Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

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Kersi D
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Kersi D »

Isn't it time we have 1 or 2 or.... more more shipyards for making naval vessels upto 7000-8000 MT ?
L&T and Goa Shipyard could be upgraded to meet the requirements for larger vessels.
Maybe a couple of other shipyards for smaller vessels.

Can Garden Reach be expanded to cater to extended ship building activities ? But I am apprehensive about the current political situation in Bengal
What about the good old Hindustan Shipyard ?
Pipavav ?

Just airing my thoughts
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Kersi D wrote:Isn't it time we have 1 or 2 or.... more more shipyards for making naval vessels upto 7000-8000 MT ?
L&T and Goa Shipyard could be upgraded to meet the requirements for larger vessels.
Maybe a couple of other shipyards for smaller vessels.

Can Garden Reach be expanded to cater to extended ship building activities ? But I am apprehensive about the current political situation in Bengal
What about the good old Hindustan Shipyard ?
Pipavav ?

Just airing my thoughts
Our current numbers don't justify the additional yard capacity.

Now, if we planned on having a fleet of 8 full sized carriers and 60 destroyers and an equal numbers of frigates with a 100 submarines by 2050.

We will need to have the additional yard capacity to get such fleet.
nam
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by nam »

From teetar

https://twitter.com/lca_tejas_/status/1 ... 4847334403


Looks like the array has been installed on INS Anvesh, as of Feb 22.

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KSingh
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by KSingh »

Kersi D wrote:Isn't it time we have 1 or 2 or.... more more shipyards for making naval vessels upto 7000-8000 MT ?
L&T and Goa Shipyard could be upgraded to meet the requirements for larger vessels.
Maybe a couple of other shipyards for smaller vessels.

Can Garden Reach be expanded to cater to extended ship building activities ? But I am apprehensive about the current political situation in Bengal
What about the good old Hindustan Shipyard ?
Pipavav ?

Just airing my thoughts
Extra capacity to go idle? Who will pick up the bill for this?

Already CSL’s carrier production is going off tap this year, same with MDL’s sub lines. After 2025-7 the same will happen with GRSE and MDL’s large ship production (P-15B and P-17As).


There’s no scope for more capacity when existing capacity is under-utilised and on the brink of going vacant.


We can fantasise about P-15C and P-17B all day but they don’t exist nor are they even ordered. Even if orders were given for them this year the first boats of those classes wouldn’t enter service for 5 years from today.

IN and GoI have resigned the latter half of this decade to be another dip in production and deliveries with maybe only some OPVs in the yards at that point. No large vessels to speak of will be
Rakesh
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Kersi D wrote:What are the names of the seven P-17s ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilgiri-c ... _the_class
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by mody »

The only capacity that might come online is Pipavav/Reliance, if chhota bhais defunct company is taken over by someone else. The P15 design has reached its end and there will not be any further P15s to be produced. A new destroyer design might come up in the future and will feature different propulsion as compared to the P15s.
The P17A design might see further numbers with higher levels if indigenization, maybe a P17B. For for now, that's only speculation.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone

It seems that the Burmese navy has lost a Shenya light weight torpedo torpedo.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by SidSoma »

We are using MF Star on so many of our ships. Any reason we have not been able to fit it onto Vikrant yet ?
kit
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by kit »

Pratyush wrote:
Kersi D wrote:Isn't it time we have 1 or 2 or.... more more shipyards for making naval vessels upto 7000-8000 MT ?
L&T and Goa Shipyard could be upgraded to meet the requirements for larger vessels.
Maybe a couple of other shipyards for smaller vessels.

Can Garden Reach be expanded to cater to extended ship building activities ? But I am apprehensive about the current political situation in Bengal
What about the good old Hindustan Shipyard ?
Pipavav ?

Just airing my thoughts
Our current numbers don't justify the additional yard capacity.

Now, if we planned on having a fleet of 8 full sized carriers and 60 destroyers and an equal numbers of frigates with a 100 submarines by 2050.

We will need to have the additional yard capacity to get such fleet.

