was a new tender in 2019 IIRC. No idea what happened to that but I'm pretty sure the IN hasn't blocked it. They'd be satisfied with anything right now. No, this one is on the baboos and their boss.
The first Kalvari Class was commissioned in Dec 2017. Since the Black Shark torpedo was not available back then (due to being blacklisted), Naval HQ should have moved to the DM2A4 from Atlas Elektronik or the F-21 from Naval Group of France. Yes, it would have been an added cost...but I highly doubt it would cost more than the monetary value of Project 75I, which the Indian Navy is insistent upon.

How wise is it to operate 80s era torpedoes on a modern boat? It was reported in the media that the MoD lifted the ban in Nov 2021 ---> ( https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 561597.cms ). The Black Shark torpedo is no longer taboo. Nothing has moved in 15 months.

While MoD takes a share of the blame, what has the Navy done to push for the acquisition? The only thing one reads is unobtanium & prestige projects (IAC-2, Project 75I, 26 MRCBF, etc). But the basic amenities are not being procured. This is not a luxury buy for the submarine, but an operational necessity. The DM2A4 (used by the Pak Navy's three Agosta 90B boats) has a range of 50 km. The Black Shark has the same range. In 2013, the Navy upgraded the SUT-65 with the assistance of Atlas Elektronik, the same firm that makes the DM2A4.

Keeping my fingers crossed that none of those aging torpedoes explode inside the Kalvari Class, like it did aboard INS Sindhurakshak on 14 Aug 2013. The Navy is already woefully short on submarines. In 2018, it was reported that the DM2A4 was to be acquired. Obviously that did not happen.

India likely to go for govt-to-govt German deal for torpedos
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 958741.cms
14 July 2018
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote: The first Kalvari Class was commissioned in Dec 2017. Since the Black Shark torpedo was not available back then (due to being blacklisted), Naval HQ should have moved to the DM2A4 from Atlas Elektronik or the F-21 from Naval Group of France. Yes, it would have been an added cost...but I highly doubt it would cost more than the monetary value of Project 75I, which the Indian Navy is insistent upon.
Naval HQ has no authority to order the MoD to buy a different system especially when the L1 bidder is blacklisted for corruption. It was the MoD which put that tender on hold and then canceled it. The Navy did not create our onerous procurement mechanism where the process is king and the only thing that matters is the appearance of propriety not whether the acquisition is actually successful.
How wise is it to operate 80s era torpedoes on a modern boat? It was reported in the media that the MoD lifted the ban in Nov 2021 ---> ( https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 561597.cms ). The Black Shark torpedo is no longer taboo. Nothing has moved in 15 months.

While MoD takes a share of the blame, what has the Navy done to push for the acquisition? The only thing one reads is unobtanium & prestige projects (IAC-2, Project 75I, 26 MRCBF, etc). But the basic amenities are not being procured.
There was a new tender in 2019: https://swarajyamag.com/insta/boost-to- ... -torpedoes

What happened to it? I can't find any further information about it. MoD does not issue a tender without the IN pushing for it. But they are responsible for actually following through with the acquisition process. Not surprisingly they seem to be sleeping on the job.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

nachiket wrote:Naval HQ has no authority to order the MoD to buy a different system especially when the L1 bidder is blacklisted for corruption. It was the MoD which put that tender on hold and then canceled it. The Navy did not create our onerous procurement mechanism where the process is king and the only thing that matters is the appearance of propriety not whether the acquisition is actually successful.
What was the Navy doing till 2019, when a new tender was issued? When Finmeccanica was black listed in 2016, what was the solution to acquire another torpedo? It took the Navy three whole years to figure out that the Black Shark torpedo may not come after all and perhaps it might be a good idea to write up a RFI for another torpedo? Where was the urgency from the Navy? When Finmeccanica was black listed in 2016, the Navy should have had a back up plan ready.

The MoD is certainly sleeping at the wheel, but at every Navy Day press conference...the only thing that the Naval Chief talks about is IAC-2, Project 75I, MRCBF, etc. Both parties are to blame here, not just the MoD - two peas in a pod. To date, I have yet to see any Navy Chief since Finmeccanica was black listed in 2016, to talk about the urgency for a torpedo for the Scorpene Class boats. But they got time to talk about larger aircraft carriers, phoren naval fighters and next generation submarines. When additional Scorpene Class boats were offered, it was Admiral Robin Dhowan who insisted that the Navy must have a new generation submarine and his successors never strayed away from that utopia.

