Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

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LakshmanPST
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by LakshmanPST »

Anujan wrote:This was tweeted by HVT March 2020

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12399 ... 01?lang=en
Flavour of the day....

Maiden flight of LCA FOC series production fighter SP-21 tail number LA-5021, piloted by HAL's Chief of Test Flying, Air Commodore KA Muthana VSM.
So SP-21 is LA-5021
They changed the tail numbers after this... LA 5021 is today assigned to SP25...
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ArjunPandit »

Rakesh wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:Admiral-ji, someone is doing jakat on your behalf.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/15427 ... UW2ePQU7ow ---> BTW, had this a long time ago.
I saw that tweet :)

I am not discounting what HVT Sir is saying. I am only saying that the tweet that nam posted is not celebrating the first flight of Mk1A, but first flight of SP-26 in Mk1 avatar. The date of that tweet (28-Mar-2021) ties into the first flight of SP-26. Below is from Page 1 of the Mk1 thread...

• Line 1 ... SP-26 ... LA-5022 ... 27-Mar-2021 ... Group Captain Ashish Srivastava (Retd)

Now if HAL tacitly flew SP-26 on 26 Mar 2021 (or later) in Mk1A avatar, I would not know :mrgreen:
i like how tactfully you avoid the sweets reference...
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

Sourav Jha on Twitter
This is from @HALHQBLR's Q4 FY 2021-22 conference call. The reference is to the Tejas MK1A as is evident from the general tenor of the conference call.
Image

Note: Prototypes
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

Right On Basant! This is the confirmation that we all needed.

Kudos to HAL to have met (or probably even beat) their own deadline of the first flight by June 2022.

I have updated Page 1. Fantastic news. The Mk1A program is on track! This gives me hope for the Mk2 to be on point as well. Although I did read an IDRW report (but take it with a grain of salt) that the first flight of the Mk2 has been pushed back to August 2023.

Thank you so much Basant. This is really time for a lungi dance.

P.S. Can the IAF please order another 4 units more of this bird?
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Wow!

Does it mean its also integrated with ELTA 2052 & flying?
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

Very good question. My (uneducated) guess would be no. I have not seen any news reports of any Elta AESA sets being delivered to the IAF as of yet. If it was delivered clandestinely, then obviously no one would know. I am stating that because this entire first flight has been done quietly.

Why that occurred is a total mystery to me. HAL should have been shouting this first flight from the roof tops. I really hope this was not some asinine decision from some MoD Babu or some exec at HAL that did not want to make a huge hue & cry over this.

I hope none of these parochial lectures of "we-are-a-peace-loving-nation-onlee" :-? was made to keep the first flight hush-hush.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by maitya »

^^ Isn't ELTA-2052 sets are already flying in DARIN-III upgraded ones?
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

maitya wrote:^^ Isn't ELTA-2052 sets are already flying in DARIN-III upgraded ones?
Very good point Sir. I overlooked that. Yes they are.

I am not sure if the IAF has any spare sets of the Elta-2052 AESA from the Jaguar IM upgrade.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by maitya »

^^ Yep, here's one such old news item ...
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote:Right On Basant! This is the confirmation that we all needed.

Kudos to HAL to have met (or probably even beat) their own deadline of the first flight by June 2022.

I have updated Page 1. Fantastic news. The Mk1A program is on track! This gives me hope for the Mk2 to be on point as well. Although I did read an IDRW report (but take it with a grain of salt) that the first flight of the Mk2 has been pushed back to August 2023.

Thank you so much Basant. This is really time for a lungi dance.

P.S. Can the IAF please order another 4 units more of this bird?
It is on track and looks like a rumor floated by import guys.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:It is on track and looks like a rumor floated by import guys.
Thank You Ramana-ji.

By the way, look at the timeline;

* Formal sanction (order) was given at Aero India 2021 for 73 Tejas Mk1As + 10 twin seat Tejas Mk1s.

* First flight of Tejas Mk1A sometime in June 2022 (or earlier). So in a span of 16 months from order date, a prototype airframe (either an LSP or a SP) has taken to the air.

