Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Venkat_kv

What it will do is for the future.

Right now the way Govt has handled it is an own goal.

What trust is there?

You made boys jump through hoops and then suspended recruitment. Then said cancelled because of this scheme. That is unconscionable. If this is true where is the procedural fairness?

You know the amount of confusion that exists?
venkat_kv
BRFite
Posts: 459
Joined: 05 Dec 2020 21:01

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by venkat_kv »

ks_sachin wrote:Cyrano

Gen Oberoi article mentions this civil component. I posted it a few posts above.
Much like OFB MoD won’t take action there…
Ks_sachin Saar,
Didn't the modi govt actually start reducing the number of civilian components with in the armed forces to make it more leaner and more agile fighting force. this was started during the tenure when Bipin Rawat Sir was the COAS, remember reading it on BRF only. Also closed non military aspects of running some milk farms and engineering dept. helmed by civilians.
There is more that needs to be done. It would be great if the retired set of men also present a memorandum to the Defense minister or the defense secretary to address this issue with specific inputs.
ks_sachin wrote:Venkat_kv

What it will do is for the future.

Right now the way Govt has handled it is an own goal.

What trust is there?

You made boys jump through hoops and then suspended recruitment. Then said cancelled because of this scheme. That is unconscionable. If this is true where is the procedural fairness?

You know the amount of confusion that exists?
Anything this govt does is pretty much an own goal saar. Right from demonetization, GST, uri surgical strikes, balakote, caa, farm laws and subsequent rollback along with covid responses are all seen inadequate by its supporters and others when it comes to messaging. The people are not owed a govt job. Notifications are given and cancelled many a time. I think the centre is being made a soft target because they are not violent in their responses. funnily these rules don't apply to various state govts over anything from jobs notification to poll promises.
Seeing all the shouting from the opposition leaders seems this is in the right direction with more reforms that need to be done.
In all the confusion that exists, will damaging public property relieve that confusion? Somehow we seem to give a pass to rioters of all hues for all reasons real or imagined.
Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 338
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Hari Nair »

venkat_kv wrote:
Hari Nair wrote:
That's your personal opinion.
What works for the Army cannot be jettisoned overnight.
Your opinion cannot be the writ overnight, period!
......

I have a record of the Air Chief responding to reporters asking him - what happens to the ongoing process of airmen recruitment - there are candidates who have already given their exams and appeared for selection?
The answer given- I am paraphrasing - It has been decided that all the existing IAF airmen exams - their results will cease to exist. All entries will now be through Agnipath.

It appears rather obvious that this is a top-down decision that is not in consonance with ongoing processes.
Hari Nair Saar,
It was also said in these discussions that IAF and Navy seem largely exempt from Agnipath scheme as they have lot of technical stuff in their jobs and the infantry arms are the ones mostly affected. So how and why will the airmen be taken in through Agnipath scheme?

I just want to know the background. there are pros and cons to everything I guess no matter how minutely everything is analysed. Do we have a better option from the services itself. reducing the civilian pensions and moving the armed forces into NPS system for pensions seem to be a workable idea (and this assumes that there might not be any opposition to moving into NPS type scheme). but is that also sustainable in the long run when inflation and absolute numbers in the terms of retirements and salaries that will swell in the next 5-10 years?
The Air Chief is on record stating that the Airmen selection process is being suspended midway. He further states that all (including present) candidates will need to re-apply under the new Agnipath scheme.

Answer to your first Q - It appears by inference that all new IAF entrants will be through Agnipath scheme. A four year tour of duty for technical manpower is insane. Given the leave and other benefits, the effective stay at operational sqn level will be around 3+ years. That is FAR too less to master the complex systems on modern aircraft. There is no clarity on how the IAF or Navy plans to tackle this contradiction. The very fact that ongoing selection processes have been suspended midway clearly shows this is a top-down decision and a very poorly though out one at that.

Answer to your second Q - Yes, there are other sensible options, the Gen Shekatkar Commitee had given very clear recommendations. That report should have been dusted off, re-assessed and re-applied in today's context.

