Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Interesting and pretty

https://twitter.com/islamicworldupd/sta ... 6115373058
A map of the intensity of #NATO and #Swedish reconnaissance flights in Eastern Europe over the past three weeks - from April 28 to May 18

Image
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

John wrote: It seems like there is lack of PGM and sending in a low flying Su-34 with dumb bombs is a bit risky. Probably a good case study for IAF and why we need to build our arsenal of cheap guided munitions and make sure our fleet has adequate amount of pods.
A very different and interesting take on why Russia continues to use dumb bombs:
https://sonar21.com/operation-z-dumb-bo ... to-school/

Explained in more detail here - this tech has been around at least since 2015:
https://thesaker.is/technology-sitrep-h ... -possible/

This is probably a good case study for IAF as well isn't it? And darn more affordable too. We have our own IRNSS covering enough area of interest for us.
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by fanne »

Didn't we use the same in Kargil? meaning, used onboard computer to correctly realize when and what height release dumb bombs' as accurately as smart ones?

There was news that we used dumb bombs with same tech, get all info in the aircraft, and release the dumb bombs in the right envelope.
If nothing else, IAF should be doubling down on these as well.

https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/hist ... #gsc.tab=0

In another mission on the same day Mirages stuck the same target using dumb bombs. This strike proved to be particularly effective causing severe damage to the enemy. It also gave Indian Army Troops watching from nearby a tremendous morale boost. This mission was witnessed by ACM Tipnis, then officer commanding IAF, who was flying backseat in a another Mirage 2000TH. An IAF spokesperson said at a press conference on the 25th that, ‘ New weapons delivery techniques had been developed by Western Air Command, that had proved very accurate and had caused considerable damage to the enemy positions. They had been effective in achieving the desired results.’

On the 4th July a strike with dumb bombs was made for the first time on gun positions and a supply camp at Point 4388 in the Dras Sector. These attacks proved to be highly successful and culminated in a serious degradation of the enemy supply chain. The series of attacks on Point 4388 was an excellent example of how lethal airstrikes combined with good recon detected the enemy plans to shift to alternative supply routes, which were then attacked strangling their supply arteries. Follow up attacks were made by Mirages on the 6th July, four aircraft dropping twenty four dumb bombs and on the 10th July, three aircraft dropping fifteen dumb bombs. These attacks broke the enemy resistance and because of the high casualty rate amongst officers, seriously degraded their command and control leading to the overrunning of their position by the Indian Army.

The two seater, which would be filming the whole affair from behind, would only use the LGB if required to do so. Only 9 LGB’s were dropped during the whole war, 8 by the Mirage fleet and one by a Jaguar.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/memor ... 43825.html

The Mirage 2000 was looked upon as the aircraft that turned the tide of the Kargil Operations. The fighter jet initially armed with the dumb bombs, and later with LGBs, repeatedly struck the heavily defended enemy posts. On June 16, the enemy’s primary supply depot was pin-pointed at Muntho Dhalo in the Batalik sector.

The next day, the Mirage 2000s destroyed the Muntho Dhalo administrative and logistics base of the enemy using the 1,000-pound dumb bombs that were dropped using the onboard Computer Controlled Release Point (CCRP) sighting technique.

“It was a Mirage attack at Muntho Dhalo- using a combination of LGBs and dumb bombs. We estimate there must have been at least 100-150 casualties that very day in the area,” Air Marshal Gogoi recalls with a sense of pride, explaining how the supply chains of the enemy were struck tactically at several locations, leaving them completely isolated in the battlefield.
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Cyrano wrote:
John wrote: It seems like there is lack of PGM and sending in a low flying Su-34 with dumb bombs is a bit risky. Probably a good case study for IAF and why we need to build our arsenal of cheap guided munitions and make sure our fleet has adequate amount of pods.
A very different and interesting take on why Russia continues to use dumb bombs:
https://sonar21.com/operation-z-dumb-bo ... to-school/

Explained in more detail here - this tech has been around at least since 2015:
https://thesaker.is/technology-sitrep-h ... -possible/

This is probably a good case study for IAF as well isn't it? And darn more affordable too. We have our own IRNSS covering enough area of interest for us.
I am all for cheap weapons it make sense to use them against targets that don’t have anti aircraft capability (Azov plant) or Jihadis in Syria. I cannot say how sophisticated Su-34s onboard computers are compared to upg Jaguars or M-2000s we have whether former can achieve the same accuracy as our platforms.

