Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 20 Sep 2022 23:53

That's the logic behind the referendums being rushed in Kherson, Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts. Declare these territories as Russia proper, and any Ukrainian offensive can be treated as if it were breaching Russia's territorial integrity itself. (Russia can nuke them, in other words. Or justify some kind of massive mobilization).

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Sep 2022 00:32

* Putin, I suspect, got some assurances at Samarkhand (from India/China/Turkey). What, I have no clue
* IF the referendums go ahead and pass, then
* Then Russia has to approve them and do whatever to absorb those territories
* IF all that happens, then there is no SMO

* Russia is open to mobilization, whatever

I seriously doubt it will reach nuclear levels.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Sep 2022 00:38

read Macron desperately trying to talk to Putin who is not picking up phone

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Sep 2022 01:26

the West is waging a war to destroy Russia
https://www.rt.com/russia/563196-vladim ... t-is-time/

And here comes Bucha 2.0: Another provocation where Ukraine has allegedly discovered “mass graves of victims” shortly after Russian troops have withdrawn.

This time in Izium. What it amounts to is clear evidence that along with the development of the military conflict in Ukraine, the informational “special” operation against Russia is intensifying.

It’s not even about Kiev’s reaction – officials there concoct primitive fakes against our state and the army non-stop, around the clock.

The indicator here is the way in which this provocation was immediately picked up by Western politicians, who are already urgently calling for an “international tribunal” to punish Russia. Meanwhile, the West’s media, in a united push, is putting unfounded statements about “mass executions and torture in Izium” on its front pages.

This fakery is crass and easily refuted. But it is clear from this unanimous reaction of the West that no one there cares at all how and when the people buried in the cemetery died. The culprit has been appointed in advance – and it has to be Russia. Because only this verdict fits into the overall strategy of the current campaign in Ukraine.

Which, as we can see, has nothing to do with Ukraine. The West is completely indifferent to whatever happened to the Ukrainians, whoever killed them (even if it was Kiev’s own army or foreign mercenaries) and no matter how many of them died. Because it is not fighting a war on this territory for the Ukrainians,and especially not for Ukraine.

We must speak frankly and openly: the West is waging a fierce war against the Russian state, using local forces as proxies. And this is covered by the fig leaf of “defending democracy.” However, what they really want is for Russia to be destroyed. Forever! Irrevocably!

Janusz Bugajski, a leading expert, recently published his book “Failed State: A Guide to Russia’s Rupture.” It is worth highlighting that the work is not a reaction to the Ukrainian conflict, instead it is a logical continuation of all that this ‘Kremlinologist’ has been publicly talking and writing about for years.

Back in early 2019, three years before the current crisis started, he published a feature article in the influential Washington newspaper The Hill, entitled ‘Managing Russia's Dissolution.’

This was not just a forecast or theoretical speculation by some dreamer, it was a direct call to action by an outspoken Russophobe. Suffice it to recall that Bugajski then openly urged the White House to promote regional and ethnic self-determination within the Russian Federation. At the same time, he was speculating which regions of the state destroyed by the West should receive independence and which should be given to Ukraine, Finland, Japan and even China.

It cannot be said that Bugajski’s article was the only theoretical work on the disintegration of our state. But other reports (at least in the public domain) still sought to veil direct calls for the forced break-up of Russia with arguments about the need to weaken our state. This was the case, for example, with a sensational study by the US intelligence corporation RAND commissioned by the US Department of Defense in 2019.

Now the masks are being thrown off and the cadre of Russophobes can openly articulate their long-held dreams. The Daily Telegraph recently featured the former NATO commander in Europe, General Ben Hodges, in a high-profile article about preparing for Russia’s disintegration. Hodges, who is employed by CEPA – a lobby group bankrolled by US arms contractors and NATO – is arguably one of the most active ‘talking heads’ about the Ukrainian crisis on Western television right now.

The general hopes the collapse of our state will be fueled by our ethnic diversity and he hopes that Western economic sanctions will create a situation in which it will be impossible to feed 144 million people. The American has clearly not thought how these arguments could also be applied to his home country, which has been torn apart by racial divisions in recent years.

Below Hodges, the idea has been cheerfully picked up by less well-known figures operating on the ideological field of Russophobia. The Polish magazine New Eastern Europe published an article about deconstructing Russia and reconstructing the “post-Russian space,” calling it a risky but inevitable scenario. The authors called on the West to lead the process of our state’s disintegration right away.

