Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

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Deans
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Some points about Russian artillery :

There is a shortage of long range drones. They are now using drones from the Ministry of emergencies.
After a while artillery gun barrels have to be replaced or recalibrated. Russia has reached that point. Russian factories doing this have a limited capacity, so they are cannibalizing artillery in storage (so are Ukrainians, who cannot recalibrate or replace barrels). They are making up for lack of spotting and firing accuracy, by saturation fire.

LPR/DPR militia are being supported by artillery of discontinued calibers (122 & 130mm). Russia can't produce more of this, but use up old stocks of guns and ammo to support the militia.

Reserve artillery units have limited firing experience, limited technical knowledge (very little experience as artillery men) and unreliable guns.
However, they have officers with some experience and all spares for guns are made in Russia. It is taking them time to train then under battle conditions and induct them into Ukraine. Ukraine's problem is worse as they have already committed their best units into the fight (who are being killed). They don't have a trained reserve and coscripts will take much longer to master Western systems.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

These hits are also coupled with US intel from satellite imagery & similar sources. It seems US & allies have built a massive surveillance capability and they r transferring info to Ukraine. Several reports count of ground operatives directly receiving this data and feeding the artillery strike forces. This info is bypassing the high command for both cutting down on qualify to strike loop and have plausible deniability.

While russians would also have satellite intel, I guess the resolution & capability quantum available to US military surpasses anything. Sat intel has been their cannon fodder for years to police globally.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Deans wrote:Some points about Russian artillery :

There is a shortage of long range drones. They are now using drones from the Ministry of emergencies.
After a while artillery gun barrels have to be replaced or recalibrated. Russia has reached that point. Russian factories doing this have a limited capacity, so they are cannibalizing artillery in storage (so are Ukrainians, who cannot recalibrate or replace barrels). They are making up for lack of spotting and firing accuracy, by saturation fire.

LPR/DPR militia are being supported by artillery of discontinued calibers (122 & 130mm). Russia can't produce more of this, but use up old stocks of guns and ammo to support the militia.

Reserve artillery units have limited firing experience, limited technical knowledge (very little experience as artillery men) and unreliable guns.
However, they have officers with some experience and all spares for guns are made in Russia. It is taking them time to train then under battle conditions and induct them into Ukraine. Ukraine's problem is worse as they have already committed their best units into the fight (who are being killed). They don't have a trained reserve and coscripts will take much longer to master Western systems.
Your very objective analysis is very enlightening.

Going by your analysis - the current artillery bombardment russia is carrying, cant be carried indefinitely. men > artillery rounds > artillery availability - in this order, Russia will reach a point where this will dampen down.

But

1. Will that happen before Ukrainian Military breaks down ? (Is that what russia is playing for?)
2. Or Uk AF breakdown isnt likely (i.e. their losses from 1K/day have been reduced an now UkAF is fighting at attrition levels adjusted to last them till year end
3. If UK AF isnt at those controlled attrition levels, what will it take them to reach those levels and just play ball for time

----

If we have a way to get this...
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

YashG wrote: Your very objective analysis is very enlightening.

Going by your analysis - the current artillery bombardment russia is carrying, cant be carried indefinitely. men > artillery rounds > artillery availability - in this order, Russia will reach a point where this will dampen down.

But

1. Will that happen before Ukrainian Military breaks down ? (Is that what russia is playing for?)
2. Or Uk AF breakdown isnt likely (i.e. their losses from 1K/day have been reduced an now UkAF is fighting at attrition levels adjusted to last them till year end
3. If UK AF isnt at those controlled attrition levels, what will it take them to reach those levels and just play ball for time

If we have a way to get this...
Russia's constraint is not ammo - their production of 152mm ammo is apparently equal to consumption. The problem is the quality of guns (older ones taken out of warehouses) and limited ability to replace or recondition barrels - some of the tooling is imported. This is coupled with
reduced accuracy from both lack of drones and equipment faults.

