Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4451
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by rsingh »

What are we testing between 16 and 19 Dec?
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 868
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by MeshaVishwas »

The lungi dance commences: :twisted:
The exercise was initiated by the Indian Air Force by launching smart anti-airfield weapons (SAAWs) from its Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter aircraft on a target.
Credits to Kapil Kajal/Janes

Order details here:

viewtopic.php?p=2462699#p2462699
Varoon Shekhar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2178
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

"The exercise was initiated by the Indian Air Force by launching smart anti-airfield weapons (SAAWs) from its Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter aircraft on a target."

Are these SAAWs the Indian made ones, that have been tested over the last few years?
Last edited by Varoon Shekhar on 23 Nov 2022 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
Varoon Shekhar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2178
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 23:26

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Reports of Agni-3 missile being tested

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/15954351 ... _&ref_url=
hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4633
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by hnair »

Varoon Shekhar wrote: Are these SAAWs the Indian made ones, that have been tested over the last few years?
Yes. Its main intention is to take out at stand-off ranges, the pakis’ extensive investments in dispersed HAS at their major airbases. Earlier it needed overflights

An Indian answer to SDB2 of khan. A single MKI can carry over 20 of these bad boys, so a flight of them can take out these F16 staging areas even if under HAS

Image
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Vips »

India successfully test-fires Agni 3 missile.

India successfully performed the training launch of the Agni-3 Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile(IRBM) from APJ Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha on Wednesday.

The test of Agni-3 was a part of routine user training launches which are performed under the aegis of the Strategic Forces Command. The launch was carried out by scientists for a predetermined range and stood on all the standards and operational parameters of the system.

Third entrant in the Agni missile series, Agni-3 was first tested on 9 July 2006. However, it was not a successful launch. The missile test fired succesfully in its second flight which took place in 2007. The missile also performed as per the standards in its third consecutive launch that took place in 2008. It has a range of 3,500 km and has the capability of carrying warhead weighing as much as 1.5 tonnes.

Due to to its high range of circular error probable(CEP), Agni-3 missile is known as world's most accurate strategic ballistic missile of its range class. With a high range of efficiency in its target, the war head can be a lethal weapon for the enemy. The accuracy of the nuclear warhead also provides an opportunity of deploying larger number of nuclear force using less fusion material. The low weight of the payload has increased the target range of the missile to 3,500 kilometre.

A month ago, India also successfully test fired the new generation advanced version of Agni missile series, Agni Prime. Also known as Agni-P, the nuclear-capable new-gen advanced variant has a maximum range of 2,000 kilometre.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

What a confusing reporting by Live Mint.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

To be fair, IAF in 2006 or so issued a requirement for small and large stand-off bombs after assessing Kargil air operations. The paper was posted in these threads.
The SAAW got approved for funding in 2013!!!
And IGB was also approved and tested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Sm ... eld_Weapon
I say Kargil because look at the warhead modes for SAAW.
And 80% of targets can be destroyed with a 250lb weapon.
Only hard target air shelters etc need a heavier charge.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

Vips wrote:India successfully test-fires Agni 3 missile.

India successfully performed the training launch of the Agni-3 Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile(IRBM) from APJ Abdul Kalam Island, Odisha on Wednesday.

The test of Agni-3 was a part of routine user training launches which are performed under the aegis of the Strategic Forces Command. The launch was carried out by scientists for a predetermined range and stood on all the standards and operational parameters of the system.

Third entrant in the Agni missile series, Agni-3 was first tested on 9 July 2006. However, it was not a successful launch. The missile test fired succesfully in its second flight which took place in 2007. The missile also performed as per the standards in its third consecutive launch that took place in 2008. It has a range of 3,500 km and has the capability of carrying warhead weighing as much as 1.5 tonnes.

Due to to its high range of circular error probable(CEP), Agni-3 missile is known as world's most accurate strategic ballistic missile of its range class. With a high range of efficiency in its target, the war head can be a lethal weapon for the enemy. The accuracy of the nuclear warhead also provides an opportunity of deploying larger number of nuclear force using less fusion material. The low weight of the payload has increased the target range of the missile to 3,500 kilometre.

