Dissing any and every state media report from Russia or a pro Russian channel automatically as untrustworthy and a bunch of lies has been so standard in the western media and even here, that I have stopped pointing it out or arguing about it !!..And why is that? Is CNN, or perhaps the BBC only preferable to any Russian or their allied media?
This is a key part of the Western playbook, so faithfully echoed by the likes of John ji.Cyrano wrote:Dissing any and every state media report from Russia or a pro Russian channel automatically as untrustworthy and a bunch of lies has been so standard in the western media and even here, that I have stopped pointing it out or arguing about it !!..And why is that? Is CNN, or perhaps the BBC only preferable to any Russian or their allied media?
But thanks for putting the finger on it Hari ji.
Western "journalism" is mostly entertainment at this point.Cyrano wrote:Western MSM reporters mostly stay in Lviv or Kiev in 5* digs and relay report whatever they are fed by the Kiev regime, and all "on ground" reporting is from set stage prices provided by the regime. They are not usually authorised to go looking for news on their own. If they venture out, they are quickly asked to leave or told that their "security can no longer be guaranteed". And of course no one from western MSM goes to report from the other side of the front line, except a handful of independent journos from US, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy etc. whose stories are mostly ignored by the MSM back home.
So much for freedom of press and whatnot...
Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims. Unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. There is plenty of more moderate news and open source int community which is good at confirming these propaganda pieces from both side. Even in Russian side there are people like Igor who call it BS on reports like this.Cyrano wrote:Dissing any and every state media report from Russia or a pro Russian channel automatically as untrustworthy and a bunch of lies has been so standard in the western media and even here, that I have stopped pointing it out or arguing about it !!..And why is that? Is CNN, or perhaps the BBC only preferable to any Russian or their allied media?
But thanks for putting the finger on it Hari ji.
Unlike Western/Ukro media, which has reported solid facts like Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island Martyrs, Bucha "massacre", and other such gemsJohn wrote: Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. They made claims like this before like we have defeated Ukr AF and all air defenses in day one.
WMD - IraqUBanerjee wrote:Unlike Western/Ukro media, which has reported solid facts like Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island Martyrs, Bucha "massacre", and other such gemsJohn wrote: Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. They made claims like this before like we have defeated Ukr AF and all air defenses in day one.
Both sides have propaganda I called out the Ghost as incorrect and shootdowns where result of SAM but did report Ukr AF is operational and not taken out as claimed.UBanerjee wrote:Unlike Western/Ukro media, which has reported solid facts like Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island Martyrs, Bucha "massacre", and other such gemsJohn wrote: Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. They made claims like this before like we have defeated Ukr AF and all air defenses in day one.
Until, of course, reality stepped in over 5 weeks later!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukra ... -rcna26867
At the time all Western media uncritically reported this "war news"
Even Russian Air Force hasn’t done any strikes out side of low flying Combat air support and stand off attacks. Both AF ironically are operating very similarly mainly because neither has SEAD capability to neutralize the others air defensednivas wrote:The problem is you take tiny tactical or small sector victories of Ukr and translate that into some sort of all encompassing Ukr Victory. There has not been a single Ukr push more than 50 km's against heavy Russian resistance. the Mythical planes you talk about, they get in the air and just like any paki terrorist entering Kashmir, the half life is a span of a few days.
How come any of the mythical Ukr fighter planes not even once strafed the 40km long convoy.
Why are they no sustained CAP in the air , if the Ukr airforce is so powerful.
when Russia says Ukr air force is no more, it means they are unable to mount an effective counter attack, sure there are teeny tiny raids here and there. These planes are taken out until the next batch from the euro cowards come in.
John Saab - this is my T-H-I-R-D request to you - kindly respond to my earlier posts.John wrote:Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims. Unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. There is plenty of more moderate news and open source int community which is good at confirming these propaganda pieces from both side. Even in Russian side there are people like Igor who call it BS on reports like this.Cyrano wrote: Dissing any and every state media report from Russia or a pro Russian channel automatically as untrustworthy and a bunch of lies has been so standard in the western media and even here, that I have stopped pointing it out or arguing about it !!
