Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

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nandakumar
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by nandakumar »

chetak
Your point
"A thought occurred, ..... does all this have any connection to the sudden ameriki "withdrawal" from afghanistan, were the amerikis pushed by the euro goras to scramble out that jehadi hell hole and is a revenge scenario of biblical proportions playing out in europe..."
is spot on. This is what I think. It was known for some time before the actual commencement of the SMO a Russian attack was coming. US wanted to be ready. While they didn't want to actively engage in a conflict they still wanted a demonstration of strength in Europe. In other words the US knew it was coming and it is just that they didn't know exactly when. So they had to assume that it could be tomorrow. Nothing else explains the shamefully hurried withdrawal. Where the calculation went awry was that they thought banning Russian banks from participating in SWIFT would quickly bring Russian economy on its knees. Unfortunately for them, it didn't pan out that way.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

Nandkumar,

Afghanistan and Ukraine are not connected.

Afghanistan withdrawal was a result of an agreement signed between the US and the Taliban. With US not holding Taliban to the complete conditions attached in the treaty.

Ukraine has been planned in Europe since the mid 90s at least.

This is because of a stupid formulation from Brzinsky of Russia being an empire with Ukraine and nothing without it.

The Americans post 91 have disregarded every single concern the Russians had about both Ukraine and Georgia.

Georgia got clobbered in 2008, ending that specific drama.

The US engineered 2014 to reach exactly where we are today. With an expectation that Ukraine will be able to defeat Russians with western help. Thereby, destroying any possibility of Russian re emergence as a great power.

The longer Russians are able to stand alone and fight. The better it will be for them and ultimately defeating the US deep state.

Old EU is just going to get crushed in the process.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by dnivas »

Good Summary Pratyush.
One point to add is that a consequence of crushing Russia would be the breakup of Russia and the assimilation of all its resources. Similar to yeltsin years.

one example is Mikeal Khodrovosky who 'bought' assets in Yeltsin Russia worth billions for about 170-200K dollars. This happened multiple times by US/ Israel based Oligarch's. These criminal western Oligarchs stripped hundreds of billions worth of assets from Russia.

Currently Russia is now fighting more than 20 something western govts and the more time it takes the better its position is going to get. Two days ago, a friend is Germany said she cannot travel to the US because her electricity and food expenses have increased so much that she is unable to save anymore.

Old EU needs to be get crushed and NATO needs to be disbanded and the UK needs to be sunk.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by nandakumar »

I agree with you Pratyush on all points that you have made except for one. The Afghanistan withdrawal could have been more orderly, don't you think,? If it was hurried, why would a professional army and that too, in peace time, do so? Isn't it more logical to think it was dictated by an urgency to project military power elsewhere?
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

nandakumar wrote:I agree with you Pratyush on all points that you have made except for one. The Afghanistan withdrawal could have been more orderly, don't you think,? If it was hurried, why would a professional army and that too, in peace time, do so? Isn't it more logical to think it was dictated by an urgency to project military power elsewhere?

You are thinking that the US cared about how it left Afghanistan.

Remember that nearly 2 years after taking taking over. US still dosent have an ambassador to India.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Lisa »

For reference, in the UK, charge per commercial kWh was 14 pence, new charge as of September is 46 pence and new charge as of mid December will be 94 pence if annual contract is not signed. Therefore annual bill will climb from approximately £3000 PA to in excess of £20,000 PA. All for NATO expansion.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

No substitue of (Russian oil & gas) hydrocarbons, Germany on the way to disaster
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ussian-gas

Say what you will about Vladimir Putin, but his war on Ukraine did open European eyes to some long-underrated truths. One is that even after more than 70 years of relative peace on the continent, neglecting military security poses grave dangers. Another is that the “green dream” of modern economies powered exclusively by renewable energies remains out of reach – and reliable access to cheap energy supplies remains essential.

While the first truth became starkly apparent as soon as Russian troops crossed into Ukraine on 24 February, the second has only gradually penetrated public awareness. In fact, many have called for an embargo on European imports of Russian gas, arguing that this would not only undermine Moscow’s ability to wage its war, but also accelerate progress toward green Nirvana – all at minimal cost to Europe in terms of lost GDP.

