Russian-Ukranian War: Geopolitical Fallout

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 18 Sep 2022 13:58

Ukrainian caught in Germany selling US gifted stinger missile https://t.me/Slavyangrad/8858

kit · Post by **kit** » 18 Sep 2022 14:27

IndraD wrote:
sohamn wrote:Modi gave a public rebuke to Putin. I have never heard him talking like this to any leader ever especially in front of media.

One of the reasons could be that Russia stopped selling highly discounted oil to India. I think Putin overplayed his hand very bad.
IMHO Modi's statement was neutral and west media was waiting to spin it
btw Russia is selling even more discount on oil to India https://qz.com/russia-is-offering-india ... 1849523766

petrol and diesel prices in India is just about 2/3 of that in UK

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 18 Sep 2022 16:01

how is Rs 92 (diesel price in India/litre) 2/3rd of Rs 165 (diesel price in UK/litre) ? This after diesel prices have fallen in UK, it was > £1.9/l not long ago,how about comparing inflation in 2 countries as well to complete the picture?

https://www.goodreturns.in/diesel-price.html

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/fuel-watch/

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 18 Sep 2022 22:12

Mutterings of tactical nuclear weapon, Biden warns Russia not to think of it (even) Russia will become pariah, also rumours on SM of an imminent nuclear test by Russia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62936643

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 18 Sep 2022 22:55

IndraD wrote:Mutterings of tactical nuclear weapon, Biden warns Russia not to think of it (even) Russia will become pariah, also rumours on SM of an imminent nuclear test by Russia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62936643

I wonder which country is the only one to use nuclear weapons in conflict…

In any case the situation currently is not due enough for Russia to warrant their usage. However, that is exactly what Nato wants I think so they can further ostracise Russia. I suspect they will supply more long range missiles that will enable Ukraine to strike deeper into Russia. Russia’s red lines will be crossed and we are bound to have a crisis in the near future.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 18 Sep 2022 23:28

this time also bogey of N raised by Biden/US. Not Russia

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 19 Sep 2022 01:24

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 288223.cms
Discounted Russia crude gives India Rs 35,000 crore gain

To place issues in perspective, refiners purchase oil and never the federal government. However cheaper oil has a optimistic influence on macroeconomic parameters of the financial system. They hold prices down, the present account deficit in test by reducing the import invoice and decreasing greenback demand. The federal government’s subsidy invoice additionally comes down, leaving cash for social welfare and infrastructure.
That is the second time that cut price searching within the international oil market has saved India cash. In 2020, when oil costs crashed because the pandemic shut down the world, the federal government crammed up strategic reserves and refiners saved oil in ships to avoid wasting Rs 25,000 crore when costs rose later, first reported by TOI on Might 5 that 12 months.
The stream of Russian oil to India continues as merchants work round sanctions-related points in delivery, insurance coverage, and banking to maintain shipments enticing sufficient for patrons.

kit · Post by **kit** » 19 Sep 2022 09:57

IndraD wrote:Ukrainian caught in Germany selling US gifted stinger missile https://t.me/Slavyangrad/8858

i had posted my concern about the deluge of arms delivery into Ukraine going to all sorts of countries and cartels and criminal organisations not to mention terrorists right from the beginning but was told there would be "safeguards" !!.. very soon we will see commercial planes blown out of the sky by terrorists/ radical groups and militia. Air travel is going to be unsafe.

the greed of a few

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 19 Sep 2022 14:08

Putin in a recent speech was saying huge tracts of fertile Ukr land is actually owned by American companies who obviously have a right to its produce and to sell it for profit.

I have no way of verifying this, but given its not Biden or some EU leader saying it, it could be at least 50% true. May be Biden family's business interests in Ukraine and Pelosi's stock portfolio may have a clue.

Which also explains the west's lamenting for the 3rd world starving poor to get the grain shipments unblocked, of which only a tiny portion is going to Africa or poor ME countries.