This is echoed by the Canadian-British professor Taras Kuzio on the pages of the Atlantic Council, a NATO-aligned pressure group and the main mouthpiece of Western Russophobes. He, too, cheerfully declares that the process of “the collapse of Putin’s Russian empire” has begun.

Hodges’ theses are repeated almost word for word by Estonia’s top Kremlinologist Vladimir Yushkin on the pages of the website of the International Centre for Defence and Security. However, he adds nonsense about the allegedly developing “colonization of Siberia by the Chinese” –which tells us he doesn’t know how to use statistics.

All these “prophecies” have been brought into the political realm by Estonian President Alar Karis. Opening the NATO Military Committee conference in Tallinn last Friday, he openly admonished the Chiefs of Staff of the US-led bloc to give up their “fear of destabilizing the situation in Russia.”

This is not some retired general, nor a private person with a professorial rank - it’s the official head of a NATO member country. And he is not shying away from calling on the high command of the alliance to pursue a deliberate policy of creating a situation of instability in Russia.

So, what more proof does anyone need of what the collective West is hoping to achieve?

The ideological touchstone of European liberals, The Economist magazine, has devoted its latest issue to how the West should ensure Ukraine’s victory over Russia. Apart from the traditional advice on further arming the Kiev regime, the magazine explicitly demands that the West must try to drive a wedge between the Russian government and the Russian people. To do this, leaders are urged to bet on Russian liberals who have moved abroad, who in these circumstances can be safely called traitors back home.

They are now in a situation where Russia’s enemies are now openly talking about using them to carry out an unrealistic plan to dismember our common motherland!

Thus, we can safely say that the collective West has already moved from talk to action and is openly challenging the very existence of the Russian Federation.

It’s ideologues and a number of top politicians make no secret of the fact that by exploiting the conflict in Ukraine, they are deliberately helping to create an existential threat to our state. The sooner we ourselves officially acknowledge this, the more effectively we will be able to move to a different stage in both relations with our neighbors and the military operation in Ukraine itself.

We still adhere to certain gentlemen’s rules of the game, which were adopted after the end of the Cold War. But now the stakes have been raised too high.

To be clear, I am not calling for us to copy the criminal actions of Ukraine. We, unlike them, do not deliberately kill children, torture prisoners of war, or exterminate civilians.

But in the face of increasing threats to Russian citizens, we are left with no choice but to act much more forcefully against military infrastructure, even if it’s also used by civilians, in the direction of decision-making centres, and towards those individuals directly responsible for terror and murders wherever they are located, as well as tackling states that pursue hostile policies.

After all, we should not forget that when an existential threat to Russia arises, we need to present a tough response.

Those who threaten our homeland should be constantly reminded of this.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Sep 2022 03:17

Trust. My problem is trust.

As much as I want anything that makes India’s hand stronger I have lost faith in Putin and his leadership delivering. And even if Russia pulls the chestnuts out of the fire - what will be the geopolitical cost of that long term - for India specifically.

Russia/EUNATO/US can nuke each other to the stone age for all I care. They can take the Vatican along with them.

China has to be diminished as well

bala · Post by **bala** » 21 Sep 2022 04:08

National Institute for Opinion Surveys and Marketing (INSOMAR) on September 19 among 4,000 respondents, LPR’s accession is supported by 83% of residents, DPR’s accession is backed by 80%, while 72% and 65% of respondents favor accession in Zaporozhye and Kherson Regions, correspondingly.

Leadership of Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as well as liberated Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions made a decision Tuesday to hold referendums on accession to the Russian Federation in response to address of the civil movements. The vote in all four regions will take place on September 23-27.

Once the votes are in, Russia is going to annex the regions.

On Nukes: this is idle chatter and both Russia and US are not going to invoke nukes. They both know the consequence of such actions. Even Dementia laden Biden has firmly ruled out Nukes. Putin is the more responsible person and even he has ruled it out.

Anant wrote:In the US, we are obviously pro-Ukraine

This is not true. Many in the US are questioning US involvement in Ukraine. Only the dumbocrats are supportive. Many in the US Armed forces oppose this adventure. The Neocons are deeply disliked in the US. The FBI, BTW knew RussiaGate was a false story, however they supported it, to spite President Donald J Trump.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Sep 2022 04:42

The logic went out of the door on day 1.