A new study exposes this argument for the fantasy that it is. If gas supplies from Russia are cut off, Germany will quite simply no longer be able to produce its 300 most gas-intensive products. To be sure, the study notes that these products can be substituted by imports. But this assessment fails to account for the welfare losses that would result from Germany having to pay much higher prices for these products – losses that would reverberate across the economy.

Due to the terms-of-trade effect, the welfare of consumers of gas and gas-intensive goods would decline as the price of these now-imported items increases. It is only because this price increase is not included in the definition of real GDP that the effects of a gas embargo on European GDP appear small.

Moreover, it is not only direct consumers of the 300 products that would be affected. If, for example, the methanol and ammonia that form the basis of fertilizer production and many other chemical products must be imported from the US, rather than produced locally, downstream and complementary value-added industries in Germany may lose competitiveness. A great many jobs could be affected until a new balance is found. No wonder that BASF, the world’s largest chemical company, has decided to invest up to €10bn (£8.6bn) in a new plant in China.

Substituting renewables for fossil fuels is not the solution many believe it is. Weather-dependent fuels such as wind and solar are simply too unpredictable to power modern economies reliably, meaning that “adjustable” energy sources – coal, gas, and nuclear – remain essential to buffer the volatility by fluctuating inversely to wind and solar power. In a case of prolonged “dark doldrums”, when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining, these sources will even have to meet all energy demand on their own.


The embrace of electric (rather than gas-powered) transport, heating, and home appliances will exacerbate this problem by generating even greater electricity demand, which requires the stock of adjustable energy plants to grow in proportion. For Germany, which is eschewing coal and nuclear, this means gas power plants. But gas is already in short supply, so another solution must be found.

One might argue that this is what batteries are for: collecting energy when it is available, and storing it until it is needed. But while batteries in, say, electric cars will one day be able to smooth out short-term fluctuations in energy access, we are not there yet – not even close. Even with more advanced battery technologies, a day or two without wind or sunshine would bring electric transport to a standstill. Electric cars exacerbate the seasonal buffering problem. How long, then, before we have batteries that can make up for seasonal fluctuations in renewable supplies, storing enough electricity – generated from summer sun and autumn storms – to get not only our vehicles, but our entire economies through the winter?

A more realistic – though still distant – future would depend on hydrogen-fuelled power plants to bridge the gaps left by wind and solar. But if hydrogen is to be produced economically, electrolyzers need a smooth and stable supply of electricity, something they are supposed to deliver themselves. How this dilemma can be solved is still up in the air.


The Ukraine war has ruthlessly exposed the shortcomings of the green-energy transition, forcing countries such as Germany into a real-time energy experiment. For now, they have little choice but to purchase extremely expensive supplies of liquefied natural gas, import and extract more local natural gas, and rely on nuclear energy, produced locally or imported.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by chetak »

Pratyush wrote:Nandkumar,

Afghanistan and Ukraine are not connected.

Afghanistan withdrawal was a result of an agreement signed between the US and the Taliban. With US not holding Taliban to the complete conditions attached in the treaty.

Ukraine has been planned in Europe since the mid 90s at least.

This is because of a stupid formulation from Brzinsky of Russia being an empire with Ukraine and nothing without it.

The Americans post 91 have disregarded every single concern the Russians had about both Ukraine and Georgia.

Georgia got clobbered in 2008, ending that specific drama.

The US engineered 2014 to reach exactly where we are today. With an expectation that Ukraine will be able to defeat Russians with western help. Thereby, destroying any possibility of Russian re emergence as a great power.

The longer Russians are able to stand alone and fight. The better it will be for them and ultimately defeating the US deep state.

Old EU is just going to get crushed in the process.

now this seems to be the new view (November 5, 2022)

U.S. privately asks Ukraine to show it’s open to negotiate with Russia

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... otiations/
WaPo reports that the Biden administration is pushing Zelensky to show Russia that he’s open to talks.

One of the many signs that the US and its allies are struggling to continue the billions in military aid to Ukraine.

Bipartisan support for Ukraine is fading in the US.
As winter fast approaches, the US actions are specifically hurting those who are "allied" with the amerikis who are now being perceived as have crossed some sort of economic and strategic lakshman rekha(s) that seems to hae triggered the euro gora countries, and causing inter country dissentions as also forcing the intra country locals to revolt against their governments. These demonstrations, while also greatly jeopardizing the social and the much vaunted euro union bonds that have, at least publicly, held so far.

