Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
pravula
BRFite
Posts: 360
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 05:01

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by pravula »

Polish premier calls urgent meeting of national security committee

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/po ... 022-11-15/
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

which means hitting Poland is OK. Good.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/15 ... 9HLz45anvQ So what crashed in the village of Przewodów, Poland today?

With the cooperation of
@blueboy1969
we analyzed the available photos of fragments and came to a clear conclusion that they belong to the 48D6 motor of the 5V55-series missile of the S-300 AD system- a Ukrainian one.

Poland & Ukraine play down the attack, say aal is well.
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

Scott Ritter: Ukraine cannot win this war. It's a 'fantasy.'

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Top U.S. General Urges Diplomacy in Ukraine

NYTimes could be behind a paywall.

Two quotes, from General Milley, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff:
I advised the President that the Ukrainians had done as much as they reasonably can ...
and I urged him to bring pressure on Kyiv to negotiate with Moscow
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

IndraD wrote:https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/15 ... 9HLz45anvQ So what crashed in the village of Przewodów, Poland today?

With the cooperation of
@blueboy1969
we analyzed the available photos of fragments and came to a clear conclusion that they belong to the 48D6 motor of the 5V55-series missile of the S-300 AD system- a Ukrainian one.

Poland & Ukraine play down the attack, say aal is well.
I said that when this controversy started:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7888&start=1880#p2570166
There is a decent chance that the missile was a Ukrainian S-300
Russia, knowing its geography very well, does not send missiles aimed at Western Ukraine East-West. They always strike vertically or they are oriented N-S, parallel to the Ukrainian-Polish border. All missiles are error-prone, so they compensate - as best as they can - for errors.
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4513
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Tanaji »

Where is Pakraine getting its stocks of S300 missiles and parts from?
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

documents warn Germany could be 'wiped off the map' over Russian 'existential threats' https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/sh ... f40611d121
Ashocking report has warned that a Russian invasion of Europe is "more likely than ever", adding that Germany could be wiped off the map "at any moment." The Sun reported that the officials in Germany have requested the country to brace itself for an impending war with Russia, amid fears the war in Ukraine will escalate into a global conflict with NATO.

The confidential documents leaked to the German publication Der Spiegel suggest that one of the country's top generals Eberhard Zorn ordered the country's army to put itself on a war footing in the face of "existential" threats.

The 68-page policy paper produced in late September is titled "Operational Guidelines for the Armed Forces".

In it, General Zorn called for the complete overhaul of the German military, and to prepare itself for war.

He wrote: "Attacks on Germany can potentially occur without warning and with great, possibly even existential, damage."
reminds of covid days when useless papers piled and mounted
pravula
BRFite
Posts: 360
Joined: 07 Aug 2009 05:01

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by pravula »

So what happens if NATO considers this an act of war by Ukraine and invades it? Syria redux?
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

Worth a watch. 24 minutes. Col Douglas Macgregor.

Has a lot of small very interesting nuggets, including how Polish soldiers killed Ukrainians:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAuLFpQ3dY
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

pravula wrote:So what happens if NATO considers this an act of war by Ukraine and invades it? Syria redux?
Ukraine is the blue eyed boy in the eyes of NATO.

Nothing is going to happen.
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

This Nov 15 YT by Col MacGregor is really educative about US, Europe, Nato. He astutely points out that the Army is second fiddle to the Navy and Airforce in the US. The army was progressively made weaker than anyone realizes and they don't have the stomach to take high casualities. The entire Nato cannot fight at the level of Russia. Russia is using 20k pieces of artillery per day. The French apparently have supplies that can last only for 4 days of war. The rest of Europe is zilch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8EVMSqbvzU
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by rsingh »

If Germany is gone, all the Norwldic countries will go in neutral mode. French will negotiate. US with all its rhetoric, newer respond uitl US main land is attacked. But instead Germany, UK could be more attractive to Russians.
eklavya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2159
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 23:57

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by eklavya »

NATO will have total air dominance. Russia couldn’t take Kiev and couldn’t hold on to Kherson; how is it possible to talk about Germany, UK, etc.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Kiev was a diversion.
Kherson was a tactical readjustment of the fwd lines.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

time will tell. Ukraine doesn't have airforce and Nato has refused to prop its own (even after Poland was hit). When Nato vs Ru AF breaks out we will know US public reaction when their jet starts falling out of sky from s400 etc. Perception & public anger (& lack of) is important thurst of war.
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by gakakkad »