But everywhere else Problem is relative flight path and approach you have to take with dumb bombs which place you within the range of enemy air defenses. A well documented case is when Russians in Mar sent two Su-34 to bomb targets in Kharkiv, one got shot down on approach by a Manpad (Ukr claims both got shot down). I assume Russians have more KAB-500s and pods
to support it they could have dropped those miles away from Kharkiv rather than risking it with bombing run.

Because of heavy losses in strikes such as that no of air strikes with bombs have gone down tremendously (outside of Mariupol) and Russia has choose to use stand off weapons is consensus I am hearing. Ironically both UkrAF and RusAF have turned to using even their fighter AC firing rocket pods in ballistic profile (highly inaccurate) but keeps them out of enemy visual range and below radar Harrison.
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

The Russians are making a virtue out of necessity. They don't have targeting pods and hence have to resort to bomb release by GLOSNASS location and hope the dumb bomb hits the target.
Baikul
BRFite
Posts: 1462
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 06:47

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Baikul »

Wasn’t sure if this link was appropriate for combat tactics or strategy but to the extent it speaks to Ukrainian manpower and perhaps (for some) morale:

One, between 50-100 UA soldiers being killed every day in the Donbas area

Two, an online petition asking to make it possible for men to leave Ukraine, has gathered 25,000 signatures on the website of the President of Ukraine. The petition has been rejected by Zelenskiy.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/22/7347852/
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Is the method employed significantly more accurate than dumb bombs and affordable than superduper guided smart munitions?

Is it a tech India can also develop to use with INRSS and will it fit our platforms and help stretch our tight budgets ?

That's what matters...
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/sta ... 1450039298
Not good.

The Zelensky regime is throwing 32 Battalion Tactical Groups (over 20,000 men) at the Russian armed forces along the Kherson front.

The idea is to force the Russians to pull out men from Donbas and reinforce Kherson.

At this time, I don't think this will go well.

Image

Image
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

NRao wrote:https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/sta ... 1450039298
Not good.

The Zelensky regime is throwing 32 Battalion Tactical Groups (over 20,000 men) at the Russian armed forces along the Kherson front.

The idea is to force the Russians to pull out men from Donbas and reinforce Kherson.

At this time, I don't think this will go well.
How his tweet relevant to what Zelensky said he didn’t say anything about Kherson and somehow the poster is linking it to Kherson. Given that the fact Ukranian don’t use BTG terminology and we cannot compare their formation to that, seems like BS tweet made up for PR for his demographic who understand BTG terminology.

There is no evidence of any offensives in the south, check the NASA firms data. Apart from east, Currently there is fighting north of Kharkiv and Ukranian spec ops/partisan activity around Melitopol. I don’t expect any major Ukrainian offensive till atleast June or even early July.

Russian soldier with Harpoon 2 anti UAV gun

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1528 ... aPP23KLoQA
ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2616
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

Cyrano wrote:Is the method employed significantly more accurate than dumb bombs and affordable than superduper guided smart munitions?

Is it a tech India can also develop to use with INRSS and will it fit our platforms and help stretch our tight budgets ?

