Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

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nachiket
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/Aryan_warlord/statu ... 27395?s=20 ---> The Himalayan Eagle gets new sharper talons. This is but a small part of the kit that should come in as the Super Sukhoi modernization happens. We should see the Su-30MKI fly with an UTTAM variant & the AL-41F-1S TVC engine soon. Also glass cockpit & MAWS.
HVT sir had clearly mentioned on Twitter last year that an engine upgrade for the MKI was not envisaged. This AL-41 upgrade must be some twitter handle/YT channel's wet dream. The other component and weapon upgrades seem to be common sense.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Rakesh »

nachiket wrote:HVT sir had clearly mentioned on Twitter last year that an engine upgrade for the MKI was not envisaged. This AL-41 upgrade must be some twitter handle/YT channel's wet dream. The other component and weapon upgrades seem to be common sense.
Source of Wet Dream ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7101&p=2531726#p2531726
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by ramana »

The AL-41 upgrade scam will be to pay for Russian development costs.
The Uttam radar for SU-30MKI will be much, much better than their power guzzler microwave.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by ramana »

Manish_Sharma wrote:Since we are buying 50 upgraded Su 30MKIs + 21 GrowlerMKIs then why not go for 71 PAK FAs instead?

With more powerful al41 engines and internal weapon bays would it not be better?
Wah, You should be in IAF planning association.

Its not catalog shopping but doing best with what you have.
IAF pulled out of PAK-FA for not following IAF requirements.
Now you want to push the same plane to them?
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by nachiket »

ramana wrote:The AL-41 upgrade scam will be to pay for Russian development costs.
The Uttam radar for SU-30MKI will be much, much better than their power guzzler microwave.
There is no scam. The engine upgrade is some twitter poster's imagination borne out of a similar upgrade made for the Su-30SM2 which has little to do with the IAF. Check Rakesh's link.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by nachiket »

An Indian Air Force Su-30MKI "Indo-Flanker", from No.15 "Flying Lances" squadron, armed with DRDO-BDL Astra Mk.1 Active Radar Homing (ARH) Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVR-AAM).

Photo © Sanjay Simha
Link: https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 0352131072

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ramana
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by ramana »

We don't know what we don't know!
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Growlers of Indian Air Force
https://www.thedefencematrix.in/growler ... -air-force
22 Aug 2021

https://twitter.com/_devildog_rv_/statu ... 68417?s=20 ---> How old were you when you realized that the numbers "518" in SAP-518, the primary ECM pod of the Su-30MKI, actually explains that it can jam hostile systems operating within the 5-18 bandwidth.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

What I would really like to see on the SS upgrade is the 400km Russki anti-AEW AAM. I believe it is already carried by the Su-35.
https://www.aerotime.aero/26073-su-35-f ... sile-video
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 23653?s=20 ---> HAL manufactured RLSU for airborne X-band PESA-PD Radar.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

Next Step a Uttam Series AESA as part of SU-30 Upgrade mated with SFDR
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Thakur_B »

IMHO they should wait for GaN uttam for Su 30 Mki. The platform has enough power on board and less of size and weight restrictions. Will help to refine GaN tech for TEDBF and AMCA.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cain Marko »

Thakur_B wrote:IMHO they should wait for GaN uttam for Su 30 Mki. The platform has enough power on board and less of size and weight restrictions. Will help to refine GaN tech for TEDBF and AMCA.
Last i recall, the original plan for the bars was a more powerful twt, which should've increased it's acquisition performance considerably. The Russians couldn't figure this out until the late part of the last decade and got it operationalized on the irbis. If the iaf can get this done, which I think has been done for the SM, we are looking at very powerful pesa. This should be a cheap and effective way forward for now. Until the GaN Uttam becomes available.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/5thSu/status/148695 ... uz27MxPTVg ---> Super Sukhoi-30. DC-MAWS positioning on Su-30MKI.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Shameek »

Su-30MKi v/s Thunder simulation...