Of course these lands are all in the east and south, which is what Putin has occupied, are Russophone and they can never be part of Ukra-een again. One more factor why the west will not give up so easily and let a negotiated peace deal happen.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 20 Sep 2022 02:22

U.S. adds Iran cargo planes flying to Russia to export violation list https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-add ... 022-09-19/

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 20 Sep 2022 03:42

IndraD wrote:U.S. adds Iran cargo planes flying to Russia to export violation list https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-add ... 022-09-19/

That's interesting. I would have expected them to use russian cargo planes. Probably they expected the sanctions either way.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Sep 2022 18:42

If you need any humor in your life, the US State Dept has provided it free of cost

https://twitter.com/USAHindiMein

The account is managed by a Khan in London

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Sep 2022 19:25

Two Turkish banks have reversed decisions to deal with Russian Mir credit cards, under threats of secondary sanctions from the West on those Turkish banks that deal with Russian Mir

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Sep 2022 20:16

How *MANY* of these "many, many" lessons have the services learnt?

Have they learnt the most *Important* lesson?

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... _aIL_C3eow ---> "There are many, many lessons from the war in Ukraine," Indian Navy Chief.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 20 Sep 2022 20:57

unverified reports of Chinese troops entering Ukraine from Russia https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status ... R12Vy4vXUQ

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Sep 2022 21:45

Rakesh wrote:How *MANY* of these "many, many" lessons have the services learnt?

Have they learnt the most *Important* lesson?

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... _aIL_C3eow ---> "There are many, many lessons from the war in Ukraine," Indian Navy Chief.

Given the fact that P75I is still ongoing. I don't think so.

The movie has to be for the P76. Time to be bold and ambitious.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 20 Sep 2022 21:47

IndraD wrote:unverified reports of Chinese troops entering Ukraine from Russia https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status ... R12Vy4vXUQ

This is fake news.

PRC is not going to fight Russia's war. Given that Russia has not fully mobilised. It makes no sense for Russians to invite PRC men to fight the war.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 20 Sep 2022 22:21

Putin speech in a few hours. Possible talk of mobilization.
Duma has also ratified some language on looting and desertion during wartime. maybe possible precursor to war declaration

Referendums organized by Russia are an insult to the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity - White House

Sure Kosovo, Iraq , Syria and yemen is fine

Joe Biden on September 21 will call on the world community from the rostrum of the UN General Assembly to resist Russia's special military operation in Ukraine - US presidential aide Sullivan

Lol demented brandon

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 20 Sep 2022 23:43

Rakesh wrote:How *MANY* of these "many, many" lessons have the services learnt?

Have they learnt the most *Important* lesson?

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... _aIL_C3eow ---> "There are many, many lessons from the war in Ukraine," Indian Navy Chief.

I think the most important lesson is don't squander precious, limited defense funds on big, expensive capitol warships which you lack the capacity to defend. Instead, pour said funds and resources into the bedrock of your forces. Make sure your troops have night vision, body armor, secure comms, drones, etc BEFORE you blow tens of billions on fancy ships and other big, juicy targets that will never actually see combat (or if they do, they end up at the bottom of the ocean like the Moskva).

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Sep 2022 13:27

Putin Declares Expansion of War Effort

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia accelerated his war effort in Ukraine on Wednesday, announcing a new mobilization campaign that would mean calling up roughly 300,000 additional soldiers at a time when his troops have suffered humiliating losses on the battlefield.

In a rare videotaped address to the nation, Mr. Putin stopped short of declaring a full, national draft but instead called for a “partial mobilization” of people with military experience. He said that Russia’s goals in Ukraine had not changed and that the move was “necessary and urgent” because the West had “crossed all lines” by providing sophisticated weapons to Ukraine.