One of the other things people don't realize is that many Ukrainian generals and top officials would have been part of the red army. They probably use the same training and playbook as the Russians .and even historically they have been good fighters .
Add to the fact that there was considerable hesitance among the Russians to kill fellow Slavic people .
If they are to attack Germany or uk , all that hesitance will be gone . Especially if they attack Germany . And the Germans have been completely defanged and won't even have the stomach to defend themselves.
uddu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2091
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by uddu »

U.S succeeded in creating a Pakistan for Russia. In the decades to come this Pakistan will fight for U.S and keep Russia contained. Sooner or later, you will hear Peace voices coming from U.S. They will not want to escalate it further as objectives are met with regard to Europe and Russia.
Russians did not take Lviv and did not attack from Belarus to cut the supply of men and material leading to this situation. Once war is over, NATO will be in Odessa.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

All this is presupposes that the Russians are a dead nation without any ability to regenerate or even learn from what they are faced with.

The call up of conscripts and the fact that they have not been thrown in to the meat grinder yet should give people pause.

What if the Russians are training those people into an effective fighting force. To be deployed once the land has hardened and mobility for combined arms can be assured.

Do people believe that Ukraine has the ability to prevail in those circumstances.
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4513
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Tanaji »

This is hilarious: a German general writes a report on how Russia will take over Germany and every one is getting their undies in a twist over it. Not a single Russian source has said that this was in the plan and yet we have talk about Nato dominance of air space…
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by gakakkad »

uddu wrote:U.S succeeded in creating a Pakistan for Russia. In the decades to come this Pakistan will fight for U.S and keep Russia contained. Sooner or later, you will hear Peace voices coming from U.S. They will not want to escalate it further as objectives are met with regard to Europe and Russia.
Russians did not take Lviv and did not attack from Belarus to cut the supply of men and material leading to this situation. Once war is over, NATO will be in Odessa.
Exactly. It ll keep Russia in check . And it ll keep Europe on check . In there quest for remaining at the top Yankee war machine has forever disrupted any possibility of world peace .
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

uddu wrote:U.S succeeded in creating a Pakistan for Russia. In the decades to come this Pakistan will fight for U.S and keep Russia contained. Sooner or later, you will hear Peace voices coming from U.S. They will not want to escalate it further as objectives are met with regard to Europe and Russia.
Russians did not take Lviv and did not attack from Belarus to cut the supply of men and material leading to this situation. Once war is over, NATO will be in Odessa.
Just saying .....

NATO has been in Donbas since 2014 !! (All UKR defenses were designed and built under the supervision of NATO. Ukrainian army was trained by NATO - and it *was* formidable, considered to be only next to the Turkish Army.)

They are there even now, operating the HIMARS, and by the admission of the US Defense Department trying to account for the arms sent by the US (yeah). US/UK and perhaps French JSOC are still operating there.

On the German General's report, what is new in that? It has always been said that with the first official/declared NATO boot in Ukraine that the first Russian missile hit would be on the Ramstein Air Base.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Pratyush,

They may learn but this nearly one year of grind will tell on the Russian war machine. And as much as they may learn the i grained character and training and org deficiencies in the Russian armed forces are difficult to fix in war time.

Plus if they had learnt then we would have seen evidencenof this.

Ukraine does not need to win. NATO only needs to keep the Russians bogged down and that they r doing rather well is it not. Russia cannot at this point in time guarantee the safety of its annexed territories and cannot do so into the near future.

We keep criticising the Chinese army for the amount of corruption but forget to apply the same yardstick to the Russian system and its corrosive impact on the armed forces. I presume you saw the video Deans posted.
Roop
BRFite
Posts: 664
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Roop »

uddu wrote:Once war is over, NATO will be in Odessa.
No they won't -- at least not now, having had a chance to see Russia's dogged determination and military/strategic/industrial capabilities of the last 9 months. I think they understand very well that if they do that now, they will be at war with Russia openly and directly. And there is no reason for them (NATO) to believe they could win that war.