* This shows the level of confidence that HAL and the other stakeholders have in the Tejas program. A huge morale booster for the entire team. The platform has long since matured. And that is huge.

The Mk1A was only possible thanks to the persistence of the late Manohar Parrikar-ji. Thank You Sir!
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

Admiral, it's always a pleasure to share any +ve news on the Tejas. The 4 units you are talking of..., you mean 4 a/c or squadrons? :)
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

basant wrote:Admiral, it's always a pleasure to share any +ve news on the Tejas. The 4 units you are talking of..., you mean 4 a/c or squadrons? :)
Sorry basant, I should have been more clearer. 4 units = 4 squadrons.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

I admire your unit size! +100 to the same :D
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ramana »

Rakesh, it's a low-risk program. Mk1A basically rearranges the LRUs and removes some front-end ballast and adds the newer engine.
The airframe is the same as before. It's the internal packaging that is different.
The major redesign is the wiring or cable harness for all these relocated LRUs. No mean task if I may add.

I recall HAL saying 18 months after the contract award they will fly the flight-worthy article.
So it is good they met the deadline by two months.
The first 20 planes will have the Israeli AESA and then onwards it will be the Uttam.
Have to track that.
The 83 order is 73 plus 10 trainers? Basically, 40+72 is the old Mig 21 replacement numbers.
The limitation for more Mk1A is the jet engines I think.
Correct me if I am wrong.
The emphasis is on Mk2 as it will replace many other planes.


Yes, Manohar Parrikar's solution was amazing.
I heard he read the entire volumes off drivel(project report!) and came up with the Mk1A interim solution.
The 40 LCA Mk1 will get Mk1A upgrade when possible.
Meantime the 12 Su-30MKI and 21 Mig 29s and some unknown M2Ks will fill the numbers.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Anujan »

Parrikar's imprint is not just in Mk1A, but also on Arty, arjun, varunastra and a whole bunch of things which were suffering in limbo. He went too soon.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by konaseema »

ramana wrote:Rakesh, it's a low-risk program. Mk1A basically rearranges the LRUs and removes some front-end ballast and adds the newer engine.
The airframe is the same as before. It's the internal packaging that is different.
The major redesign is the wiring or cable harness for all these relocated LRUs. No mean task if I may add.

I recall HAL saying 18 months after the contract award they will fly the flight-worthy article.
So it is good they met the deadline by two months.
The first 20 planes will have the Israeli AESA and then onwards it will be the Uttam.
Have to track that.
The 83 order is 73 plus 10 trainers? Basically, 40+72 is the old Mig 21 replacement numbers.
The limitation for more Mk1A is the jet engines I think.
Correct me if I am wrong.
The emphasis is on Mk2 as it will replace many other planes.


Yes, Manohar Parrikar's solution was amazing.
I heard he read the entire volumes off drivel(project report!) and came up with the Mk1A interim solution.
The 40 LCA Mk1 will get Mk1A upgrade when possible.
Meantime the 12 Su-30MKI and 21 Mig 29s and some unknown M2Ks will fill the numbers.

Sir, If I am not mistaken, there was never a newer engine in the Mk1A but GE-414 was slated for Mk2.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Atmavik »

Anujan wrote:Parrikar's imprint is not just in Mk1A, but also on Arty, arjun, varunastra and a whole bunch of things which were suffering in limbo. He went too soon.
+ htt 40
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Atmavik »

konaseema wrote: Sir, If I am not mistaken, there was never a newer engine in the Mk1A but GE-414 was slated for Mk2.

You are correct GE 414 was always meant for mk 2. Mk 1a uses ge 404 with the modifications mentioned above. Early on HAL had proposed mk 1a with a redesigned landing gear to reduce weight , not sure of that has happened but the key re arrangements will surely help
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Barath »

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 72677.html

@Rakesh for the front page : LCA LIFT expected to roll out 2025.