Admiral Karambir Singh believed the navy could afford it all (a 65,000 ton aircraft carrier + 57 MRCBF aircraft + six nuclear powered boats + six conventionally powered SSKs), until the late General Bipin Rawat throw cold water on that idea and rightfully so. They are living in la-la land. It is 15 months since the black listing of Finmeccanica has been lifted. Still waiting for the Black Shark or whatever other torpedo can be acquired. But we will continue with this tamasha.
nachiket wrote:There was a new tender in 2019: https://swarajyamag.com/insta/boost-to- ... -torpedoes

What happened to it? I can't find any further information about it. MoD does not issue a tender without the IN pushing for it. But they are responsible for actually following through with the acquisition process. Not surprisingly they seem to be sleeping on the job.
Interestingly wiki chacha is reporting that the DM2A4 is in service with the Indian Navy :)
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by nachiket »

I'm not sure what it is you expected the Navy to do exactly. They have no capacity to buy the torpedoes on their own. They have to go through the MoD's process. The cancellation of the deal itself was a typically stupid move considering the bribery allegations were against Agusta-Westland (VVIP chopper deal) which was a Finmeccanica subsidiary but had nothing to do with the BlackShark torpedoes.

And bear in mind that changing the selected torpedo will involve modifications to the submarine FCS for firing the new ones.

Now this is from 2016

https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/st ... 2016-05-31
GRIEVOUS BLOWBACKS

The MoD's options to replace the Black Shark have narrowed down to two - government to government purchases of Germany's 'SeaHake' or France's 'F-21' future heavyweight torpedo. The most optimistic assessments within the Navy say it will take between two and three years for new torpedoes to be acquired and several hundred crores of rupees to modify the submarines to fire them. Grievous blowbacks from a kickback scandal.
So looks like the Navy was open to a govt.to govt. deal for alternative toprpedoes but the MoD must have insisted on a new tender process (surprise surprise!). And on top of that they took 3 years to release a new tender have sat on it for over 3 years since. Absolutely pathetic.

As for the Navy chief talking about procurements in press conferences, sure that is something they could do but I wouldn't blame them for that. That's like blaming the robbery victim for not shouting louder for help.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

The link you posted states that the Navy knew - in 2016 - that acquiring new torpedoes would take 2 to 3 years and hundreds of crores of rupees*. In 2023, there is still no light at the end of the tunnel. What was the navy doing from 2016 (the year of the Finmeccanica blacklist) till 2019 (when the new RFI was written)? Does it really take three years to write a RFI for 98 torpedoes? If so, then I rest my case. Equally worse is the fact that the MoD has done nothing for the next three years. In the absence of the Black Shark, the Navy was well aware - in 2016! - of their choices. And since the MoD has been sitting on the torpedo file for 3+ years now, the Navy should be escalating the issue?

I am sorry, but the Navy cannot wash her hands off with the argument that we submitted the RFI to the MoD and now it is for the MoD to take a decision. This is the same Navy that vociferously defended IAC-2 and Project 75I for years to the MoD. Naval HQ knows how to push a case with the MoD when needed. The navy got an interim relief via the aging torpedoes from the HDW 209 fleet and moved on to ego-fulfilling projects to chase after like the IAC-2, Project 75I and the MRCBF. If Naval HQ was as engaged with the MoD over acquiring modern torpedoes, as they did repeatedly with the MoD - over successive Navy Chiefs - for these fanciful capital acquisitions, they would have likely gotten somewhere.

Commissioning submarines without a modern torpedo is akin to sending out a platoon of soldiers into the field with no ammunition.

*Hundreds of crores of rupees should be pocket change for the Navy, because this is the same Navy that had budgeted approx US $13 billion (thousands of crores of rupees) for the acquisition of 57 multi-role carrier borne fighters for their aircraft carriers. I still remember Admiral Sunil Lanba's words, "There are no budgetary shortfalls for the acquisition of 57 MRCBF." Then Naval HQ walked into the MoD office for sanction and got laughed out of that same office.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Nachiket, check this out....