I do not think any shipyard is going to stay idle. Their order books were full for the next 5 years, there is not much in the open media on what class and what type ,
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

SidSoma wrote:We are using MF Star on so many of our ships. Any reason we have not been able to fit it onto Vikrant yet ?
MF STAR is FCR radar for Barak-8, I am guessing the radar was delayed (I know order was placed only couple years ago) or construction delays and timeline for trials meant forced them to push it back for trials to happen first. The other theory is they might have decided to fit VL-SRSAM instead of Barak-8 and as a result not to fit MF STAR and waiting on the DRDO alternative.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... FATB-bTLRA ---> Indian Navy's INS Sindhudhvaj decommissioned after serving 35 years. Had many firsts to her credit including operationalization of indigenized sonar USHUS, indigenized satellite communication systems (Rukmani & MSS), Inertial Navigation System + Indigenized Torpedo Fire Control System.

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arvin
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by arvin »

INS Sindhudhvaj drops anchor at retirement port; only 7 Kilos still in service
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2022/07/ins- ... or-at.html
18 July 2022
The Sindhudhvaj successfully undertook mating of the boat with the deep submergence rescue vessel and was the only submarine to be awarded a trophy for innovation by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
With this Kilo Submarine fleet now stands at seven. Article states another submarine in fleet is earmarked to DRDO for testing AIP. Maybe Li-ion will also be tested on the same sub.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Stealth frigate INS Dunagiri set for launch into Hooghly
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2022/07/stea ... t-for.html
15 July 2022
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by gpurewal »

Rakesh wrote:Stealth frigate INS Dunagiri set for launch into Hooghly
https://www.ajaishukla.com/2022/07/stea ... t-for.html
15 July 2022
Rakesh,

It looks like the website is flagged as a serious risk. My corporate firewall blocked it, and the URL is being flagged as malicious.

https://www.fortiguard.com/webfilter?q= ... shukla.com
Rakesh
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

gpurewal wrote:Rakesh,

It looks like the website is flagged as a serious risk. My corporate firewall blocked it, and the URL is being flagged as malicious.

https://www.fortiguard.com/webfilter?q= ... shukla.com
Sirjee, you perfectly described Ajai Shukla :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by fanne »

Do we know if Sindhudhvaj will be the sub that will try out various DRDO tech's - AIP, LI batteries, maybe new drives, etc?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

fanne wrote:Do we know if Sindhudhvaj will be the sub that will try out various DRDO tech's - AIP, LI batteries, maybe new drives, etc?
That appears to be the plan.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Looks like Himgiri was spotted during Dunagri’s launch seems to be on schedule, still haven’t seen any pics of Nilgiri which should be in sea trails in order to meet 2022 commissioning timeline?

https://twitter.com/defencematrix1/stat ... edPI1sSKSg

I do think Shivalik have the cleaner design IMO.
basant
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by basant »

KSingh, I replied to NUH in the other thread as it may be OT here.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by KSingh »

John wrote:Looks like Himgiri was spotted during Dunagri’s launch seems to be on schedule, still haven’t seen any pics of Nilgiri which should be in sea trails in order to meet 2022 commissioning timeline?

https://twitter.com/defencematrix1/stat ... edPI1sSKSg

I do think Shivalik have the cleaner design IMO.
For India those P17s were so damn clean and ahead of their time

The P17As worn MFSTAR and LRSAM are a generation ahead in sensor/weapon combo but somehow the superstructures look a generation behind the P-17s, a real head scratcher. NDB designed both so I don’t really understand how they failed to take the design features foreword but regressed. They must know something we don’t? Maybe too expensive to make the 7 P17As as low RCS as 17s?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by kit »

KSingh wrote:
John wrote:Looks like Himgiri was spotted during Dunagri’s launch seems to be on schedule, still haven’t seen any pics of Nilgiri which should be in sea trails in order to meet 2022 commissioning timeline?

https://twitter.com/defencematrix1/stat ... edPI1sSKSg

I do think Shivalik have the cleaner design IMO.
For India those P17s were so damn clean and ahead of their time