We need to clearly understand that the problem today is that a lot of Army infantry battalions are already operating minus one company strength (a Bn has three Coys). What we need to tackle first is the teeth-to-tail ratio. and talking about the tail, you rightly pointed out the civilian appointments in the MoD and other offices - totals more that 3,00,000, if I recall the numbers correctly. Their pensions are from the defense pension account and a very hefty percentage at that.

The armed forces also have a tail that needs to re-assessed and cut down. However, that needs to be done in a considered manner - this sledge-hammer application indicates a fundamental lack of appreciation or even a could-not-care-less attitude.

Remember the slow Russian advance in Ukraine is primarily to lack of Russian manpower superiority (quantity & quality) over the Ukrainians.

It is really incredible that this Govt or ours has rolled out such a scheme which is very obviously 'decision first, details later.' Such a ham-handed approach obviously throws the entire system into turbulence, which will be exploited by other parties and agencies to add to the chaos. The transition to whatever new system should have been well thought out, seamless and with little turbulence. Today, it is very obviously the exact opposite.

It takes years and decades to build a good and effective military. However, hare-brained and poorly thought out manpower induction policies can wreck it within the next five years.
Last edited by Hari Nair on 18 Jun 2022 12:25, edited 1 time in total.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

So continue doing that. There was lot more opportunity there but you should speak to Gen Oberoi. I just posted his article so take it or leave it.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Hari Nair sir is it not 4 Rifle companies per Bn.

Also you talked about technical manpower in IAF what about Armd corps / Arty etc do you think they will be ready and proficient tankers / topchis or even combat eng in 4 years?
venkat_kv
BRFite
Posts: 459
Joined: 05 Dec 2020 21:01

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by venkat_kv »

the news trickling out from telugu lands is that atleast the mayhem run in the railway station was masterminded by coaching academies that seem to think that if this 4 year service is brought in, then a lot of kids might not opt for it as its no longer a permanent source of job/lucrative career and that would ultimately result in the reduction of candidates joining their centers and even less in fees/money for them.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12196
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

ks_sachin wrote:Hari Nair sir is it not 4 Rifle companies per Bn.

Also you talked about technical manpower in IAF what about Armd corps / Arty etc do you think they will be ready and proficient tankers / topchis or even combat eng in 4 years?
I am under the impression that the selection will be on the basis of aptitude..

So the service pick should be as follows.

1) technical arms. ( Aviation, Armor, Arty, Signals, Engeneering, etc. )
2) the rest would be infantry.

People with technical competence should be able to be trained in the standard training program.

The 25 % retention at the end of 4 years has the potential of building a strong NCO cadre. Which should provide core of junior leadership for the service.
Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 338
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Hari Nair »

ks_sachin wrote:Hari Nair sir is it not 4 Rifle companies per Bn.

Also you talked about technical manpower in IAF what about Armd corps / Arty etc do you think they will be ready and proficient tankers / topchis or even combat eng in 4 years?
I stand corrected - however it is still a 25% deficit instead of 33+%, and is still terrifyingly bad enough.

You are right on about the Armoured Corps and & Arty. A 3+ year effective tenure of an average soldier through Agnipath will not really be of any substantive value to those Arms.
venkat_kv wrote:the news trickling out from telugu lands is that atleast the mayhem run in the railway station was masterminded by coaching academies that seem to think that if this 4 year service is brought in, then a lot of kids might not opt for it as its no longer a permanent source of job/lucrative career and that would ultimately result in the reduction of candidates joining their centers and even less in fees/money for them.
As I said earlier, if an establishment or Govt goes in for a decision that is a one-shot, sharp change without any transition and with poor communication, then it will leave the system open to turbulence, which will be exploited. That is the nature of the ecosystem of a democracy. Very amateurish for not having analysed this through and through, don't you think?