Ukraine is almost out of Soviet era artillery and ammo and therefore entirely dependent on NATO artillery and ammo. Russia is hoping that:
- NATO supplies reduce rather than increase (and they intercept and destroy more imported supplies).
- Ukrainian casualties cross a tipping point and they come to the negotiating table, before the efficiency of Russian artillery starts falling off
significantly.

Both sides cannot continue this beyond a point. Russia is hoping the Ukrainian daily losses increase (which I believe they are) and once they crack the Ukrainian defense line along the Severodonetsk river (which they mostly have) their progress will be faster.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Photos from Russia MOD showing Snake island evacuation what looks to be under fire.

https://twitter.com/tinso_ww/status/154 ... EAsukYaEDw
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

Behind paywall.

Russia Claims Control of Luhansk as Ukrainian Forces Retreat From Lysychansk

Confirmation from Russia about the Tochka strikes on Belgorod and Kursk, drone strikes on Kursk and Himars strikes on Melitopol and the capture of Lysychansk.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Rakesh »

Don't post articles (or even excerpts) behind paywalls on BRF. These articles are behind paywalls for a reason. I have removed the quoted parts of the article from your post.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

Rakesh wrote:
Don't post articles (or even excerpts) behind paywalls on BRF. These articles are behind paywalls for a reason. I have removed the quoted parts of the article from your post.
Understood. I did not realize that the degree of sensitivity extended to even posting excerpts.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Rakesh »

ldev wrote:Understood. I did not realize that the degree of sensitivity extended to even posting excerpts.
Thank you for your co-operation. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but all it takes is one overzealous dude at the WSJ to whine and the forum could face legal infractions.

You are more than welcome to post your views on the article. Or even provide a summary of the article, in your own words. No issues with that.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

We dont hv to try so hard
heres the same news free - https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/euro ... index.html
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Rakesh »

That also works. Thank You YashG.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Also from the above article ---> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/euro ... index.html
Meanwhile, Ukraine forces said they destroyed a Russian military base in the occupied Melitopol in southern Ukraine early Sunday morning, the city's exiled mayor Ivan Fedorov said in a video address.
Melitopol fell to Russian control in early March, weeks into the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine.
According to Fedorov, Ukrainian troops filed "more than 30 shots exclusively at the military base," rendering it "unable to function."
....
Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement that Ukrainian forces targeted the cities with Tochka-U ballistic missiles with cluster munitions and drones.
Ukraine is trying to expand the axis of their attack. They could have done this before the fall of Severodonetsk/Lysychansk too - if these were really important militarily; Some of the same weapons were available before as well. These look like vanity strikes to coverup the morale from withdrawal.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Every major city has become easier to capture. Mariupol was the toughest, followed by Slavyansk and then Lisichansk. One reason the Ukraine high command did not pull out of the Lisichansk cauldron (but instead kept reinforcing it) was because they believed the city would either not fall, or last for weeks, in the process badly weakening the Russian defenders. It was a reasonable assumption because the defenders were at a height, they outnumbered the attackers (in infantry), the Russians could not use artillery in a big way - since all the remaining population were Russian. The city's defense lasted 2 days. Russian forces say they captured more ATGMs than the number actually fired at them (lot of TV coverage showing captured hardware).

Ukrainian strategy apparently seems to be to weaken Russia more and more with each town they take and withdraw at the last minute to a new prepared defense line, till such time the Russians are weakened enough to launch a counterattack.
Russians learnt from WW2 that if the enemy is pursued quickly, (even if your men need to rest and refit), without giving him a chance to strengthen their next position, they will take far lower casualties. West of Lisichansk, the next Ukrainian town to be defended is Sversk. Let's see if its defense lasts days or weeks.
Last edited by Deans on 04 Jul 2022 09:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

YashG wrote:Also from the above article ---> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/03/euro ... index.html

Ukraine is trying to expand the axis of their attack. They could have done this before the fall of Severodonetsk/Lysychansk too - if these were really important militarily; Some of the same weapons were available before as well. These look like vanity strikes to coverup the morale from withdrawal.
Also to provoke Russia into hitting cities and killing civilians, thereby getting NATO to directly intervene.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

I would be interested in your source for this.

