Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

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Vicky
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Vicky »

Serving commander rank IN officer arrested for leaking sub info. Two retired officers too.
In a significant development, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has arrested a serving Indian Navy officer along with two retired ones in connection with the leakage of confidential information related to the modernisation of a Kilo-class submarine going.
https://english.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/ ... -1.6121773
VinodTK
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by VinodTK »

^^^^
CBI arrests Navy commander, 2 retired officers in information leak case
NEW DELHI: A serving naval officer and two retired ones, along with two “private persons”, have been arrested by the CBI in connection with the alleged leaking of confidential information related to the modernization of the Kilo-class conventional submarines.
The Navy is also conducting an internal inquiry, headed by a Vice Admiral, into the case to probe the information-leak and suggest measures to prevent such incidents in the future.
There could be some more arrests in the case, and it is unclear as yet if foreign intelligence agencies were involved in the information leak.

The serving officer of the rank of a Commander (equivalent to Lt-Colonel in the Army) was arrested by the CBI from the Western Naval Command in Mumbai last month. Among the four other accused, one retired as a Commodore and another as a Commander. All five are now in judicial custody.

“Acting on information provided by intelligence agencies, the serving officer was arrested for allegedly passing on information connected to the modernization refit of the Russian-origin Kilo or Sindhughosh-class submarines to the other accused, who apparently work for some defence companies, in lieu of bribes,” said a source.

The CBI has conducted searches in 19 places, including Delhi, Noida, Mumbai and Hyderabad, and has seized some computers and other evidence. The investigative agency has also questioned a number of serving officers, who were in touch with the accused.

The Navy, in a statement on Tuesday, said, “The alleged information leak of administrative and commercial nature with some unauthorised personnel has come to light. It is being investigated by appropriate government agency, with complete support from the Navy.”

The Navy has gone in for a modernization upgrade of four of its eight old Sindhughosh-class diesel-electric submarines, with each costing around Rs 1,400 crore, in Russia as well as India.
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If found guilty, the involved people and their families should be given Stalin's favorite punishment (to serve as an example)
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 20201?s=20 ---> Anti-torpedo torpedo (ATT)

Basically a hard-kill anti torpedo countermeasure system that uses torpedoes to seek and destroy incoming guided torpedoes.

Image

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 63271?s=20 ---> AFAIK the sensor on the nose section of anti-torpedo torpedo (ATT) is a Acoustic Vector Sensor.

Image
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Tushil and Tamala are the names of the first two ships and will be built in Russia.

The next two vessels will be built at Goa SY and have yet to be named.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 53280?s=20 ---> NEWS: The 7th Talwar Class Frigate of the Indian Navy (Project 1135.6) - to be called Tushil - launched by Mrs Datta Vidya Varma at Yantar Shipyard, Kaliningrad. India ordered two additional Krivak Class stealth frigates from Russia, scheduled to be delivered by mid 2023.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/145 ... 64481?s=20 ---> The Indian Navy's next advanced Talwar Class frigate named TUSHIL, a Sanskrit word meaning protector shield. Launch ceremony at the Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad, Russia today.

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Manish_Sharma
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Is this true?
Total cost for FOUR- 4000ton Talwar class

2 from Russia- 8,000 Cr

ToT=$500mn - 3,500 Cr

Engines for 2- 1,000 Cr

GSL cost to make 2- 13,000 Cr

Total = 25,500 Cr

Cost of indigenous 7000ton Shivalik class -

2,600 Cr each.

This deal only to keep Russia happy. https://t.co/T5Pbw4kpwo
https://twitter.com/YusufDFI/status/106 ... K5u0g&s=19
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by jamwal »

You should ask for source from person who made the claim.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

No it's not true.

But the P17A is a better ship any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Because it has MFSTAR and LRSAM.