First time a date has been mentioned afaik

Australia is not interested in indian proposal for 35 lift aircraft, submitted in Sep 2021. I doubt anyone set great store by that even if they were aware.

And with a typical lead time of 3 years for a prototype and working backwards, one could assume that the LIFT design was likely close to finalization, but not finalized at time of the malaysian FLIT LCA rfp (hal submitted sep 2021, same month as the offer to australia). Which no doubt acted as a spur
Last edited by Barath on 06 Jul 2022 07:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Barath »

ramana wrote:.
Yes, Manohar Parrikar's solution was amazing.
I heard he read the entire volumes off drivel(project report!) and came up with the Mk1A interim solution.
The 40 LCA Mk1 will get Mk1A upgrade when possible.
Meantime the 12 Su-30MKI and 21 Mig 29s and some unknown M2Ks will fill the numbers.
Please do not forget the men on the ground who actually made it possible

Air Commodore Kalianda Appaya Muthana was ideally placed as HAL's Chief Test Pilot (fixed wing) and IAF background

No doubt the backing of Manohar Parrikar was critical, and he too deserves credit, but i doubt that Parrikar had the technical chops to convince the IAF. Today we remember only the minister and forget the others who were essential. So it is worth remembering what his fellow test pilots say about Cmdr Muthana

https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/in ... 19475.html
His fellow HAL test pilots on the programme, Harsh Vardhan Thakur, Subroto Chaki and Pratyush Awasthi highlighted two solid outcome-driven achievements during his stint as Chief Fixed Wing Test Pilot. He first managed to convince the MoD and the IAF top brass to back the ‘doable’ LCA MK 1A rather than the over-the-top LCA Mk II.
Also, iirc, the 12 MKI and 21 Mig 29 order is on hold. Under review along with other foreign imports. Possibly atmanirbhar, possibly budget, possibly russian war impetus and uncertainties added to the hold. Russia submitted their proposal in Jul 2021, and then it went into negotiation, got sorted out but was still pending approval. When the defence ministry started reviewing all the Buy Global imports. Afaik, the order has not been placed. Whether or when it will see light of day, who knows ?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 193689.ece

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/i ... ghter-deal
Last edited by Barath on 06 Jul 2022 08:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Barath »

Rakesh wrote:Very good question. My (uneducated) guess would be no. I have not seen any news reports of any Elta AESA sets being delivered to the IAF as of yet..
Elta 2052 was delivered for Jaguar and it is flying on that and achieved IOC. Different config/size. A low quality source, and before the Mk1A order , but this claims that two LSP were planned to fly , one with Elta 2052 radar ordered under guise of Jaguar.

https://idrw.org/hal-to-test-elm-2052-a ... r-83-jets/

FWIW. Probably best take with a pinch of salt

Also, no doubt it is good to hear about Mk1A flying and all that, but the first 18 planes to be manufactured will afaik be two seat trainers with the 2032 radar (8 from Mk1 order, 10 from MK1A order) in a single batch. Which means the avionics subsystem certification possibly is off the critical path. By the time those trainers are done, HAL has to be ready for wip of first planes of 1st squadron of 2052 aesa planes. And only then for uttam planes

Which is also likely why prototypes are flying, considering uttam is not yet certified and could possibly have time for a couple of more minor iterations.. (eg software fixes etc). While 2052 is certified, but not on LCA
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

Rakesh wrote:
maitya wrote:^^ Isn't ELTA-2052 sets are already flying in DARIN-III upgraded ones?
Very good point Sir. I overlooked that. Yes they are.

I am not sure if the IAF has any spare sets of the Elta-2052 AESA from the Jaguar IM upgrade.
Why would spare sets be required, Admiral? It's very old news that it was Israel that was insisting on India using 2052 at least on one more a/c apart from Jaguar.
Then, in 2012, Elta sensed an opportunity and offered to equip the Jaguar with its new ELM-2052 AESA radar. This would provide the Jaguar real ability to beat off enemy fighters, even while on its primary mission of ground strike. Says HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju: "I was delighted when Elta offered the AESA radar for the Jaguar. Elta wanted neither development costs nor more time."

