Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

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Pratyush
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

If the Minsk 2 was actually implemented by the Ukrainian side.

This war could have been avoided.

However, by not implementing the accord, the war had become inevitable.

If the Russians get serious, they have the power to overwhelm the Ukrainians.

NATO efforts, in the absence of direct military action will not have any effect on the outcome.
hgupta
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by hgupta »

Pratyush wrote:
If the Russians get serious, they have the power to overwhelm the Ukrainians.

NATO efforts, in the absence of direct military action will not have any effect on the outcome.
I think they will once they have shaped the battlefield to their liking. They have to be careful with their use of manpower. Russia is not the USSR of yesterdayyear where they can simply shove men into the meatgrinder and hope for the best. Russian leaders know that the Russian populace will not sit still for that kind of conflict. They will tolerate casualties but only with a real workable plan and strategy and a path for a clear outcome.
NRao
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Cyrano wrote:I'd find it hard to believe that Russia didn't realise this for over 8 years... perhaps NATO walked into Russia's trap thinking they have a strong Ukraine to use as a battering ram against Russia and are discovering that nothing has gone as planned...
Yes, NATO did walk into a (very?) well-prepared trap.

It is extremely helpful to follow Putin's speeches. They are not just well-spoken to, they have great nuggets. Putin did address this aspect within the past week - I think when he addressed the mothers of war or some group of mothers.

Russia had the option of doing exactly what she is doing today in 2014 - and did not. Because? Russia was not prepared. People are speculating about what that meant. Most likely that Russia did not have a great economy then and most of all was not ready to fight an all-spectral war, which Russia is doing brilliantly today (per many, including the Guardian!!).

There is also a day-old vid on the Judging Freedom channel, where Scott Ritter says that his contacts within the Kremlin have told him that Russia is very confident that they can do as they please **within** Ukraine. And that the only Russian concern is overt NATO ops within Ukraine - which Russia would like to avoid, BUT is fully aware of a red-line for NATO.

Having said that, Putin did say that the only nation with the ability to guarantee Ukrainian sovereignty is Russia!! Figure that out.
Last edited by NRao on 09 Dec 2022 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
gakakkad
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by gakakkad »

if the russians get serious they ll probably overwhelm the NATO. Per doug mcgregor US army is in a bad shape with wokeism and very high rates of obesity and substance abuse. I believe him as I ve worked treated current servicemen in hospital who were in worse shape then I am. If they were thrown in this theater they would have fared worse than the initial real Ukrainian professional troops who now seemed to have perished completely.

The videos of the Ukranian troops that DNIvas posted are horrifying.

One of the soldiers said that the commanders threatened them with jail except people don't reach jail. corroborating them with the video of ukrainian troops executing there own soldiers it means that they ll die any way.

One suggestions for the russians would be extensive psy ops campaign in that area asking UKrs to surrender in return for chow and amnesty. I have a feeling that could work wonders . and save them the ammo that would have been used for wasting them.
RoyG
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by RoyG »

gakakkad wrote:if the russians get serious they ll probably overwhelm the NATO. Per doug mcgregor US army is in a bad shape with wokeism and very high rates of obesity and substance abuse. I believe him as I ve worked treated current servicemen in hospital who were in worse shape then I am. If they were thrown in this theater they would have fared worse than the initial real Ukrainian professional troops who now seemed to have perished completely.

The videos of the Ukranian troops that DNIvas posted are horrifying.

One of the soldiers said that the commanders threatened them with jail except people don't reach jail. corroborating them with the video of ukrainian troops executing there own soldiers it means that they ll die any way.

One suggestions for the russians would be extensive psy ops campaign in that area asking UKrs to surrender in return for chow and amnesty. I have a feeling that could work wonders . and save them the ammo that would have been used for wasting them.
The US is losing because it's overextended. It has been locked in continuous war for 21 years. The Russians, Chinese, and other players simply adopted the strategy of what I call light a thousand fires. When the US is busy firefighting one fire somebody else lights another fire somewhere else. Light enough and the US gets overwhelmed, fatigues, and burns. Simple.