The Russian imports don't. Nor will they be fitted with those during the MLU. The rationale for the purchase makes little sense. In fact the navy would have been better served with 4 additional base model Shivalik or with 4 additional improved Shivalik.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Manish_Sharma wrote:Is this true?
Yes but Hard to compare crore figures from a decade ago due to inflation and depreciation price would of course be lot more. I made a breakdown before Shivalik build now will cost around 5,250 crores or 750 mill USD which is about the same as Talwar if we decide to fit SR SAM and Lanza radar. I don’t even think Talwar blk 3 will have VL Shtil as models from GSL show it still having shtil-1 (hope they were just lazy but I doubt it).

I mentioned how P-17 are better option but the deal IMO is more to placate Putin as Russia had lost few deals.

For navy something is better than nothing and also P-17 relying on GE it would be good to have back up option with admin change.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by titash »

Pratyush wrote:No it's not true.

But the P17A is a better ship any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Because it has MFSTAR and LRSAM.

The Russian imports don't. Nor will they be fitted with those during the MLU. The rationale for the purchase makes little sense. In fact the navy would have been better served with 4 additional base model Shivalik or with 4 additional improved Shivalik.
That’s not entirely true Pratyush-ji,

The IAF will never let it’s fighter fleet be 100% dependent on US whims and fancies, and will always keep MiG-29s, Jaguars, Mirages, Rafales, and Su-30s on hand

The Navy also will keep a substantial non-US fleet on hand. The LM 2500 gas turbines can be sanctioned and Israeli sensor / weapons support can be turned off on a dime under US pressure

The Talwars, Delhis, Kolkatas, Vishakapatnams are Russian/Ukrainian for a reason, and as the Kashins roll off, more Talwars will keep coming in
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

^^^
If that is the concept of operations. Then it is the most inefficient way to defend the nation. We might just pick up one supplier and stick to it.

Don't build a circus of systems that are expected to be useless in times of war. Then what is the point of investment in such systems.

If the expectation is that US will sanction India in times of war then why buy anything from them.

P15 B/C and P 17/A between them will cost over 10 billion dollars. Why is the navy spending so much money if it is expected that the US sanctions will make them junk.

Vikrant is nearly 3 billions. If it's expected to become junk in case of war. Then why is it being built.

Things have to make sense. This doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Pratyush wrote:P15 B/C and P 17/A between them will cost over 10 billion dollars. Why is the navy spending so much money if it is expected that the US sanctions will make them junk.
It is not sanctions Will junk them, I would assume getting parts for LM2500 shouldn’t be too hard it is more of threat that products in pipeline will be delayed if relationship sours (remember something as simple as Obama admin taking over delayed Shivalik a couple months as they wanted to review all exports).
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by titash »

Pratyush wrote:^^^
If that is the concept of operations. Then it is the most inefficient way to defend the nation. We might just pick up one supplier and stick to it.

Don't build a circus of systems that are expected to be useless in times of war. Then what is the point of investment in such systems.

If the expectation is that US will sanction India in times of war then why buy anything from them.

P15 B/C and P 17/A between them will cost over 10 billion dollars. Why is the navy spending so much money if it is expected that the US sanctions will make them junk.

Vikrant is nearly 3 billions. If it's expected to become junk in case of war. Then why is it being built.

Things have to make sense. This doesn't make any sense.
Pratyush-ji,

Things make eminent sense but you have to put yourself in the GoI/MoD/Navy’s shoes

Do we face existential threats from a bunch of Ghazwa-e-Hind fanatics? Yes

Will the Ghazwa-e-Hind fanatics wage war against India at the slightest opportunity? Yes

Do we need weapons & defense equipment to wage above mentioned wars? Yes

Do we make all our weapons & defense equipment in India? No

Will we need to import weapons & defense equipment from foreign manufacturers? Yes

Which foreign manufacturers can sell to India? US, Russia, France, UK. No one else makes the entirety of systems & sub systems

What are the Pros & Cons of US equipment? Top notch quality and performance and reliability but can be sanctioned on a dime if so much as sneeze out of line

