Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 15 Dec 2022 19:13

Right signal has been sent in backdrop of border flare up.

Better video of night launch.

https://twitter.com/srdmk01/status/1603 ... 20449?s=19

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 15 Dec 2022 19:21

The test was carried out to validate new technologies and equipment on the missile which is now lighter than before. The trial has proved the capability to enhance the range of the Agni-5 missile, if required: Defence sources

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/16033821 ... SzutA&s=19

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Dec 2022 19:25

Agni-V,

First Test - Apr. 19, 2012. Successful launch
Second Test - mid-September, 2013. Ms. Tessy Thomas said it achieved 'pin-point, single-digit accuracy. Successful launch.
- May 2013, Dr VK Saraswat said 'MIRV is at design stage'
Third Test - Jan 31, 2015 (Last working day of DRDO Chief Dr Avinash Chander). Successful Canisterized launch.
Fourth Test - Dec. 26, 2016. Successful Launch.
Fifth Test - Jan. 18, 2018 First 'user-assisted' test. Successful Launch. Accuracy achieved was 'a few metres'.
Sixth Test - June 3, 2018. Successful Launch
Seventh Test - Dec. 10, 2018. Successful Launch. Launch operations carried out by SFC in the presence of DRDO.
Eighth Test - Oct. 27, 2021 Conducted completely by SFC after induction. Night time launch. Successful launch.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Dec 2022 20:12

Glad that the test was conducted in-the-face of the chinese spy ship. They would have gotten a close dekho of the accuracy, speed etc. The "range can be increased as needed" would be correlated by the data that the ship collected. The people who need to get the message would have gotten the message

Who knows - perhaps the Tawang incursion, alongwith the spy ship might have been to assess whether India would go ahead with the test. We have, in the past, postponed tests just because some foreign dignitary is visiting.

No such luck this time for the enemy

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 15 Dec 2022 20:18

dinesha wrote:India just launched something from the coast of Orissa .. What is this some kind of rocket or missile
#agni5 #missilelaunch #india

https://twitter.com/Rich_Satoshi/status ... -bAgw&s=19

Just a day after Chinese spy ship left the Indian Ocean region.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 15 Dec 2022 21:10

Former DRDO group director confirms MIRV capability on Republic TV.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 16 Dec 2022 00:35

Best I've seen video shot.

https://twitter.com/singh_srishtic7/sta ... 39264?s=19

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Dec 2022 02:05

RoyG wrote:Best I've seen video shot.

https://twitter.com/singh_srishtic7/sta ... 39264?s=19

Thanks. While the video is speeded up, one comment below mentions that it is the third stage igniting.. how do people tell just by looking at it?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2022 02:15

I wrote that.

BTW did you see the separated stage falling as a yellow dot in the right-hand corner of the video?

I can even tell the approximate altitude at which it happened based on how the plume expanded so much.
It is nearly 300K feet where there is less atmosphere to confine the plume.
All third-year engineering.
N^3 would give the exact height!

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Dec 2022 02:20

Thank you ramanaji, yes I did. But how does one know its the third stage? Based on prior videos of other launches? I was under the impression that third stage ignition was not visible from ground as it is high up. I suppose it is during a clear night launch as this one is…

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2022 03:01

https://twitter.com/ramana_brf/status/1 ... Tz36Q&s=19

Detailed image analysis by Gagan

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2022 03:20

RoyG wrote:Right signal has been sent in backdrop of border flare up.

Better video of night launch.

https://twitter.com/srdmk01/status/1603 ... 20449?s=19

Tanaji,
This one shows the second stage ignition around 65 sec.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Dec 2022 10:05

This missile/vehicle is proving to be puzzle. This missile is supposed to travel from Odissa to nearby area of Australia.

But

1) People had seen this from Mizoram.
https://twitter.com/sharmaAvl/status/16 ... wsrc%5Etfw

2) People had seen this from Myanmar.

https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet ... 1773468673

Is it really a ballistic missile? Is it due to clear sky and the height to which it travelled made it visible from Mizoram:!:
Are we testing some, Anti Satellite missile in the name of Agni?

Whatever it is. After a long while, this missile test evoked the hyper feeling that i was used to have in the years 2003 to 2012.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Dec 2022 10:12

That’s no ballistic missile.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 16 Dec 2022 10:51

The chung ching was here exactly to find out what it was

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Dec 2022 11:36

Weird, the above pics almost look as if after some altitude the Missile went on some Horizontal Hypersonic path rather than a mere ballistic path.