Indian Navy will receive soon first batch of local-made Varunastra anti-submarine torpedo
https://navyrecognition.com/index.php/n ... rpedo.html
January 2020
Indian Army :lol: will receive soon the first local-made anti-submarine torpedo Varunastra. The first batch of Varunastra torpedo will enter in service onboard of Sindhu Class submarines and other warships of the Indian Navy.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Wow this was exactly the news I was looking for, so Varunastra must be serving on the Arihant class also as Alastair minute self defense.

Now we need the version which is shorter and can fit in the HD 209 and scorpene class.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Kersi »

In general, Admiral do not like to talk about submarines.

Thinking optimistically, IN may have already got "something" for the Scorpenes
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Prasad »

We'd sent in questions to the Navy on their future plans and outlook.

Indian Navy Has Been Allotted Adequate Funds For Indigenous R&D And Modernization
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Navy Gets First Missile Cum Ammunition Barge For Better Operational Preparedness
https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... eshow.html
26 Feb 2023
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Duorope/status/1629 ... 94981?s=20 ---> INS Delhi (D61) post upgradation with Brahmos inclined quad launchers.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by ashthor »

BREAKING: Indian Govt approves contract award to L&T for procurement of 3 naval cadet training ships, in a deal worth Rs 3,108.09 crore. Delivery to collapse from 2026.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1630922116836233217
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Vips »

Next step would be trust them to build the Fleet Support Vessels (FSV).
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Italian PM to visit this week; India-Italy talks to focus on heavy weight Torpedoes, Indo-Pacific and more
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 412549.cms
04 March 2023
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Continued from here
Indian Navy's Sindhughosh-class diesel-electric submarine INS Sindhuratna S59 arriving at Le Havre, France this morning.
Credits to @ThingsNavy and @egetulca. Seeing cell phones with the crew, gives me the creeps.

Last edited by MeshaVishwas on 06 Mar 2023 20:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

MeshaVishwas wrote:Seeing cell phones with the crew, gives me the creeps.
Not an operational mission. It is fine.

Great video. Thanks.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

MeshaVishwas wrote:Historic first by the silent service:
This morning an Indian Navy's Sindhughosh-Class (Project 877/Kilo-Class) diesel-electric submarine, INS Sindhukesari (S60), arrived in Jakarta
Credits to Twitter User @Jatosint
https://twitter.com/UTobyM/status/16291 ... 54080?s=20 --->

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Another submarine of the Indian Navy (a Kalvari Class) makes a friendly port call, this time at Oman.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/163 ... 94624?s=20 ---> The Indian Navy’s INS Vela at Port Salalah, Oman.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

ashthor wrote:BREAKING: Indian Govt approves contract award to L&T for procurement of 3 naval cadet training ships, in a deal worth Rs 3,108.09 crore. Delivery to collapse from 2026.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1630922116836233217
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/163 ... 89088?s=20 ---> BREAKING: Indian MoD signs Rs 3100 crore contract with L&T for 3 Cadet Training Ships for the @IndianNavy.

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https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 03362?s=20 --->

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:
MeshaVishwas wrote:Seeing cell phones with the crew, gives me the creeps.
Not an operational mission. It is fine.

Great video. Thanks.
Mesha Saar, this is what should give us the creeps. See the bottom left of the pictures below. Pictures taken on a Chinese smartphone :roll: Pictures are from Ex Varuna 2019 and posted by the official Twitter account of the Indian Navy.

Reportedly they are looking into banning all Chinese smartphones that are in use by armed forces personnel.

https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 92384?s=20 --->

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Submarines Visit Oman, Indonesia

An Indian submarine each made a port call at Salalah, Oman and Jakarta, Indonesia, displaying the nation’s solidarity with both countries and the growing reach of India’s naval power. Submarines making port calls, though not new, is not too common either. Such visits inevitably convey a geopolitical message. With India’s growing relationship with GCC countries, the visit to Oman is a definite signal of the relationship between the two states gathering greater momentum. As far as the visit to Jakarta is concerned, most countries in the region and especially those on the South China Sea rim, have territorial disputes with China. The visit to Jakarta puts on display India’s growing proximate relationship with Indonesia.