In a subsequent speech, Russia’s defense minister, Sergei Shoigu, put the number of new call-ups at 300,000 people, all of them with some military experience. He said that students would not be called up to fight and that conscripts would not be sent to the “special operation zone,” the way the Kremlin refers to the war.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Sep 2022 17:47

US in talks with India about rethinking reliance on Russian arms and energy
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/india/in ... index.html
21 Sept 2022

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Sep 2022 19:58

U.S. Senators Propose Secondary Sanctions On Russian Oil

Posted on September 21, 2022 by Yves Smith

Yves here. The US so far has largely held back from “secondary sanctions,” as in trying to impose US sanctions on countries that deal with Russia in ways that would be sanctions violations if done by US persons. China has already said, loudly, that the US has no business interfering in its relations with Russia, so I’d expect a very aggressive response if this plan went anywhere.

On top of that, if the idea is to try to bar other countries from buying Russian oil, the example of Iran says that’s not been very successful. China imports oil from Iran and Japan did through 2019 thanks to a US sanctions waiver. If the US were to punish Chinese banks that facilitated oil trade with Russia by cutting off their access to dollar clearing banks like JP Morgan, by kicking them out of Swift, or cancelling US licenses, odds are good it would wind up being yet another backfire. But China and Russia were already planning to have China pay for Russian oil in renminbi and roubles, which would put it outside US payment mechanisms and therefore ability to see the activity.

Nevertheless, this proposal may get more traction once the “liberated” territories have set dates for referenda.

By Julianne Geiger, a veteran editor, writer and researcher for Oilprice.com. Originally published at OilPrice

U.S. senators have put forward legislation that would impose secondary sanctions on Russian crude oil, Reuters said on Tuesday, in a move that could provoke two of Russia’s largest oil importers, China and India.

Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen and Republican Senator Pat Toomey—two members of the Senate Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee—have implored the Biden Administration to enact secondary sanctions on Russia’s crude oil and crude oil products. If passed, the legislation would target banks and other financial institutions, insurers, and brokers of Russian oil that exceed a specific price cap, which the senators suggest should be imposed no later than March 2023.

Targeting banks, the two senators said, would make it more difficult for Russia to evade the price cap by making deals with countries that are not a party to the cap discussed earlier this month, outside the G7.

The administration requires “new authority from Congress” to choke off Russia’s oil revenues, a statement from Van Hollen reads.

The ultimate goal of the legislation is to make it harder for buyers to circumvent the price cap, designed to restrict Russia’s revenue stream from the sale of oil and oil products, which it would then use to fund its activities in Ukraine.

“I promise to work with Senator Van Hollen to get this bill enacted as soon as possible so that Russia can no longer profit from the oil sales funding its war in Ukraine,” Toomey said at a Committee meeting on Tuesday, according to Reuters.

The Committee also believes that a price cap would “reduce the potential for price spikes in the market,” Elizabeth Rosenberg, Treasury Assistant Secretary for Terrorist Financing and Financial Crimes, said at the Committee meeting.

Rosenberg also indicated that guidelines are coming that would address the issue of blending Russian crude with crude from other sources to skirt those sanctions.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 21 Sep 2022 20:02

"You are with us or we'll turn you against us"
A very wise strategy at play here.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 21 Sep 2022 21:31

A good friend of mine, president of a wealth management company in Canada, earlier today requested an opinion on the general situation post-Ukraine, and with an emphasis on whether Turkey will join the SCO. This is what I wrote to him in a "stream of thought" ramble, but some of you might find it worthwhile...

OK here goes (will be a long read):

There are several angles to this. But bottom line is it is a near certainty that Turkey will join the SCO - unless the price to pay for it is more than it can bear. This would mean expulsion from NATO, and relevant US-EU sanctions as a consequence of his co-operation with Russia. But nothing more. "The West" as it is known (The Anglosphere or CANZAUKUS + Continental EU states) has overplayed its hand already. I give it about an 80% chance, as things stand, that Turkey will join the SCO. It is already a dialog partner, and Erdogandu (as I like to call him) has been loudly hinting at eventual partnership. For the moment, it is a trial balloon to see how NATO partners, and the US respond.