What are the Pros & Cons of Russian equipment? Low CAPEX and much greater affordability. Good performance and reliability at the cost of higher OPEX. Sanctions proof since India does not share geopolitical divergence with Russia. Tried & Tested Relationship that one should continue to maintain

What are the Pros & Cons of French equipment? Top notch performance and reliability and sanctions proof…at the cost of significantly higher CAPEX and OPEX. Silver bullet solutions, but Tried & Tested Relationship that one should continue to maintain

So you may ask why one imports from the US? The answer is simple…we have a massive trade surplus that the US will rightfully ask us to balance. The civil aviation & defense industries are big US political players and it makes eminent sense to build relationships with them. That’s why the 100s of Boeing 737 orders and P8I orders. The transports too (C-130s & C-17s & Chinooks). The GE404 is a leap of faith but we are doing that because the Tejas is dead in the water without it. Our domestic fighter industry can develop only with the GE404/GE414 family. The SeaHawks likewise are a leap of faith

But rest assured, for existential war fighting capabilities, it will be either Indigenous or Russian with a French cutting edge. Israeli subsystems are the icing on the cake and are available to us as long as we are geopolitically not in the bad books of the US deep state

It all makes eminent sense
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

INS Vishakhapatnam P15B Destroyer delivered to the Navy.

https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 2399465473



Image

-Ankit
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Pratyush »

titash wrote:

But rest assured, for existential war fighting capabilities, it will be either Indigenous or Russian with a French cutting edge. Israeli subsystems are the icing on the cake and are available to us as long as we are geopolitically not in the bad books of the US deep state

It all makes eminent sense
That is still wasting a significant portion of the capital acquisition budget. If our war fighting is dependent on being in the good books of some nation.

Given the increase in the urban naxal constituency in US. Along with the influence of the Islamist brigades. How long do you think, India will remain in the good books of the US.

Even if only 30 % of the capacity is lost during any war because of the US displeasure. Then it might just be all over. Don't you think.

The navy will be nearly gutted. The ASW capacity and air defence capacity will be reduced by upto 60% nearly overnight. Why exposed ourselves to such a situation knowingly. AFIK, we don't have modern French or Russian air defence capacity for the navy. Or for that matter airborne ASW capacity. The Tu144 are gone, the IL 38 will be gone soon. Ka28 are long in the tooth. Sea kings have a foot in the grave.

In this situation I completely fail to see how any of this makes any sense.

Either the Americans are a reliable supplier or they are not.

If they are reliable then additional Talwar with diminished capacity air defence capacity over the P17A don't make any sense.

If the tasking is only ASW. Even in that circumstance the base model P17 was a preferable choice. As the owner ship of the design gave us the ability to give them the MLU of our choice. As opposed to the over priced crumbs the Russians will throw at us.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

We couldn’t get Aster from Europe as the European partners didn’t want to sell it to us one of the reasons we went with Barak-8 as Israel had faced a similar problem. Then MBDA offered a inferior VL MICA (instead of CAMM) as tech transfer for SR SAM we walked away.

We didn’t pick Israel weapons because they are sanction prove we picked it because it was only option at that time, just like couple decades ago UK was hesitant to sell sea wolf we went with Barak.

Let’s wait and see what final fit for Talwar will be IMO I wouldn’t be surprised if russian ones have Shtil-1 and 2 of them built in GSL have SR-SAM.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

titash wrote:
Pratyush wrote:^^^
If that is the concept of operations. Then it is the most inefficient way to defend the nation. We might just pick up one supplier and stick to it.

Don't build a circus of systems that are expected to be useless in times of war. Then what is the point of investment in such systems.

If the expectation is that US will sanction India in times of war then why buy anything from them.

P15 B/C and P 17/A between them will cost over 10 billion dollars. Why is the navy spending so much money if it is expected that the US sanctions will make them junk.