Elta's offer, however, came with the condition that at least one more fighter in the IAF's inventory should field the ELM-2052 AESA radar. To sweeten the deal, Elta offered to work jointly with HAL on an improved version of the ELM-2052.

This was a win-win for both Elta and HAL. "Look at the market HAL provides Elta. The 61 Jaguars being upgraded to DARIN-3 would all be fitted with the ELM-2052. At least 100 Tejas would get the improved version, possibly with more to follow. Meanwhile, 50 IAF Mirage-2000 fighters are being upgraded, but with a manual radar that could become obsolescent quickly. So the improved AESA could eventually equip the Mirage fleet too, adding up to 200-plus radars," says Raju.
I always suspected that the primary reason for not using Uttam for the first lot was the above understanding.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Barath »

basant wrote:
Then, in 2012, Elta sensed an opportunity and offered to equip the Jaguar with its new ELM-2052 AESA radar. This would provide the Jaguar real ability to beat off enemy fighters, even while on its primary mission of ground strike. Says HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju: "I was delighted when Elta offered the AESA radar for the Jaguar. Elta wanted neither development costs nor more time."

Elta's offer, however, came with the condition that at least one more fighter in the IAF's inventory should field the ELM-2052 AESA radar. To sweeten the deal, Elta offered to work jointly with HAL on an improved version of the ELM-2052.
.
I always suspected that the primary reason for not using Uttam for the first lot was the above understanding.
A simple question to your suggestion. Who is paying for the integration of elta 2052 onto tejas now ? Is it elta or is it india.

Which should answer the question of whether india even took advantage of elta's juicy offer.

I always figured it was because hal had issued an rfq, and elta won it. Creating implicit understanding and possibly contractual commitment of some sort.

And that was driven by integration to ew , which was apparently a implicit condition of the rfp.

Since elta pods were already used with mki, that too would have created an reason


HAL issued an RFQ for radar and EW and that they have to be integrated to work together.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/201 ... s.html?m=1

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/india-s ... -aircraft/

So a simple question to
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by dinesha »

basant wrote:Sourav Jha on Twitter
This is from @HALHQBLR's Q4 FY 2021-22 conference call. The reference is to the Tejas MK1A as is evident from the general tenor of the conference call.
Image

Note: Prototypes
This conference call was held on 20th May 2022. So the first flight of prototype was earlier then that.

Image

[url=chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/corpf ... 4cb40b.pdf]Entire transcript from BSE site.. has goldmine of info[/url]
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by VishnuS »

maitya wrote:^^ Isn't ELTA-2052 sets are already flying in DARIN-III upgraded ones?
Sir, that would be correct, but there is a world of difference between Jag ELTA and Tejas ELTA.

I am sure you and many others know that Jag ELTA has fewer TR modules. Also DARIN-III has more electrical load, so I doubt those TR modules will be operated at full power.

I don't think anybody will be angry if I call JAG's ELTA "A Ferrari with 90 km speed limiter"
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by VishnuS »

Barath wrote:
Elta 2052 was delivered for Jaguar and it is flying on that and achieved IOC. Different config/size. A low quality source, and before the Mk1A order , but this claims that two LSP were planned to fly , one with Elta 2052 radar ordered under guise of Jaguar.

https://idrw.org/hal-to-test-elm-2052-a ... r-83-jets/

FWIW. Probably best take with a pinch of salt

Also, no doubt it is good to hear about Mk1A flying and all that, but the first 18 planes to be manufactured will afaik be two seat trainers with the 2032 radar (8 from Mk1 order, 10 from MK1A order) in a single batch. Which means the avionics subsystem certification possibly is off the critical path. By the time those trainers are done, HAL has to be ready for wip of first planes of 1st squadron of 2052 aesa planes. And only then for uttam planes

Which is also likely why prototypes are flying, considering uttam is not yet certified and could possibly have time for a couple of more minor iterations.. (eg software fixes etc). While 2052 is certified, but not on LCA
Bhai, well the story is different. At least from what I remember, when we went to ELTA for Radar, they insisted on putting it on two types of A/C.