The P17As worn MFSTAR and LRSAM are a generation ahead in sensor/weapon combo but somehow the superstructures look a generation behind the P-17s, a real head scratcher. NDB designed both so I don’t really understand how they failed to take the design features foreword but regressed. They must know something we don’t? Maybe too expensive to make the 7 P17As as low RCS as 17s?
i can think of one example of sensor fusion , where the USN was able to combine all the different radars a ship would need to use., like long range scanning., targeting, weather etc into one sensor array., like wise similar treatment for thermal management as well as doing away with requirement for different silos for SAMs, Anti Sh M etc into a universal launch tube.

the chinese seem to have copied this successfully into their later designs
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Nice to see the OFB RCWS and M2 12.7mm chain gun making its way on to the INS Tarkash!

Image credits to our Rajdoot in Algiers

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John
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

KSingh wrote:
John wrote:Looks like Himgiri was spotted during Dunagri’s launch seems to be on schedule, still haven’t seen any pics of Nilgiri which should be in sea trails in order to meet 2022 commissioning timeline?

https://twitter.com/defencematrix1/stat ... edPI1sSKSg

I do think Shivalik have the cleaner design IMO.
For India those P17s were so damn clean and ahead of their time

The P17As worn MFSTAR and LRSAM are a generation ahead in sensor/weapon combo but somehow the superstructures look a generation behind the P-17s, a real head scratcher. NDB designed both so I don’t really understand how they failed to take the design features foreword but regressed. They must know something we don’t? Maybe too expensive to make the 7 P17As as low RCS as 17s?
That’s my hypothesis as well P-17 design with its enclosure for RHIB was expensive in terms of implementation and also maintenance. Also perhaps the previous exhausts where found to inadequate and as a result they where enlargened?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by kit »

https://news.usni.org/2022/07/20/indian ... ith-allies

A new next-generation destroyer, sometimes dubbed Project 18, is expected to be much larger and provide a further jump in technology by employing directed energy weapons, high-power sensors, longer-range cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles. Conceptual studies are still underway, but there will be more Indian-built content in the newer classes than in prior ones.

“The Indian content has increased with each iteration as foreign systems are substituted with Indian ones,” Samaddar said. “In the Delhis it was 30 percent then Kolkatas 60 percent, the 15B is 90 percent Indian stuff and by P18 it will be 100 percent Indian.”

https://twitter.com/parthu_potluri/stat ... lang=en-GB

[hypothesized ]

The NGD will NOT have a mast-mounted radar like P-15A/B & P-17A have (MFSTAR). Instead it will have a multi-faced APAR that's integrated into the bridgework/superstructure.

In all likelihood P-17A will be the last IN combatant class to use MFSTAR. Going forward, we are likely to switch to the DRDO-developed Long Range Multi-Function Radar (LRMFR) that's currently being tested on INS Anvesh tech demo ship.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by bala »

kit wrote: “The Indian content has increased with each iteration as foreign systems are substituted with Indian ones,” Samaddar said. “In the Delhis it was 30 percent then Kolkatas 60 percent, the 15B is 90 percent Indian stuff and by P18 it will be 100 percent Indian.”
The Biggest thing for IN is the imported GE marine engine. India needs to put more resources/money to get the engine part right. Autonomy in this area is a must if India is to be considered a major power. We have to evolve from a good enough to better and better. This is across the board issue. In aircrafts we lag behind on the engine front. In space, considering the Nambi Narayanan episode we lag behind in heavy lift capability, though ISRO is addressing to some extent.
V_Raman
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by V_Raman »

The engine complex for a ship is probably the hardest thing to indigenize. will take us 30 more years... if not more....

we are better off acquiring a foreign company if that is possible...
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

IMO I highly doubt we will see supersized P-18s anytime before 2035 more likely next evolution IMO will be P-15 based DDG fitted with MT-30 which itself will be complex engineering feat.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by jaysimha »


NIIO - SWAVLAMBAN SEMINAR (18 TO 19 JUL 22) AT DR B R AMBEDKAR INTERNATIONAL CENTRE
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

John wrote:IMO I highly doubt we will see supersized P-18s anytime before 2035 more likely next evolution IMO will be P-15 based DDG fitted with MT-30 which itself will be complex engineering feat.
That should rightly be called a separate project. The Indian Navy is in the habit of completely redesigning the ship and and just adding a suffix to the project designation.