Let's zoom a bit out of the picture - it now appears that even the Army's Officer and OR ongoing recruitment process have been cancelled- affecting at least 5,000 young fellas in Kerala:
https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ke ... -1.7616371

Which further buttresses my earlier point that this has NOT been well thought out and is a top down - Decision first, details later way of doing business. Its going to backfire and perhaps in no small measure.
ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 494
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ritesh »

They are fast becoming a rollback govt... Spineless and gutless. Gaining and creating credibility takes time but losing doesn't. Whatever, we need to ensure congi and other regional satraps don't benefit out of this and an alternate dharmic alternative can be found.
sanjayc
BRFite
Posts: 1091
Joined: 22 Aug 2016 21:40

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by sanjayc »

Ex-serviceman running coaching academy instigated Secunderabad protests: police
On the day Agnipath was announced, Avula Subba Rao released a video saying the government might drop regular, long-term Army recruitment and that the pending written test was as good as cancelled, according to police.

Avula Subba Rao, the man who railway police say had instigated youths to attack railway stations in Hyderabad, is director of ASR’s Sai Educational Institutions and Defence Academy, which gives coaching for military aspirants.

Hailing from Narasarapeta in Palnadu district of Andhra Pradesh, Rao started his academy at his native place, and later set up nine branches for the academy in other parts of the state and Telangana. He is well regarded for designing his academy’s coaching module, which along with the tough fitness training led by former defence personnel, is credited with getting hundreds of youths into the armed forces.

Many of the youths who turned up at the Secunderabad railway station on Friday and indulged in violence and arson are from his academy.

Rao, who has B Sc and B Ed degrees, had served in the Army for 18 years before starting ASR’s Sai Educational Institutions and Defence Academy in 2020. Apart from those from Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, students from Odisha, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka also study at his academy. At least 500-1,000 aspirants from the academy join the Army, Navy, Air Force, CRPF, CISF, ITBP and the BSF.

Additional director-general of police (railways, Telangana) Sandeep Shandilyasaid that Rao was instigating his students to protest. “He was the one who directed the youths to take petrol, iron roads, and sticks to the railway station. He mobilised the youths from various places in Telangana to go to Secunderabad and participate in the protest,’’ Shandilya said.

The railway police shared the information with the Andhra police on Friday night, and Rao was picked up from a hotel in the early hours of Saturday and taken to the II Town police station for questioning. The police seized his mobile phone suspecting that it had been used to create the WhatsApp groups from which calls for the Secunderabad protest were allegedly made.

Shandilya said that one of the WhatsApp groups was named “Hakimpet’’. “An Army recruitment drive was held last March at Hakimpet on the outskirts of Hyderabad, where at least 3,000 youths cleared the physical and medical tests and were awaiting the written test. A majority of those aspirants were from the Sai academy branches in Adilabad and Karimnagar. We have seen several WhatsApp groups in which the youths from this academy and a few other academies in Karimnagar were mobilised for the Friday attack at Secunderabad,’’ Shandilya said.

Police officials have learnt that Rao had arrived in Hyderabad from Guntur on Thursday evening. The railway police have also identified five youths who brought petrol used to set railway coaches on fire. Based on CCTV footage taken from the railway station, at least 34 other protesters have been identified.

The police officials said that on the day the Centre announced the Agnipath recruitment programme, Rao released a video on social media stating that the government might drop regular, long-term Army recruitment and that the pending written test was as good as cancelled. Aspirants at his academies, who had paid hefty fees for the training, started sending out incendiary messages on WhatsApp groups allegedly created by Rao and a few others, fearing that Agniveer would rob them of their chances to join the Army.

Considering the scale of the investigation, the Secunderabad railway station attack case will be transferred to the Hyderabad city police, Shandilya said.
https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... e-7977368/
ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

venkat_kv wrote: The govt of the day doesn't owe anybody a govt job . if people are only angling for govt jobs then well good luck under present economic and global circumstances. people have attacked school buses and kids and damaged railways. Aren't they supposed to go and protest in front of army recruitment center or any Central govt center to voice their displeasure if they are truly anguished over notification.
Welcome to 60 years of deracinated rulers continuing the edifices of the British combined with socialist utopian notions of Europe. For me, these "transformations" could not have been done soon enough. IOW: The faster the better.