From the global perspective, Erdogan has positioned himself as something of a statesman - playing all sides, successfully so far. This is partly because of where Turkey is located, his personal experience with leadership and interaction with the leaders involved, and his own vision of Turkey as an Ottoman Empire redux. While he is helping "ease" the Ukraine situation, he is simultaneously helping Azerbaijan stick it to Armenia. The US is using him here because Armenia is an ally of Russia. In fact, the Azeri attack on Armenia would not have happened without a nod from the US - as part of its strategy to unbalance and extend Russia, something which began to be implemented around 2013, and was described in RAND reports a few years ago. It is also using Turkey's services off and on in Syria to keep the Syrian regime of Bashar Al Assad off balance. Turkey is sucking up occasionally to Russia too in that theatre.

The Turks know that at this stage going for SCO full membership is going to essentially threaten its entire relationship with NATO, etc. However, like most others it has probably made the calculation, rightly, that NATO is on the downward trend and the EU is also probably done for - not that it ever believed it had a chance to get into the latter anyways. Which it didn't.

The calculation to join SCO is primarily because Turkey seems to have calculated that the US has made an irrecoverable mistake by enforcing sanctions on Russia. Though to those living in the "The West" this may seem ridiculous given the newsmedia (I watch the mainstream regularly to get an idea), the fact of the matter is Putin did not wake up on Feb. 24th and decide to wage war on Ukraine. It has been building up since 2008, I myself warned of it in 2015 in an article, and more than enough US figures cautioned Washington against it - essentially, putting missiles in Ukraine, from where at the nearest point the distance to Moscow is around the same as from New York to Boston.

Recall that the US does not allow anyone, even its EU allies to station their forces or put missiles in the entire Western Hemisphere. Furthermore, they have been writing for some time about plans to cut up Russia into parts and then deal with the component states. None of this is new. It is just that no one paid attention to it except the Russians. The result was the invasion of Ukraine. Instead of recognising what had happened, these idiots decided to shoot themselves in the nuts - imposing sanctions on Russia. Common sense would tell you that if sanctions don't work against Iran, North Korea (both have their regimes intact for couple of decades now), that it won't work against the biggest source of raw materials on the planet. Somehow the US persuaded themselves that it would, and didn't give a crap about how that would impact the EU.

And that is where the great schism is emerging. The EU countries (continental, i.e. not including Britain) have realised that they have been made the patsies on this one, totally screwed in fact, by the US policy. The US did not care to consider the impact that sanctions (which the EU faithfully imposed) would have on themselves. Public opinion of the Americans were never that great to begin with in the EU. Now it is totally in the crapper. But, because of legal commitments via NATO, they have to two the line. And they will, until governments are kicked out one by one. This has already begun.

Turkey has insulated itself from all this, having seen what was coming - as have China/India obviously, and most of the Asian states. The EU had in fact done the right thing by getting Russian gas at subsidised prices (Germany did not become a major exporter with competitive prices - over $1 trillion in exports - by some force of magic. Subsidised Russian fuel had a lot to do with it) and American security at subsidised prices too. Now they are being forced to take American gas at market prices. So competitivity is down the tubes. My own company has already increased prices by 25% and another 8% in January is being announced. Electricity prices have doubled. My son's 1-bed apartment with one occupant got a bill of 500 euros, and this is of course widespread.

This is why, although the US and its allies speak of "world sanctions" against Putin, etc., it is bullshit mainly intended to fool their own people. The ones, sadly, at the receiving end of this are the people of the EU. The US will be fine & Canada will be fine after some initial headaches.

Russia so far is doing fine as well, though I expect the impact to hit it perhaps in 2023-24 if the war continues. Bottom line is this: there is no way Russia is going down without nuclear war, in which case everyone goes down. The key players know it. So what has actually happened, as mentioned before, was the US-EU have shot themselves in the nuts. None of this would have happened if Ukraine was denied NATO membership. Hubris in the US.