The mess in the project 75I is another example. If project 75 is Scorpean then logically the P75I should be improved Scorpean or an Indigenised Scorpean.

But no, the Indian Navy is going through the whole circus of asking for RFI and then RFQ.

Jut change the project designation and a lot of clarity comes about exactly what is it we are taking about.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... JZAuXLILPw ---> Navy’s proposal to procure upgraded 1,250 kW capacity Marine Gas Turbine Generator for power generation application onboard Kolkata Class of ships was also approved. Also approved - 14 Fast Patrol Vessels (FPVs) for Indian Coast Guard under Buy (Indian-IDDM) with 60% indigenous content.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... JZAuXLILPw ---> Navy’s proposal to procure upgraded 1,250 kW capacity Marine Gas Turbine Generator for power generation application onboard Kolkata Class of ships was also approved. Also approved - 14 Fast Patrol Vessels (FPVs) for Indian Coast Guard under Buy (Indian-IDDM) with 60% indigenous content.
https://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/15 ... JZAuXLILPw ---> The IN-GTRE project seems to have struck gold with a KMGT based Gas Turbine Generator (GTG) with a rated output of 1.2 MW. A spinoff of the KMGT project, the IN has a projected requirement for 42 GTGs for generating electrical power onboard warships.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by bala »

Cochin Shipyard delivers indigenously built aircraft carrier ‘Vikrant’ to Indian Navy
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 693780.ece
July 28, 2022
Cmde Vidhyadhar Harke, Commanding Officer Designate Vikrant, takes the delivery of the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier ‘Vikrant’ from the Cochin Shipyard Limited.

The acceptance form was signed between Madhu S. Nair, Chairman and Managing Director, CSL and the Commanding Officer (Designate) of the vessel Commodore Vidhyadhar Harke, VSM. The vessel is scheduled to be commissioned and inducted into the services in August. The ship was launched on August 12, 2013, and with this, India joined the elite club of nations capable of indigenously designing and constructing an aircraft carrier. Considering its complexity and developmental nature, the project was executed under three different phases and the last phase of contract was signed in Oct 2019.
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arvin
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by arvin »

Wow, Historic day for Navy to get possession of Aircraft carrier.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by ramana »

Not Navy related but has Naval application.
Prasar Bharati: https://newsonair.com/2021/11/13/missio ... n-mission/
India’s first manned ocean mission ‘Samudrayaan’ to send humans in 6-km ocean depth

India is making considerable efforts to unveil the mysteries tucked in the deep sea waters. Under the mega ocean mission ‘Samudrayaan’, the nation aims to send a team of experts into the deep sea to carry out various deep underwater studies.

India’s first manned ocean mission was launched by the Ministry of Earth Sciences (MoES). As part of the mission, a self propelled manned submersible viz ‘MATSYA 6000’ is being developed to carry 3 human beings to a water depth of 6,000 meters in the ocean with a suite of scientific sensors and tools for deep ocean exploration.

“The manned submersible will allow scientific personnel to observe and understand unexplored deep sea areas by direct interventions. Further, it will enhance the capability for deep sea man rated vehicle development,” Minister of State (I/C) for M/o Earth Sciences and M/o Science & Technology, Dr. Jitendra Singh said in a written reply in Rajya Sabha.

National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT), an autonomous institute under MoES, has developed 6,000 m depth rated Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV) and various other underwater instruments, the written reply further stated.

Other state-of-art instruments for underwater exploration by NIOT include Autonomous Coring System (ACS), Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV) and Deep Sea Mining System (DSM) for the exploration of deep sea.

With Mission ‘Samudrayaan’, India Joined Elite Group

With the launch of the unique ocean mission ‘Samudrayaan’ in October 2021, India joined the elite club of nations such as the USA, Russia, Japan, France, and China to have niche technology and vehicles to carry out subsea activities.