Iraq they lost.
Afghanistan they lost.
Syria they lost.
Now Ukraine they will lose soon.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Inside Bakhmut: The strange and senseless death trap draining Ukraine's tired army (article full of whine very few military details)
Russian commanders are making creeping gains with the aid of huge artillery support, even as they have lost significant ground around Kharkiv and Kherson. Yet the very intensity of the Russian offensive and the steep casualties borne by the defenders under relentless barrages have also made it totemic for Ukrainian forces

Whatever Russia's calculations, the battle is sucking in troops and material from both sides, as Ukraine's international allies race to keep it supplied with weapons to resist the onslaught.

Ukrainian commanders say Russian losses in the area have been as high as 100 to 300 on some days. Ukrainian forces themselves are paying a high price to hold the city, however, in the face of sometimes overwhelming artillery.

“For every artillery piece we have, they have nine,” said one soldier.

Footage from inside Ukrainian field hospitals shows surgeons trying to stabilise on a steady stream of badly wounded soldiers.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... -ukraines/
NRao
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

@RoyG,

It is never as easy as that. "US" itself has many, many factions.

The war in Ukraine philosophically/politically is led by Nuland (specifically) and her husband's think-tank groups. You replace her, or Blinken, and things will change dramatically. The war effort in Ukraine is led by NATO. A "Ukrainian" loss will be a NATO loss - this was explicitly stated by the EC leadership. In fact, a Ukrainian loss could even mean the end of the EC/EU (which is what I expect).

BTW, in the past couple of days, Western "analysts" have moved to: Russia is expecting unconditional surrender by UKR. Read NATO
ernest
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ernest »

Pratyush wrote:If the Minsk 2 was actually implemented by the Ukrainian side.

This war could have been avoided.

However, by not implementing the accord, the war had become inevitable.

If the Russians get serious, they have the power to overwhelm the Ukrainians.

NATO efforts, in the absence of direct military action will not have any effect on the outcome.
Can some member provide a list of the top violations of the Minsk accords by Ukraine. I am looking on the internet and only getting more confused. Can someone help filter key points from the propaganda

Thanks
Cyrano
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

I don't think Ukraine respected any of it!
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Lisa »

From my post of 26 Mar 2022

"Second - A report from the OSCE, the monitors of the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine 16th October 2021

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/os ... 16-october

Click on the linked PDF, Page 3 paragraph 3 in particular,

"Following agreement reached at the meeting of the Trilateral Contact Group (TCG) on 22 July
2020 regarding Measures to strengthen the ceasefire, from 00:01 on 27 July 2020 until the end
of the reporting period, the SMM has recorded at least 64,923 ceasefire violations in both
Donetsk and Luhansk regions (including 18,060 explosions, 13,091 projectiles in flight,
288 muzzle flashes, 263 illumination flares and at least 33,221 bursts and shots)."

Think about this carefully, 65,000 violations in ballpark 14 months. I do not think that this even happens on the LOC (I may be wrong) but the Russians have NO CAUSE OR REASON to react. Really!

I remain not surprised but almost shocked my how many poster have swallowed the western narrative completely without any real understanding of the actual situation or the bare facts at hand. One here spoke of Zelenskyy's democratic credentials but forgot that the Indian Prime Minister holds the LARGEST democratic franchise in the world and not ONE western democracy has come to his side despite some tens of thousands murdered in Kashmir."
RoyG
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by RoyG »

NRao wrote:@RoyG,

It is never as easy as that. "US" itself has many, many factions.

The war in Ukraine philosophically/politically is led by Nuland (specifically) and her husband's think-tank groups. You replace her, or Blinken, and things will change dramatically. The war effort in Ukraine is led by NATO. A "Ukrainian" loss will be a NATO loss - this was explicitly stated by the EC leadership. In fact, a Ukrainian loss could even mean the end of the EC/EU (which is what I expect).