But thanks for putting the finger on it Hari ji.
They made claims like this before like we have defeated Ukr AF and all air defenses in day one.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550426-ukrain ... essed/amp/
We have taken out battery of M777 and in footage they showed strikes missing their target. The same battery released vids following week
https://www.rt.com/russia/555935-army-d ... tzers/amp/
They where also reporting on whole ex 70 yr NATO generals operating in Mariupol which looks like they took it down.
There are bad news near Donetsk though, and its about the shelling.
It is expected to increase.
UA artillery continues staging near Avdeevka. Guess where UKR command decided to send those spiffy brand new TPQ-37 ctr-batt radars now that RuAF is trying to dispose of them? Yeah.
Which do you want to respond? I noted before they made claims they taken out western m777 before and they turned out to be false. It doesn’t make sense for m777 to be stored in a warehouse far from frontline when they are being deployed to frontlines as quickly as possible. So I would wait for confirmation.Hari Nair wrote:John Saab - this is my T-H-I-R-D request to you - kindly respond to my earlier posts.John wrote: Because RT has made lot of ridiculous claims. Unlike Russia, Ukr command doesn’t operate close to front lines. There is plenty of more moderate news and open source int community which is good at confirming these propaganda pieces from both side. Even in Russian side there are people like Igor who call it BS on reports like this.
They made claims like this before like we have defeated Ukr AF and all air defenses in day one.
https://www.rt.com/russia/550426-ukrain ... essed/amp/
We have taken out battery of M777 and in footage they showed strikes missing their target. The same battery released vids following week
https://www.rt.com/russia/555935-army-d ... tzers/amp/
They where also reporting on whole ex 70 yr NATO generals operating in Mariupol which looks like they took it down.
Shoot and scoot is okay with western audiences, definitely not with this Forum, as so many other members are pointing out.
You responses do not appear to reflect the objective and analytical nature of this Forum. I will even dare to say that your POV is one-sided.
Here is the link from Russian MOD, I hope that's to your liking and more reliable than RTdnivas wrote:RT has been more reliable than Ukr MOD so far. we will come back to this in a few weeks and I will ask mod to remove this post if thus turns out to be false.I hope you will do the same as well.John wrote: I would take any RT report with a grain of salt they reported they took out all M777 the day they are delivered couple weeks ago and they make the same claim here.
Yuri claims Su-57 used in front lines.
https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1538 ... O2lqlyt1yg
regarding SU57 there has been some articles in some non Russian sources as well a few days ago.
https://www.airdatanews.com/su-57-steal ... n-ukraine/
The offensive in the Severodonetsk direction is successfully developing. The units of the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic, with the support of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, liberated the settlement of Metelkino. Some units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, due to their low moral and psychological state, lack of ammunition and lack of support, leave the combat area. Thus, a platoon of the 1st company of the 1st battalion of the 57th Motorized Infantry Brigade, defending in the area of Lisichansk, abandoned heavy weapons and abandoned their positions.RUAF does not want to escalate and impose any sort of CAP on western Ukraine. They are hitting target of opportunities as and when they arise.John wrote:Even Russian Air Force hasn’t done any strikes out side of low flying Combat air support and stand off attacks. Both AF ironically are operating very similarly mainly because neither has SEAD capability to neutralize the others air defensednivas wrote:The problem is you take tiny tactical or small sector victories of Ukr and translate that into some sort of all encompassing Ukr Victory. There has not been a single Ukr push more than 50 km's against heavy Russian resistance. the Mythical planes you talk about, they get in the air and just like any paki terrorist entering Kashmir, the half life is a span of a few days.
How come any of the mythical Ukr fighter planes not even once strafed the 40km long convoy.
Why are they no sustained CAP in the air , if the Ukr airforce is so powerful.
when Russia says Ukr air force is no more, it means they are unable to mount an effective counter attack, sure there are teeny tiny raids here and there. These planes are taken out until the next batch from the euro cowards come in.