Turkey has sensed this, and therefore applying for what it thinks is the next best bet: SCO. It is 100% sure that if Ankara applies (may already have) then it will be accepted, because that will be a kick in the rear for NATO. The only thing holding back membership is Turkey's own final decision, so to speak. Dollar trades are declining globally as you probably know. India alone has started trade in local currencies with Russia, Iran, etc., and it is about to start the same with Saudi Arabia for oil purchases, etc.

The "world order" that we knew since our births is disintegrating bro, thanks to the stupidity of the current ruling clique in the US. It seems to me that there has been a system hijack in the US and the people who are taking decisions are not necessarily acting in the American strategic interest. Consider this: what if after the invasion, the US had said - we will not sanction Russia immediately, but will incrementally apply sanctions across a range of materials - thus giving allies enough time to adjust to new realities, and at the same time squeezing Russia incrementally boa constrictor style. Far more effective. But they didn't do that. Why not? Surely, American strategists knew that approach would be far less damaging to itself and would leave room for negotiations, and keep the EU public on board. Now it seems to have lost the EU public and part of its own.

Ground reality as I see it. Bottom line, Turkey is almost certain to join the SCO. The decision is entirely its own. I give it 80% probability.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 21 Sep 2022 22:02

If these territories accede to Russia in a referendum/vote, then by extension, any assault upon them is an attack upon Russia. The defence of these realms opens up a complete Pandora's box of Russian responses, including a nuclear one as they have clearly warned ie, an assault upon Mother Russia can invite a nuclear response. That's why you have this current bout of screaming as once such an event occurs, then where will the ukrainians go?

https://www.reuters.com/article/russia- ... NKCN1GE1P4

May you live in interesting times!

bala · Post by **bala** » 21 Sep 2022 23:54

You don't poke a bear and expect a result less than referendum/annexation. Ukr treated the Russian people in the eastern sector of Ukr very badly and reneged on their commitments. Teaming with Nato put the final stake into their chest. There are consequences for your own action. The Eurotards are also at the receiving end of this treatment.

Bottomline: if you try a wrestling contest with any of the big guys, the results are going to be detrimental. Any school kid will tell you this.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 22 Sep 2022 00:46

. Faster the Ukrainians realize that they will be alone to face such a situation, the better for them.
Kyiv urges west to spell out how it would respond to Russian nuclear strike

Ukrainian officials have called on world leaders to issue a firm warning to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, making it clear that any attempt to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine would result in catastrophic consequences for Russia.

“The other nuclear states need to say very firmly that as soon as Russia even thinks of carrying out nuclear strikes on foreign territory – in this case the territory of Ukraine – there will be swift retaliatory nuclear strikes to destroy the nuclear launch sites in Russia,” said Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior aide to Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in an interview at the presidential administration in Kyiv.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 22 Sep 2022 01:11

if you think Russia is some kind of crazy country that is going to respond with a nuclear strike on a conventional military the you are wrong. Russia knows that a nuclear strike will alienate itself with everyone and make it the most pariah country. Russia will mobilize and try to win it conventionally.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 22 Sep 2022 01:28

yup the only country that has divine right to use newclear detergent is great USofA. Rest cannot, the world will be alienated and they will come last in the Pew Survey of most loved nation throughout. I think Putin will rather allow Russia to disintegrate and hang himself.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Sep 2022 09:00

Looks like dudes like Xi are expecting UKR to wind down and the focus moves to China.

Xi Jinping urges China's armed forces to focus on prepping for wars

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 22 Sep 2022 14:08

fanne wrote:yup the only country that has divine right to use newclear detergent is great USofA. Rest cannot, the world will be alienated and they will come last in the Pew Survey of most loved nation throughout. I think Putin will rather allow Russia to disintegrate and hang himself.