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by vinod »

Shameek wrote:Su-30MKi v/s Thunder simulation...
This is a DCS simulation and a lot depends on the skill of the player. Sidewinder and longshot know their stuff very well. Also, it depends on how developed the DCS mod is. JF17 has been around for some time. There are simulations by terrorists babies showing off how great a thunder is.. :rotfl:

The main thing I could glean from DCS is the capabilities and how it could be used. Very informative!
Last edited by Rakesh on 02 Feb 2022 05:23, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not re-quote videos when replying. Post Edited.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/5thSu/status/148695 ... uz27MxPTVg ---> Super Sukhoi-30. DC-MAWS positioning on Su-30MKI.
Perhaps the IAF should junk the idea of a massive all-in-one Super Sukhoi upgrade and just start upgrading aircraft with newer indigenous systems as they become available. The DR-118 RWR, DARE's ASPJ, DC-MAWS, new mission computer, SDR, ODL etc. can be added to batches of aircraft when they come in for their overhauls, provided the systems are ready. They would have to pre-order a sufficient number of these systems and have them ready though. That would only leave the Radar and cockpit avionics left to be upgraded. If they wait for a big comprehensive upgrade deal it will seem expensive to the bean counters and may get delayed even further. Meanwhile the MKI's will continue flying without critical avionics upgrades despite them being available inhouse.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by SidSoma »

vinod wrote:
Shameek wrote:Su-30MKi v/s Thunder simulation...
This is a DCS simulation and a lot depends on the skill of the player. Sidewinder and longshot know their stuff very well. Also, it depends on how developed the DCS mod is. JF17 has been around for some time. There are simulations by terrorists babies showing off how great a thunder is.. :rotfl:

The main thing I could glean from DCS is the capabilities and how it could be used. Very informative!
This is a DCS simulation and a lot depends on the skill of the player.
Am also not sure how accurately the performance of various elements of an aircraft are modelled here. ITR and STR, climb rates responsiveness of engines etc are quite confidential and so are the performance of missiles. I mean where are the performance figures of SD-10 or Astra taken from (assuming that since AMRAAM-C5 has been around for donkey's years may be it is a good guesstimate).
The main thing I could glean from DCS is the capabilities and how it could be used. Very informative!
So cool to see how "going Hot and going cold, cranking" etc works. Give a great understanding how the morning after Balakot would have transpired and why the whole claim of Su-30 Shot down is complete bogus
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by brar_w »

nachiket wrote:Perhaps the IAF should junk the idea of a massive all-in-one Super Sukhoi upgrade and just start upgrading aircraft with newer indigenous systems as they become available.
Slotting hardware and software updates over time, and as they become available and are put through development and operational tests (as opposed to a very large traditional MLU approach), is certainly the norm these days when it comes to sustaining and modernizing fielded fleets of either 4+ or 5th generation aircraft. The all encompassing hardware refresh of the previous decades (the traditional MLU approach) is a bit of a thing of the past due to readiness and budget constraints, and the need to keep pace with technology which in some areas is outpacing the traditional MLU approach (requiring more frequent hardware refresh cycles).
Last edited by brar_w on 02 Feb 2022 19:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by vimal »

^^ Thats all good but how will IAF do the winter and summer trials.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by k prasad »

vimal wrote:^^ Thats all good but how will IAF do the winter and summer trials.
It's the Su-30, not the LCA, sirjee.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by vimal »

^^ You seem new here bruh
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6842&p=2475525#p2475525
A nice short clip from the Russian MoD with the night time A2A tanking of the Su-30SM with those lights on
Cannot imagine how challenging it would have been to tank up in pitch black conditions without this essential item

Fw to 1:12
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cybaru »

India should sign the 50 MKI deal soon, otherwise post sanctions it will become a bit difficult even with rupee-ruble trade and all.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by AkshaySG »

Cybaru wrote:India should sign the 50 MKI deal soon, otherwise post sanctions it will become a bit difficult even with rupee-ruble trade and all.
Is there anything to do that beyond rumors?... Unlike the 12 MKI and 21 Mig29 this doesn't even have any CCS clearance or any official talks behind it.