Russian Su-25
https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/153 ... O2lqlyt1yg
Ukrainian Su-25
https://twitter.com/raging545/status/15 ... O2lqlyt1yg
We haven’t seen any frontal convoy strikes by either side since first week, both AF lost ACs when they tried do that.Rather they have stuck to using drones/artillery or lobing rockets from ACs beyond visual horizon.
There are 3 sets of info on the M-777 which I have tried to cross reference.John wrote: Which do you want to respond? I noted before they made claims they taken out western m777 before and they turned out to be false. It doesn’t make sense for m777 to be stored in a warehouse far from frontline when they are being deployed to frontlines as quickly as possible. So I would wait for confirmation.
I don’t understand your argument you are saying RusAF isn’t doing any bombing runs and sticking to lobing rockets and stand off weapons because they don’t want to?dnivas wrote:RUAF does not want to escalate and impose any sort of CAP on western Ukraine. They are hitting target of opportunities as and when they arise.John wrote:
Even Russian Air Force hasn’t done any strikes out side of low flying Combat air support and stand off attacks. Both AF ironically are operating very similarly mainly because neither has SEAD capability to neutralize the others air defense
Russian Su-25
https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/153 ... O2lqlyt1yg
Ukrainian Su-25
https://twitter.com/raging545/status/15 ... O2lqlyt1yg
We haven’t seen any frontal convoy strikes by either side since first week, both AF lost ACs when they tried do that.Rather they have stuck to using drones/artillery or lobing rockets from ACs beyond visual horizon.
Ukranians according to you who have lost as many as RUAF still do not seem to strike at 40 Km long supply routes or even for that matter egress into Russia and take out even on village?? I wonder why
Yes the bigger problem with M777 and western weaponary is ammunition and spares than Russian strikes, also these are used M777s god knows what state they are in. Even with new M777 it took IA a while to induct M777 and I cannot imagine UA some how being able to press these into service without repurcussions.Deans wrote:There are 3 separate reports on the M-777 which I have tried to cross reference.John wrote: Which do you want to respond? I noted before they made claims they taken out western m777 before and they turned out to be false. It doesn’t make sense for m777 to be stored in a warehouse far from frontline when they are being deployed to frontlines as quickly as possible. So I would wait for confirmation.
1. M-777 battery attacked by drones/ artillery. I believe, the battery was successfully attacked and this has been acknowledged by Western Analysts. A shot of 1 shell missing the target is actually proof to me that it was a successful strike, given the number of shells that would have been fired, their CEP and the kill radius of a 152mm shell.
2. Strike on a warehouse. It's logical for the Russians to target warehouses instead of dispersed pieces. When a M-777 is supplied, it would have to be accompanied by ammo, personnel for the battery, support vehicles, spares etc. These might come from different sources, so it makes sense to
consolidate these in a warehouse away from the front, while they figure out how to get the complete battery to the front - when rail lines and bridges are attacked and deployment priorities change.
3. Ukraine MOD reports that 2 of the 6 M-777s they just received, needed repairs and are not usable. Overall 36 out of 108 needed repairs either before use, or after 1st use.
John wrote:Which do you want to respond? I noted before they made claims they taken out western m777 before and they turned out to be false. It doesn’t make sense for m777 to be stored in a warehouse far from frontline when they are being deployed to frontlines as quickly as possible. So I would wait for confirmation.Hari Nair wrote:
John Saab - this is my T-H-I-R-D request to you - kindly respond to my earlier posts.
Shoot and scoot is okay with western audiences, definitely not with this Forum, as so many other members are pointing out.
You responses do not appear to reflect the objective and analytical nature of this Forum. I will even dare to say that your POV is one-sided.