Guest: Commodore Anil Jai Singh (Retd). A submariner himself, he commanded the INS Sindhukesari that made the port call at Jakarta. Currently, he is the Vice President, Indian Maritime Foundation. He is also associated with think tanks in India and abroad.

Host: Brigadier SK Chatterji (Retd): Editor. Bharatshakti.in


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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by hgupta »

Rakesh wrote: Pictures taken on a Chinese smartphone :roll: Pictures are from Ex Varuna 2019 and posted by the official Twitter account of the Indian Navy.

Reportedly they are looking into banning all Chinese smartphones that are in use by armed forces personnel.
You know it's funny that all of us wants to ban smartphones made in China because of the potential snooping by Chinese intelligence agencies but no one wants to talk about the big honking pink elephant in the room: US is the largest electronic & intelligence gathering entity in the world. It can easily snoop on any Android or iOS phone. The reason that US is making such a big deal about Chinese smartphones is because US is getting locked out of snooping on Chinese made smartphones.

So what India need to do is ban all foreign made smartphones and insist on only Indian made smartphones with Indian OS to prevent any foreign nation spying on India. This way, we can finally address that big honking pink elephant in the room.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Thanks Adm, recent bhideo of Queen Lizzie (Warship: Tour of Duty) was a tough reminder of just how spectacularly compromised this is.
Hope we at least keep the cell phones off our silent arm.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

@hgupta: Good Point. I fully agree.

@MeshaVishwas: for official visits like the above, a simple point and shoot camera would do the trick? Must photos be taken only on a smartphone?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by uddu »

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/163 ... 73250?s=20 ---> Indian MoD inks awards ₹900 crore contract for normal refit of Kilo Class submarine, INS Sindhukirti at Hindustan Shipyard Limited, Visakhapatnam.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Must watch:
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by chetak »

OT but do take a look at what some of the others are doing

-Belgorod, world’s longest, nuclear powered sub joins #Russian Navy

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by SSridhar »

MeshaVishwas wrote:Must watch: Adm Hari Kumar's Speech at VIF
It is indeed a must-watch and a comprehensive presentation. Thank you for posting MeshaVishwas.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Indian Navy To Seek Green Light For Three New AIP-Equipped Submarines
https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indian- ... submarines
14 March 2023

IN to approach DAC for 3 new AIP-equipped Scorpenes as a follow-on order. AIP by DRDO. While this is welcome news, it makes one wonder

1) Why is wisdom dawning on the IN leadership when the line is about to go idle? And this is not some rocket-science wisdom - this path was known to most of us here, who are nothing more than amateur enthusiasts

2) Even now, why is the order only a paltry 3 subs? Wouldn't it make sense for this order to be for at least 6, to replace the P-75I plan?

The Admiral in the video above apparently said that China has built more warships in the last decade than the IN's entire fleet strength. Yes, of course! They don't have a leadership that behaves like an ostrich with its head in the sand. They induct even rust-buckets & noisy-subs at scale. They have an intuitive understanding of how economies of scale work, how to do indigenization progressively and how to stay grounded when planning each iteration.

We dream about unobtanium, place piecemeal orders, let lines go idle & wonder why we are lagging behind
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

P-75I is still very much on the cards. This additional order of 3 Scorpene boats is a stop gap, till the negotiations over P-75I are complete.

So it will be nine Scorpenes Class boats plus a minimum of six P-75I boats. They should have ordered these earlier, but better late than never.

Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping they order a scaled up version of INS Vikrant for IAC-2.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

How India’s new naval base at Andamans will force Beijing to reassess its strategy
https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... y-8495036/
14 March 2023

By Rear Admiral Raja Menon (retd)
The downstream effect will be seen in the coming years when China begins to treat India as an equal, because again, tactical calculation will make the truth obvious in Beijing.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by sohamn »

hgupta wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Pictures taken on a Chinese smartphone :roll: Pictures are from Ex Varuna 2019 and posted by the official Twitter account of the Indian Navy.

