Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 May 2022 00:09

Russia has been very unAmerican in its approach I agree. I can't fathom why they allowed mobile & internet, electricity, water supply, utilities, road, rail, civilian airports etc to function for so long and allow resupply and the bleeding hearts for Nazis circus show go on in the hottest tourist destination for heads of state or their wives or rock star hasbeens ie Kiev...

Putin has to realise that any hopes he had of saving parts of Ukraine, or historic cities like Odessa, Kiev or saving its people from suicidal Nazi ideology are no longer realistic. I believe at this stage across fronts be in on land or air, Ukranian troops are facing guns in front of them and behind them. Like the Snake island fiasco planned by elensky's gang & their Brtishit advisors as a message to Putin for May 9th, much against the advice of AFU senior brass, who were ordered to stfu and execute the mission - according to Russian reports.

The best combat tactic Russia can adopt now is to hold and lie in wait, finger on trigger. Darwin will do the rest.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 May 2022 00:15

Comparing Blitzkrieg to Russian deep battle.

https://twitter.com/witte_sergei/status ... o6RqA&s=19

bala · Post by **bala** » 11 May 2022 00:19

BTW Russia disabled Viasat's KA-SAT, a satellite internet network, which took tens of thousands of modems offline at the onset of Russia-Ukraine war. The satellite modem sabotage caused a "huge loss in communications in the very beginning of war," Ukrainian cybersecurity official Victor Zhora said in March and "They were down and down hard; they had to go back to the factory to be swapped out."

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 00:31

bala wrote:BTW Russia disabled Viasat's KA-SAT, a satellite internet network, which took tens of thousands of modems offline at the onset of Russia-Ukraine war. The satellite modem sabotage caused a "huge loss in communications in the very beginning of war," Ukrainian cybersecurity official Victor Zhora said in March and "They were down and down hard; they had to go back to the factory to be swapped out."

Great so we should expect them to disable Star Link any moment now.

John · Post by **John** » 11 May 2022 00:56

bala wrote: Deputy head of Ukrainian navy, Colonel Bezday, killed in action while conducting a military operation with the Mi-14 marine helicopter which was hit by a Russian fighter jet.

From what I can piece together the Mi-14 was shot down around snake island right before Su-27 strikes, I suspect Ukr Navy was using Mi-14 to detect ships and coordinate the TB2 which is interesting strategy but not without risks. However it looks like Russians mistook Mi-14 as Mi-8 and likely sent Spec Ops to secure the island thinking Ukranians are attempting an invasion and that was hit with TB2.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 11 May 2022 01:03

From what I know, disabling Starlink will require taking out a ground station. Or did Starlink figure out something the experimental tech that would not require ground stations?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 01:19

The nearest Star Link ground stations are all on NATO territories so that would entail an attack on NATO. Ukraine has no ground stations on its soil.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 May 2022 01:34

The first thing NATO will do if attacked is immediately capitulate and sue for peace. None of them have the stomach or the brains or the muscle for a fight with Russia, least of all the US. Because they know they've built a totally fake story from the very beginning, since 2010.

NATO has painted Russia so hugely as an inept monster that they have painted themselves into a corner and won't be able to justify why they can't take on a terminal dying mad man and his army of corrupt jokers pissing vodka. But not to worry, the Empire of Lies helped by the Ministry of Truth will help us through it all and make us comfortably numb. As mushrooms tower over our great cities someone on the hill will still chuckle one last time "see, I told you he is a mad man..."

John · Post by **John** » 11 May 2022 01:38

Cyrano wrote:The first thing NATO will do if attacked is immediately capitulate and sue for peace. None of them have the stomach or the brains or the muscle for a fight with Russia, least of all the US. Because they know they've built a totally fake story from the very beginning, since 2010.

NATO has painted Russia so hugely as an inept monster that they have painted themselves into a corner and won't be able to justify why they can't take on a terminal dying mad man and his army of corrupt jokers pissing vodka. But not to worry, the Empire of Lies helped by the Ministry of Truth will help us through it all and make us comfortably numb. As mushrooms tower over our great cities someone on the hill will still chuckle one last time "see, I told you he is a mad man..."