I was on a SM platform with a lady (about 3 weeks ago) that made this her focal argument to claim that Russia will collapse in a month or two. That the Russians will not be able to replace Western techs they were using in time

The same time frame that Gen Ben Hogans (independently) had (although he never said that particular item was an issue).
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by shaun »

Rakesh wrote:
Don't post articles (or even excerpts) behind paywalls on BRF. These articles are behind paywalls for a reason. I have removed the quoted parts of the article from your post.
I guess this is not a paid article
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

NRao wrote:
I would be interested in your source for this.

I was on a SM platform with a lady (about 3 weeks ago) that made this her focal argument to claim that Russia will collapse in a month or two. That the Russians will not be able to replace Western techs they were using in time
There was a Russian podcast by an analyst who gave a specific example of a plant (in Soviet style its simply called Artillery factory no X) set
up to recondition gun barrels. They had imported tooling from Italy. Due to the threat of sanctions, they also designed Russian tooling. Part of its
capacity is on Russian tooling, but its less reliable and with earlier budget constraints, the factory capacity is limited. He gave the example of a Russian factory making 152mm shells which hired people for an extra shift, but this has not happened to the Gun reconditioning factory.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Deans wrote: Ukrainian strategy apparently seems to be to weaken Russia more and more with each town they take and withdraw at the last minute to a new prepared defense line, till such time the Russians are weakened enough to launch a counterattack.
So it comes down to how well Uk'n are able to predict where will russia attack next & build defensive lines. Defensive line buildup needs time, which Uk'n were buying by reinforcing the cauldron. That strategy looks fine, even if it comes at some cost - its the cost paid for being able to live & fight another day.

So again it comes down to A. Costs imposed (on Russia; Russian losses) vs B. Price paid (Uk'n losses).

#1 if A > B, then russia could prevail albeit at a greater loss, but we will see a stalemate in 2 months
#2 if A = B, the also russia prevails and possibly russia being able to gain 30-35% of Uk'n territory
#3 if A < B, Not Likely since Russia is expending 10X greater ammo but in terms of men now Russia might be losing less; at some point of time this is plausible if Ukn runs low on men and russia is able to kick in conscripts.
#4 if A >> B, Ukraine prevails. Unlikely but did happen in first 30 days

Going by whats happening rn, #2 is most likely option. What the west is hoping is that with more intensive weapons/intel support, they will achieve #1 and that is why they do keep on harping - Russia wont be able to sustain beyond a few months. Their hope for battlefield reversals is based on achieving #1 first and then providing Ukn with fresh weapons/aids to start reversal.

That hope is off the table if #2 or #3 happens.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Jul 3, 2022 :: Ukraine's drones are becoming increasingly ineffective as Russia ramps up its electronic warfare and air defenses
* Drones were hailed as a wonder weapon for Ukrainian forces in the early stages of Russia's invasion.
* But experts told Insider that drones are becoming increasingly ineffective as Russia has improved its defense systems.
IMO, "Drones" and "Stealth" are no longer areas to invest funds in.
Last edited by NRao on 04 Jul 2022 21:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Deans wrote:
NRao wrote:
I would be interested in your source for this.

I was on a SM platform with a lady (about 3 weeks ago) that made this her focal argument to claim that Russia will collapse in a month or two. That the Russians will not be able to replace Western techs they were using in time
There was a Russian podcast by an analyst who gave a specific example of a plant (in Soviet style its simply called Artillery factory no X) set
up to recondition gun barrels. They had imported tooling from Italy. Due to the threat of sanctions, they also designed Russian tooling. Part of its
capacity is on Russian tooling, but its less reliable and with earlier budget constraints, the factory capacity is limited. He gave the example of a Russian factory making 152mm shells which hired people for an extra shift, but this has not happened to the Gun reconditioning factory.
Thanks.

After I asked the question to you, I looked into the topic and to my surprise found articles going back to 2020 that dealt with Russians importing high tech gear.