BTW, in the past couple of days, Western "analysts" have moved to: Russia is expecting unconditional surrender by UKR. Read NATO
When I refer to US I refer to collective collusive interest. There is no NATO without US. The US didn't learn from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, or even Vietnam. You rarely will win a war thousands of miles away from your shore in a land which is directly adjacent to a powerful foe for the simple reason that their force projection will be stronger at a fraction of the cost.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

NRao wrote: The war in Ukraine philosophically/politically is led by Nuland (specifically) and her husband's think-tank groups. You replace her, or Blinken, and things will change dramatically.
I can say with confidence that most Americans regret the senseless war. A true patriotic American is certainly not on the side of Nuland & Company or the bought out media chorus. The Pentagon has a huge population of folks opposed to machinations of Dumbocrats driving the agenda. Most Republicans are not with the program, but for camera sake, say, "I oppose Putin" and overtly signal they are not for Biden. There are many who are vocally opposed like Scott Ritter and Col McGregor. In summary in the US, majority population are not for Biden's war but in Russia most people agree with Putin. However, both populace want a quick end to the war and a settlement.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

ernest wrote:
Pratyush wrote:If the Minsk 2 was actually implemented by the Ukrainian side.

This war could have been avoided.

However, by not implementing the accord, the war had become inevitable.

If the Russians get serious, they have the power to overwhelm the Ukrainians.

NATO efforts, in the absence of direct military action will not have any effect on the outcome.
Can some member provide a list of the top violations of the Minsk accords by Ukraine. I am looking on the internet and only getting more confused. Can someone help filter key points from the propaganda

Thanks
These are the steps
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2020/05/mi ... -agreement
Image
Heavy weapons are supposed to be pulled back , followed by autonomy to be passed in Ukr parliment. The primary two steps never happened and thus none of the consequent steps got implemented.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Roop »

Cyrano wrote:Of all western rags, Newsweek publishes this:

https://www.newsweek.com/lessons-us-civ ... on-1764992
That Newsweek article is astonishing for the way it is willing to publish facts that would not normally be welcome to a Western audience / reader. Usually, what I expect from western "news sources" is lies, disinformation and propaganda; but this article could almost have been written by Scott Ritter or Doug MacGregor. 8)
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Roop »

RoyG wrote:The US is losing because it's overextended. It has been locked in continuous war for 21 years. ...

Iraq they lost.
Afghanistan they lost.
Syria they lost.
Now Ukraine they will lose soon.
I would say the US is losing because of its own unmitigated hubris. It was hubris that caused them to think they were invincible, undefeatable, "the indispensable power", so far superior to mere mortals, etc. It was hubris that caused them to overextend themselves, as you point out in your post.

I see people on this thread pleading that "there are sensible Americans", "most Americans oppose this war" etc. Well, the part about "most Americans oppose" is a highly dubious claim, IMO. It may or may not be true; but if it is true, why are policies that "most Americans oppose" still in effect? And have been in effect for over 2 decades. America claims to be a democracy, why can't "most Americans" speak up and stop the wars? What's the matter, cat got their tongues?

Going forward, the only thing that will ensure that this bullsh!t isn't repeated ad infinitum into the future is a clear and obvious military defeat for NATO in Ukraine. They must not just be defeated, but must be seen to be defeated. The problem is, of course, that their suicidal hubris is such that they may be willing to nuke Russia in that case. The neocons believe that Russia is so weak (and Uncle Sam so strong) that the Russians would be afraid to respond to a US nuke first strike.
Pratyush
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

ernest wrote:
Can some member provide a list of the top violations of the Minsk accords by Ukraine. I am looking on the internet and only getting more confused. Can someone help filter key points from the propaganda

Thanks
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-sena ... ey-graham/

JANUARY 2, 2017 6:20 PM CET

From the article.
Your fight is our fight,” Graham said during the visit on Saturday alongside President Petro Poroshenko. “2017 will be the year of offense,” he continued. “All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia. Enough of a Russian aggression. It is time for them to pay a heavier price. Our fight is not with the Russian people but with Putin. Our promise to you is to take your cause to Washington, inform the American people of your bravery and make the case against Putin to the world.
It's quite clear that Ukraine backed by the US had no intention of honouring the Minsk accords.