No one is painting Russia as incompetent Russians themselves have display pretty poor combat tactics but not surprising if you followed what they have done in Chechnya. For political discussions on NATO and US there is another thread for that please keep this Combat relevant.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 01:55

Cyrano wrote:The first thing NATO will do if attacked is immediately capitulate and sue for peace.

Let’s not jump the gun here and wait till Russia attacks those Star Link ground stations in Poland, Turkey or elsewhere . As long as they have google they should be able to find GPS coordinates for the same. Meanwhile, we can take this “what if” commentary to an appropriate thread or wait till Russia actually does something like that and keep this thread focused on what they actually do and not what someone wished they’d do. I believe Star Link is still functioning so step A could be that they jam that signal. Let see how long it takes them to do that before we focus on them attacking physical hardware in Poland or elsewhere.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 May 2022 02:07

vera_k wrote:From what I know, disabling Starlink will require taking out a ground station. Or did Starlink figure out something the experimental tech that would not require ground stations?

Starlink sent a few 1000 terminals to UKR. The service itself was activated in Feb.

Each terminal can connect with a Starlink sat - does not need a ground station - which was the purpose of Starlink in the first place.

However, the uplink of a terminal can be very easily triangulated and therefore targeted.

IIRC RU did try and jam or interfere with Starlink - do not know the details - and the DoD did mention that with one line of code Starlink overcame the problem

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 02:25

Star link still (for now) requires the presence of a ground stations (that serve as gateways) nearby for it to operate. The terminals in Ukraine can operate because there are ground stations in Poland, Turkey and Lithuania. Wouldn’t be surprised if Elon Musk and SX are working on mobile ground stations for Ukraine. I haven’t seen any evidence of Russian Air Force or army targeting individual Star link terminals and it has to be a constant thing because they have to find and destroy them faster than space X can build and ship them (good luck to them doing that) .

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 May 2022 02:34

France and Germany are throwing in the towel for their neoNazi fighter who is getting clobbered in the ring by a bear. Watch the Macron - Scholtz presser today, better still if you get the transcript. What they have said and what they have stopped saying tells it all.
I expect Brtishits and V Nuland to burn phones and avgaz to drag the fight one more round coz their battered fighter is not yet totally dead. For all the drugs they pumped into him, he can surely last a bit longer and bring down the bear?

Sorry gents there is no more combat tactics to discuss. Coz what's happening in Ukraine is not combat but a grotesque tragedy. A country has been used worse than a door mat and the west tricked them into it and they jumped in willingly and now that they lost, the'll get blamed for being neoNazis and thrown into the dustbin. The last part struck me just now and it's so utterly hedious. Guess who'll make peace with these brainwashed like a sooside bomber Ukranians and help them pick up and rebuild? Russia.

The west will pay for this Karma...

John · Post by **John** » 11 May 2022 03:11

Very rare Russian Tu-141 drone being used as bait wreckage discovered fully you can see how big it is, both sides use this drone

https://twitter.com/caucasuswar/status/ ... M1PqBHkN_A

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 11 May 2022 03:29

Cyrano wrote:
The west will pay for this Karma...

Karma as a concept is vastly over rated.
No one will pay.
Not Putin not the West. No one will take the blame.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 11 May 2022 05:06

NRao wrote:
vera_k wrote:From what I know, disabling Starlink will require taking out a ground station. Or did Starlink figure out something the experimental tech that would not require ground stations?
Starlink sent a few 1000 terminals to UKR. The service itself was activated in Feb.

Each terminal can connect with a Starlink sat - does not need a ground station - which was the purpose of Starlink in the first place.

However, the uplink of a terminal can be very easily triangulated and therefore targeted.

IIRC RU did try and jam or interfere with Starlink - do not know the details - and the DoD did mention that with one line of code Starlink overcame the problem

I am sure that the terminals that were/are sent to Ukraine are for the newer Premium Tier service. Besides being mobile, the larger antennae results in higher speeds (150 Mbps to 500 Mbps) and operates better in inclement weather. As far as triangulation is concerned, the Russians do not have the capability to start going after thousands of mobile Starlink terminals i.e. the terminal can be moved after an internet session. AFAIK the Ukranians are using Starlink for linking their sensors to shooters e.g. images from UAVs to artillery to target Russian assets. The high data speeds and low latency facilitates this.