Perplexing and disturbing to note that nations like Russia (and India too) know a critical problem like this exists and yet do nothing despite having the brain power to do so. Articles stated that the Soviets had a very good gig going but fell apart in 1990.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

NRao wrote:
After I asked the question to you, I looked into the topic and to my surprise found articles going back to 2020 that dealt with Russians importing high tech gear.

Perplexing and disturbing to note that nations like Russia (and India too) know a critical problem like this exists and yet do nothing despite having the brain power to do so. Articles stated that the Soviets had a very good gig going but fell apart in 1990.
Causes of the problem for russians and Indians are different. Russian establishment doesnt have the capability to act while Indian establishment doesnt have the intent.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Deans
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Western media is starting to prepare people for the realization that Ukraine is not about to capture Moscow and in fact may be forced to do more
`tactical realignments' (i.e. unplanned retreats).
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

List of losses from Lysychansk rout

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/15116753

english translation
https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy ... k/15116753
"The offensive operation to liberate the territory of the LPR was successfully conducted. Within two weeks, groups were surrounded and eliminated in the Gorsky Cauldron in the areas of Lisichansk and Severodonetsk. < ... > The operation was completed yesterday with the liberation of one of the largest cities of the LPR, Lisichansk. In total, 670 square kilometers of territory were taken under control during active offensive operations. The total losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine amounted to 5,469 people, including 2,218 irretrievable ones, " he said.

According to Shoigu, the Ukrainian Armed Forces also lost 196 tank and armored vehicles, 12 aircraft, one helicopter, 65 drones, six long-range anti-aircraft missile systems, 97 multiple launch rocket systems, 166 field and mortar artillery pieces, and 216 vehicles. "In Lisichansk, the enemy threw 39 tanks and other armored vehicles, 11 guns and mortars," the minister said.

The head of the military department also reported that the city of Lisichansk is currently being cleared of mines, humanitarian supplies are being delivered, and medical care is being provided to civilians.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

Some reports emerging that Russians have found more unused weapons than actually used in the battle.

Also some more Ukraine snake island twitter fakery.

Ukraine said that Russians have been forced out of the island, whereas Russians have said that they have communicated to UN president that they will retreat from Snake Ialnd as a sign of goodwill. This will now prevent the Ukrainian Twitter force from proclaiming that Russians on Snake Island are locking grain shipments to the rest of the world. Let's now see if Ukr will allow the ships to leave Odessa.

Second joke is that, Ukr govt figureheads posted that Ukr soldiers have planted Ukr flag in Snake island, then posted pictures from before the war. When called out by Russians , they sheepishly admitted, a helicopter went to snake island and dropped a flag. This is paki level goat droppings.
When asked why they are not sending the soldiers, they said they do not want to put them in risk for minimal gains. This is a country that has sent dozens of their troops to their death but is now scared to send their troops [48 hrs so far] because they dont want to risk their lives.

I now wonder who withdrew and who won snake island :)
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

^^^brother..I wonder if there is a Snake Island itself!!!!
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by kit »

Interesting.. Russian s do not need to hold Snake island but can kill anyone who gets there .. military equivalent of a mousetrap for the Uke rats
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by John »

Given the Russians where getting pounded they have to retreat they just announced a reason for it and did. The images of abandoned equipment and artillery fire posted by last Russian helicopter clearly showed that. If you want to do it out good will you would have tried to do it in more orderly fashion and bring some landing ships to pull all equipment as well.

Once I believe Ukrainians manage to sneak a SPG on the marshes via boat it become impossible to hold it. Raises question how Russian navy and AF missed Ukr landing ship moving a self propelled gun into place.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