Thus JAGs got ELTA and since JAGs have low electrical load and we planned to add additional electronic stuff, ELTA had to be toned down.

Now, coming to Uttam, and what I know is couple of years old, the last squadron are supposed to get Uttam. But according to AI 21 guys, Uttam development did progress quicker than expected. So unless some gurus come back with more juicy stuff...

PS. How can I upload images from my mobile?
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

Thanks Dinesha for referring to the transcript. The link did not work for me so I found another on the HAL website.

Barath, I do not know of any details regarding the cost of integration. Given that HAL already worked on Jaguar's upgrade and the necessity for AESA, the cost factor is probably not a big issue. We are aware of various articles against the Elta's choice (such as from Business Standard) and the RFPs, but to my understanding the RFPs themselves are issued after preliminary discussions and understanding. HAL would have known who would be making the best offer anyway even before the responses were received. The background works play a crucial role in such government processes and that is true even in the procurement of not so expensive equipment. Elta was a good choice for our ecosystem, as you have described. Additionally, it was sensible to go with a known and proven radar so that it does not become a rate-limiting step in the certification of Mk1A.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/kartachar/status/15 ... HpqLX-u5JQ ---> LCA Trainers will start to be delivered to the IAF this year and partially next year- HAL CMD R Madhavan. There are total orders for 18 LCA Trainers (4 first order + 4 second order + 10 from Mk1A order).
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ramana »

PS. How can I upload images from my mobile?
I found the easiest is to get a Twitter account and tweet them.
Then post that image here.
Or get some image site account and then post them here.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:Very good question. My (uneducated) guess would be no. I have not seen any news reports of any Elta AESA sets being delivered to the IAF as of yet. If it was delivered clandestinely, then obviously no one would know. I am stating that because this entire first flight has been done quietly.

Why that occurred is a total mystery to me. HAL should have been shouting this first flight from the roof tops. I really hope this was not some asinine decision from some MoD Babu or some exec at HAL that did not want to make a huge hue & cry over this.

I hope none of these parochial lectures of "we-are-a-peace-loving-nation-onlee" :-? was made to keep the first flight hush-hush.
IAF isn’t a plane maker, why would Elta deliver radars to them? HAL is the OEM and signs agreements with other OEMs, they have an existing relationship with Elta for AESARs so numbers and orders won’t necessarily be breaking news especially as the same 2052 is already with them for DARIN 3 upgrades
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

Barath wrote:Elta 2052 was delivered for Jaguar and it is flying on that and achieved IOC. Different config/size. A low quality source, and before the Mk1A order , but this claims that two LSP were planned to fly , one with Elta 2052 radar ordered under guise of Jaguar.

https://idrw.org/hal-to-test-elm-2052-a ... r-83-jets/

FWIW. Probably best take with a pinch of salt
Bharat, IDRW plagiarizes their articles, so they obviously got this from somewhere. Great find. So they are using Elta's 2052 AESA on a Tejas. This is excellent.
basant wrote:Why would spare sets be required, Admiral? It's very old news that it was Israel that was insisting on India using 2052 at least on one more a/c apart from Jaguar.
A great article. And ties in with what Barath posted above. Thank You.
KSingh wrote:IAF isn’t a plane maker, why would Elta deliver radars to them? HAL is the OEM and signs agreements with other OEMs, they have an existing relationship with Elta for AESARs so numbers and orders won’t necessarily be breaking news especially as the same 2052 is already with them for DARIN 3 upgrades
I did not explain more clearly in my earlier post. However basant and barath provided the clarifications. Much clearer to me.

My apologies for the confusion.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ks_sachin »

One of the reason that the 2052 was chosen was that after our initial failure with the MMR the 2032 was chosen to equip the LCA. Since 2032 is already integrated it is going to be a lot easier to integrate the 2052 into the LCA.