That's what matters...
Day and night difference in terms of accuracy on target. That is why the IAF has moved en masse to the Litening Pod. Excerpt of an article by Air Marshal Nambiar of how he as a Mirage 2000 pilot first used Paveway LGBs at Kargil. Cheaper local alternatives such as Sudarshan now available:
At 28 km, I pulsed the laser to designate the target for the first time. The Litening Pod instantly ranged the distance to target. We had by then accelerated to a ground speed of 550 kn (~1000 kmph) and the distance to the release point rapidly reduced. I repeatedly re-designated the target as it became more discernible when we closed in. At the release range, I pressed the trigger and we felt the aircraft jerk upwards as it suddenly shed 600 kg of load. I immediately commenced a hard turn to the left at 4g and started flaring. Monish took over pod steering and pointed the laser directly at the target while I concentrated on the turn and monitored the video image. The Laser was steadily flashing and we waited anxiously for the target to explode thus signalling a successful delivery. The time of flight of an LGB under the delivery conditions that we had dropped it in was under 30 sec, but to us in the cockpit it appeared as an eternity. Our joy knew no bound as the entire video image of the target burst out into a soundless explosion.
How I Bombed Tiger Hill From A Mirage 2000
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by fanne »

there are enough internet links to discredit SPV-24. More research is needed.
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Good vid of Ka-52 released by Russian MOD it shows it purely relying on S-8 rockets fired in ballistic path to avoid Manpads. When used in this way these are more inaccurate than even WW2 Katyush and Interestingly choosing not to use any of it guided missiles which require LOS (and can potentially be shot down by Manpads operating in that area).

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/stat ... Kcs4l0H1jA
Baikul
BRFite
Posts: 1462
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 06:47

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Baikul »

John wrote:^ I have not seen any major changes in Russian tactics or signs of adaption. There is still lack of close air support, lack of infantry to protect advancing armor, still traveling down the main roads in single piles and lack of proper organization & coordination needed to pull off complex maunvers or ops (see river crossing).

Where they have changed is that instead of having offensive operation spread out over all Ukraine it is now focused on around Severodonetsk area. So they can throw more #s inspite of that short coming.
I know this is very late and DeanS ji has already replied. Just wanted to add that all you have to do is take a look at Russian losses then and now. And also Ukrainian commentaries (including Zelenskiy) on their situation.

IMO it’s not a question of Russians adapting or not. It’s a question of them fighting closer to their strategic and operational capabilities which manifest on the ground. This is the same Russian army as before, only now it’s fighting as per its strategic and operational/ tactical strengths where previously it was not.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5383
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Manish_P »

ldev wrote:
Cyrano wrote:Is the method employed significantly more accurate than dumb bombs and affordable than superduper guided smart munitions?

Is it a tech India can also develop to use with INRSS and will it fit our platforms and help stretch our tight budgets ?

That's what matters...
Day and night difference in terms of accuracy on target. That is why the IAF has moved en masse to the Litening Pod.

...
Isn't the first a GPS munition and the second a LGB ?
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2500
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Russia has started designating some of the BTGs in the Donbass as `Reorganised Battalion groups' (RBG).
Either these have been rebuilt from BTGs that took heavy casualties earlier, or they have been redesigned for tasks specific to the Donbass fighting e.g. more infantry (by adding Wagner group contract soldiers), or less anti aircraft support.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

https://twitter.com/AggregateOsint/stat ... 5800139777
#Donetsk Axis - #Russian forces have entered & captured at least half the town of Myronivs'kyi, #Donetsk Oblast. #RUAF have been photographed standing in front of a government building in the city that is halfway into the city.

Image
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

US, Allies 'Intensifying' Effort to Arm Ukraine with New Types of Weapons, Austin Says
A group of 47 nations met Monday and pledged new weapons shipments, including anti-ship missiles, as part of an intensifying effort to arm Ukraine in its nearly three-month-old war with Russia, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said.

The Harpoon missiles from Denmark -- along with attack helicopters, tanks and rocket systems from the Czech Republic -- were among aid announced by 20 nations, Austin said during a Pentagon press briefing. The missiles come as Russian warships are blocking grain exports from Ukraine's Odesa and other ports and threatening a global food crisis.