When Annalena Baerbock, the Foreign Minister of Germany, said she did not care for her voters and supported Ukraine 110%, no one protested.

There have been extremely low levels of pushback. And, when some did (France, Germany, Italy, Hungary, etc) they were silenced.

Press has been MIA.

160 of 190 odd nations have not participated in the sanctions and yet they remain silent. Even preferring hunger for their people, to their voices.

German constitution does not allow the use of their military for internal enforcement - I heard, not confirmed, that they are raising 3 battalions to control expected protests.

Germany is led by a children's book writer (am told his latest book is on how children should enjoy nights in candles), the US has no leader, the UK less said the better, France a corrupt guy as they come, Italy let us see, ..........

People are the problem.

However, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Things will get far worse.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 21 Sep 2022 04:44

yesterday at the place I bartend, I had a guy from Wyoming having a couple of wines. He had Z embroided into his hat. it was quite stunning to see that in liberal silicon valley. I asked him if the Z means what i think it is and he just smiled.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 21 Sep 2022 06:45

Cyrano wrote:... My take is that Russia wants winter to do it's job and create high degree of tensions in Europe and drive a wedge between US and Europe. If that happens NATO will become ineffective...

Looks like things are already heading in that direction. Referendum is supposed to occur btw Sept. 23-27 in Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia provinces, representing around approx. 15% of Ukrainian territory? No one expecting surprises, assuming it occurs. Uncle may provoke Ukies to retaliate, which will lead to cutting off heating gas/oil to Ukie and EU. From November to February, the temperature in Kharkiv, for example, ranges from 8C (48F) to -7C (19F). Berlin is not any warmer (50F/10C - 25F/-4C). Tough fighting a war without food, water, electricity, heating...Uncle will be fine, Russ will be fine, but EU and Ukraine is screwed, which will bring its own challenges and frictions between member states.

UN chief warns of ‘winter of discontent’ as world’s multiple crises could worsen

kit · Post by **kit** » 21 Sep 2022 07:17

ks_sachin wrote:Trust. My problem is trust.

As much as I want anything that makes India’s hand stronger I have lost faith in Putin and his leadership delivering. And even if Russia pulls the chestnuts out of the fire - what will be the geopolitical cost of that long term - for India specifically.

Russia/EUNATO/US can nuke each other to the stone age for all I care. They can take the Vatican along with them.

China has to be diminished as well

Not sure if Russia knows what it is doing..Nukes know no borders those kilotons and megatons even in single numbers would devastate the climate to such that recovering it would be impossible. The collective west is running to meet its destiny, karma maybe ., decades and centuries of exploiting and pillaging other countries ., sanity goes first and the rest the entire world can see. ..

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Sep 2022 09:02

NRao wrote:
People are the problem.

How true!!

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Sep 2022 09:03

dnivas wrote:yesterday at the place I bartend, I had a guy from Wyoming having a couple of wines. He had Z embroided into his hat. it was quite stunning to see that in liberal silicon valley. I asked him if the Z means what i think it is and he just smiled.

After that, you should have upsold him some Moscow Mules comrade.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Sep 2022 12:11

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-62970683

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin has announced “partial mobilisation” in Russia “to defend the motherland, its sovereignty and territorial integrity, the security of our people.”

He says this concerns “only citizens in the military reserve, those who’ve served in the army.”

And he issued this threat (to the West):

“If the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, to defend Russia and our people, we will use all means we have. This is not a bluff.

"The territorial integrity of our motherland, our independance and freedom will be secured, I repeat with all the means we have.

"Those who try to blackmail us with nuclear weapons should know that the prevailing winds can turn in their direction.”

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Sep 2022 13:25

Relevant part of Putin & Shoigu's address:

300,000 men are being mobilised. They are those who have served in the army, in roles required for the Ukraine conflict and officially part
of the reserves. They will be deployed after refresher training.
They will be paid the same as contract soldiers - approx. US$ 3000+ / month, which is good by Russian standards and not conscript pay.
No timeline given for how long they will be mobilized.

Ukraine military KIA as per Shoigu are 61000. (not included are foreign fighters).
Russian military dead - 5900. This does not include DPR/LPR militia, which have more dead than the Russian army, or the Wagner group KIA.
(17-20,000 KIA for Russia + allies would be a fair estimate).

greatde · Post by **greatde** » 21 Sep 2022 16:25

Surely, the more Russia makes it about referendum or liberation, India will distance itself? As that can severely impact our own internal security and politics…

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Sep 2022 16:54

Finally the half arsed actions is going full monty.