Some euro union countries, especially eyetali and poland seem to have chosen their own semi independent paths and have toned down the criticisms of putin and russia, others have rejected the collective front that the euro union is trying to build (Hungary Rejects EU’s ‘Crazy’ Ideas on Energy)
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Kherson shelled by Russia, residents who arrived recently amidst Wapo NYT fanfare are escaping out of hell in trucks, carts & scooters
https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/27/ukr ... rated-city
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

The Guardian article above shows how half baked the understanding of the basics of energy is among Europeans, including the author of the article. On top of it, their elites compound ignorance with ideology. The policy makers at country and especially EU level have a piss poor understanding of the wheels of their own economies, will never admit to mistakes and when reality bites in the bum, they double down !
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

As support for war in Europe wanes, UK rags are back with concocted stories, UK typically at front firing from UN shoulders to mute protest in Europe, articles after articles full of personal stories without any evidence

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... -violence/ Castration, gang-rape, forced nudity: How Russia’s soldiers are using sexual violence to terrorise Ukraine
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

A data point for how Russia is able to sustain this war.

Putin expects special military operation to give unique boost to industries
The head of state said that it was not just about the defense industry but also about related civilian industries
"Plants in Moscow and St. Petersburg, as well as in the Ural, Siberian and Far Eastern regions of our country, are operating at their full capacity, on multiple shifts. In fact, they will <...> give and they are already giving a unique boost to the development of high-tech industries," Putin noted.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Rakesh »

Ukraine is firing so many barrages its artillery pieces are breaking down
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukraine ... king-down/
26 Nov 2022
A third of its artillery force is out of action at any given time, officials say.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Thats how "phokat ka maal" is treated. What they cant sell, they splurge !
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Cyrano wrote:Thats how "phokat ka maal" is treated. What they cant sell, they splurge !
Purely militarily what would expect them to do?
What did we do in Kargil and what attrition did that cause in our Arty?
And what happened when we did not use our most potent weapon?
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

What I want to know is the numbers of PGK equipped and Excalibur rounds fired by the Ukrainian's. Along with the real effects of those rounds on the Russian army positions in the field.

Evidence of HIMARS effect downrange is available in plenty. Both from Russian and Ukrainian sources.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

A good analysis would include the guns Ukraine had prior to Western infusion. Apparently Ukraine has run out of shells for those Soviet era guns, of which they have plenty.

On Excalibur shells only the 4 guns and 10 barrels provided by Canada could use them. Rest M777 were chalu mal from the US and the 55th state of Australia.

Missed: the HIMARS and some of the M777 are operated by Western contractors.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by cdbatra »

I have a question regarding class of a/c fighter bombers like SU-25, A-10 Warthog, Jaguar and Chinese JH-7A . In light of Russia Ukraine conflict what is analysis on utility of this type of airframe over say attack helicopter . It is intreguing because no AF has recently inducted new types or numbers associated with this type. Does newer multirole a/c completely make this type obsolete . I personally don't think so but would like to hear other's views.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

ks_sachin wrote:
Cyrano wrote:Thats how "phokat ka maal" is treated. What they cant sell, they splurge !
Purely militarily what would expect them to do?
What did we do in Kargil and what attrition did that cause in our Arty?
And what happened when we did not use our most potent weapon?
What can I say if you are equating IA in Kargil with AFU composed mostly of hastily trained middle aged conscripts ? :roll:
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by mody »

cdbatra wrote:I have a question regarding class of a/c fighter bombers like SU-25, A-10 Warthog, Jaguar and Chinese JH-7A . In light of Russia Ukraine conflict what is analysis on utility of this type of airframe over say attack helicopter . It is intreguing because no AF has recently inducted new types or numbers associated with this type. Does newer multirole a/c completely make this type obsolete . I personally don't think so but would like to hear other's views.
All of these aircrafts are designed for low level flight and air to ground assault from close range. This role is now becoming too risky.
They are being replaced mainly by a combination of

1). Longer range precision strike air to ground weapons, fired from higher and faster flying air crafts
2). Precision guided rocket artillery and tube artillery shells
3). By attack helicopters with precision guided missiles.