The newer Starlink satellites have a satellite to satellite laser data link which improves latency and reduces the need for ground stations. Eventually the Starlink constellation will consist of only the newer satellites with the laser data link as older gen satellites reach their end of service dates.

bala · Post by **bala** » 11 May 2022 09:26

ks_sachin wrote: Karma as a concept is vastly over rated.

Karma is a sound concept, written in the Vedas which has so far been proven to be true, since it is Sruthi. You may not believe in karma just as Abrahamics don't. Accounts are not settled within 1 lifetime but over many lifetimes.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 11 May 2022 10:04

bala wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: Karma as a concept is vastly over rated.
Karma is a sound concept, written in the Vedas which has so far been proven to be true, since it is Sruthi. You may not believe in karma just as Abrahamics don't. Accounts are not settled within 1 lifetime but over many lifetimes.

Good on you.

I also believe in unicorns...

Raman · Post by **Raman** » 11 May 2022 10:33

A fascinating must read twitter thread on Ukrainian artillery command and control https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1523 ... 33088.html

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 May 2022 11:21

I don’t believe at present it is possible currently to jam Starlink communications over a wide swathe of area. Russia has neither the equipment nor the expertise. And if Starlink is frequency hopping as brar implied it is even more difficult.

Long term someone needs to come up with a pulsed EMP system that triggers when the satellites fly overhead. That or a ground based laser that can take out satellites. Both are not possible at the moment.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 May 2022 13:03

Why is starlink proving to be such a challenge?

In order to communicate with the ROW it still needs to send and receive radio signals. How difficult is to identify the starlink signal and kill the base terminal?

Using ARM or even coordinated arty strikes.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 May 2022 13:59

Ghost of Kiev, US DOD, there is a real war and a propaganda war going on . Truth will co.e out soon enough. Difficult to separate truth from what is put on the electronic media right now

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 May 2022 14:51

Pratyush wrote:Why is starlink proving to be such a challenge?

In order to communicate with the ROW it still needs to send and receive radio signals. How difficult is to identify the starlink signal and kill the base terminal?

Using ARM or even coordinated arty strikes.

Russians do not have the assets to indetify, triangulate, and destroy the base terminals. The problem is compounded when the terminals are on only for short periods. You would need a large number of jammers over the entire front line. It can be done, but Russians cant at the moment.

Ideally you would want to target the source i.e the satellites to prevent this whack a mole approach.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 11 May 2022 15:54

For Russian clips of the actual fighting, paste this in your youtube search:
Военный Осведомитель

Not much commentary, so language does not matter. Good footage from the Russian side.
One recent clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GZUcTsDssU

John · Post by **John** » 11 May 2022 17:34

Caught by Chinese media in Ukraine, not sure what hit the tank to cause it pop turret this high. This is deep within Russian controlled territory.

https://twitter.com/notwoofers/status/1 ... a6ZIlBCOrA

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 18:10

John wrote:Caught by Chinese media in Ukraine, not sure what hit the tank to cause it pop turret this high. This is deep within Russian controlled territory.

https://twitter.com/notwoofers/status/1 ... a6ZIlBCOrA

Must be close to a 100 ft up in the air likely due to the tanks ammo exploding after a ATGM hit.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 11 May 2022 18:31

ks_sachin wrote: I also believe in unicorns...

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 11 May 2022 18:41

Raman wrote:A fascinating must read twitter thread on Ukrainian artillery command and control https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1523 ... 33088.html

Thanks for sharing this. This is indeed a very fascinating read and bring to point an "agile" way of fighting by making use of high quality COTS products. Brings a little more perspective on how Starlink is used as a force multiplier.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 11 May 2022 18:46

Pratyush wrote:Why is starlink proving to be such a challenge?

In order to communicate with the ROW it still needs to send and receive radio signals. How difficult is to identify the starlink signal and kill the base terminal?

Using ARM or even coordinated arty strikes.

