Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

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Roop
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Roop »

ks_sachin wrote:... or should we also be proactive and start responding in kind?
Granted, this question was not for me, but if you don't mind, I am going to give my 2 paise worth of opinion anyway: we should start responding in kind. In fact, we should have started long ago.

Now, it is possible (and I am completely speculating here) that this has already happened here and there but the public is not aware of it (things like the occupation of the Kailash Heights). A worthy discussion, but I'll stop here, because this threatens to derail the Indian Missiles thread.
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

There is too much of a fan-boy mindset here.
Do the folks know the target destruction capability of a Prithvi and its successor missiles?
Please don't just reply because you can without facts.
Pratyush
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »



They are speaking about thousands of cruise missiles being required for Indian defence forces.

That is quite interesting.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Ashokk »

Indian Navy successfully tests sea-based endo-atmospheric interceptor missile off Odisha coast
NEW DELHI: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Indian Navy on Friday successfully conducted the maiden flight trial of sea-based endo-atmospheric interceptor missile off Odisha in the Bay of Bengal.
The purpose of the trial was to engage and neutralise a hostile ballistic missile threat thereby elevating India into the elite club of nations having naval ballistic missile defence (BMD) capability, the ministry of defence said in a statement.
Earlier, the DRDO had successfully demonstrated land-based BMD system with capability to neutralise ballistic missile threats, emerging from adversaries.
Defence minister Rajnath Singh congratulated DRDO, Indian Navy and all others involved in the successful demonstration of the trial.
Dr Samir V Kamat, DRDO chairman, complimented the teams involved in the design and development of the missile.
He said that nation has achieved self-reliance in developing highly-complex network-centric anti-ballistic missile systems.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Gyan »

2000 Akash missiles were ordered with first 2 Regiments of Army, which is a seriously large Number. This time around it seems only 400 missiles ordered. Was the first order for 4 Regiments disguised as 2?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »

IIRC, the initial Akash order was for 2500 missiles along with required launchers.

The orders were split between the IAF and the IA. The split was 1000 for one and 1500 for the other.

I don't remember more precisely than that.

Back then it was the single largest order for indigenous product by value.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by drnayar »

Ashokk wrote:Indian Navy successfully tests sea-based endo-atmospheric interceptor missile off Odisha coast
NEW DELHI: The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Indian Navy on Friday successfully conducted the maiden flight trial of sea-based endo-atmospheric interceptor missile off Odisha in the Bay of Bengal.

He said that nation has achieved self-reliance in developing highly-complex network-centric anti-ballistic missile systems.
Saying nothing but something, what missile was used ? .. was mfstar used for guidance what target was simulated.. aegis with sm3 ? has near space capability to track and shoot low orbit satellites
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

My interest is whether the missile used was AAD (Ashwin) or the the new AD-1.
Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

99.99% AD-1
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

Could be newly developed as it has to resist marine corrosion effects.
SSridhar
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

Karan M wrote:99.99% AD-1
If that is indeed the case, which I also expect to be true, then the progression is quite admirable because the first 'announced' successful flight was only about 4 months back.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Yes, quite remarkable. It shows other features like ship-borne tracking and fire-control radars, canisterization/VLS, stabilization at sea etc

I really hope inductions actually happen. Our BMD program seems to be in perpetual testing & iteration mode. Most tests are successful but nothing happens beyond that
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by drnayar »

Prem Kumar wrote:Yes, quite remarkable. It shows other features like ship-borne tracking and fire-control radars, canisterization/VLS, stabilization at sea etc

I really hope inductions actually happen. Our BMD program seems to be in perpetual testing & iteration mode. Most tests are successful but nothing happens beyond that
I think Indian military will be quiet on the reach of its operational capabilities for obvious reasons !
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by prashantsharma »

There are enough news articles on the BMD bases, radar as well as missiles.
No public announcements, but things are moving on ground operationally.
Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