Even today they think that they can win.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Haresh wrote:
Deans wrote:There is discussion in the Russian media as to why nuclear capable strategic bombers are kept in the open and not in hardened shelters.

The aircraft is huge. Its apparently not possible to build hangars with the roof as strong as the walls, if the hangar size is very large. If the drone
strike causes the roof to collapse, the damage would be greater than what actually happened. (I have seen the hangar of the P8-I in Goa, it has
a thin roof that looks like offering only weather protection).
Would it not be possible to place a wire mesh net over the aircraft, like the old style torpedo nets ?
Two-three layers, this would stop a drone from impacting, or detonating to close. just curious.
The attack at the first base hit a fuel truck fueling a aircraft and caused partial damage to a Tu-22. At the second base, the drone exploded a
short distance away, damaged a Tu-95 and killed 3 ground crew. I don't think in either case, a protective net would have reduced the damage.

One point being made in Russian media is that this is an attack on the nuclear forces of Russia. As per Russian nuclear doctrine, attacking a nuclear weapons platform can result in Russia using nuclear weapons against the attacker.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

ernest wrote: Can some member provide a list of the top violations of the Minsk accords by Ukraine. I am looking on the internet and only getting more confused. Can someone help filter key points from the propaganda

Thanks
There were no significant violations of the Minsk accord, apart from cross border firing, which grew to war like levels in Feb 2022.
The point of Minsk-2 (as both President Poroshenko and Angels Merkel admitted) was to give Ukraine time to build up their armed forces with NATO help, so as to retake the Donbass (and perhaps Crimea) by force, in 2022. To that end, in Apr 2021, Zelensky signed a decree making the liberation of Donbass and Crimea the objective of the Ukraine armed forces and started enhanced cooperation with NATO.
ernest
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ernest »

Lisa wrote:From my post of 26 Mar 2022

"Second - A report from the OSCE, the monitors of the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine 16th October 2021

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/os ... 16-october
dnivas wrote:
These are the steps
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2020/05/mi ... -agreement
(img removed in quote)
Heavy weapons are supposed to be pulled back , followed by autonomy to be passed in Ukr parliment. The primary two steps never happened and thus none of the consequent steps got implemented.
Pratyush wrote:
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-sena ... ey-graham/

JANUARY 2, 2017 6:20 PM CET

Deans wrote: There were no significant violations of the Minsk accord, apart from cross border firing, which grew to war like levels in Feb 2022.
The point of Minsk-2 (as both President Poroshenko and Angels Merkel admitted) was to give Ukraine time to build up their armed forces with NATO help, so as to retake the Donbass (and perhaps Crimea) by force, in 2022. To that end, in Apr 2021, Zelensky signed a decree making the liberation of Donbass and Crimea the objective of the Ukraine armed forces and started enhanced cooperation with NATO.

Thank you for replying to my question with your summaries on the violations of Minsk Accords. Made it a lot easier for me to understand.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by vijayk »

I read that pentagon gave green signal to drone attacks inside Russia. True?
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

vijayk wrote:I read that pentagon gave green signal to drone attacks inside Russia. True?
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »


Ukraine claims to have eliminated atleast 200 Russian soldiers in Mariopol, in Himars attack, looks like Russia is too weak militarily or politically, unable to retaliate as of now
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by gakakkad »

^ fog of war. both sides claim to have pulverized the other depending upon what source you look. we ll only know when its over.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

It was Melitopol not Mariupol I think.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Y. Kanan »

RoyG wrote:I see people on this thread pleading that "there are sensible Americans", "most Americans oppose this war" etc. Well, the part about "most Americans oppose" is a highly dubious claim, IMO. It may or may not be true; but if it is true, why are policies that "most Americans oppose" still in effect? And have been in effect for over 2 decades. America claims to be a democracy, why can't "most Americans" speak up and stop the wars? What's the matter, cat got their tongues?
That's absolutely NOT true. The vast majority of Americans support this war, and are increasingly clamoring for stronger intervention. US citizens have spent so many decades watching their superior technology batter helpless foes into submission that they now feel invincible. Vietnam is just a distant memory.