Time to end this mess once and for all.

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 21 Sep 2022 18:36

17-20,000 KIA for Russia+.
I wonder if we can bear such casualties in an eventual conflict with TSP.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Sep 2022 19:52

Seems Putin mentioned that in Istanbul Russia/Ukraine were very close to peace

And, here we are.

Courtesy Boris

Supposedly a quote from the Putin speech:

" 300 thousand.

This does not mean that everyone will go into a bayonet attack. Most will never see the enemy, even with a binoculars"

I think this 300,000 is a force to ensure as close to a functioning territories absorbed into RU

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 21 Sep 2022 19:59

He is right, Russia needs to take its spearhead farther into Ukraine and that requires a longer shaft. Ukraine's spearhead is mostly gone, the west is simply elongating the shaft which is getting chewed up by the Russian grinder, and its getting closer to the hands holding the shaft.
The West can either drop the decimated shaft or put its hands into the machine and get totally "shafted".

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 21 Sep 2022 20:48

A Deshmukh wrote:17-20,000 KIA for Russia+.
I wonder if we can bear such casualties in an eventual conflict with TSP.

The aim of the Indian Armed Forces is not to die but to make as many Pakistanis die for their country.

On a serious note what kind of question is that. If any thing the Indian public’s stomach for the hard yards is what I question.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Sep 2022 21:12

NRao wrote: I think this 300,000 is a force to ensure as close to a functioning territories absorbed into RU

There is the Russian National guard (a rough equivalent of a BSF/CRPF) already in Ukraine, approx. 20k strong, to ensure internal security and also act as light infantry for the regular army formations.

Losses of the LPR & FPR militia are being replaced by fresh recruits from newly liberated parts of Donbass and from Crimea (Crimea IMO
should have been mobilized years ago).

Announcement of Russian citizenship for all foreigners joining the Russian army and fighting for a year. This is a good incentive for people from the 'Stans, or from Afghanistan (Hazaras) or Syria.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 21 Sep 2022 21:18

greatde wrote:Surely, the more Russia makes it about referendum or liberation, India will distance itself? As that can severely impact our own internal security and politics…

NATO used the same logic to bomb Serbia for 60 days (People in Kosovo - in NATO's opinion, wanted independence from Serbia).

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 21 Sep 2022 21:22

ks_sachin wrote:
A Deshmukh wrote:17-20,000 KIA for Russia+.
I wonder if we can bear such casualties in an eventual conflict with TSP.
The aim of the Indian Armed Forces is not to die but to make as many Pakistanis die for their country.

On a serious note what kind of question is that. If any thing the Indian public’s stomach for the hard yards is what I question.

If there is an existential threat then Indian soldiers and people will make the required sacrifice. We will pursue peace painfully till the end but when push comes to shove the foe will meet with steel. It is only the half hearted 'limited operations without crossing yellow sea' etc. that will cause panic and public outcry. This is anyway OT.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 22 Sep 2022 04:06

bala wrote:
On Nukes: this is idle chatter and both Russia and US are not going to invoke nukes. They both know the consequence of such actions. Even Dementia laden Biden has firmly ruled out Nukes. Putin is the more responsible person and even he has ruled it out.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. US is pushing Russia as much as possible. At what point will Russia snap and take a decision, if we are going down, you are coming with us?

Also, imagine a scenario where a NATO spy plane gets threatened by a Russian plane, who will shoot first? Its a slippery slope from there.

This whole setup is scary. One mistake or adventurism is all it takes to quickly spiral out of control.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 22 Sep 2022 11:03

Dilbu wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: The aim of the Indian Armed Forces is not to die but to make as many Pakistanis die for their country.

On a serious note what kind of question is that. If any thing the Indian public’s stomach for the hard yards is what I question.
If there is an existential threat then Indian soldiers and people will make the required sacrifice. We will pursue peace painfully till the end but when push comes to shove the foe will meet with steel. It is only the half hearted 'limited operations without crossing yellow sea' etc. that will cause panic and public outcry. This is anyway OT.