The real rub of the matter is the lack of investments in industry and quality education, trade for the masses for nearly 200+ years. Joining the forces in a decent economy would not be the first preferred option but attractive for those who would like to serve. It is ditto in the case of the SSC officers, who would really like permanent commission - underlying reasons are the same. There is a deeper issue prevalent in all these and it is fear. We as Indians need to revive the spirit of Hanuman, the spirit of the Vedas - the qualities of Abhayam!

I will end my denunciations here. Thanks.
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2510
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Deans »

How difficult is it to announce that anyone found rioting (or posting on SM) will be permanently ineligible for any Govt job ?
Nikhil_Naya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 61
Joined: 06 Nov 2018 16:44

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Nikhil_Naya »

I have had a fair share of interactions and even worked with a few ex-servicemen. What I am penning down could be mildly offensive and my apologies in advance.
While most people who were from the officer cadre, are looked upon in corporates as leaders they do have a fair bit of adjusting to do. Example, we had an admin person who was Ex Army - had served in active zones (NE mainly). He ran the office like a 'military' style work - everything on time, everything following protocol/ rules etc. The challenges started coming in when the company transformed from an old school heirarchy, to a flatter heirarchy and 'work done' became more important than 'time logged'. This change became too much for him to manage and he quit - and this was after he being in civvies for a decent amount of time.
We also had a lower ranking person working with us for a bit. He had spent close to 18 years in the forces and had chosen to take disabilty 'exit' on account of diminished hearing. The biggest challenge we faced with him was that there was no 'additional' effort - a given in most corporate setups. Like if you told him that he had to type 10 lines of data and then sum a column and provide his thoughts - he would type exactly 10 lines,then come back and ask which column should the sum be added to (considering tht there was only one possible column)...Tough working with him in a dynamic environment. But he excelled in tasks where he was told 'exactly' what to do.
The 4 year period, will make these guys disciplined, hard working (hopefully) and still leave them malleable enough for industries of the future.
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2510
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Deans »

I share the forum's angst over the number of defense civilians and their privileges. However, those roles have to be filled and we cannot wish away
civilians. In the US the ratio of civilians to uniformed personnel is higher than India.
Two things Govt could look at is inducting the Agniveers into defence civilian jobs and also outsourcing some of those jobs to the more efficient
private sector (which to some extent is happening in defense production).
SriKumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2243
Joined: 27 Feb 2006 07:22
Location: sarvatra

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by SriKumar »

Hari Nair wrote:
As I said earlier, if an establishment or Govt goes in for a decision that is a one-shot, sharp change without any transition and with poor communication, then it will leave the system open to turbulence, which will be exploited. That is the nature of the ecosystem of a democracy. Very amateurish for not having analysed this through and through, don't you think?
Indeed, speaking in general terms and not specific to Agnipath anything else, any major new policy or change in existing policy is pretty complicated by definition, especially in a large country where people from different walks of life will be affected differently. There should be a mechanism in the government to get public comment or input before a policy is rolled out as 'fait accompli'. Is there such a mechanism existing? I have no idea. If one does not exist, this is certainly a major weakness in the system. There are things people/public will pick up that the politicians and babus will have missed. Things like this can happen again (whether or not there is rioting in the aftermath of policy change).
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2510
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Deans »

Nikhil_Naya wrote:I have had a fair share of interactions and even worked with a few ex-servicemen. What I am penning down could be mildly offensive and my apologies in advance.
I have recruited both ex officers and PBORs and had similar experiences.

I wanted my VP of Operations to have only one qualification - he had to be an officer from a fighting branch of the army. I recruited 2 Lt Cols in 2 companies I worked in. The first, from the Armored corps, had just left the army and had a harder time adjusting. Similar to your experience. He left when he felt unable to change his style. The 2nd - from the Infantry and a Kargil veteran, was really good. Changed his style to be more informal. Hero worshipped by some of his boys. My head of Security was ex CRPF. Hired after my shortest ever interview, because he shot dead a terrorist. He has gone on to bigger things.