Even for the Helicopters, the risks are increasing and hence the drive to develop precision guided missiles with ranges of about 15-20 Kms, so that they can remain outside the range of manpads and SRSAMS.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by fanne »

just to add, CAS (CLOSE AIR SUPPORT) has a new method, perhaps 10x effective - surveillance drones, suicide drone,and drone delivered munitions. Cheap, effective, 0 risk, instant reach and numerous. It's like the infantry has its own CAS.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »



US, NATO scramble to supply arms to Ukraine, the west tries to refill emptied arsenals
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

The US and Nato face ‘very serious’ weapons crunch that could grind Ukraine’s counteroffensive to a halt https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/th ... 9aca2fd6db
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

A good analysis by Col Douglas Macgregor (ex US Army) on how Rus is devouring Ukraine. The perspective of US leadership (political & military) is laid bare. Ukr Elensky did not speak one word of Ukr language, all he knew was Russian language. He was picked by an Oligarch and thrust into politics.

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Not only by selling it's sovereignty to the US and being corrupt to the core, Ukra-een also peddles hatred of its bigger and ethnically close neighbour out of which it was carved out, by inventing fabulated history for itself and commits atrocities - as Paki as they can get.

Same over exaggeration of military capabilities, lies and deceit to it's own population and the world, no respect for its dead, mutilation of enemy's dead, war crimes...

The US has successfully pakified Ukra-een.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by RoyG »

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Last edited by RoyG on 01 Dec 2022 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by RoyG »

Y. Kanan wrote:
RoyG wrote:However, most likely Russians are going to wait a little longer to launch a massive counteroffensive and push it's borders to the deipner thereby taking East Ukraine.
With what? They're going to launch a massive counteroffensive with what, exactly?
You are looking at it in a vacuum. They won't hold when Russia goes after the rest of their critical infra in the height of winter. Right now they are hitting it here and there to force a settlement. Russia won't require more than a few hundred troops. I treat refugees and they also paint a very bleak picture for East Ukraine and the political regime. It's very different from the dominant western narrative.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

EU chief’s assessment of Ukrainian casualties deleted
Ursula von der Leyen had earlier said around 100,000 Kiev troops had been killed to date
A claim about the number of Ukrainian soldiers killed during the conflict with Russia has been removed from a speech by European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen on the executive’s official website.

“More than 100,000 Ukrainian military officers have been killed so far,” she declared during an address earlier on Wednesday, adding that around 20,000 civilians had also died in nine months of fighting. The source of this information was not provided.

However, her reference to Kiev's death toll soon disappeared from the text of the speech on the European Commission’s website. It was also cut from a video of the address on the website and on von der Leyen’s account on Twitter.

The editing was noticed by some media outlets and social media users, who compared the two versions of the statement online. The move was then officially confirmed by the European Commission.
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/statu ... 0023579648

Comparison between the first video posted by Ursula von der Leyen and the second video that was cut

{You can watch the video of van der Leyen's speech in this tweet}
The EU executive body’s spokeswoman Dana Spinant took to Twitter to thank those who had “pointed out the inaccuracy” in von der Leyen’s speech.

“The estimation used, from external sources, should have referred to casualties, i.e. both killed and injured, and was meant to show Russia’s brutality,” she wrote.

In late September, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu stated that Ukrainian losses had by then amounted to more than 61,000 troops, which was ten times greater than Russia’s.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Cyrano wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:
Purely militarily what would expect them to do?
What did we do in Kargil and what attrition did that cause in our Arty?
And what happened when we did not use our most potent weapon?
What can I say if you are equating IA in Kargil with AFU composed mostly of hastily trained middle aged conscripts ? :roll:
You miss the point. Dont let your ideology blind you to combat reality!
Even a well trained army take risks with equipment when in a shooting match.
And as Deans has mentioned even the Russians are facing the same problem.
So equipment issues are expected. These pieces of weaponry are not something that can be operated withhout some training.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

Poles, Romanians army units are "sheep dipped", i.e. donned in Ukr uniform fighting the Rus. Chatter intercepts by Rus includes polish and romanian languages. 1000s of "sheep dipped" are dead and their nations are asking questions when body bags are returned. These death numbers are besides the ones blurted by Yonder Lying of EU. The Rus armoured brigades are getting good/excellent at sustained warfare, grinding away all the opposition.