Well if we want to really speculate the Chinese found a Meteorite crashing down a few minutes after the Missile launch.

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/sta ... 1083060230

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... Nif5oz#_=_

The BD are saying they saw this at 12:00 AM, did we silently launch a K-5 a few hours after Agni-5?

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 16 Dec 2022 11:55

Hope some NASA satellite circling moon find some missile like foreign object in their surface next.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 16 Dec 2022 12:59

There is nothing unusual and seem to be the high altitude plumes of a staged vehicle. Vandenberg AFB launches are visible from LA as well as in far away Arizona.

Link

Usually a sudden flare happens during stage separation when upper stage ignition bounces off the still surging lower stage. It becomes very prominent and bigger for the upper atmosphere separations

But there is a lot of unseemly chatter… wonder what got proofed? That prominence given in reports about significantly lower first stage weight is the only open source delta since last launch

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Dec 2022 14:45

The video from Mizoram was very interesting, the Missile did not seem to follow a ballistic flight profile , or escape the earth atmosphere, the missile was almost moving parallel to the earth say 50 km altitude.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 16 Dec 2022 15:58

hnair wrote:That prominence given in reports about significantly lower first stage weight is the only open source delta since last launch

hnair, the 2nd & 3rd stages were always CFRP. Is the 1st stage also CFRP now?

If we recall, A-3's weight was also considerably reduced after the first flight. Ms. Tessy Thomas made a particular reference to that..

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 16 Dec 2022 18:18

My theory has always been that these border incursion by the Chinese are intended to make it appear to the the rest of the neighborhood that India cannot guarantee their security. In other words, it's a psychological game to win over the SAARC countries without firing a shot.

The Chinese were actually beginning to win until Dokhlam. This changed the game forever and showed the Chinese that we were willing to enter foreign territory to defend the collective territorial interests. This was critical and since then have been giving resolute response.

Now coming to this test, it was timed to be properly visualized and that too before Bangladesh Independence Day. It's a signal to the neighborhood that we are willing to go all the way, not only for our own territorial integrity, but for theirs as well.

The Chinese want to preempt this with a Galwan style conflict and with these pesky Intrusions by their tracking ships in bay of Bengal. It's a mind game which are winning.

williams · Post by **williams** » 16 Dec 2022 22:42

RoyG wrote: It's a signal to the neighborhood that we are willing to go all the way, not only for our own territorial integrity, but for theirs as well.

I think we proved that in 1971 itself when we were hardly in the big boys club. But this is nice for optics even though the test is never a reaction to either their ding dong ship or kabbadi game played in Tawang.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2022 23:07

From Prasar Bhrati

N-capable Agni-V night trials successful: Targets beyond 5000 km not far anymore

Validating the country’s military and technological prowess, India successfully carried out the night trials of the nuclear-capable Agni-V ballistic missile on Thursday. The test fire was conducted from the APJ Abdul Kalam Island off the coast of Odisha.

https://twitter.com/PBNS_India/status/1 ... 8974681088

The night trials of the Agni-V ballistic missile came days after the recent clash between the Indian Army and China’s PLA troops at the Tawang sector along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) at Arunachal Pradesh.

According to the Defence Ministry, the Agni-V surface-to-surface ballistic missile is capable of hitting targets beyond the range of 5000 km with a high level of accuracy. With Agni-V, India has joined the gang of countries that boast of Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles that includes the US, Russia, Britain, China, and France.

The Agni-V ICBM

The nuclear-capable surface-to-surface missile Agni-V has been designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The missile, with the capability to hit targets beyond the range of 5000 km, uses a three-stage solid-fuelled engine.

With its long-range capability, the Agni-V ballistic missile can supposedly cover almost all of Asia including some regions in Europe.

The missile can also be carried by a road-mobile truck, allowing the mobilization of missiles across the country easily. The ICBM missile’s first user launch was conducted in October last year from APJ Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha. The test fire of Agni-5 was in line with India’s stated policy to have ‘credible minimum deterrence’ that underpins the commitment to ‘No First Use’.

The Agni Series Missiles

Earlier this year, in June, a successful training launch of the Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM), Agni-4, was carried out at approximately from APJ Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha. The Agni-4 IRBM has a range of around 4000 km. Other missiles in the series, that include Agni 1-3, have the capability of engaging targets within a range of 700 to 3000 km.