What I an saying is that there is no need for RUAF to waste their engine time flying cap over Ukraine which has no meaningful air force left. Every time a new batch of hand me downs are given ti Ukr , they are either shot down within a few days or preserved until some sort of important mission. Again these are tiny tiny wins and is inconsequential in the long run. Ukr is only running a media war primarily,John wrote:I don’t understand your argument you are saying RusAF isn’t doing any bombing runs and sticking to lobing rockets and stand off weapons because they don’t want to?dnivas wrote:
RUAF does not want to escalate and impose any sort of CAP on western Ukraine. They are hitting target of opportunities as and when they arise.
Ukranians according to you who have lost as many as RUAF still do not seem to strike at 40 Km long supply routes or even for that matter egress into Russia and take out even on village?? I wonder why
That makes no sense most of targets are still close to front line (take for example Kharkiv) and they are using stand off weapons rather than launching air strikes because of threat from air defenses.
Same applies UkrAF as well why risk the small amount of ACs operational on strikes into Russia or seperatists areas, that said supposedly the recent strike on Donetsk was done by Ukr Su-25, DNR and few have made that claim because of S-8 rockets found on scene but I think these could come from exploding ammunition (Russia says it’s artillery and Ukr hasn’t said anything).
I am not pushing one sided narrative few folks get too emotional if anyone refutes Russian propaganda or calls it out that’s why Brar left especially after whole Russian BS report of NATO general captured and other such reports which he correctly called out as incorrect.Hari Nair wrote:John wrote: Which do you want to respond? I noted before they made claims they taken out western m777 before and they turned out to be false. It doesn’t make sense for m777 to be stored in a warehouse far from frontline when they are being deployed to frontlines as quickly as possible. So I would wait for confirmation.
Read my earlier posts more carefully please - I have given links to a professional W-E-S-T-E-R-N military academy and TWO of their analysis. You chose to continually ignore those and keep pushing a narrative based only on some micro-events.
I recommend we stop the shoot-and-scoot method of pushing an obviously one-sided narrative, that is increasingly not being supported by facts on the ground - this is a dedicated mil forum with a very specific and focused thread.
Kindly respond on a point-by-point basis.
Given the above, your responses to not engage in an objective manner appear to border on extreme bias and may not be befitting the standards of this forum.
Focusing on micro-events to push forward a specific perceived narrative is NOT cutting the ice with this audience, as you are undoubtedly becoming aware.
I usually do not get into a fur-ball discussion, but in this case I may need to make an exception.John wrote:I am not pushing one sided narrative few folks get too emotional if anyone refutes Russian propaganda or calls it out that’s why Brar left especially after whole Russian BS report of NATO general captured and other such reports which he correctly called out as incorrect.Hari Nair wrote:
Read my earlier posts more carefully please - I have given links to a professional W-E-S-T-E-R-N military academy and TWO of their analysis. You chose to continually ignore those and keep pushing a narrative based only on some micro-events.
I recommend we stop the shoot-and-scoot method of pushing an obviously one-sided narrative, that is increasingly not being supported by facts on the ground - this is a dedicated mil forum with a very specific and focused thread.
Kindly respond on a point-by-point basis.
Given the above, your responses to not engage in an objective manner appear to border on extreme bias and may not be befitting the standards of this forum.
Focusing on micro-events to push forward a specific perceived narrative is NOT cutting the ice with this audience, as you are undoubtedly becoming aware.
As for the video from Österreichs Bundesheer, I haven’t seen whole video he could be right there is shortage of artillery on Ukrainian side I noted if Russia focused on east it would fall in couple of weeks but fact they it hasn’t shown even I have been wrong.
I suggest mods go thru and clean up last few posts.Hari Nair wrote:I usually do not get into a fur-ball discussion, but in this case I may need to make an exception.John wrote: I am not pushing one sided narrative few folks get too emotional if anyone refutes Russian propaganda or calls it out that’s why Brar left especially after whole Russian BS report of NATO general captured and other such reports which he correctly called out as incorrect.
As for the video from Österreichs Bundesheer, I haven’t seen whole video he could be right there is shortage of artillery on Ukrainian side I noted if Russia focused on east it would fall in couple of weeks but fact they it hasn’t shown even I have been wrong.