Let's think through this a bit more. How large is Star Link terminal? Is it fixed (permanently so that you can target it once ID even if its not transmitting) or mobile? What type of signal, and of what strength, would it transmit? Given the size of Ukraine, how many EW and ELINT assets you would need to pick up sporadic SL transmissions 24x7? Can you close the targeting loop on such a low power, and small sized antenna and signal? What sort of ARM would you need, and how can you effectively target potentially hundreds if not thousands of such terminals that can be easily replenished at sub $1000 unit cost?

They'll run out of ARMs before they make a sizable dent in the Star Link's in Ukraine or those that can be sent there at moments notice given replenishment costs. Also worth noting, that Ukraine apparently still has some medium range air-defense capability in some parts of the countries. One would think that those radars would be taken out first before you can move SEAD resources to destroying sub 15 kg satellite internet terminals.

You are not going to overcome SL via a strategy to target individual terminals or try to attack satellites in space (Space X has the capability to do a launch a week). This is a CEW problem and that's the only effective strategy here.

Tanaji wrote:I don’t believe at present it is possible currently to jam Starlink communications over a wide swathe of area. Russia has neither the equipment nor the expertise. And if Starlink is frequency hopping as brar implied it is even more difficult.

If they're unable to disrupt SL to a point that it becomes tactically useless for Ukraine then its really a reflection on their wartime CEW capabilities. In an actual near peer conflict (where they other side can play in the EM and Space domains), hardware and signals of interest would be Mil-hardened, harder to jam, and have a team of CEW experts protecting them (not to mention redundancies built into targeting to avoid single points of failures) so each measure you take will be contested and have a potential counter response.

John · Post by **John** » 11 May 2022 21:15

Looks like Ukrainians took out the pontoon I noted earlier along with lot of units around it (I suspect it is work of an air strike coupled with artillery bombardment). Close to 40 vehicles where attempting to cross looks like good chunk are taken out. This should show what happens when you prioritize speed to show some captures before victory day.

https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/statu ... uLKhFDqEbQ

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 May 2022 23:05

For what it is worth, here is an article from today. As far as I know Starlinks is not a mature tech for military applications.

It is news to me that they are using it in any military application in UKR. Though should not be surprised if it is in use in any capacity out there.

Russia is 'ramping up' efforts to take down Starlink internet over Ukraine

Though SpaceX has "resisted Russian cyberwar jamming and hacking attempts so far".

.............

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 12 May 2022 02:00

John wrote:….Close to 40 vehicles where attempting to cross looks like good chunk are taken out. This should show what happens when you prioritize speed to show some captures before victory day.

https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/statu ... uLKhFDqEbQ

That’s a significant proportion of a BTG worth of tanks and IFVs.

It had seemed post Kyiv that the Russians had reverted to a slow and mutually supported method of advance in the North, but apparently they tried an end run once again with May 9th in mind.

John · Post by **John** » 12 May 2022 04:48

Baikul wrote:
John wrote:….Close to 40 vehicles where attempting to cross looks like good chunk are taken out. This should show what happens when you prioritize speed to show some captures before victory day.

https://twitter.com/Arslon_Xudosi/statu ... uLKhFDqEbQ
That’s a significant proportion of a BTG worth of tanks and IFVs.

It had seemed post Kyiv that the Russians had reverted to a slow and mutually supported method of advance in the North, but apparently they tried an end run once again with May 9th in mind.

Ukranian soldier who participated gives a rundown below says there could be as much as 1500 Russian casualties. He does confirm my earlier assessment that there were aerial strikes as well, pretty amazing that RuAF couldn’t provide air support for what is a critical operation..

https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524 ... iqgCOOaHTA

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 12 May 2022 10:32

As deeply concerning for Russia as the snake oil I mean island story.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 12 May 2022 11:04

bala wrote: Karma is a sound concept, written in the Vedas which has so far been proven to be true, since it is Sruthi. You may not believe in karma just as Abrahamics don't. Accounts are not settled within 1 lifetime but over many lifetimes.

Yes. Makes a lot of sense too plus there's very solid qualitative research from the University of Virginia on this. But what to do wonlee, There are plenty of Desi babus who have swallowed the West is best Kool aid very nicely! Even on this forum.