Besides where is the sudden need for 50 more MkI's come from?.. We are already facing a Capex crunch and to add 50 more types of a fighter that requires double the manpower and engines of other options seems a little too much.

Why not spend the money to get the Super Sukhoi upgrade kickstarted properly and improve the ~250 odd birds we already do have. If it's about increasing squadron size then more Tejas would do the trick. Or heck even 36 more Rafales.

The LCH contract is begging to be signed and imo would be a better use of Air Force's budget.

Even if the money has to go to Russia (as part of some prior understanding/deal etc) there are more critical needs than more MkI's imo
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Barath »

Also, sanctions should be incoming to Russia now and caatsa waivers will be tougher with us wanting to be harsh to Russia

The long predicted war seems to have happened faster than the aquisition
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by YashG »

AkshaySG wrote:
Cybaru wrote:India should sign the 50 MKI deal soon, otherwise post sanctions it will become a bit difficult even with rupee-ruble trade and all.

Why not spend the money to get the Super Sukhoi upgrade kickstarted properly and improve the ~250 odd birds we already do have. If it's about increasing squadron size then more Tejas would do the trick. Or heck even 36 more Rafales.
Every 6.5% improvement in MKI availability = 1 new squadron. We dhould never forget that 2 new MKI squadrun are available with some work on availability. If we need to indigenize certain spares that may contravene license arrangements - we could explore that now.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Ganesh_S »

Cybaru wrote:India should sign the 50 MKI deal soon, otherwise post sanctions it will become a bit difficult even with rupee-ruble trade and all.
It would be wiser to go for 50 odd rafales and close the mmrca saga once for all. IAF should focus on their variant of tebdf and upcoming indigenous programs. Super sukhoi can be worked out by drdo and hal.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by chetak »

a shooting war is a black swan type of event.

to expect India to comply with new sanctions on russia is asking for a bit too much

pampered europeans will be among the first to break sanctions because their energy security is threatened and they will have to make unwarranted lifestyle changes with a huge markup in costs as well as job losses due to deindustrialization and reduced social sector spending which may lead to public unrest.

we will have to secure our interests, irrespective of who likes or dislikes it.

payments to russia will be the least of our problems. If we paid eyraan, we will find a way to pay the russkis too.

this fiasco will make the amerikis gun shy of the hans and allow the cheenis to gain the upper hand with their aggressive expansion agenda

we will have to fight a lonely battle on our own so we might as well piss of the whiteys right from the start and plow our own furrow

biden mama has cut his own nose once again by talking big and not having the b@!!$ to follow through.

trump would not have found himself trapped like this.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by chetak »

nachiket wrote:
ramana wrote:The AL-41 upgrade scam will be to pay for Russian development costs.
The Uttam radar for SU-30MKI will be much, much better than their power guzzler microwave.
There is no scam. The engine upgrade is some twitter poster's imagination borne out of a similar upgrade made for the Su-30SM2 which has little to do with the IAF. Check Rakesh's link.
besides why upgrade if you are ok with the present power plant
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Ganesh_S wrote:
Cybaru wrote:India should sign the 50 MKI deal soon, otherwise post sanctions it will become a bit difficult even with rupee-ruble trade and all.
It would be wiser to go for 50 odd rafales and close the mmrca saga once for all. IAF should focus on their variant of tebdf and upcoming indigenous programs. Super sukhoi can be worked out by drdo and hal.
Absolutely 54 Raffies + 50 MKI would allows us to not add a type and close out the MXXX saga.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by YashG »