I do not know your nationality, where you are from and where your loyalties lie.
Your one-line ungrammatical response to TWO western dispassionate and objective analytical presentations of about 30-40 min is:
"I haven’t seen whole video he could be right there is shortage of artillery on Ukrainian side"
This obviously indicates a very condescending tone and clearly shows the abysmal and shallow quality of analysis.
I do not know your nationality, where you are from or where your loyalties lie - however, may I request you to stop bombarding this thread with one-sided posts of irrelevant micro events? It brings down the level of discourse and instead, is better suited for a propaganda piece in some rag in the MSM.
Nothing good comes from suicidal attack and attacking a convoy requires good Intel it’s not the movies. As for Su-25s getting shot down in days both sides have lost Su-25s but atleast vids of one I have posted has been seen flying since March.You keep saying Ukr is saving its planes for important targets. What's more important than a 40 mile column of supply trucks. why is the Ukr AF not flying one sortie and take out even 1Km of supply trucks. All we see are one heli here or one heli there , any SU25 in the air is shot down within days. What are they preserving the air planes for, All of E ukr is about t fall. What is more important than using the planes now????
There was no independent confirmation of any of the attacks and Reuters could not ascertain whether they had taken place. There has been no immediate reaction from Kyiv to the reports.
In the past many weeks, You keep saying RUAF is as wrecked as UKr Af and the reason Ukr AF is able to fly is because RUAF is a sliver of what it once was.John wrote: Nothing good comes from suicidal attack and attacking a convoy requires good Intel it’s not the movies. As for Su-25s getting shot down in days both sides have lost Su-25s but atleast vids of one I have posted has been seen flying since March.
The video I posted is from June and the same plane and wingmen has seen been flying in May and March in Vids and we have seen footage or wreckage of planes to prove the RusAF has shot down UkfAF immediately at launch. In fact what’s impressive is so far we have only one or two documented shootdowns by an AC (one is Russia Flanker vs Mi-14) both sides have made claims of air to air shoot downs but no evidence.
.[/quote]UBanerjee wrote:I don't know why we should be upset that Western POV pushers "left" because of our "bias" (e.g. brar-ji). .....
These guys are past masters at twisting and torturing words. That is actually the West's single biggest export at this point- information warfare.
The "Empire of Lies" indeed (see Putin's speech, from Feb 24th).
We, speaking English and thus exposed directly to these lies, should be cautious in how we investigate the world and what we do and don't take for granted. How many people here know that Israel bombed Syria's international airport a week or so ago? Did the Western MSM highlight the fact at all, and how much of Indian media simply swallows Western sources wholesale?
I never ever stated RuAF is wrecked but rather after the losses they decided it is too risky to fly bombing runs (it could be also due to lack of PGM or combination of both). I never stated Ukr AF has superior AF but rather a small AF (even pre war they barely had 2 squadrons of ACs operational) so they have to pick and choose their strikes.dnivas wrote:In the past many weeks, You keep saying RUAF is as wrecked as UKr Af and the reason Ukr AF is able to fly is because RUAF is a sliver of what it once was.John wrote: Nothing good comes from suicidal attack and attacking a convoy requires good Intel it’s not the movies. As for Su-25s getting shot down in days both sides have lost Su-25s but atleast vids of one I have posted has been seen flying since March.
The video I posted is from June and the same plane and wingmen has seen been flying in May and March in Vids and we have seen footage or wreckage of planes to prove the RusAF has shot down UkfAF immediately at launch. In fact what’s impressive is so far we have only one or two documented shootdowns by an AC (one is Russia Flanker vs Mi-14) both sides have made claims of air to air shoot downs but no evidence.
At the same time, there are massive convoys all across the country feeding the Russian war machine. Why is the Ukr AF not making an effort to fly their superior air force and take out those supply dumps. No supply , the invasion grounds to a halt. Why is the RU SMO so blase about not having CAP over strategic supply depots??