A month ago, India also successfully test fired the new generation advanced version of Agni missile series, Agni Prime. Also known as Agni-P, the nuclear-capable new-gen advanced variant has a maximum range of 2,000 kilometre.
Did it actually fly for 3,500 kms ?
If launched from Wheeler Island / Dr Abdul Kalam centre, 3,500 km would be close to Australian west coast
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

rsingh wrote:What are we testing between 16 and 19 Dec?
Agni 5 / 6 / ??

Tathastu
neeraj
BRFite
Posts: 372
Joined: 12 Jun 2001 11:31
Location: UK

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by neeraj »

IAF set to place Rs 1,400 cr order for new age missiles to destroy enemy radars
In a major push to induct indigenously developed weapon systems, the Indian Air Force has moved a proposal worth over Rs 1,400 crore to the government for acquiring Rudram next-generation anti-radiation missiles (NGARM) to search and destroy enemy radar locations, informed defence officials.

"A proposal for acquisition of advanced missiles developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation is with the Defence Ministry and a high-level meeting would soon be taking a call on it," defence officials told ANI.

The next-generation anti-radiation missiles have already been tested by the Indian Air Force from its Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft fleet and can destroy enemy radar locations during conflicts, they said.

The destruction of radar systems can help the Indian Air Force to strike targets without detection, the officials said.

The NGARM can be fired from IAF fighters like the Sukhoi-30 and the Mirage-2000. It is accurate and has been developed with the capability to even track a radar system even if it is not operating.

NGARM is India's first indigenously developed anti-radiation missile that has a speed of Mach two or twice the speed of sound.

The tactical, air-to-surface anti-radiation missile is equipped with a passive homing head that tracks sources of radiation of a wide range of frequencies. It can lock into a target not only before launch but also after it has been launched.


The NGARM induction would be a big boost for the Indian Air Force as it would help the force prepare for future wars with indigenous weapon systems.

Recently, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari stated that based on lessons learnt from the Ukraine-Russia war, the Indian Air Force would be focusing on inducting 'made in Indian weapons'.
Last edited by ramana on 25 Nov 2022 09:26, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

KaranM or Haridas,

Can the Rudram/NGARM be fired in air-to-air mode at a Paki/PLAAF AWACS?
I note it can be fired from Su-30 MKI and M2K planes.
What would be its range in A2A mode?
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Great news, though the order size seems small for our 2 fronts. Its for 80 units.

A couple of things stand out:

1) Unit cost is $2M+, which is almost 10X the cost of US HARM. Though, to be fair, the newer variations of HARM cost $1M+. I hope this is the cost amortization of Rudram R&D effort + any infra/training setup. It also shows the power of mass-production. Over 23K units of HARM were produced. That's the kind of volumes that will make the cost come down to 1/10th of what it is today

2) Not sure why this missile weights 600 Kg, compared to HARM's 360 Kg for similar range and warhead weight. Maybe dual-pulse rocket motor? Still, it seems like there is scope for more R&D to reduce weight so that a single Sukhoi can carry more of these

3) Future variants must have dimensions that can fit into AMCA's internal payload. This was a requirement for the newer HARM-ER variant - for it to fit into the F-35 internal bay

Hoping for more orders (just like for Astra-1), so that all the above improvements can happen
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

ramana wrote:KaranM or Haridas,

Can the Rudram/NGARM be fired in air-to-air mode at a Paki/PLAAF AWACS?
I note it can be fired from Su-30 MKI and M2K planes.
What would be its range in A2A mode?
Yes it can, with structural mods. Range depends on alt R sir. Higher alts max range (15km, easily 150km).
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

Prem Kumar wrote: 2) Not sure why this missile weights 600 Kg, compared to HARM's 360 Kg for similar range and warhead weight. Maybe dual-pulse rocket motor? Still, it seems like there is scope for more R&D to reduce weight so that a single Sukhoi can carry more of these
It's not a HARM, but far better. That's all that can be said on the matter. Su-30 can carry 6 of them already. Quite sufficient.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