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

ks_sachin wrote:
Cyrano wrote:
What can I say if you are equating IA in Kargil with AFU composed mostly of hastily trained middle aged conscripts ? :roll:
You miss the point. Dont let your ideology blind you to combat reality!
Even a well trained army take risks with equipment when in a shooting match.
And as Deans has mentioned even the Russians are facing the same problem.
So equipment issues are expected. These pieces of weaponry are not something that can be operated withhout some training.
Its not clear what point you are making. Collating from numerous sources, the Ukr forces are badly mauled by now and front line troops are filled with a mix of regulars, right wing groups, conscripts, hired contractors, foreign fighters, mercenaries. There are first hand accounts of foreign fighters who speak of how intelligence and tactical info is not properly shared, equipment is not correctly distributed as per mission needs, promised arty support doesn't happen etc. Its hard to say if its the NATO officers unofficially deployed who are calling the shots or AFU officers or someone else. Its a huge cluster foque on Ukr side. Moreover, anyone within the range of Russian forces gets shelled relentlessly, sometimes day and night. In such a situation, whats the probability that Ukr forces are firing arty based on good intel on identified enemy positions based on a well thought out defensive/offensive response strategy?

Russian ex-officers have explained how Ru units use well defined math model calculations to determine how to use arty to saturate a certain number of enemy positions based on their density, response fire etc. and they just dont fire arty blindly hoping something will hit someone just by probability & luck due to area saturation. The RA in Donbass may not be perfect in implementing this doctrine, but they still do apply it because they are a set of coherent and homogeneous units using equipment they have been trained on for years. RA hasn't disintegrated into the personnel chaos like AFU.

So what is the likelihood that AFU is using the arty systems and munitions as optimally as possible? Especially when they aren't paying for it and supplies keep arriving ?

Is any of the situation I described of the AFU akin to what IA had in Kargil? Just because arty is being fired doesn't mean the situations and the responses are same.

So ks_sachin bhai, perhaps YOU have experience of combat reality, presumably In Kargil - so please educate us. Please make some effort and post something really useful instead of replying to others posts with inane one-liners that add nothing original to the discussion, and accusing of ideology, combat reality etc. Your posts are often, frankly, irritating. Thats why I mostly dont respond to your posts.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

I seem to have touched a raw nerve and don’t worry I am not holding my breath waiting for your responses.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by bala »

Russian troops advance in Donbass – Russian Defense Ministry

https://www.rt.com/russia/567443-bakhmu ... y-advance/
30 Nov, 2022
Multiple locations have been liberated on the outskirts of the town of Bakhmut, a major stronghold held by Ukrainian forces, which has seen intense fighting in recent weeks.

"On the Donetsk axis, the settlements of Belogorovka and Pershe Travnya of the Donetsk People’s Republic were completely liberated during offensive actions [by] Russian troops," the Defense Ministry said in its daily briefing, adding that "up to 50 Ukrainian servicemen, four armored combat vehicles, three self-propelled artillery units and six soft vehicles were destroyed."

The village of Belogorovka is a small settlement located some 20 kilometers northeast of Bakhmut. The second settlement mentioned in the briefing is, presumably, the village of Ozaryanovka, located about 12 kilometers south of the town. It was known by the name Pershe Travnya before 2016, but was then renamed under Kiev's ‘decommunization’ efforts.

the Defense Ministry announced the liberation of Andreevka, a village five kilometers north of Ozaryanovka. The acting head of DPR, Denis Pushilin, said that troops have entered the adjacent village of Kurdyumovka. The settlements are located on an important supply route, crucial for the Ukrainian garrison of Bakhmut, he explained, referring to the town by its pre-‘decommunization’ name – Artemovsk.

"These settlements are extremely important because, after sweeping up Kurdyumovka, where the enemy is still resisting, [the troops] will reach the Artemovsk highway, severing the supply routes of the primary Ukrainian battlegroup," Pushilin told.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

ks_sachin wrote:I seem to have touched a raw nerve and don’t worry I am not holding my breath waiting for your responses.
Nothing personal man, but if you have a view point, lay it out with some reasoning. Just quipping one liners is too easy, its the previlege of gurus who have been there and done that. Even they don't do that too often.

There is no ideology in this conflict for me but given our own experience with Pakistan, the pakiness of Ukraine is too obvious to miss.

The forces that made Pakistan a constant irritant to India have repeated the formula with Ukraine against Russia. It's conduct and outcome have ramifications for India.