Roop is correct that it will take a lot of US soldiers coming home in bodybags, or an overt threat of nuclear war, to dampen this enthusiasm for war. War is fun when you can just blow up the enemy from a safe distance; it's a videogame! The reality of war must be brought home to the American people.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Y. Kanan »

RoyG wrote:
gakakkad wrote:if the russians get serious they ll probably overwhelm the NATO. Per doug mcgregor US army is in a bad shape with wokeism and very high rates of obesity and substance abuse. I believe him as I ve worked treated current servicemen in hospital who were in worse shape then I am. If they were thrown in this theater they would have fared worse than the initial real Ukrainian professional troops who now seemed to have perished completely.

The videos of the Ukranian troops that DNIvas posted are horrifying.

One of the soldiers said that the commanders threatened them with jail except people don't reach jail. corroborating them with the video of ukrainian troops executing there own soldiers it means that they ll die any way.

One suggestions for the russians would be extensive psy ops campaign in that area asking UKrs to surrender in return for chow and amnesty. I have a feeling that could work wonders . and save them the ammo that would have been used for wasting them.
The US is losing because it's overextended. It has been locked in continuous war for 21 years. The Russians, Chinese, and other players simply adopted the strategy of what I call light a thousand fires. When the US is busy firefighting one fire somebody else lights another fire somewhere else. Light enough and the US gets overwhelmed, fatigues, and burns. Simple.

Iraq they lost.
Afghanistan they lost.
Syria they lost.
Now Ukraine they will lose soon.
Sure, the US "lost", but their military industrial complex won BIG. What's bad for the US taxpayer is often very, very good for the empire.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

A quick note on the US arms to Ukraine. It is a lend/lease program - Ukraine will be in debt in perpetuity.

4 months ago, Andrew Bustamante on a Lex Fridman show said that the UK had paid off their 2nd WW lend/lease debt to the US in 2020!!!!
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by habal »

IndraD wrote:
Ukraine claims to have eliminated atleast 200 Russian soldiers in Mariopol, in Himars attack, looks like Russia is too weak militarily or politically, unable to retaliate as of now
The Russian sources claim that the rockets hit a resort where civilians were around and the attack resulted in death of 10 civilians.

If indeed the rockets had hit a military target and resulted in dozens of casualties then next day morning Kyiv would be have been under attack with several hundred missiles landing on electric & water supply utilities. This has been a pattern since Surovikin took over. Since nothing of that sort happened, this is likely to be a fake news.

In western media sources, Ukraine is always winning because that is how they can sell a war like this to the public (how do you withdraw from war when you are just about to win big). But this big victory was promised months ago as just around the corner.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

The Russian's targeting loop is quite slow and deliberate.

It always takes them a long time to target and strike locations.

It's this pause that gives an opportunity to the west to claim that the Russians are running out of munitions.

After the last set of strikes. The Russians are figuring out what comes next.

Once they are done. You are going to see another body blow to Ukrainian ability to sustain itself.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by chetak »

Some very interesting NATO and also history of the west

why did so many germans rise to the top of the NATO food chain

it would be interesting to know as to what the intentions of the amerikis were


Imagevia@Warranem
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

The specific geographic region being referred to is within the western Germany.

In that area a rehabilitated German officer becoming a NATO commander within his own country is not really that big of a deal.

The same happened in eastern Germany as well.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Aditya_V »

And off course those German officers had the most experience in fighting the Red army and temporarily occupying large parts of the Soviet Union
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Support for Ukraine war has vanished from twitter, when questioned Elon Musk reponded this is due to bot's deletion
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

There is quite a bit of pro Ukrainian propaganda on Quora as well! I remember reading in March that the Zsky regime hired dozens of "digital marketing experts" from the US and has been plugging every SN platform ever since.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Tanaji »

The Ukrainians are openly flying Nazi imagery flags now
Image
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Russia may try to take Kiev again in Feb - March 23
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... n-new-year
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Image
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Tanaji wrote:The Ukrainians are openly flying Nazi imagery flags now
Image
No wonder this fight. The UKR have more in common with Nazis than their brother Slavs.

Are Russians considered a Slavonic race?
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