But I think there was a time (prior to 24 Feb 2022) when they did plan to do that. It is quite clear from a large number of public utterances by various American neocons and their chelas/chamchas/ass-kissers in UK/Canada/Poland etc. that they thought that engineering a breakup/regime-change in Russia and forcible NATO capture of all Black Sea ports were sensible and reasonable plans. Putin himself was very aware of this risk (in fact, it was more than a risk, it was pretty much a certainty). He gave a speech to a Russian audience (a few months after the successful referendum / annexation of Crimea) in which he said, roughly speaking, "I had no choice. I had to do it. If I had not gone ahead with the capture of Crimea, it was certain that the next time I visited Sevastopol, I would have been greeted at the pier by British/American sailors saying 'Welcome to Free Crimea. This is NATO land, now turn around and get the hell back to Russia' ". I'm sure that video clip is still up on YT somewhere.
Atmavik
BRFite
Posts: 1985
Joined: 24 Aug 2016 04:43

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Atmavik »

ks_sachin wrote:Kiev was a diversion.
Kherson was a tactical readjustment of the fwd lines.

What abt Izyum and lyman? Not to mention Kharkiv
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Atmavik wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Kiev was a diversion.
Kherson was a tactical readjustment of the fwd lines.

What abt Izyum and lyman? Not to mention Kharkiv
Sir everything the Russians have done has a deeper meaning to it. It will all be apparent in time. There was no retreat. It is all fake news. There was only change in strategic direction.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Russia's latest missile strike leaves over 10 million Ukrainians in darkness and cold, attack conincides with the first snow fall https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/ ... an-attacks
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Image
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Is there any parallel in history where the destruction of civilian infra and resultant hardship has caused a country to capitulate?
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

In one word. No.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

(message is Biden won't come with bijli in 2 hands to warm you up)
btw...what was US bombing infrastructure & civilians in Kosov, Iraq etc about? what was the method in madness?
Arima
BRFite
Posts: 155
Joined: 05 Apr 2018 14:45

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Arima »

ks_sachin wrote:Is there any parallel in history where the destruction of civilian infra and resultant hardship has caused a country to capitulate?
They should have gone against political and Military leadership.
remembering the deck of cards prepared by US for Iraq regime and they eliminated each one of them. taking out command and leadership works.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10032
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Mort Walker »

ks_sachin wrote:Is there any parallel in history where the destruction of civilian infra and resultant hardship has caused a country to capitulate?
The destruction of civilian infrastructure makes it difficult for a country to produce materials for war fighting. It may not cause immediate capitulation, but will reduce the capability to produce armaments. It also has the secondary effects of creating hardships on civilians to support a regime that is engaged in war.

The Russians should have destroyed Ukraine’s power plants, bridges, rail junctions, and water supplies back in February before launching any ground offensive.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

IndraD wrote:(message is Biden won't come with bijli in 2 hands to warm you up)
btw...what was US bombing infrastructure & civilians in Kosov, Iraq etc about? what was the method in madness?
The objective is to reduce the ability of the country to run industries and damage economy.

The rest of it is meaning less.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Kosovo is not Ukraine perhaps.

Also what war fighting equipment is Ukr producing?

Are we saying that come winter the UKR population withh turn on Zelensky?
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

I don't think so.
Tanaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4513
Joined: 21 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Tanaji »

Everything requires power from drones to heat to communications devices that need to be recharged. No power means generators and fuel that needs to be carried which stresses the already large supply trail. You also now have to divert people to fix what has been destroyed, resources that could be used elsewhere.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Barbaric!!

#Ukranian fighters recorded themselves executing a large group of #Russians that were taken #POW https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/sta ... Zx9XDicGEg
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Tanaji wrote:Everything requires power from drones to heat to communications devices that need to be recharged. No power means generators and fuel that needs to be carried which stresses the already large supply trail. You also now have to divert people to fix what has been destroyed, resources that could be used elsewhere.
All the responses to my original question are quite interesting and rather anticipated before posing the question.

I was hoping to start a discussion on the efficacy of the Russian strategy and see if the prevalent narrative is backed by historical precedent.

As a tactical or strategic tool does it strengthen or weaken Zelensky’s hand. And by the way if this an existialist question for UKR then what level of deprevation will they suffer.
IndraD
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9305
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 15:38
Location: भारत का निश्चेत गगन

Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

US running low on arms to give to Ukraine – CNN https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/ ... dt-vpx.cnn
Post Reply