That's why the interest in this conflict. Not to pick silly fights with fellow forumites.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ks_sachin »

Cyrano, no offence taken.

Lets get one thing straight first - we both are on the same page in terms of the outcomes we want to see.

I recognise you as more of a geopolitical expert and while that is interesting in itself I am more interested in the fighting on the ground. So while I agree with you on the motivations etc of UKR and Pakistan, I am more interested in how they use their resources to prosecute the fight on the ground. The Pakistanis have very successfully mired us in CI for decades now and that has had an impact on us. I will not go into what impacts as there is lot of material on BR already.

Similary they can have hand-me-downs and be rag tag and be brain washed but just dismissing them out of hand is not wise IMHO. The Russians did this and have suffered the consequences. SImilary the structural problems in the Russian armed forces as well as the level of professionalism have been glossed over on this forum IMHO.

Our disagreement stemmed form your statement that the UKR were using the M777 in a careless manner as these were donated to them.

My point is that in the heat of battle esp when you are fighting for survival or have tactical objective imperatives, then SoP and considerations on design limitation are going to fall by the wayside.
NRao
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by NRao »

On the ideology front,

* France has declared that they can no longer send arms to Ukraine
* NYT reporting that Biden willing to conditionally talk with Putin

* Macron in DC has complained that the US is fleecing Europe
Cyrano
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Our disagreement stemmed form your statement that the UKR were using the M777 in a careless manner as these were donated to them.
I've shared some points why I think so above. Ukr has been careless and even malicious on many other matters not just M777s, routinely misallocating material and human resources.

French Caesars - are hardly a dozen were supplied and are being used nearly exclusively to shell civilians in Donetsk. Lots of evidence for that. How exactly does that serve a military purpose? No one, even the French dare question that.

They have lost huge quantities of tanks, arty and vehicles attacking Kherson - until the Russians decided to vacate since the strategic military value of holding on to it was insignificant in the overall scheme of things. With 30k troops they could have held on, but they decided to move out. If Russians consider it militarily unimportant, what has Ukr rolling into Kherson actually achieved besides photo opps and 2 mins news time of Nazi salutes and SBU officers posing as civilians and gloating ? Now they are themselves saying it's a trap because they provide an easy target from across the river.

Most shockingly and sadly the most precious resource Ukr is misusing is soldiers. They did it in mariupol, snake island, then Zaphoriziye NPP, then Liman, then Kherson, in unwinnable counter offensives.

They are careless at every stage because it seems there is nothing they care about militarily beyond the immediate need to stay in the news, either as a dubious hero or a victim. Everything is designed to manipulate NATO opinion and get funds and equipment to keep going as long as it can stretch, who cares what comes after.

They lost nearly all of their own equipment within 3 months and are hanging on NATO supplies ever since. And there is precious little military victory to show for it. And neither Kharkiv nor Kherson are "military victories".

That a lot of equipment of all kinds is being sold on black markets is known for months now. If US has now deployed resources to track provided equipment it's because this has reached huge proportions.

Which army that cares about its soldiers or its country will sell off precious equipment in the middle of a war for survival?!

As per US sources Ukr fires some 7000 shells per day which takes the US a month to produce. Russians are firing 3 times more, but that's because ukr shelling hasn't made the required impact on the enemy. Because ukr shelling is not concentrated at specific military targets to achieve clear objectives.

I doubt if even the Pakis would do this, unless they got everything for free and no one is really looking or asking questions. They both share the same DNA of endemic corruption, civil-military power struggle, obsessive lying and disregard for their own soldiers.

Then why did the west continue to supply? Initially it was hoping these "game changers" will live up to the brochures. Then to avoid quick defeat of their proxy. Now the realisation is dawning that what they hoped - weakening Russia militarily (and economically) is actually happening to themselves. Sunk cost fallacy and absence of an exit ramp to save face have trapped them. Now the good times are almost over.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

From clips on Russian TV - The ground in Ukraine is still not frozen. There's often a meter of liquid mud under a thin layer of snow. No vehicle can move off road. The ground will start freezing from the latter part of Dec, starting from the North (Kharkov area).
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

EU parliament: their Priyanka Gandhi has accepted over 100,000 Ukro soldiers have died and refuses to apologise for it https://www.rt.com/news/567504-eu-ukrai ... s-apology/

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