While launching the sea exploration initiative, Union Minister of State Dr Jitendra Singh mentioned, “This niche technology shall facilitate Ministry of Earth Sciences, MoES in carrying out deep ocean exploration of the non-living resources such as polymetallic manganese nodules, gas hydrates, hydro-thermal sulphides, and cobalt crusts, located at a depth between 1000 and 5500 meters.”

The preliminary design of the manned submersible ‘MATSYA 6000’ is completed and realization of the vehicle has been started along with various organizations including ISRO, IITM, and DRDO roped-in to support the initiative, the Union Minister added.

Deciphering ‘MATSYA 6000’: The state-of-art submersible vehicle

Developed indigenously, MATSYA 6000 is a manned submersible vehicle. It will facilitate the Ministry of Earth Sciences (MoES) in conducting deep ocean exploration.

The sea trials of 500 meter rated shallow water version of the maritime vehicle are expected to take place in the last quarter of 2022 and the submersible will be ready for trials by the second quarter of 2024.

Further, work on advancing technologies like metallurgy, energy storage, underwater navigation, and manufacturing facilities have been underway for developing more efficient, reliable, and safe manned submersibles.

Why is underway vehicle technology vital?

The underwater vehicles are essential for carrying out subsea activities such as high-resolution bathymetry, biodiversity assessment, geoscientific observation, search activities, salvage operation, and engineering support. With improved maneuvering and excellent vision systems, the unmanned underwater vehicles become the loyal companion for researchers to get a feel of direct physical presence and to get better intervention capability.

With the advancing subsea technologies, the recent Fendouzhe manned submersible developed by China in 2020 has touched ~11000m water depths, the deepest to date.

The Mega Deep Ocean Mission

The Indian government had approved the Deep Ocean Mission (DOM) to be implemented under the aegis of the Ministry of Earth Sciences at a total budget of Rs. 4,077 Crore for a period of 5 years.

The estimated cost for the first phase for the 3 years (2021-2024) would be Rs.2823.4 crore. Deep Ocean Mission will be a mission mode project to support the Blue Economy Initiatives of the Government of India.

With an emphasis on the development of deep-sea technology, the Deep Ocean Mission consists of development of manned Submersible rated for 6,000 metre water depth along with technologies for deep-sea mining, exploration of deep-sea mineral resources, and marine biodiversity.

Uncovering the Uncovered

Oceans, which cover 70 percent of the globe, remain a key part of our life. About 95 percent of the Deep Ocean remains unexplored. For India, with its three sides surrounded by the oceans and around 30 percent of the nation’s population living in coastal areas and coastal regions play a major economic factor. It supports fisheries and aquaculture, tourism, livelihoods, and blue trade.

For India, there lies a unique maritime position, a 7517 km long coastline, which is home to nine coastal states and 1,382 islands. The Government of India’s vision of ‘New India’ highlights the Blue Economy as one of the ten core dimensions of growth.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

CSL New Drydock Will Be Ready This Year, Can Manufacture 70,000T Aircraft Carrier For The Navy
https://idrw.org/csl-new-dry-dock-will- ... -the-navy/
01 Aug 2022
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Russia’s new maritime doctrine puts India at centre stage of its Indian Ocean Region strategy
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 306596.cms
02 Aug 2022
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... Qq9mhDD9EA ---> Indian Navy upgrades Naval Design directorate. Now renamed as Warship Design Bureau for catering to New Generation warships designs and warfighting capabilities.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:Some good news on DRDO's AIP program...

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 02VhKjedIw ---> Indian Navy's Scorpene class submarine, INS Kalvari to be fitted with DRDO AIP in 2025.

Indian subs will be fitted with AIP made in India: DRDO Chief
https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... f/2578408/
30 June 2022
Apologies for the small picture size, but that is what came in the tweet. The AIP plug is in white in the model below...

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/155 ... Qq9mhDD9EA ---> In case you were still wondering where DRDO's Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) plug will figure on the Scorpene hull.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... Qq9mhDD9EA ---> Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited has started the prototyping works for a Midget submarine, will be an advanced smaller sized submarine which can be used for applications such as Special Ops, Tourism, Research and Coastal monitoring.
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