These are thoughts to ponder. Either Russia has given up on aircraft based defense or they have such complete air superiority they know the puny existing Ukr AF can do jack SH*T to any existing land based formations. I mean to be honest what you do think is likely? I want to understand your perspective.
Now you also said no good comes from a suicidal attack. Mariupol was suicidal/ literally every dugout now in eastern Ukr is suicidal and a death trap. I mean your logic is highly illogical and inconsistent. Every time we hear of a last stand, ukr troops are willing be to suicidal, yet somehow these massive convoys to which Ukr has near real time intelligence the Ukr AF does not find the cojones to mount an assault. Why is that. Logistics wins wars, why are the Ukr not mounting airstrikes and launching attacks on supply depots.
Great post Sirjee. Well said. See the article below as well. A good read.UBanerjee wrote:The last few months have made it abundantly clear to me, someone who lives in the States and follows Western mainstream and alt media very closely, that Western MSM has really become worse than the Soviet era Pravda. I don't say this lightly or as a joke. They have become unhinged, divorced from reality, and almost mentally disturbed. It's been striking to watch.
From the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Western media have systematically misrepresented developments on the battlefield.
Be forewarned Sirjee of starting threads like this. They take a life of their ownks_sachin wrote:Starting this thread was an attempt by me to understand force structure and their deployment in combat especially the Russian.
Folks will only accept the reality they want to see.ks_sachin wrote:Yes Admiral.
But I have little hope of meaningful when even Hari Nair sir's posts are not read properly and contextualised.
Excellent point there! The capability of a country's MIC and economy to back up its military campaign is a very key factor, as this conflict has clearly shown. Mere stockpiling of imported weapons for a limited period fighting may not suffice.Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... TB7NX3r7wg ---> As a point of comparison, India fired over 250K rounds in the Kargil conflict. Around 5K rounds a day, and 9K during the Tiger Hill assault itself. By that metric, the proposed supply is for around a weeks worth of intense fighting.
Col Douglas Macgregor is one of the few down-to-earth and practical veterans in the US. He had predicted this outcome some time back and had warned against the US fighting the Russians in Ukraine until the last Ukrainian standing.ks_sachin wrote:Apologies if already posted..
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... -come-home
Very well put! If we follow the western MSM, then one gets the impression that Moscow is already under threat by the rapidly advancing Ukrainian forces!UBanerjee wrote:....Western MSM has really become worse than the Soviet era Pravda. I don't say this lightly or as a joke. They have become unhinged, divorced from reality, and almost mentally disturbed. It's been striking to watch.
The reason I bring this up in the mil tactics and strategy thread is that it has become imperative for me, personally, to find Western alt and dissident sources to get an accurate picture of Russian and Ukrainian combat tactics and strategy.... how much of Indian media simply swallows Western sources wholesale?
Wiki says that in February of this year, prior to the start of the war Ukraine had:John wrote:I don’t understand your argument you are saying RusAF isn’t doing any bombing runs and sticking to lobing rockets and stand off weapons because they don’t want to?dnivas wrote:
RUAF does not want to escalate and impose any sort of CAP on western Ukraine. They are hitting target of opportunities as and when they arise.
Ukranians according to you who have lost as many as RUAF still do not seem to strike at 40 Km long supply routes or even for that matter egress into Russia and take out even on village?? I wonder why
That makes no sense most of targets are still close to front line (take for example Kharkiv) and they are using stand off weapons rather than launching air strikes because of threat from air defenses.
Same applies UkrAF as well why risk the small amount of ACs operational on strikes into Russia or seperatists areas, that said supposedly the recent strike on Donetsk was done by Ukr Su-25, DNR and few have made that claim because of S-8 rockets found on scene but I think these could come from exploding ammunition (Russia says it’s artillery and Ukr hasn’t said anything).
This is a truly excellent high-value post, and so true! So true!UBanerjee wrote: ... The last few months have made it abundantly clear to me... that Western MSM has really become worse than the Soviet era Pravda. I don't say this lightly or as a joke. They have become unhinged, divorced from reality, and almost mentally disturbed. It's been striking to watch. ...