Of all things in India, one thing I'm not worried about, is it's armed forces and people's will to fight till the very bitter end. They will. They always did. It's the leadership that's been lacking. And that's changing, fast.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Sep 2022 15:17

Good to see you post again Cain Marko ji.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Sep 2022 15:33

Deans wrote:Relevant part of Putin & Shoigu's address:
Russian military dead - 5900. This does not include DPR/LPR militia, which have more dead than the Russian army, or the Wagner group KIA.
(17-20,000 KIA for Russia + allies would be a fair estimate).

Russian army KIA- 5937. Natnl Guard + Wagner- 550 KIA (actual maybe 1000). DPR dead- 3069. LPR - Unknown, but probably less than DPR.
So approx. 13,000 KIA (or 12-15,000 KIA) which matches the more credible Western estimates.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Sep 2022 15:44

55 Russian POWs exchanged for 220 Ukrainian + foreign POW.
Interestingly both sides said there are no more Russian prisoners available to be exchanged. Ukraine has admitted it has about 8,600 men POW in
Russia. They are regular army. National guard & territorial army are just shown as missing (could be deserted, or POW, or dead).
The low POW figure (which never exceed 1000 at any time) shows Russian morale is high. There are remarkably few surrenders, though there are a lot of incentives. (cash & EU residency).

The men from Azov and foreign fighters will be imprisoned in Turkey till the war is over. That was a deal brokered by the Saudi's (MBS).
While that is not the outcome I would have liked to see (not does the majority opinion on Russian social media), there are some positives:

1. Russia was pushed into a tight corner with death sentences handed down to some of the foreign fighters. They don't have to do this now.
2. Narrative in Russia is `we got all our boys out, even if we had to exchange more for them'.
3. Ukraine govt has given priority to nationalist and foreign fighters over their own men.
4. MBS and Erdogan shown as more caring for European prisoners than European leaders.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Sep 2022 17:13

what are chances some west black ops can detonate a dirty bum in Eu / UK and use it as excuse to nuke Ru ?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Sep 2022 18:03

And then what? Ru with the biggest N arsenal has no second strike capability?

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 22 Sep 2022 18:24

IndraD wrote:what are chances some west black ops can detonate a dirty bum in Eu / UK and use it as excuse to nuke Ru ?

Again please see earlier posts. You can deduce where the fissile material originated from the residual isotopes

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Sep 2022 19:08

Tanaji wrote:
IndraD wrote:what are chances some west black ops can detonate a dirty bum in Eu / UK and use it as excuse to nuke Ru ?
Again please see earlier posts. You can deduce where the fissile material originated from the residual isotopes

in a sane world yes. In an insane world where west lies through teeth (WMD et al) no. Besides who knows if Ukros have the same isotopes available. It was all russian before 90.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 22 Sep 2022 19:49

If the numbers of KIA/MIA are true then that is mind blowing for a modern conflict. Total meat grinder

They might as well have fought with swords and got it over it.
I have wondered how did RA become such Gandhigiri army. Fighting with one hand tied behind the back is our speciality !! That too with limited ammunition although they did well for 6 months+
I wonder if MoD and IA will take any lessons on stocking up ammo at our end, we won’t have a RA next time to rely on.

On a different note it’s a bit sad that RA had to barter drones from Eyeran and buy ammo from NoKo? Ideally we should have been a Soviet ammo or drone tech powerhouse! Atmanirbhar without Dostnirbhar is needed. Can we be relied upon by anyone for hard power ? We may have brave men but do we have broad inventory ?!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Sep 2022 19:52

Russia trades Azov fighters for Putin ally in biggest prisoner swap of Ukraine war
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... nskiy-says

More than 200 Ukrainian and foreign citizens have been released from Russian captivity, including fighters who led the defence of the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol, in the biggest prisoner swap since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February.

In return, Russia received 55 prisoners from Ukraine, including the former Ukrainian MP Viktor Medvedchuk, an ally of Vladimir Putin accused by Ukraine of high treason.

The swap came after mediation by Turkey.

In Ukraine, where the Azov fighters have become national heroes, news of the swap was met with delight.

“We are extremely proud of what our heroes have done. We are so proud of each of you,” the Ukrainian MP Kira Rudik tweeted.

Zelenskiy said five military commanders, including leaders of the defence of Azovstal, would remain in Turkey “in total security and in comfortable conditions” until the end of the war. There was no comment from Moscow.