Army brats had one big advantage - the ability to interact with people from any part of India. Army daughters worked well in HR or customer
facing roles.

At PBOR level, I found ex Navy and Air force people more comfortable with computers and office roles compared to their army counterparts.
dsreedhar
BRFite
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Jan 2011 06:57

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by dsreedhar »

From what it seems Modi's advisors need to be referred to basics 101 of change management. Ideas and schemes are good but failing at public/stakeholders acceptance and implementation. There will be always resistance to change. Especially with BIF who oppose anything Modi govt does. Now thats a given and need to be accounted for. With some appropriate steps the mass confusion and intensity of the resistance can be reduced and maybe effectively managed. Govt was very good and effective in implementing article 370 abrogation and Ram mandir. But off late slipping away.

Today there is a dire need of a policy to effectively handle rioters. As Dean sir and others suggested put restriction to govt jobs and future govt benefits.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Deleted
Last edited by ks_sachin on 19 Jun 2022 00:03, edited 3 times in total.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

Deleted
Last edited by ks_sachin on 19 Jun 2022 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10390
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Yagnasri »

Anyone with an FIR against him or convicted is not getting any job from any Gov department or PSUs today. There will be police verification before an appointment letter is issued. So there is no job for these rioters if they are identified. At least in Hyd/Sec cases, many were identified. I will be surprised if they are not arrested and sent to jail pending investigation for a few days at the most.
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1994
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by bala »

10% of Defence Ministry jobs to be reserved for Agniveers

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 539621.ece

18 June, 2022
In new ‘Agnipath’ scheme for recruitment of soldiers into the armed forces, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh on Saturday approved a proposal to reserve 10% of the job vacancies in Defence Ministry for ‘Agniveers’ meeting requisite eligibility criteria. “The 10% reservation will be implemented in the Coast Guard and defence civilian posts, and all the 16 Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSU). This reservation would be in addition to existing reservation for ex-servicemen,” the Defence Ministry said in a statement. The announcement was made after Mr. Singh chaired a meeting with the three Service Chiefs at his residence. “The 10% reservation will be implemented in the Coast Guard and defence civilian posts, and all the 16 Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSU). This reservation would be in addition to existing reservation for ex-servicemen,” Mr. Singh’s office said on Twitter. Necessary amendments to relevant recruitment rules will be undertaken to implement these provisions, his office said adding, “DPSUs will be advised to make similar amendments to their respective recruitment rules. Necessary age relaxation provision will also be made.

Ministry of Home Affairs too announced a decision to reserve 10% vacancies for recruitment in Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) and Assam Rifles for Agniveers and also give three years age relaxation beyond the prescribed upper age limit for recruitment in CAPFs and Assam Rifles. Further, this upper age relaxation has been extended to five years for the first batch of Agniveers, it stated. Earlier in the day speaking at the TV9 global summit, Mr. Singh termed the Agnipath scheme as a ‘transformative reform’ and noted that several Government departments have announced priority in selecting Agniveers, upon completing of four years, for their recruitment processes and added that If they want to do any other work, then they will also be given the facility of loan at a cheaper rate. Mr. Singh also stated that Agniveer is not just the name of bringing new recruits in the armed forces but they will also be given the same quality training that soldiers are getting today. “Training time may be short but there will be no compromise in the quality,” he added.