Remember at the time of the RFP by HAL there were talks of Selex etc as well or at least there was chatter on BRF.

Please correct me if I am wrong Admiral.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Rakesh »

Sirjee, I have no clue as to why the Elta 2052 was chosen. More informed posters will be able to enlighten.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by ks_sachin »

Admiral

Our MMR efforts failed.
Then we decided to integrate the. 2032 back end with our MMR front end.

This is what I remember.

If the 2032 back end already exists then integration of 2052 is less of a problem.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by Kartik »

ks_sachin wrote:One of the reason that the 2052 was chosen was that after our initial failure with the MMR the 2032 was chosen to equip the LCA. Since 2032 is already integrated it is going to be a lot easier to integrate the 2052 into the LCA.

Remember at the time of the RFP by HAL there were talks of Selex etc as well or at least there was chatter on BRF.

Please correct me if I am wrong Admiral.
There was a tender for selecting the AESA for the Tejas Mk1A. What was of prime importance was schedule; HAL couldn't take the risk of linking the Mk1A program to the Uttam AESA radar (which was already in design but not flying as yet) when it was in talks with the IAF on the configuration. We had already seen what happened in the past with the MMR, which despite best efforts failed to deliver a working radar set that met the requirements.

The options were Elta 2052 and a scaled down RBE-2, both of which would've met all requirements. Selex has a good set in the Raven ES-05A used on the Gripen E but am not sure if it was a real contender or not.

As you mentioned, the Tejas Mk1 was already using the Elta 2032 MMR hybrid and to good effect. The Elta 2052 would've used many of the same algorithms developed for the 2032 (as does the RBE-2 from the earlier PESA RBE on the Rafale F2). Familiarity with the Elta 2052 thanks to the Jaguar DARIN-3 upgrade probably played a factor and as things went, 2052 was declared L1. I'm not 100% certain, but I feel that weapons integrations may also have been easier with the 2052, given what was done for the 2032.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by mody »

We had tried to procure the Elta-2052 in place of the 2032 for the MK1 as well. The Israeli's were OK with this, but Uncle put a spanner in the works. The radar was developed using funding from the US and hence, exports required US approval. Back then, US did not give the approval and we continued with the 2032-MMR hybrid. Later as the Uttam started to take shape and the Netra was coming along, 2052 was offered to us, with the condition that we use it for multiple platforms. Standard Operating Procedure only.

For the MK1A the 2052 was chosen, though other options might have been considered. I don't think there was a public tender, as no quantity was ever specified. There was also the question of integrating the air to air weapons with the radar. As the primary BVR missile at the time for the Tejas was suppoed to be the Derby or I-Derby, the integration with the Elta-2052 would have been straight forward.
Earlier the Uttam MK1 was supposed to be a tech demonstrator and the MK2 would go on the Tejas MK2. All the MK1A were supposed to be equipped with Elta 2052. However, as Uttam came up faster then expected and as the initial results were better than the 2032-MMR, the Uttam was pursued more vigorously. Finally as the Uttam development of all the air to air modes was completed and the air to ground was going on, there was sufficient confidence to limit the 2052 to only the first 20 aircrafts and then switch over to the Uttam MK1.
This fact gives a lot of confidence as Elta 2052 is a fairly good AESA radar, on par with the current ones that USAF uses on the F-16s and F-18s. If Uttam is able to match this performance it really portends well for the future.
By the way I think even most of the air to ground modes for the Uttam MK1 have been completed and the certification might get done by 2024, though this is only speculation on my part and some more knowledgeable folks might have a better idea.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by fanne »

Thanks - this is how I also remember the history. Only to add that Uttam progressed very fast once we mastered the basics, not linear but exponential.
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Re: Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Post by basant »

True. I think we could achieve faster success with AESA than MMR with because the tech was already available, albeit on the slow moving AEW programme. The capabilities can now be ported from one programme to another, also thanks to network centric approach adopted. Which makes me wonder if we could handover terminal guidance to land-based assets after firing a missile by any platform in LOAL mode, or even share updates in case of LOBL.
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