The successful night trial of the Agni-V ballistic missile is a boost to India’s nuclear deterrence against the ever-changing and emerging threats of the era.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2022 23:07

This should end doubts

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Dec 2022 02:31

williams wrote:
RoyG wrote: It's a signal to the neighborhood that we are willing to go all the way, not only for our own territorial integrity, but for theirs as well.
I think we proved that in 1971 itself when we were hardly in the big boys club. But this is nice for optics even though the test is never a reaction to either their ding dong ship or kabbadi game played in Tawang.

We are playing a diff game today.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2022 04:31

https://twitter.com/PBNS_India/status/1 ... xl5RQ&s=19

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Dec 2022 20:12

20% weight reduction with composite first stage puts it at 40T. With the lighter 125/175KT TN warhead in our inventory range is >8000km.

Fun will come w/ MIRV bus + decoys and more energetic propellent to reduce the boost phase intercept window.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 17 Dec 2022 20:50

India's Agni missiles can strike beyond 7000-km range.

Days after the successful trials of the nuclear-capable Agni-5 ballistic missile, India has now developed the capability to strike targets beyond the range of 7,000 kms.

Sources in the defence establishment told ANI that the Defence Research and Development Organisation has been able to reduce the weight of the Agni-5 missile by replacing steel content with composite materials.

"The weight reduction that has been achieved in the missile system is beyond 20 per cent and if the government wants, the nuclear-capable strategic missile can go beyond 7,000 kms," they said.

Sources cited the example of the Agni-3 which weighs around 40 tonnes and can strike targets at 3,000 kms but the Agni-4 weighing slightly more than 20 tonnes can cover a much longer range.

The extended range of the missile which is part of the Strategic Forces Command will give a variety of options to the planners during times of conflict.

India's nuclear weapon programme is mainly for deterrence against its adversaries including China and Pakistan as it has a no-first-use policy.It has been strengthening the second strike capability and is also working on the development of a submarine-launched ballistic missile.

The sources said the decision to test the missile for its new maximum possible range will have to be taken by the government.

India on Thursday had successfully carried out night trials of the Agni-5 nuclear-capable ballistic missile at its full range of 5400 kms.

The test was carried out to validate new technologies and equipment on the missile which is now lighter than before.

In October last year, India carried out the successful launch of the surface-to-surface ballistic missile, Agni-5 from APJ Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha.

The missile, which uses a three-stage solid-fuelled engine, is capable of striking targets at ranges up to 5,000 kilometres with a very high degree of accuracy, the defence ministry said in a statement.

The successful test of Agni-5 is in line with India's stated policy to have 'credible minimum deterrence' that underpins the commitment to 'No First Use', it had said.

In June 2018, India had first successfully flight-tested Agni 5 from Dr APJ Abdul Kalam Island (Wheeler Island).

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 17 Dec 2022 21:07

Vips wrote:India's Agni missiles can strike beyond 7000-km range.

Days after the successful trials of the nuclear-capable Agni-5 ballistic missile, India has now developed the capability to strike targets beyond the range of 7,000 kms.

Sources in the defence establishment told ANI that the Defence Research and Development Organisation has been able to reduce the weight of the Agni-5 missile by replacing steel content with composite materials.

"The weight reduction that has been achieved in the missile system is beyond 20 per cent and if the government wants, the nuclear-capable strategic missile can go beyond 7,000 kms," they said.

"Beyond" 7000km.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Dec 2022 21:52

A-3 weight reduction was over 50%.

The Chinese always claimed that A-5 was 8000 Kms. They will now say that it is >10K Kms now. Han muh mein ghee shakar.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2022 22:23

A 20 % weight reduction basically makes it a new missile.
The reason is for the same propellant loading, the vehicle accelerations will be much more than the earlier Jayalalitha version.
So it would require the requalification of many components, especially the payload section which will see significant change.
Also, it would give a true ICBM range of 13K km.
And to test a 13K km missile to nearly half would mean a lofted trajectory.
The test pictures show it was quite flat.
Now it is possible that a depressed trajectory is more stressful on the aero vehicle as its flight is through the atmosphere for the majority of its flight.

So taking all this together, it is a true ICBM.

The last line just flashed into my mind as I was typing.
Jai Mata di!