Prem Kumar wrote:Yes, quite remarkable. It shows other features like ship-borne tracking and fire-control radars, canisterization/VLS, stabilization at sea etc

I really hope inductions actually happen. Our BMD program seems to be in perpetual testing & iteration mode. Most tests are successful but nothing happens beyond that
LSP induction has begun. And operational deployment of parts of the BMD network have occurred quite a while back. Further, local, enhancements are now underway which will allow us to scale the network.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Karan M »

SSridhar wrote:
Karan M wrote:99.99% AD-1
If that is indeed the case, which I also expect to be true, then the progression is quite admirable because the first 'announced' successful flight was only about 4 months back.
Yes, long in gestation, usual funding shortfalls etc but it's arriving. A plethora of missile systems are on the anvil.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

Thank you Karan, for the good news.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by sudhan »

SSridhar wrote:
Karan M wrote:99.99% AD-1
If that is indeed the case, which I also expect to be true, then the progression is quite admirable because the first 'announced' successful flight was only about 4 months back.
IN released a pic of the interceptor that was fired.. Looks like the older AAD, not the 2 staged AD-1

Image

Link to tweet https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 01354?s=20
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Yagnasri »

I do not expect them to issue a real picture of such a sensitive event.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by sudhan »

Quite possible multiple rounds were fired.. both AD-1 and AAD must have been let loose in this test..
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

sudhan wrote:IN released a pic of the interceptor that was fired.. Looks like the older AAD, not the 2 staged AD-1
Thanks Sudhan for the link.

From the photo, I am not sure if it is from a pontoon or a ship. The PIB release omits mentioning any ship name. Yes, it is the older AAD but we don't know whether the picture is the latest. Also, we can see fins at the top which was the modification introduced in the March 2017 test, compared to earlier AAD missiles. At that time, it was claimed to be the likely production version for Phase-I.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by sudhan »

SSridhar wrote:
sudhan wrote:IN released a pic of the interceptor that was fired.. Looks like the older AAD, not the 2 staged AD-1
Thanks Sudhan for the link.

From the photo, I am not sure if it is from a pontoon or a ship. The PIB release omits mentioning any ship name. Yes, it is the older AAD but we don't know whether the picture is the latest. Also, we can see fins at the top which was the modification introduced in the March 2017 test, compared to earlier AAD missiles. At that time, it was claimed to be the likely production version for Phase-I.
It is a ship. INS Anvesh. Our Floating Test range.

You can see the exposed missile silos aft of the ship.

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by drnayar »

so the floating test range can be part of BMD ?!... curious these types could well be developed into"arsenal ships"
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Prem Kumar »

Sudhan: by missile silo, do you mean the 2 vertical cuboidal shaped structures?

Are there 4 of them (2x2)?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »

Yes.

In this picture they are in a raised position.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by sudhan »

Prem Kumar wrote:Sudhan: by missile silo, do you mean the 2 vertical cuboidal shaped structures?

Are there 4 of them (2x2)?
Yep.
Here is a better pic along with the loading crane.
Not sure what the 'A' series doors open to :twisted: :mrgreen:

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

The launchers are numbered S1 thru S4.
BTW I recall reading that IN is building a few ABM ships. Let me look for the link.

Here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_18
The Project 18 NGD is a class of Anti-Ballistic Missile Cruisers designed for the Indian Navy. They are projected to be the replacement of the Rajput-class Guided Missile Destroyers. Recently, the Indian Navy has showcased the design for the destroyer in a promotional video, revealing its planned specifications. The ships have been designed by the Warship Design Bureau (WDB) and a total of 5-10 ships has been planned.[1][2]...