..............
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Unconfirmed reports of Polish troops joining the Ukrainian reinforcements in the Donbas cauldron, and 2 battalions got immediately cooked by Russian missile strikes.
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Cyrano wrote:Unconfirmed reports of Polish troops joining the Ukrainian reinforcements in the Donbas cauldron, and 2 battalions got immediately cooked by Russian missile strikes.
Don't forget they were lead by 70 yr ex NATO generals \s. Please don't put information you know it's obviously fake..

Right know Russian forces in Lyman

https://twitter.com/girkingirkin/status ... 9Os2SxvN7g

Interestingly on Russian side Igor notes that as well

https://twitter.com/mdmitri91/status/15 ... 9Os2SxvN7g
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Yeah you have a point, I'll avoid posting news bits unless an official channel puts it out.

Who is behind the two handles you cited above? Why are they credible?
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Cyrano wrote:Yeah you have a point, I'll avoid posting news bits unless an official channel puts it out.

Who is behind the two handles you cited above? Why are they credible?
The first is Twitter handle Igor Girkin who is in Ukrainian side and is not afraid to post any losses like calling Russian control of Lyman.

Second tweet is from someone who posts translation of Igor Girkin (I know it’s confusing giving the top Twitter handle) on Russian side (I think it is from a radio show). Igor is Russian army vet and organized the militias in Donetsk (Ukrainians say he is responsible for shooting down the airliner). Also called out Putin on not mobilizing or anticipating Ukrainian resistance. He has been most accurate with his analysis on Russian side and he noted today that Ukranian are withdrawing and forming another defensive line.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

OK, Thanks for clarifying. Lets say they are expert commentators, not some officials on Ukr or Russia side. But since official channels are not exactly "live" news and they can also spin and FUD, to get an accurate picture we need to wait a couple of days and rely on a few YT analysts who take the trouble of cross checking multiple sources and give a strep view and dont add too much of their own bias. Thats want I've been doing, the tidbit I posted above was an aberration.
Baikul
BRFite
Posts: 1462
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 06:47

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Baikul »

Please let me know if the link works for you.

This is an exceptional map of the deployment of Ukrainian and Russian Forces broken down by formations all along the war zone. Made by an analyst by the name of Mirko Campochiari, known on YouTube as Parabellum.

Map displays units and current positions and also line of attack. Names of commanders as well.

Edit - brar ji would have loved this map (: where are you saar?


https://quantum.dedo1911.xyz/fsdownload ... dhtml=true
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Polish and NATO forces have been in Ukraine since 2014, post the Maidan revolution. Officially they withdrew from Ukraine under the pretext of the impending Russian threat. We will have to wait till the end to see what is the reality on the ground.

Meanwhile, "strategy" wise, there are clear indications that the US myopic DNA has kicked in: US is willing to look at some other urgent issues: perhaps the Monkey Pox, or even internal economic upheavals. First the SecDef called the Russian DefMin to either ask or demand for an immediate ceasefire and now the same man has washed his hands off of Ukraine by but what the end of the conflict "looks like will be defined... by the Ukrainians and not by us.". Yes, the US no longer wants to weaken Russia, or Joe Biden's Ruble to rubble comment. One other data point, I do not see Mr. Blinken on any stage, anywhere. The US has left it up to Austin to make all the silly statements.

The "West" has lost on two fronts: military and economics. The third: social, IMO it is TBD, but even here I bet IF we could count the number of UKR flags on a twitter account and use that count as a decent, acceptable indicator of current emotions, the "support" for UKR is on the decline.

So, the tactics, currently, IMO, are nice but irrelevant.