It looks like the specs of Rudram-1 is similar to those of the new generation HARM-ER - in terms of range, warhead, seekers etc. But the latter seems a more compact missile. Not dissing Rudram-1 of course. But am arguing for more orders, which will fund further development to make it a lighter, faster, more compact missile.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

What is the performance of the "best" pakistani SAM ? Max range ? Max altitude ?
We must have a ARM which can be launched beyond the above values
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

What news about the Harpy and Harop anti-radiation loitering munitions we got from the Israelis ?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

Prem Kumar wrote:It looks like the specs of Rudram-1 is similar to those of the new generation HARM-ER - in terms of range, warhead, seekers etc. But the latter seems a more compact missile. Not dissing Rudram-1 of course. But am arguing for more orders, which will fund further development to make it a lighter, faster, more compact missile.
A "lighter or more compact missile" would be a step back, given the targets Rudram is meant to go for. There is no direct eqvt of the Rudram, 1 to 1, in the WW market. The seeker devpt of course is a valid issue and needs to keep improving with more orders, R&D funds.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Can you clarify some more on what exactly is the role for Rudram-1 and why no equivalent exists (if these can be discussed in an open forum)?

Is there a specific need for a heavy A2G missile? I can imagine bunker-busting role for instance, but all open source info defines its role to be purely ARM (& the seekers like PHH are optimized for that role)

This is what Indranil had tweeted in 2020
Actually, Rudram I is in testing already. Most probably NGARM based: Same propulsion and warhead, but different seeker. Except very fast induction. I don't know why such a missile is so hush-hush though
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by JTull »

Yeah, I would also like to understand the mission profiles for Rudram-1.
ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4053
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ArjunPandit »

Rudram is an anti radiation missile, would be used to for SEAD/DEAD. My sense is heavyily defended/fortified static radars..not sure if it can be used for moving targets
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Yes, it is designed to take out mobile radar units too, because it has an active MMW seeker. It has INS/GPS + PHH + MMW seekers. Its our first dual-seeker missile - very sophisticated!

I don't understand the weight - why it needs to be so heavy. Its like KH-31P which weighs 600 Kg, but the latter is booster + ramjet powered, which we know from the Akash experience, makes the missile heavy. The dual-pulse Astra is a good comparison and weighs 150 Kgs. So, even given its A2G role, bigger warhead and additional seeker, something doesn't compute with the 600 Kg weight
RajaRudra
BRFite
Posts: 344
Joined: 17 Sep 2019 14:13

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by RajaRudra »

Can we test this radiation missiles in real war situation. May be Azarbaizan - Arminia is a good place to test many of our works.
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by JTull »

What I find interesting is the 6 Rudram-1 that can be carried by Su-30MKI.

Does the aircraft have any capability to detect and classify ground based emitters, and then cue this heavy load of missiles?
....If it doesn't then
........Su-30MKI will take-off with pre-programmed coordinates, OR
........it will be cued by another airborne platform specialising in such capability (This is a significant capability addition in itself)

....If it does then it will be a SEAD/DEAD hunter-killer with two mission profiles
........to bait and fry any emitter
........Escort and protect Balakot type missions

Suppression is the key to the first lock in achieving Air Superiority.
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by YashG »

Kersi wrote:What is the performance of the "best" pakistani SAM ? Max range ? Max altitude ?
We must have a ARM which can be launched beyond the above values
That would be ideal scenario. Practically in many scenarios you can be within SAM range and still release ARM.
like - you could do nape of earth flying and then gain altitude to launch missile and exit the theatre
OR in the fog of war even though you have been detected but target has not been verified - where theatre has multiple bogeys and SAMs.

There could be more scenarios.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

Prem Kumar wrote:Can you clarify some more on what exactly is the role for Rudram-1 and why no equivalent exists (if these can be discussed in an open forum)?