Vikrant is nearly 3 billions. If it's expected to become junk in case of war. Then why is it being built.

Things have to make sense. This doesn't make any sense.
Pratyush-ji,

Things make eminent sense but you have to put yourself in the GoI/MoD/Navy’s shoes

Do we face existential threats from a bunch of Ghazwa-e-Hind fanatics? Yes

Will the Ghazwa-e-Hind fanatics wage war against India at the slightest opportunity? Yes

Do we need weapons & defense equipment to wage above mentioned wars? Yes

Do we make all our weapons & defense equipment in India? No

Will we need to import weapons & defense equipment from foreign manufacturers? Yes

Which foreign manufacturers can sell to India? US, Russia, France, UK. No one else makes the entirety of systems & sub systems

What are the Pros & Cons of US equipment? Top notch quality and performance and reliability but can be sanctioned on a dime if so much as sneeze out of line

What are the Pros & Cons of Russian equipment? Low CAPEX and much greater affordability. Good performance and reliability at the cost of higher OPEX. Sanctions proof since India does not share geopolitical divergence with Russia. Tried & Tested Relationship that one should continue to maintain

What are the Pros & Cons of French equipment? Top notch performance and reliability and sanctions proof…at the cost of significantly higher CAPEX and OPEX. Silver bullet solutions, but Tried & Tested Relationship that one should continue to maintain

So you may ask why one imports from the US? The answer is simple…we have a massive trade surplus that the US will rightfully ask us to balance. The civil aviation & defense industries are big US political players and it makes eminent sense to build relationships with them. That’s why the 100s of Boeing 737 orders and P8I orders. The transports too (C-130s & C-17s & Chinooks). The GE404 is a leap of faith but we are doing that because the Tejas is dead in the water without it. Our domestic fighter industry can develop only with the GE404/GE414 family. The SeaHawks likewise are a leap of faith

But rest assured, for existential war fighting capabilities, it will be either Indigenous or Russian with a French cutting edge. Israeli subsystems are the icing on the cake and are available to us as long as we are geopolitically not in the bad books of the US deep state

It all makes eminent sense
Until critical components like engines are homegrown, this will continue. We may hate it, but it makes sense. And this reasoning, which you have put forth so well, imho is the reason Tejas orders come in reluctantly.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by titash »

Pratyush wrote: That is still wasting a significant portion of the capital acquisition budget. If our war fighting is dependent on being in the good books of some nation.
You are correct. It is a waste and it is a non-ideal situation. But can You/Me/GoI/MoD/IN do anything about it? No
Pratyush wrote: Given the increase in the urban naxal constituency in US. Along with the influence of the Islamist brigades. How long do you think, India will remain in the good books of the US.
Agreed on the increase in woke-ism/CAIR-ism in the US. But as we have seen with Bhen-Joe's recent actions, there are limits to how much the US deep state will tolerate their antics. The US has a history of supporting slavery, denying civil rights, supporting Middle Eastern dictators, supporting Latin American dictators, invading IndoChina, invading Panama, invading Grenada, invading Iraq, not to mention innumerable coups, physical espionage, cyber espionage, etc. Rest assured if the US deep state's interests are not served by pissing on India, then the wokes/CAIRs can bark all they want but the government will never bite
Pratyush wrote: Even if only 30 % of the capacity is lost during any war because of the US displeasure. Then it might just be all over. Don't you think.

The navy will be nearly gutted. The ASW capacity and air defence capacity will be reduced by upto 60% nearly overnight. Why exposed ourselves to such a situation knowingly. AFIK, we don't have modern French or Russian air defence capacity for the navy. Or for that matter airborne ASW capacity. The Tu144 are gone, the IL 38 will be gone soon. Ka28 are long in the tooth. Sea kings have a foot in the grave.
Undoubtedly. It is a risk. But as I mentioned earlier, from https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-india/:

"The United States seeks an expanded trade relationship with India that is reciprocal and fair. In 2019, overall U.S.-India bilateral trade in goods and services reached $149 billion. U.S. energy exports are an important area of growth in the trade relationship. In 2018 India purchased 48.2 million barrels of U.S. crude oil, a significant increase from 9.6 million in 2017. Last year, Indian students enrolled at U.S. colleges and universities contributed over $8 billion to the U.S. economy. The total number of Indian students in the United States has more than doubled over the last decade, from 81,000 in 2008 to a record high of 202,000 in 2019."