Here on out what will matter is strategic moves. And, here too I think what has happened is that the Russians have taken the 2014 events very seriously, while the West has not. A battalion here or there will not matter, what will is how much of Ukraine is permanently lost to the Russians. And, not what is said by anyone in the media. Which is why I think it will take some time to experience the consequences of this silly adventure. Finally, I think this will have long term consequences - Ukraine is not the last battle ground and certainly is a tamed version of what both sides are capable of.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Brar ji got into a little tiff, sulked and left in a huff. Would be good to have him back but oh well!
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Russia has to complete this current phase - get full control of Donbas and along with Mariupol, Kherson and break UAF's back - All the evidences we have now indicate that this is within reach in the next few weeks. With this they can objectively declare a (partial) victory.
NATO can still spin it as having thwarted Russian aggression on Europe - media will relay and who really checks/cares?

But Poland getting directly involved will take this SMO into a totally new game level. It won't change the outcome of the current phase but will complicate what Russia can do next...
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Not sure the Russian obsession with wanting to believe there are NATO personal fighting Russians, for example there was claims of NATO personal in the Azov plant. Even after Mariupol surrender where did all NATO generals go that were supposedly there helping Azov :D .

Seriously this should be wake up call for Russian military given how RusAF is struggling to take out UkrAF and to establish air superiority which doesn’t even have much in terms of AF to start out with. I would think twice if they think up to par in fighting NATO. Or let alone individual NATO countries like Poland or even Scandinavian countries which are on whole another level compared to Ukraine. Igor noted the same in his radio show a week ago ironically.

It’s shame decade of $$ seems to have wasted on Yatchs and mansions than on actual military.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5461
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

May be the big generals in Azov was false info, may be Russia kept it very quiet following some exchange deal - i don't know.

But several reporters including some French who were in ukr have reported that there were NATO personnel and foreign mercenaries with videos and IDs. That's beyond doubt.

RuAF never said anything about enforcing a NFZ. They're happy shooting down UKrAF or borrowed air craft. If they don't see the need for NFZ, why should we?!

If at all RuAF had to confront Pol or Scan AFs I'd assume they will deploy suitable a/c and tactics. Let's hope it doesn't come to that bcoz that would mean a very serious escalation and expansion of the war
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Russia-Ukraine latest news: Putin 16 miles from encircling elite Ukrainian unit in major Donbas victory
Russian troops are just 25km away from encircling Ukraine's elite special forces in a potential major victory for Vladimir Putin in the Donbas.

Russia's capture of the Severodonetsk region would see the whole of Luhansk Oblast placed under Russian occupation, the Ministry of Defence has warned. The operation, which is currently Moscow's main focus, is only one part of their campaign to seize the Donbas.

............
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Henry Kissinger: Ukraine must give Russia territory

May 23, 2022
Veteran US statesman Henry Kissinger has urged the West to stop trying to inflict a crushing defeat on Russian forces in Ukraine, warning that it would have disastrous consequences for the long term stability of Europe....
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Britain unlikely to join naval convoy to break Russia's grain blockade
In ongoing discussions, there are plans that countries may introduce a 'coalition of the willing' to break through Russia’s blockade
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... k-russian/
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Cyrano wrote:May be the big generals in Azov was false info, may be Russia kept it very quiet following some exchange deal - i don't know.

But several reporters including some French who were in ukr have reported that there were NATO personnel and foreign mercenaries with videos and IDs. That's beyond doubt.

RuAF never said anything about enforcing a NFZ. They're happy shooting down UKrAF or borrowed air craft. If they don't see the need for NFZ, why should we?!

If at all RuAF had to confront Pol or Scan AFs I'd assume they will deploy suitable a/c and tactics. Let's hope it doesn't come to that bcoz that would mean a very serious escalation and expansion of the war
There are foreign fighters but the amount is small, none of them are active NATO personnel which is big difference.

Not sure what you mean by NFZ, NFZ it is used by a foreign power to exert influence and prevent enemy ACs from flying while clearly limiting its use of force to just enforcing such a policy.