Also the only country who has a divine right to destroy three innocent countries and not TSP after 3000 civilians were killed.
Also has the divine right where the govt can insert itself into social media & payment companies and remove/ delete negative info abt themselves. Any other pleb country tries that and the govt is orange revolutionized.
Also is the only country which gets to extradite who it considers criminals [under US laws] from countries where it has no jurisdiction but if any country tries the same with a US citzen, then whole media /govt goes against the country

for ex, the WNBA star who was carrying drugs, a few years ago she would have been thrown in prison and keys dumped down a well if she was caught with drugs on a airplane, but sure the moral US does not do the same . I have heard of people stuck in secondary inspection for days. hypocrites.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 22 Sep 2022 23:30

The weird thing is that WNBA person would be in federal prison for the same offense in US today.

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 23 Sep 2022 13:54

Putin abandoned: Men scramble to flee Russia following conscription

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Sep 2022 14:25

Same would happen in any western country if such a mobilisation was announced...
Ex-President Trump ducked the draft, current President Biden didn't serve either.
These images make good anti Russian propaganda for the west.

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 23 Sep 2022 18:39

Cyrano wrote:Same would happen in any western country if such a mobilisation was announced...
Ex-President Trump ducked the draft, current President Biden didn't serve either.
These images make good anti Russian propaganda for the west.

Yes it would except hasn't the narrative of most people on this thread being that Russians are super patriotic and willing to die for their country except doesn't appear to be the case. The UKR's are going to take back their whole country including Crimea.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Sep 2022 19:39

Or perhaps Putin is not the totalitarian ruler that the west accuses him of being.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 23 Sep 2022 22:56

west showing cars somewhere with no russian rebuttal possible cos they have been muted and we are falling over each other?
so far
Putin is reported to have
-cancer
-mentally unwell
-coup
-generals don't listen to him
-has no more missiles left
-has no ammo left
-has 3 months of life left etc etc

and we are still buying these propagandus
(btw massive rally in moscow in favour of war tday doesn't suit narrative in west I believe)

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Sep 2022 23:36

JE Menon wrote:
OK here goes (will be a long read):

cut-paste into a Word doc. ctrl-a to select the entire doc, then right-click and select "read aloud"

Enjoy

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Sep 2022 23:55

IndraD wrote:west showing cars somewhere with no russian rebuttal possible cos they have been muted and we are falling over each other?
so far
Putin is reported to have
-cancer
-mentally unwell
-coup
-generals don't listen to him
-has no more missiles left
-has no ammo left
-has 3 months of life left etc etc

and we are still buying these propagandus
(btw massive rally in moscow in favour of war tday doesn't suit narrative in west I believe)

Actually, it is worse:

- Aug 23/24, 2022, Liz Truss says she is willing to press the nuclear button
- Mid Feb, 2022, at the Munich Security Council, Elensky wanted nuclear weapons
- APril, Polish guy Kaczynski, said Nuclear bombs should be on Polish soil
- June, 2022, Radosław Sikorski said Poland should get nuclear weapons

And, WE ALL just let all that slide

Enjoy any nukes that are used by anyone

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 24 Sep 2022 04:24

rajkumar wrote:Putin abandoned: Men scramble to flee Russia following conscription

What's crazy is people believing UK media. That's the hilarious part. There was a rush when americans had to run to canada border. I am sure we had britshiters run away to the US or Caribbean or Aus when the iraq summons happened

This video says it is from Russia - Georgia border . here is the official news from Georgia

https://agenda.ge/en/news/2022/3658

Agenda.ge, 22 Sep 2022 - 18:16, Tbilisi,Georgia

Georgia’s revenue service on Thursday rejected TV reports that alleged a drastic increase in the number of individuals crossing the country’s northern border from Russia over the past days by saying there was “no sharp difference” observed in the figures over the past 10 days
...

In its comments rejecting the claims, the revenue service urged domestic media outlets to "refrain from releasing false and unverified information".
.

The same exact news was retracted from the Russia - FInland border and telegraph and other liars had to retract their news article. Sigh..