Is there a specific need for a heavy A2G missile? I can imagine bunker-busting role for instance, but all open source info defines its role to be purely ARM (& the seekers like PHH are optimized for that role)

This is what Indranil had tweeted in 2020
Actually, Rudram I is in testing already. Most probably NGARM based: Same propulsion and warhead, but different seeker. Except very fast induction. I don't know why such a missile is so hush-hush though
Don't want to discuss attributes of any Indian weapons in open forum. Very little chance opponents don't understand it anyway. But why risk it.

I would prefer though, the DRDO adds Spice type EO seekers to the Rudram-1 as well with auto target recognition.

Indranil was going off available info at that time. Rudram 1 is NGARM. They are one and the same.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

There were some earlier reports (circa 2017) that the NGARM was too short-legged (like 70 Km range) for the IAF''s liking. So, I think there has been an evolution of the missile over time. Turnaround seems to have been fast. The IAF seems quite happy with the Rudram-1 performance.

On a different note, NOTAM issued for 5400 Km in the Bay of Bengal! Speculations rife that its either a K4 test or an Agni-V test
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Vips »

Prem Kumar wrote: On a different note, NOTAM issued for 5400 Km in the Bay of Bengal! Speculations rife that its either a K4 test or an Agni-V test
K-4 does not have range of 5400 Km. This may be either Agni VI with MIRV capability or K5.
Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Vips »

Army Tests Extended Range BrahMos Cruise Missile From Andaman And Nicobar Islands.

The Indian Army tested a BrahMos supersonic cruise missile from the Andaman and Nicobar (A&N) Islands earlier today (29 November).

An extended-range version of the missile was tested by the Western Command of the Army, the A&N command, the only tri-services command of the Indian Army, said in a post on Twitter.

Earlier this month, India had issued a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM), indicative of a missile test, for 29 November and 1 December.

The no-fly zone notified for the test suggests that the variant of the missile tested today can hit targets at a range of 450 km or more.

India has conducted multiple tests of the BrahMos cruise missile from the A&N Islands this year. In February, India test-fired a BrahMos missile from a land-based launcher there. An extended-range version of the BrahMos cruise missile was tested from the Islands in March. In April, the A&N Command test-fired the anti-ship version of the BrahMos.
gakakkad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4667
Joined: 24 May 2011 08:16

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by gakakkad »

Vips wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote: On a different note, NOTAM issued for 5400 Km in the Bay of Bengal! Speculations rife that its either a K4 test or an Agni-V test
K-4 does not have range of 5400 Km. This may be either Agni VI with MIRV capability or K5.
Probably a5 ? Interestingly we are still keeping our ICBM capabilities pretty ambiguous. 5400 km is a very specific number . About time we came out in open about are ability to hit anywhere in the world ? In any case the Yankees know we can do that .
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

K5 from S4
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by RoyG »

K5 and K6 are most likely the same missile with the latter carrying the true payload weight. Hard to believe with debug and advances in warhead design it would be 2 ton.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 32226
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by chetak »

This is what gets the cheeni's goat.....

India is conducting the test of the 8000 km range Agni-V ballistic missile off the coast of Odisha from 15-16 December

The cheeni have bitterly accused India of deliberating misstating the range of her earlier agni missiles, and why not........

some secrets must remain within the family onlee



Image
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by RoyG »

5400km was intentional as it keeps the missile below icbm range.
dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1211
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by dinesha »

Amid heightened tensions along LAC in Tawang region, #India successfully test fires intercontinental range nuke capable ballistic missile #Agni5 from a defence facility off Odisha coast. The weapon system carrying a dummy warhead tested for full operational range

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... rC-xA&s=19
dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1211
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by dinesha »

India just launched something from the coast of Orissa .. What is this some kind of rocket or missile
#agni5 #missilelaunch #india


https://twitter.com/Rich_Satoshi/status ... -bAgw&s=19
dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1211
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by dinesha »

Ashokk
BRFite
Posts: 1116
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Ashokk »

Hemant Kumar Rout tweeted:
Amid heightened tensions along LAC in Tawang region, #India successfully test fires intercontinental range nuke capable ballistic missile #Agni5 from a defence facility off Odisha coast. The weapon system carrying a dummy warhead tested for full operational range @NewIndianXpress
Post Reply