Russia won’t be doing NFZ on Ukraine :D since their policy is to shoot down all Ukrainian ACs since they are in conflict. RusAF engagements over Ukraine have been pretty lackluster as I noted earlier we don’t even see bombing runs and not much in terms of close air support.

My point is RusAF performance in pivotal first week was poor which is why I made the statement, now it has only gotten worse but we can discuss that later. For example If you believe the story on Hostomel airport at the start of the war, it seems like RusAF basically disengaged when engaged by Ukr Mig-29s and didn’t provide air cover for VDV as they where getting bombed (ironically Russian pr vids do show this) . I am puzzled by it not sure it is due to lack of training or lack of proper surveillance (awacs).

On the topic of RusAF, interesting how Wagner is flying sorties and reportedly a retired Russian Major General Kanamat Botashev was shot down, possibly by a Stinger MANPADS, in a Su-25 aircraft near Popasna on Sunday and killed.

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1529 ... 58ZATgi7nw
Jay
BRFite
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 18:24
Location: Gods Country
Contact:

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Jay »

Cyrano wrote:May be the big generals in Azov was false info, may be Russia kept it very quiet following some exchange deal - i don't know.

But several reporters including some French who were in ukr have reported that there were NATO personnel and foreign mercenaries with videos and IDs. That's beyond doubt.
Cyrano ji, its without a doubt that NATO is helping in a major way and without them there would be a Russian flag flying from Kiev today. But the assertion that active NATO troops are engaging in a direct conflict with Russian troops is more of Russian wishful thinking/psyops than reality. Sure, I would not be surprised if there comes news that some elite NATO troops were in the frontline to gather intel or to execute some top secret mission, but NATO is not stupid to front its own troops in this war. Also, if RUS captured any NATA troops, what on earth would prevent it from prosecuting them and make an example out of it? I'm sure there are non URK individuals, fighting against RUS in their individual capacity some of them are ex-soldiers from NATO nations. This is well known.

IF you have it handy, please post the French report which attributed these NATO forces fighting in UKR.
gashish
BRFite
Posts: 272
Joined: 23 May 2004 11:31
Location: BRF's tailgate party, aka, Nukkad thread

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by gashish »

skumar
BRFite
Posts: 244
Joined: 30 Nov 2008 08:22

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by skumar »

vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8760
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by vijayk »

https://frontierindia.com/russia-says-a ... -azovstal/

According to the latest Russian media reports, U.S. General Eric Olson, British Lieutenant Colonel John Bailey and four NATO military instructors surrendered at the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol. In total, 2,439 personnel from the Azov Battalion and the Armed Forces of Ukraine laid down their arms and surrendered, as per the Russian Ministry of Defense
Baikul
BRFite
Posts: 1462
Joined: 20 Sep 2010 06:47

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Baikul »

Baikul wrote:Snake Island is variously described as being between 35-48 kilometres off the Ukraine coast.

….
From what I understand Ukraine already has artillery systems that in theory have this Island under range. ……

Why isn’t Ukraine using arty to target the Island? ………
Quoting myself from page 1 where I had asked a question. News is that Ukraine is getting Harpoons from Denmark.

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... -blockade/

That puts Russian ships near Snake Island firmly in range. Harpoons have a range of up to 124 kilometres as per Janes. I’m not sure how long it will take for Ukraine to integrate the system.
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2500
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Baikul wrote:
Baikul wrote:Snake Island is variously described as being between 35-48 kilometres off the Ukraine coast.

….
From what I understand Ukraine already has artillery systems that in theory have this Island under range. ……

Why isn’t Ukraine using arty to target the Island? ………
That puts Russian ships near Snake Island firmly in range. Harpoons have a range of up to 124 kilometres as per Janes. I’m not sure how long it will take for Ukraine to integrate the system.
The Neptune has a longer range and Ukraine will have spares and systems set up to operate the missiles.
Russia can simply declare that its submarines will enforce a blockade. Odessa port can also be wrecked and made unusable by missile strikes.
Post Reply