Reportedly they are looking into banning all Chinese smartphones that are in use by armed forces personnel.
You know it's funny that all of us wants to ban smartphones made in China because of the potential snooping by Chinese intelligence agencies but no one wants to talk about the big honking pink elephant in the room: US is the largest electronic & intelligence gathering entity in the world. It can easily snoop on any Android or iOS phone. The reason that US is making such a big deal about Chinese smartphones is because US is getting locked out of snooping on Chinese made smartphones.

So what India need to do is ban all foreign made smartphones and insist on only Indian made smartphones with Indian OS to prevent any foreign nation spying on India. This way, we can finally address that big honking pink elephant in the room.

I don't know if you understand the difference in snooping between US and China. In US, all the hardware manufacturers and phone designers like Apple are completely private and global enterprises. In fact Apple is so serious about security and encryption that there is numerous instances where they have declined to help crack a code even when explicitly requested by FBI in murder investigations. Furthermore, most of the tech companies are practically run by Desi either H1B, OCI, GC etc. I have never heard a single case where the malware / trojan was injected in the chipset or within OS code. So US does snooping by exploiting known and unknown vulnerabilities in OS, or Chips or libraries etc, or they eavesdrop in the meetme points a.k.a Layer 1 of the network. This is why India is comfortable in buying presidential jet from Boeing or letting Modi use a Apple or Pixel smartphone. The way US will weaponize businesses is by banning the business to operate in that country or deny critical services in the enemy country.

However, in China every chip and phone manufacturer by law is required to cooperate and work with the CCP. Furthermore, many of such companies are either state owned or the CCP state has a high level of share ownership e.g. Bytedance. It is highly likely CCP is using these companies to gather and track every movement in a covert manner, like using a CnC mothership using otherwise standard harmless protocols like DNS or phones making http connections for firmware updates, websocket connects or even hiding data in things like media files to exfill critical data. Some of them are very hard to track. Using Chinese phones in our defence establishment is a real threat and I am shocked to see that Government is still allowing it. By law - no central govt employee / armed forces should be allowed to own a phone that is not made in India.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:How India’s new naval base at Andamans will force Beijing to reassess its strategy
https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... y-8495036/
14 March 2023

By Rear Admiral Raja Menon (retd)
The downstream effect will be seen in the coming years when China begins to treat India as an equal, because again, tactical calculation will make the truth obvious in Beijing.
https://twitter.com/MinhazMerchant/stat ... 79328?s=20 ---> India is quietly building a naval base in the Great Nicobar Island overlooking the Mallaca Straits & 90 miles from the “tip of Indonesia”, writes Rear Admiral Raja Menon (retd). This could transform the balance of power in the arc from South China Sea to the Indian Ocean. Must read.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

Rakesh wrote:P-75I is still very much on the cards. This additional order of 3 Scorpene boats is a stop gap, till the negotiations over P-75I are complete.

So it will be nine Scorpenes Class boats plus a minimum of six P-75I boats. They should have ordered these earlier, but better late than never.

Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping they order a scaled up version of INS Vikrant for IAC-2.
I just wish they ordered 6 or even 9 of the follow-on Scorpenes with DRDO AIP. This will take a decade to deliver. In parallel, start a clean-sheet SSK design and build it indigenously. By the time the production run of Scorpenes get done, our first SSK sub can hit the water. The "I" in P-75I can mean Indigenous.

With Scorpene building, SSN and SSBN experiences + AIP knowledge, we have all the systems in place to go for this. Enough of this P-75I tamasha!
SSridhar
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by SSridhar »

sohamn wrote:I don't know if you understand the difference in snooping between US and China. <snip> . . .
Very correct description.
Manish_P
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Manish_P »

sohamn wrote: ...
I don't know if you understand the difference in snooping between US and China. In US, all the hardware manufacturers and phone designers like Apple are completely private and global enterprises. In fact Apple is so serious about security and encryption that there is numerous instances where they have declined to help crack a code even when explicitly requested by FBI in murder investigations.....
There is a difference in the FBI approaching a tech company for a murder investigation and the NSA/CIA asking you very persuasively to co-operate on matters on national security.

W.r.t Indians running tech companies it means jack even if they are owners... in fact they might well be more vulnerable than the US born true-blue white Americans.
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