On Tuesday the Government announced the “Agnipath” scheme for recruitment of the youth in the armed forces for four years, after approval by the Union Cabinet and the age bracket for new recruits was fixed at 17 ½ to 21 years of age. This led to massive protests and violence across several states and late on Thursday evening the Defence Ministry announced a one time upper age limit relaxation for the recruitment process through Agnipath scheme for 2022 to 23 years citing the fact that it was not possible to undertake recruitment during the last two years due to the pandemic. Army Chief Gen Manoj Pande had stated that that training of first ‘Agniveers’ will begin in December 2022 and active service will commence in the middle of 2023. The Government has said that the recruitment process will commence in 90 days and about 46,000 young men and women are to be taken in this year.
viveks
BRFite
Posts: 341
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 06:01

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by viveks »

4 period on contractual bases. What motivation is the young lad going to give to go through all the training when he has to think what he is going to do next after that? It is like getting into BE school, where people end up doing completely different things and treat a Bachelors degree as a stepping stone. I dont even think anyone would interested in joining.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12196
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

viveks wrote:4 period on contractual bases. What motivation is the young lad going to give to go through all the training when he has to think what he is going to do next after that? It is like getting into BE school, where people end up doing completely different things and treat a Bachelors degree as a stepping stone. I dont even think anyone would interested in joining.
Then don't join.

No body ows anyone a job.
bala
BRFite
Posts: 1994
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by bala »

Agnipath protests: Railways says 200 trains affected so far, 35 cancelled

https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes. ... d/92279530
June 17, 2022
Over 200 trains have been affected so far due to the protests against the Agnipath scheme for recruitment in the armed forces, the Railways said Friday. Around 35 trains have been cancelled while 13 short-terminated since the protests erupted on Wednesday, the national carrier said. The worst-hit East Central Railways -- which covers Bihar, Jharkhand and parts of Uttar Pradesh, the states which have witnessed widespread protests - has also decided to "monitor" the operations of eight trains due to the agitations. The officials said they are keeping an eye on the movement of these trains and will take decision on their operation as the situation evolves. These trains include: 12303 Howrah - New Delhi Poorva Express, 12353 Howrah - Lalkuan Express , 18622 Ranchi - Patna Patliputra Express, 18182 Danapur - Tata Express, 22387 Howrah - Dhanbad Black Diamond Express, 13512 Asansol - Tata Express, 13032 Jaynagar - Howrah Express and the 13409 Malda Town - Kiul Express. Two ECR trains that have been cancelled are -- 12335 Malda Town - Lokmanya Tilak (T) Express and the 12273 Howrah - New Delhi Duronto Express. Details about other cancelled trains were not immediately available.

Several trains run by the North Frontier Railways also pass through the ECR jurisdiction and three of them are also hit, the railways said. Angry mobs have targeted trains and railway property in their protests against the Centre's Agnipath scheme for recruitment in the armed forces on a short-term contractual basis. Coaches of three running trains in the ECR and one empty rake in Kulharia (also in the ECR) were damaged by violent protestors. One coach of a stationary train was also damaged in the washing line at Uttar Pradesh' Balia. Damages to fixed asset are difficult to be assessed at the moment, railway officials said. In Balia, raising slogans 'Bharat Mata ki Jai' and 'Agnipath Wapas Lo (withdraw Agnipath scheme)', protesting youths set an empty train on fire and vandalised a few other trains, prompting the police to lathicharge them. Reports of agitators vandalising the Secunderabad Railway Station and setting a trainset ablaze have also come in.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush wrote:
viveks wrote:4 period on contractual bases. What motivation is the young lad going to give to go through all the training when he has to think what he is going to do next after that? It is like getting into BE school, where people end up doing completely different things and treat a Bachelors degree as a stepping stone. I dont even think anyone would interested in joining.
Then don't join.

No body ows anyone a job.
Ain't nobody risking their life and career for a 4 year contract job with an abyss staring at the end of the career. Nobody owes anyone their life.

Especially when the employer is penny pinching with 4 years of service so they can avoid paying gratuity for 5 years or more of service.

IMO some basic changes would have made the scheme very attractive.
- increased duration of service, say 7 years.
- Mandatory tradesman training / technical diploma (wireman, fitters, electronics / field communications, mechanics, basic programming, civil construction), some during the duration of service and some at the end.
- College reservations with fees waiver (like the US GI Bill)
- Reservation in government jobs, especially police, CAPFs etc. Clerical jobs in Govt., PSB, Insurance etc. would also be good.