Whether we like it or not, the US is the world's premier economy and is the primary source of India's middle class prosperity & aspirations via service oriented jobs, trickle down effects into all sectors of manufacturing, food & beverages, transportation, etc. India doesn't benefit by the Tatas & Ambanis making all the big bucks for themselves. It benefits by the hundreds of thousands of middle class IT professionals working and earning an aspirational wage and spending capacity. No one in his right mind in India will give this up

The US rightfully wants reciprocal spending. No arguments there. What's the best way for reciprocal trade?
(1) 100s of Boeing 737s for domestic aviation, 777s/787s for international travel, P8Is (which btw are based on the 737 so if the civil 737s can keep flying then the military P8Is will most assuredly keep flying; no one in his right mind in Boeing or its political lobbyists will support civil aviation sanctions on one of the world's fastest growing civil aviation markets)
(2) non-cutting edge i.e. non-existential defence purchases such as military transports that will be used regularly on peacetime duties, exercises, aid to civil authorities, etc.

So all in all, we are in a close embrace of the US and it will grow bigger and bigger and just like China, it will become increasingly risky and disruptive to use sanctions unless the core interests are in direct conflict, which frankly never really happens because India is not an expansionist power and has no oil
Pratyush wrote: In this situation I completely fail to see how any of this makes any sense.

Either the Americans are a reliable supplier or they are not.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but life not black and white. Neither are international relations. There are always opposing viewpoints within the same family, let alone the same corporation, or political establishment. India is not Panama, and as we can see with the S-400 even internal US stakeholders are opposing any sanctions while others are pushing for it
Pratyush wrote: If they are reliable then additional Talwar with diminished capacity air defence capacity over the P17A don't make any sense.

If the tasking is only ASW. Even in that circumstance the base model P17 was a preferable choice. As the owner ship of the design gave us the ability to give them the MLU of our choice. As opposed to the over priced crumbs the Russians will throw at us.
As I said their reliability "depends"

The Talwar is smaller, will have lesser OPEX, and with GSL building them in-house (a very wise decision IMHO)...we are now in a position to maintain and deep-upgrade 10 or more Talwar class frigates in-house because we'll have all the necessary blueprints etc. to do things from scratch. 5 years from now, there'll be VL-SRSAM in service, possibly a navalized Akash-NG, a HUMSA-NG, an ALTAS, the 100mm gun has already been passed over for the 76mm manufactured at BHEL. The Fregats will be replaced over time with domestic radar + ESM. The ships are small, fast, cheap to run, maintainable in-house, long lasting (look at the Kashins which were commissioned before the Godavaris) and will work wonders against the Paxtanis...this will free up the bigger ships to pivot against the Chinese
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

titash wrote: 5 years from now, there'll be VL-SRSAM in service, possibly a navalized Akash-NG, a HUMSA-NG, an ALTAS, the 100mm gun has already been passed over for the 76mm manufactured at BHEL.
Navalized akash ng is unlikely primarily because it wasn’t design for VLS launch sure adding that capability is possibility but definitely take more than 5 years. More likely XR SAM will replace/compliment Barak-8.

Not sure what 100 mm gun you are referring to?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by titash »

John wrote:
titash wrote: 5 years from now, there'll be VL-SRSAM in service, possibly a navalized Akash-NG, a HUMSA-NG, an ALTAS, the 100mm gun has already been passed over for the 76mm manufactured at BHEL.
Navalized akash ng is unlikely primarily because it wasn’t design for VLS launch sure adding that capability is possibility but definitely take more than 5 years. More likely XR SAM will replace/compliment Barak-8.