The 10 foreign prisoners of war were transferred from Russia to Saudi Arabia earlier on Wednesday.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 22 Sep 2022 21:02

kit wrote:Not sure if Russia knows what it is doing..Nukes know no borders those kilotons and megatons even in single numbers would devastate the climate to such that recovering it would be impossible. The collective west is running to meet its destiny, karma maybe ., decades and centuries of exploiting and pillaging other countries ., sanity goes first and the rest the entire world can see. ..

The western elites, actually, are the ones trying to bring about the kind of “limited” nuclear exchange you describe. They’ve gamed out that a limited nuclear exchange, the kind of typical “counter-force” scenario that has been planned for since the Cold War, doesn’t end the world as we know it and actually works to their advantage.

Think about it from their point of view.

-Push Russia into corner.(done)
-Russia gets desperate and escalates. (done)
-Grind Russia further, push them into using nukes.(in progress…)
-Escalate to open hostilities w/Russia and predictable outcome of a limited nuclear exchange. (coming soon)
-Limited nuclear exchange kills a few million people on both sides (mostly the families of soldiers living on and around military bases, an overwhelmingly “right-wing” group of people, by the way. Good to be rid of them.) Population and economic centers remain intact. Great destruction but ultimately manageable. Environment not destroyed but still, play it up for political gain obviously. Rebuilding and hatred of the enemy Russia would permanently change western society and marginalize all their right wing opposition groups for good.
-Get a temporary cease fire declared quickly.
-Use this limited nuclear war as an excuse to officially end the war and negotiate. Now that the war has served its purpose (the ruin and ultimate dismemberment of Russia), there is no need to keep it going. Besides, ending the war will accelerate the fall of Putin and the dissolution of Russia itself.
-Putin quickly falls or dies, it doesn’t matter because Russian civilization was the target all along, not Putin.
-Meanwhile the west can institute complete authoritarian rule over all their peoples, and the people will be glad for it.
-Now the purged, newly revitalized and unified west can behave on the world stage like the woke imperialists they we’re always meant to be. No more need for pretense.

This would be the ultimate victory of the ruling western elites. It would be their greatest power play in history.

I’ve know I’ve said this before, but I still believe this remains their end game.

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 22 Sep 2022 22:59

No one is pushing Russia to do anything. Having a hostile Ukraine on its border is not the end of the world. Russia does not have the right to have puppet governments installed in it's neighborhood. We don't go around pointing nukes at our neighbors when they start tilting towards our enemies.

No one can blame Ukrainians who want to exit the Russian sphere of influence and find their own destiny. Russia with all it's resources and military is still doing rather poorly because of decades of terrible leadership and endemic corruption. I have never met a Russian who had anything good to say about their government.

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 Sep 2022 23:04

America wants to ruin Europe and force Russia, and then rebuild , Marshall plan 2.0. Trillions at stake.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 22 Sep 2022 23:27

only factor not taken into account is one or many nukes falling over US itself, in such a scenario no one knows who will survive on earth to take over its resources it would be MAD

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Sep 2022 00:12

The prisoners exchange is bizzare to say the least.

Why now? when Russia is facing some degree of external pressure to act towards ending the conflict, including Modi's words, reiterated by Dr SJ at UNGA today.

The released Azov leaders are already giving triumphant interviews and will go right back to atrocities on Russophone people. Ukraine is once again upbeat, Baniansky's chest is >52 inches now. Ukraine will only feel vindicated and entitled , will show zero gratitude.

Kadyrov is very pissed - his men died, got wounded trying smoke them out.

PoW exchange could have waited the end of the war, or at a minimum until the referendums are over and the 4 territories are declared as part of Russia.

What did Russia get in return? A dissident supposedly close to Putin and a far less no of PoWs than what they released to Ukr.

Unless there has been some other quid pro quo out of sight of some mega proportions, why Russia agreed and went through with this is quite inexplicable to me.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 23 Sep 2022 00:14

Raja wrote:No one is pushing Russia to do anything. Having a hostile Ukraine on its border is not the end of the world. Russia does not have the right to have puppet governments installed in it's neighborhood. We don't go around pointing nukes at our neighbors when they start tilting towards our enemies.

No one can blame Ukrainians who want to exit the Russian sphere of influence and find their own destiny. Russia with all it's resources and military is still doing rather poorly because of decades of terrible leadership and endemic corruption. I have never met a Russian who had anything good to say about their government.

Losing crimea would have been. So, russians didn't want to wait until that.