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 17 Dec 2022 22:48

'Over 7,000km range': Why India's latest Agni V missile trial sends strong signal to China

Sources in the defence establishment told news agency ANI that the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been able to reduce the weight of the Agni V missile by replacing steel content with composite materials.
"The weight reduction that has been achieved in the missile system is beyond 20 per cent and if the government wants, the nuclear-capable strategic missile can go beyond 7,000 kms," they said.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Dec 2022 22:51

ramana wrote:A 20 % weight reduction basically makes it a new missile.
The reason is for the same propellant loading, the vehicle accelerations will be much more than the earlier Jayalalitha version.
So it would require the requalification of many components, especially the payload section which will see significant change.
Also, it would give a true ICBM range of 13K km.
And to test a 13K km missile to nearly half would mean a lofted trajectory.
The test pictures show it was quite flat.
Now it is possible that a depressed trajectory is more stressful on the aero vehicle as its flight is through the atmosphere for the majority of its flight.

So taking all this together, it is a true ICBM.

The last line just flashed into my mind as I was typing.
Jai Mata di!

India can hit anywhere apart from the Americas now. This is where the SSBN force comes in handy. 4-6 boomers are critical for global coverage.

We can use 125KT TN due to size. 4-6 warheads per MIRV bus for K class slbm. This test was diff. Signal that we are part of elite club which can project deterrence to any part of globe.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 17 Dec 2022 23:01

Ashokk wrote:'Over 7,000km range': Why India's latest Agni V missile trial sends strong signal to China
Sources in the defence establishment told news agency ANI that the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has been able to reduce the weight of the Agni V missile by replacing steel content with composite materials.
"The weight reduction that has been achieved in the missile system is beyond 20 per cent and if the government wants, the nuclear-capable strategic missile can go beyond 7,000 kms," they said.

What they mean is if GoI wants we can target American landmass.

williams · Post by **williams** » 17 Dec 2022 23:06

"The weight reduction that has been achieved in the missile system is beyond 20 percent and if the government wants, the nuclear-capable strategic missile can go beyond 7,000 kms," they said.

This maya and leaks will continue. Just the govt limits the missile's range but sometimes things go out of control of this limit.

For the very first time, we have a true ICBM. A decade ago we only knew how to re-enter and provide guidance systems. At that time this was just a baby rocket that creates fireworks and demonstrates the technology. We don't have any enemies in the West, it is the East we are worried about.

And for that purpose, the range is exactly 5400 km nothing more nothing less.

williams · Post by **williams** » 17 Dec 2022 23:37

Who are we kidding

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 18 Dec 2022 00:13

That's great news regarding Agni V - glad that the true range (it might be understated even now) is being openly declared!

Looking at the Minuteman III specs, I am curious as to how the missile weighs so less (for something designed decades ago). I was looking up the stage information - 1st stage is steel, 2nd titanium and 3rd is fiberglass. How did they achieve such a low weight & high range without composites in all 3 stages? Is it some magic propellant?

Either that or Agni V's true range is 10K Km!!

P.S. Agni IV, which weighs just 17 tons, has a 4000 Km range

ernest · Post by **ernest** » 18 Dec 2022 00:53

All this range talk reminds me of a graph created by Arun S during the early testing days of Agni 3. Went to search for it, and found it on (usual offender) defence news website, who have copied it without credit. just a small image though. From this graph, Agni 3 was itself capable of ICBM ranges with one nuclear warhead. The warhead weight of 1.5 tonne was too much for a single unit.

williams · Post by **williams** » 18 Dec 2022 01:53

It is not just the American ICBM. Russian ICBM (Topol-M) also has a similar stated weight. Agni Vs range is not clearly stated for geopolitical reasons should be the conclusion.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Dec 2022 02:16

Prem Kumar wrote:That's great news regarding Agni V - glad that the true range (it might be understated even now) is being openly declared!

Looking at the Minuteman III specs, I am curious as to how the missile weighs so less (for something designed decades ago). I was looking up the stage information - 1st stage is steel, 2nd titanium and 3rd is fiberglass. How did they achieve such a low weight & high range without composites in all 3 stages? Is it some magic propellant?

Either that or Agni V's true range is 10K Km!!

P.S. Agni IV, which weighs just 17 tons, has a 4000 Km range

Good q. I think it has something to do with the overall american strategy of using unitary or 3 warhead MIRV bus and increasing the overall missile count to ensure first strike survival. Because of the warhead limit the bus is smaller and you can design a missile which is more conical thereby shaving the weight.

Based on my reading we are at about the same dimensions and weight of the w62 warhead for a maximal yield of 175-200KT TN design. It appears as though we have a requirement for a higher MIRV bus weight to accommodate more warheads and decoys to overcome abm countermeasures which have matured considerably in the last couple decades. So the dimensions naturally had to increase for the missile to accommodate the increase requirement.