Make them employable after their service. Just don't give them a golden handshake and leave them hanging. Otherwise all you would have is unemployed youth with weapons training, no goal in life and nothing to lose.
ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 494
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ritesh »

Why can't this govt bring something similar to SSC of officers for Jawans? Much less controversial and could have been easier to sell the idea as well.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

Hari Nair wrote:
venkat_kv wrote:
Hari Nair Saar,
It was also said in these discussions that IAF and Navy seem largely exempt from Agnipath scheme as they have lot of technical stuff in their jobs and the infantry arms are the ones mostly affected. So how and why will the airmen be taken in through Agnipath scheme?

I just want to know the background. there are pros and cons to everything I guess no matter how minutely everything is analysed. Do we have a better option from the services itself. reducing the civilian pensions and moving the armed forces into NPS system for pensions seem to be a workable idea (and this assumes that there might not be any opposition to moving into NPS type scheme). but is that also sustainable in the long run when inflation and absolute numbers in the terms of retirements and salaries that will swell in the next 5-10 years?
The Air Chief is on record stating that the Airmen selection process is being suspended midway. He further states that all (including present) candidates will need to re-apply under the new Agnipath scheme.

Answer to your first Q - It appears by inference that all new IAF entrants will be through Agnipath scheme. A four year tour of duty for technical manpower is insane. Given the leave and other benefits, the effective stay at operational sqn level will be around 3+ years. That is FAR too less to master the complex systems on modern aircraft. There is no clarity on how the IAF or Navy plans to tackle this contradiction. The very fact that ongoing selection processes have been suspended midway clearly shows this is a top-down decision and a very poorly though out one at that.

Answer to your second Q - Yes, there are other sensible options, the Gen Shekatkar Commitee had given very clear recommendations. That report should have been dusted off, re-assessed and re-applied in today's context.

We need to clearly understand that the problem today is that a lot of Army infantry battalions are already operating minus one company strength (a Bn has three Coys). What we need to tackle first is the teeth-to-tail ratio. and talking about the tail, you rightly pointed out the civilian appointments in the MoD and other offices - totals more that 3,00,000, if I recall the numbers correctly. Their pensions are from the defense pension account and a very hefty percentage at that.

The armed forces also have a tail that needs to re-assessed and cut down. However, that needs to be done in a considered manner - this sledge-hammer application indicates a fundamental lack of appreciation or even a could-not-care-less attitude.

Remember the slow Russian advance in Ukraine is primarily to lack of Russian manpower superiority (quantity & quality) over the Ukrainians.

It is really incredible that this Govt or ours has rolled out such a scheme which is very obviously 'decision first, details later.' Such a ham-handed approach obviously throws the entire system into turbulence, which will be exploited by other parties and agencies to add to the chaos. The transition to whatever new system should have been well thought out, seamless and with little turbulence. Today, it is very obviously the exact opposite.

It takes years and decades to build a good and effective military. However, hare-brained and poorly thought out manpower induction policies can wreck it within the next five years.
Sir in which case, how did the service chiefs sign on the dotted line for this proposal especially for the IAF and IN? They are very platform centric. Even the IA Chief should have had this restricted to branches which did not have a stringent technology component.

Truly worrisome.
saip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4231
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by saip »

viveks wrote:4 period on contractual bases. What motivation is the young lad going to give to go through all the training when he has to think what he is going to do next after that? It is like getting into BE school, where people end up doing completely different things and treat a Bachelors degree as a stepping stone. I dont even think anyone would interested in joining.
As I said before they DO get a lumpsum payment which if invested (I know it is too much to expect of them as they seem to be dumber than donkeys - sorry, donkeys) properly will give them TEN times income than the pension they are complaining of not getting. Someone said this income is not inflation adjusted while the pension is. No really. If they plow back the income (after spending only the amount they would get as pension) into the corpus, this income too would more than beat the inflation. Besides, these donkeys would only be 23-25 years after the 4 year stint and they still can work in regular jobs. And this income would be extra bonus.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

The attacks on Railways could become a wartime toolkit for anti nationals along the Freight Corridors and effect Military mobilization and logistics.