Not sure what 100 mm gun you are referring to?
John Sir,
The Russian 100 mm A-190 on Talwar/Teg was replaced by the 76mm SRGM from BHEL on the 2 GSL built ships

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

I believe the XR-SAM & associated Multi-Function Radars will be too large and heavy for the Talwar class. More likely the Delhi & Talwar upgrades will involve the Russian Talwar (Admiral Grigorovich class) VLS Shtil setup

The Akash NG is already canisterized, so VLS may not be too difficult, but then again...the Delhi class needs a VLS SAM today and only the VLS Shtil is available so might as well standardize on that

3 Delhi, 3 Shivalik, 6 + 4 Talwar = 16 warships to equip with VLS Shtil starting today...the INS Delhi was already in the dry dock in 2019 if I'm not mistaken. Has she emerged yet?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by nam »

I am not able to understand the whole issue with the rawl thing.

Where are the Indra radars? BEL Laos has a radar from a joint venture with saab. Even that is not used.

Really strange.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

titash wrote:The Russian 100 mm A-190 on Talwar/Teg was replaced by the 76mm SRGM from BHEL on the 2 GSL built ships
Oh ok, misread. Thought you were saying 100 mm guns are replacing OTO SR, yea A-190 are getting replaced it’s a shame thought they hold much promise guess while specs on paper where good they had too many issues.
nam wrote:believe the XR-SAM & associated Multi-Function Radars will be too large and heavy for the Talwar class. More likely the Delhi & Talwar upgrades will involve the Russian Talwar (Admiral Grigorovich class) VLS Shtil setup
I don't know about VL Shtil I haven’t see any order and the GSL models seem to show Shtil-1. I don't know even if Delhi will be getting them or they will just have SRSAM replacing Barak-1 when ready and still retain Shtil-1.
nam wrote:Where are the Indra radars? BEL Laos has a radar from a joint venture with saab. Even that is not used.
Likely wasn’t ready and will be fitted on P-17a first.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Vicky »

Vicky wrote:Serving commander rank IN officer arrested for leaking sub info. Two retired officers too.
In a significant development, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has arrested a serving Indian Navy officer along with two retired ones in connection with the leakage of confidential information related to the modernisation of a Kilo-class submarine going.
https://english.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/ ... -1.6121773
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/2-navy- ... _topscroll

Two people chargesheeted and apparently a vice admiral was involved too.

They were apparently passing info to a Korean company and also channeling through Dubai.

Who could the Korean sub related company be? Will this lead to the Koreans getting kicked out of P75I? They should be kicked out if true and Navy needs to realise indegenisation is the only way. In the submarine saga of the last forty years every one were caught Germans, French and now Koreans.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by KiranM »

John wrote: I don't know about VL Shtil I haven’t see any order and the GSL models seem to show Shtil-1. I don't know even if Delhi will be getting them or they will just have SRSAM replacing Barak-1 when ready and still retain Shtil-1.
Per Wiki Chacha the last two Krivak class being built for India are of the Admiral Grigorovich class which have VLS for 9M317M/ Shtil missiles. The same design must be under build in GSL. Will be retro grade for IN to go back to single arm launcher.
Wish we had gone for Admiral Kornilov as well.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