In the early stages of the war specially around their drive towards Kiev, the Russians led with tanks without supporting infantry and the tanks were neutralized by ATGMs such as the Javelin and NLAW. With re-grouping and subsequent focus in the east on the Donbass region, the Russians reverted back to their traditional tactic of pounding an area into submission via saturation artillery barrages and then moving in and occupying the area. This playbook has been followed in the slow but gradual progress in Luhansk so far. The number of artillery pieces and stored ammunition plus maybe as Dean points out, ammunition production capacity, has given Russia an advantage to pursue this tactic. However this tactic is now running up against two hurdles. One as Dean again pointed out is Russia's bottleneck in reconditioning worn out artillery barrels and second is the induction of GPS guided rockets via HIMARS and M270. Although their numbers are small, successful interdiction of their targets which have been Russian ammunition dumps will in time neutralize the Russian advantage in ammunition production and availability. I have seen tweets which indicate that HIMARS has achieved a range of 84 km without losing it's accuracy. Also the Ukrainian tactic is to keep these few pieces of Western artillery constantly on the move and stop only to fire off to coordinates which have important Russian targets such as ammunition dumps or local HQs. In all likelihood un-acknowledged targeting data is being supplied by NATO. Of course the Russian will adapt by moving the ammunition dumps beyond the range of HIMARS but to what extent that will impact their operations remains to be seen if ammunition dumps are located as far as 100 km and more behind the front lines. Targeting ammunition dumps is important, because no matter what the Russian ammunition production capacity is, if a lot of that ammunition is being blown up in bulk at these ammunition dumps, Russian forces will not be able to sustain their mass artillery fires, both for reasons of lack of ammunition as well as lack of reconditioned barrels. I would imagine that the immediate Ukranian objective is slow down the Russian advance in the east via these tactics and if Russia is ground to a halt even after capturing the entire Donetsk and Luhansk districts, I would imagine that would be considered a satisfactory position from Ukraine's standpoint. It could also be considered a victory of sorts by Russia that they have liberated the Russian speaking part of Ukraine. Will the fighting cease after that? It's difficult to predict. Ukranian attitudes towards Russia have undergone a dramatic transformation. A recent poll in Ukraine indicates that 41% of Ukranians want to drive Russia out from all of Ukraine including Crimea and another 41% want to see Russia destroyed. I am sure attitudes have hardened in Russia as well although no western polling agency has been allowed to conduct surveys there recently. Another article which I was reading recently says the war will go on as long as Putin is in power and that it could go on in fits and starts for 20 years, with years of peace, while both sides consolidate and re-build their fighting capacity, punctuated by 12-18 months of fighting in eastern Ukraine, the part now occupied by Russia. Also, as Ukraine is entirely now dependent on the West for supply of arms and ammunition, the other factor is whether the West will pressurize Ukraine to accept a ceasefire once Russia has captured the entire Donbass region, which is it's currently stated objective but keep the pressure on Russia via the sanctions now in place.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

So in hindsight a wise strategic move Idev?
War is but a means to an end is it not.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

idev, lots of details there, what is Ukraine without the coast, Just a pin prick to poke Russia with? when 90+ percent of the grain and 70% of the trade leaves via the ports. what real economy will the nation state of Ukr have without the eastern Industrial heartlands and the ports gone?

When Russia trusted the west and allowed 14,000 Russian speakers to be killed since 2014. They will not make that mistake again. Do you think the Russians will be careful once they reach the Ukrainian speaking part, and do you honestly think the Ukr army will hold onto to their 'OWN' people in buildings when the Russians end up there

The tables will be turned now, when Ukr army actually will be sending their wives and kids out of the conflict zone. what prevents the Russians from razing the soldiers down to carbon.

I personally think Ukraine as a nation state is done but this will be now a 1-2 year operation unless of course we reach a culmination point in the next few months when the ukranians throw in the towel. Let's see how well the soldiers fight when their wives and kids are living in the apt complexes and their lives are now on the line.

When the sh** hits the fan during winter, the core EU will likely tell the new lapdogs [baltic states] to clamp down and shut it. Let's just document this process for the next few months and see where we are in 2023.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Reality has sunk in. The dates are getting elongated.

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ldev »

ks_sachin wrote:So in hindsight a wise strategic move Idev?
War is but a means to an end is it not.
ks_sachin, you mean a wise strategic move by Putin?? Certainly not IMO. In descending order of attractiveness I would list Putin's goals as:

1. Disarm and denazify Ukraine. By denazify he means regime change in Kiev and installation of pro Russian government there. That is not going to happen.