Cybaru wrote:
Ganesh_S wrote:
It would be wiser to go for 50 odd rafales and close the mmrca saga once for all. IAF should focus on their variant of tebdf and upcoming indigenous programs. Super sukhoi can be worked out by drdo and hal.
Absolutely 54 Raffies + 50 MKI would allows us to not add a type and close out the MXXX saga.
Cant an upgrade to MKI also span replacing the spares with lowest MBTF therefore increase availability. In effect increasing MKI squadron.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Ganesh_S »

Cybaru wrote:
Ganesh_S wrote:
It would be wiser to go for 50 odd rafales and close the mmrca saga once for all. IAF should focus on their variant of tebdf and upcoming indigenous programs. Super sukhoi can be worked out by drdo and hal.
Absolutely 54 Raffies + 50 MKI would allows us to not add a type and close out the MXXX saga.
I meant We don't need more mki's on top of what we already have. It's high time we upgrade these and move on.

The point being, too much dependency on Russian hardware for airforce alone is a big no. We need some diversity until domestic hardware matures...so 50 odd rafales should be suffice.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Rakesh »

Big boost for India’s defence! 12 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft order on the anvil
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/excl ... e-90253717
17 March 2022
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by isubodh »

Rakesh wrote: Big boost for India’s defence! 12 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft order on the anvil
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/excl ... e-90253717
17 March 2022
What happened to all the report of delay and issue with imports from Russia, was that last week only ? Are we sure sanctions won't hurt us anymore in this deal. I see a lot of contradiction.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Rakesh wrote: Big boost for India’s defence! 12 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft order on the anvil
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/excl ... e-90253717
17 March 2022
12 is hardly big boost! But I guess we will take whatever we get.I presume we think this will tide us through.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Kartik »

Cybaru wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Big boost for India’s defence! 12 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft order on the anvil
https://www.timesnownews.com/india/excl ... e-90253717
17 March 2022
12 is hardly big boost! But I guess we will take whatever we get.I presume we think this will tide us through.
Exactly. These are attrition replacements and will take another 3 years to join squadron service. Hardly a big boost. What is needed is to fast track and negotiate a Govt to Govt contract for additional Rafales for the IAF and IN with a Make In India assembly line. the MRFA tender will take ages to go through all it's stages. We know what fighter is best suited for the IAF, so why jump through all the other hoops when there is no need?
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by LakshmanPST »

Wonder if this is a good time to sign the deal or even bring out a news about CCS approval...
I feel it will be better if we move all Russian files discreetly (or not move them at all) until the war is over...
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Kartik wrote:
Cybaru wrote:
12 is hardly big boost! But I guess we will take whatever we get.I presume we think this will tide us through.
Exactly. These are attrition replacements and will take another 3 years to join squadron service. Hardly a big boost. What is needed is to fast track and negotiate a Govt to Govt contract for additional Rafales for the IAF and IN with a Make In India assembly line. the MRFA tender will take ages to go through all it's stages. We know what fighter is best suited for the IAF, so why jump through all the other hoops when there is no need?
Yeah! Unless HAL never stopped production and just waiting on parts that are needed from Russia. Then it may be earlier.

I also don't think there is any value in assembling raffies in India. MRO is useful, Safran-gtre svp is worth weight in gold, but not sure about the long gestation time required to pull fighters out of assembly line in India. What value do we add?

Just order straight from France and let them arrive earlier than 36 months if possible. 72-90 for IAF and 20 odd for IN. See if we can pick up 20-30 odd French m2k birds that have 2-2.5K hrs life left in them for a real low price to retire the mig21 squadrons. They need to go.
Last edited by Cybaru on 17 Mar 2022 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - 24 July 2021

Post by pravula »

LakshmanPST wrote:Wonder if this is a good time to sign the deal or even bring out a news about CCS approval...
I feel it will be better if we move all Russian files discreetly (or not move them at all) until the war is over...
Aren't new MKI orders placed to HAL?
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