KiranM wrote:Per Wiki Chacha the last two Krivak class being built for India are of the Admiral Grigorovich class which have VLS for 9M317M/ Shtil missiles. The same design must be under build in GSL. Will be retro grade for IN to go back to single arm launcher.
Yea they are admiral grigorovich but technically not much has changed in the hull so given those vessels were just launched they can technically go back to Shtil-1 it uses the same orekh FCR and Fregat radar. I am optimistic and hope I am wrong but it is weird that there no orders for 9M317M yet and models showed Shtil-1.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Cain Marko wrote: Until critical components like engines are homegrown, this will continue. We may hate it, but it makes sense. And this reasoning, which you have put forth so well, imho is the reason Tejas orders come in reluctantly.
But there is domestic capacity available for marine GT so why are we not utilizing that?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheAvenger82/status ... 04228?s=20 ---> INS Vela, the fourth out of six INS Kalveri class diesel attack submarines, will also be commissioned before the end of this month.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/145 ... 30883?s=20 ---> JUST IN: The Indian MoD today formally scrapped ('foreclosed') earlier plans to acquire 13 Mk45 naval guns. Cost was deemed too high. As earlier reported, the 13 guns will instead be BHEL's Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM).

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Mk 45 Naval Gun

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by kit »

Indian Submarines and Espionage

This topic deserves a whole thread. Right from the inception of INs submarine arm., the capabilities and technology that goes into these has been a subject of both rival and "friendly" foreign powers. From South Africa to Australia, US and China., all have been trying and most often succeeding in this quest. The kilos, upgraded kilos, Scorpenes, HDWs in service with IN all have their capabilities leaked to foreign powers. Is there something wrong in our establishment? Every nation keeps their sub capabilities top secret! looks like India has been at the receiving end for a while now.
Last edited by kit on 05 Nov 2021 05:37, edited 1 time in total.
Vivek K
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Vivek K »

Probably calls for a re-structure of the Navy's access control procedures and key personnel tracking mechanisms. This has happened before and is a grievous injury and a dastardly betrayal punishable by death. I'm sure that the Navy is looking at it carefully but what should guide them - if we do the same things over and over again, why do we expect a different result.

How are personnel able to get vital information so easily? Are there no safeguards? And are the movements of key personnel in charge of vital projects monitored?
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by KiranM »

In the realm of intelligence, only failures are known to outside world, not successes. Perhaps we take the maxim too far. To catch so many fishes counter intel would have been angling for a long time, sometimes with food to bait them to the hook.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Barath »

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... rdo/829654

Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes for Scorpene and Oto Melara 127 mm naval gun for Project 15B etc ought to be incoming soon
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Barath wrote:https://www.timesnownews.com/india/arti ... rdo/829654

Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes for Scorpene and Oto Melara 127 mm naval gun for Project 15B etc ought to be incoming soon
Oto 127 mm is too late for P-15b or even first 4 P-17a even if the deal is signed now (knowing our MOD don’t expected anything in next couple years). Those will be slated for mlu.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Yagnasri »

I think BEL is now making a 127 MM one.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by John »

Yagnasri wrote:I think BEL is now making a 127 MM one.
Source? To my knowledge Only 76mm SR gun are manufactured no contract for 127mm has been signed.
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 59008?s=20 ---> NEWS: The Indian Navy earlier today, 09 Nov 2021, received the fourth submarine of the Project 75 (Scorpene) (Yard 11878- Vela) from the Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd, built under collaboration with Naval Group, France. The submarine is due to be commissioned in the next few months.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 96197?s=20 ---> First of the Project 15B Stealth Guided Missile Destroyer - Visakhapatnam, to be commissioned into the Indian Navy on 21 Nov 2021. The ship was handed over to the Indian Navy by the Mazagon Docks Ltd on 28 Oct 2021.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

Mazagon Dock delivers 4th Scorpene Submarine 'Vela' to Indian Navy
The acceptance papers were signed by retired Vice-Admiral Narayan Prasad who is Chairman and Managing Director of MDL and Rear Admiral K.P. Arvindan, in the presence of top officials of IN and MDL.
The fifth submarine in the series, Vagir, was launched on November 12, 2020 and has commenced her harbour trials and is likely to go for her maiden surface sortie on December 21, while the sixth one is in an advanced stage of outfitting.
-Ankit
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Post by Ankit Desai »

IN should go with three more Scorpenes until P-75I finalize.

My 2 cent and not an emotional outburst.

-Ankit
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