Any way, last from me on this before mods decide to use karmic mijjile.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 12 May 2022 12:26

Cain Marko wrote:
bala wrote: Karma is a sound concept, written in the Vedas which has so far been proven to be true, since it is Sruthi. You may not believe in karma just as Abrahamics don't. Accounts are not settled within 1 lifetime but over many lifetimes.
Yes. Makes a lot of sense too plus there's very solid qualitative research from the University of Virginia on this. But what to do wonlee, There are plenty of Desi babus who have swallowed the West is best Kool aid very nicely! Even on this forum.

Any way, last from me on this before mods decide to use karmic mijjile.

And a lot many who have arrived at that point of view about Karma and god without the kool-aid is it not?

bala · Post by **bala** » 12 May 2022 21:57

Ukr are desparately pleading with Russia to extract their Azov battalion from Mariupol. According to the Azov Battalion, over the past day, 38 Russian aircraft have attacked Azovstal, Mariupol, including four sorties of strategic bombers. Russian artillery, tanks and mortars continue to shell the plant. Russia is continuing its attempts to capture the Ukrainian fortress and carry out daily assaults with the support of infantry. The garrison includes the Azov Regiment special operations detachment, the 12th Brigade of the National Guard, the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, border guards, police, volunteers, and city territorial defenders.

Russian forces are conducting offensives in the Lyman, Sievierodonetsk, Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Kurakhiv directions in the Donbas simultaneously. Their main goal is for establishment of full control over the town of Rubizhne, and capture the towns of Lyman and Sievierodonetsk. In the Lyman direction, the Russians crossed the Siversky Donets River to bring over their main forces and conduct an offensive. In the direction of Siversk, they're advancing in the direction of Zelena Dolyna and Novoselivka. Fighting continues. In the Bakhmut direction, Russia is storming Pervomaisk and Komyshuvakha. Combat there is ongoing. In the Avdiivka direction, the Russians are storming Novobakhmutivka and Novokalynove. In the Kurakhiv direction, the Russians are advancing in the directions of Stepne – Novomykhailivka, Slavne – Novomykhailivka, and Oleksandrivka – Maryinka. Russian forces are regrouping troops in the Slovyansk direction to resume the offensive on Barvinkove and Slovyansk. In the areas north of the city of Kharkiv, the Russians fired artillery at units of Ukrainian troops in order to inflict losses on manpower, weapons, and military equipment.

Above is News from multiple sources mainly from "New Voice of Ukraine", e.g. https://news.yahoo.com/russian-invaders ... 00453.html

John · Post by **John** » 12 May 2022 23:00

bala wrote:In the areas north of the city of Kharkiv, the Russians fired artillery at units of Ukrainian troops in order to inflict losses on manpower, weapons, and military equipment.

Please put sources for any claims. Kharkiv region more or less been cleaned up of Russian forces and the retreat has been confirmed by Russian sources as well. Artillery bombardment has but stopped.

https://twitter.com/nrg8000/status/1524 ... -k2P_lUYiA

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/stat ... -k2P_lUYiA

Russian source acknowledging it

https://twitter.com/rwapodcast/status/1 ... -k2P_lUYiA

Unconfirmed Ukraine claiming they have damaged Vsevolod Bobrov. I would advice caution as so far they been two of four on such claims, given nature of AshM not surprising.

https://twitter.com/ukrainenewslive/sta ... -k2P_lUYiA

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 May 2022 01:12

Supposedly the best of the UkrA troops are here - if true, they should be NATO trained for 8 years

https://twitter.com/AggregateOsint/stat ... 8203011074

#Russian troops have entered the outskirts of #Severodonetsk on the NW border of the city from the Vojevodivka direction. #Ukraine is fighting back in street battles as the Battle of #Severodonetsk begins.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 May 2022 04:09

None other than David Deptula tweeting:

https://twitter.com/Deptula_David/statu ... 3622206464

Does the West Want Ukraine to Win or Not?

Does the West Want Ukraine to Win or Not?

The relative trickle of advanced weapons to Kyiv suggests Western leaders would be fine with a stalemate.