Need to declare 50km Railway Protection Force jurisdiction along the railway tracks.

Similar to the 50 km zone for BSF along the borders.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Deans wrote:How difficult is it to announce that anyone found rioting (or posting on SM) will be permanently ineligible for any Govt job ?
it's a given but to say so now when times are inflamed would be political suicide.

The next and obvious demand will be to withdraw all cases filed against them

that was also how the "farmers" agitation also ended with the same demand that all cases filed against them be withdrawn.

but the Air chief has said that rioters will not be eligible for the agnipath recruitments
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

WA
Nitish & KCR let Bihar-Telangana burn but they are not even in the top 15 states that send personnel to the Army by proportion.

Clearly it's not the army aspirants rioting but anti social elements propped up by local opposition Govts.

they should both be accommodated as the president of India for half a term each by rotation.
remember how tejaswi yadav accompanied "kerosene" pappu to oxford.

looks like a BIF toolkit is in play
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

@ARanganathan72 · 10h

Amendments and additions to the Agniveer scheme after it was launched:

1. Upper age limit extended.

2. UGC skill recognition declared.

3. Bank loan priority notified.

4. 10% CAPF vacancies reserved.

5. Open schooling certificate announced.

6. 10% MoD job vacancies reserved.
what stopped them, should these have not been thought through during the “2 years of consultation” and incorporated before unveiling the scheme.

some babooze is sabotaging this because the finer details of release would have been left to them for "administrative" reasons.

pappu knew of this well in advance because he spoke of the govt "sprinkling " kerosene all over the country when he was gaslighting India at his recent oxford jamboree.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

#FranklySpeakingWithNavyChief

'Agnipath scheme was not something that was just taken out of the blue. It's a scheme made in India, made for India ...', Admiral R. Hari Kumar, Navy Chief in conversation with @NavikaKumar on #FranklySpeaking https://t.co/pWWWsIPvkF
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

this is the state of the BJP in bihar, in the words of the Bihar BJP chief Sanjay Jaiswal on Agnipath protests

he is pointing the finger directly at nitishwa.


@ANI · 9h
Nothing wrong with opposing, but targeting people at the behest of administration, torching offices of a particular party with police acting as spectators is wrong.

What isn't happening in India is happening in Bihar.

I oppose it: Bihar BJP chief Sanjay Jaiswal on Agnipath protest
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

"India is doused in kerosene, all that’s needed is one spark."

Rahul Gandhi uttered a these words less than a month ago.

Since then there have been fires & mass violence all over India.

First over Nupur Sharma.

Then over Agnipath.

This cannot be a coincidence.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Chetak please post that map.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

chetak wrote:
@ARanganathan72 · 10h

Amendments and additions to the Agniveer scheme after it was launched:

1. Upper age limit extended.

2. UGC skill recognition declared.

3. Bank loan priority notified.

4. 10% CAPF vacancies reserved.

5. Open schooling certificate announced.

6. 10% MoD job vacancies reserved.
what stopped them, should these have not been thought through during the “2 years of consultation” and incorporated before unveiling the scheme.

some babooze is sabotaging this because the finer details of release would have been left to them for "administrative" reasons.

pappu knew of this well in advance because he spoke of the govt "sprinkling " kerosene all over the country when he was gaslighting India at his recent oxford jamboree.
Fits and starts implementation and lousy messaging by the babucracy is a given with this admin. Self-sabotage at its best.
We've seen it time and again, and its become tiresome. Modi admin's reliance on the chalta-hain babu crowd and their inability to fix the glaring gaps seen is their biggest weakness.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32283
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Agnipath (Tour of Duty): News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Chetak please post that map.

Image


Imagevia@EkVishwa
Post Reply