2. Occupy the entire Black Sea coastline all the way upto Transnitra. Looks doubtful now given the state of firepower available to Russia although Russia could make that effort as without at the minimum denying Ukraine sea access, any lesser achievement would be tantamount to a hollow victory.

3. Occupy the Donbass and they seem on their way towards achieving this objective.

However, if Russian forces are exhausted by the time this third objective is achieved, then Putin will spin this as a victory, at least until after a period of recuperation and rearmament a drive is again made for the original objectives. Integration of Belarus is probably on the cards to enable a renewed attack on Kiev at some point in the distant future.

But consider this, IMO Russia's present position is as if India decides to do a Ukraine on BD because of some perceived Chinese activities there and after 5 months of fighting, India gives up on the original objective of capturing Dacca and spins off as a victory the capture of some territory bordering Sylhet and in the meantime is economically sanctioned to the hilt by the West. Would anyone consider that a victory? The military imbalance between Russia and Ukraine at the start of the war IMO was as great as the military imbalance between India and BD and the Russian performance has to be seen in that light.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

The reasons the Russians are taking time to take territory is that the Donbass line is probably the toughest defensive line built (over 7 years) in modern military history. There are fortified urban areas behind a river. The population is mostly pro Russia, so artillery can't be used to flatten cities. AGTM's and MANPADS (in a greater density than any defending side in the history of warfare) would have destroyed any armored advance or helicopter / SU-25 missions. Add to that, Ukraine had been feeding troops into the cauldron, so Russia were content picking them off, instead of closing the cauldron.

Once the defensive line is broken, things become easier for Russia because:
- Terrain is open and conducive to mechanized warfare. Ukraine does not have the fuel or the mechanized forces to counter.
- No strong defensive lines behind the Slavyansk-Bakhmut built up area.
- Ukraine has lost its best troops. Semi trained replacements will find it more difficult fighting than when hiding in a built up area.
- Russian artillery /air strikes can be used more freely, as the civilian population will be mostly Ukrainian.

I think Ukraine knows this, so they would prefer to make a stand in the Donbass, rather than retreat.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

Some of the best defenses, built under the eyes of NATO.

However, per my understanding, those defenses were built only within the Donbas - those Donbas areas controlled by Kiev. Which is why from a military PoV the Donbas is of great importance. Once outside that land mass, then the defenses are not that formidable - like the region towards Odessa or the Odessa Oblast.

I think the next few weeks - end of August - will be very decsive.
YashG
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Via some statements from russian sources: Lack of manpower is reducing the effectiveness of russian attacks. Some of these tasks like cleaning up anti-air weapons in an area bfr CAS need manpower intensive coordination; Even less battle hardened soldiers might be able to do the behind the line work. In pockets russians have done this, in pockets they have not.

If they have to get more effective they will need extra hands on duty for these tasks.

Alternatively Igor Girkin has been asking mobilization efforts in Russia, if this SMO is to be won.
Cyrano
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Can't imagine with what creative warp of reality can they make a case for 'brilliant manoeuvre ' !
YashG
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Deans wrote:The reasons the Russians are taking time to take territory is that the Donbass line is probably the toughest defensive line built (over 7 years) in modern military history. There are fortified urban areas behind a river.
This is the donbas line deans ur talking about ?
Image
Taken from a video by rybar
NRao
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

YashG wrote:
Deans wrote:The reasons the Russians are taking time to take territory is that the Donbass line is probably the toughest defensive line built (over 7 years) in modern military history. There are fortified urban areas behind a river.
This is the donbas line deans ur talking about ?

Taken from a video by rybar
No.

The defenses built over 8 years are a LOT more intricate. They are a whole bunch of pill boxes connected underground by tunnels, loads of ammo dumps, kitchens, toilets, rec areas, etc - pretty much a complete living quarters with defense in mind. A mini town of sorts that can go on for 10-20 miles. Criss crossing across the terrain.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

YashG here is a primer on the type of trenches that Ukr has built over the past 8 years

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