The Project 18 NGD will be the most heavily armed warships of the Indian Navy's history of warships and by all means a Cruiser by international standards. These vessels will not only field Land-attack Cruise Missiles, Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles, Surface-to-Air Missiles but will also field Anti-Ballistic Missiles on the line of US Navy's (Arleigh Burke-class destroyer) which fields (RIM-161 Standard Missile 3). These Destroyers will have 2 x Quad-canister launchers, 144 VLS with a mix of :

AD-1 Endo-Atmospheric BMD
AD-2 Exo-Atmospheric BMD
XR-SAM Very Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile
ER-SAM Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile
Barak-8 Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile
VL-SRSAM Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (Quadpack)
BrahMos-ER Supersonic Land-attack/Anti-Ship Missile
BrahMos-II/Vishnu Hypersonic Land-attack/Anti-Ship Missile
LR-LACM Subsonic Land-attack Missile
SMART Anti-Submarine Missile
Naval Guns present this ship will be :

1 x DRDO 127mm x 62 Cal Naval Gun
3 × OTO Melara 76mm Naval Gun
4 x AK-630M CIWS
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 Stabilized Remote Controlled Gun[3]
There you have your arsenal ship 5-10. Hope its 16.
Set of four for each taskforce.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »

Do we know that the new AD missile is incompatible with VLS of the existing ships?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

From my notes:

Phase 2 testing of the BMD system requires two ranges placed well apart along the missile trajectory. DRDO is developing two new missile ranges at Machilipatnam in Andhra Pradesh and Rutland Island in the Andamans. Target missiles would be launched from a floating test range (FTR), a 10,000-ton displacement ship under construction. A DRDO scientist told The Hindu that the FTR “will pave the way for conducting trials for different trajectories, varying altitudes and higher ranges. We can go up to 1,000-1,500 kilometers without any problem. Currently, we have to conduct simulation tests for longer ranges.”
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

ramana wrote: The Project 18 NGD is a class of Anti-Ballistic Missile Cruisers designed for the Indian Navy. They are projected to be the replacement of the Rajput-class Guided Missile Destroyers. Recently, the Indian Navy has showcased the design for the destroyer in a promotional video, revealing its planned specifications. The ships have been designed by the Warship Design Bureau (WDB) and a total of 5-10 ships has been planned.[1][2]...

The Project 18 NGD will be the most heavily armed warships of the Indian Navy's history of warships and by all means a Cruiser by international standards. These vessels will not only field Land-attack Cruise Missiles, Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles, Surface-to-Air Missiles but will also field Anti-Ballistic Missiles on the line of US Navy's (Arleigh Burke-class destroyer) which fields (RIM-161 Standard Missile 3). These Destroyers will have 2 x Quad-canister launchers, 144 VLS with a mix of :

AD-1 Endo-Atmospheric BMD
AD-2 Exo-Atmospheric BMD
XR-SAM Very Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile
ER-SAM Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile
Barak-8 Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missile
VL-SRSAM Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile (Quadpack)
BrahMos-ER Supersonic Land-attack/Anti-Ship Missile
BrahMos-II/Vishnu Hypersonic Land-attack/Anti-Ship Missile
LR-LACM Subsonic Land-attack Missile
SMART Anti-Submarine Missile
Naval Guns present this ship will be :

1 x DRDO 127mm x 62 Cal Naval Gun
3 × OTO Melara 76mm Naval Gun
4 x AK-630M CIWS
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 Stabilized Remote Controlled Gun[3]
.[/quote]

Some queries
Can't AD-1 also be used /modified / converted to a XR-SAM ?

Can's we have a single or at the most 2 types of universal launchers like the US Mk 41 or French Sylver 30 / 50 ?

I think L&T has displayed a universal launchers but i am unaware of the missiles to be launched from it
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

Kersi are those real questions?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by ramana »

AD-1 is endo atmospheric ABM.
XR-SAM.is short range SAM.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »

Ukraine conflict is causing a lot of analysis of what effective and what's not effective.

A lot of it is quite premature in the opinion of people like the chieftain.

Himars, is useful in terms of being able to conduct precision strikes against targets that are upto 70 km away.

But to use it in place of a modern 155 /52 SPH is quite surprising to me.

Especially, considering that I have held an opinion, that, if every shot is to be a precise shot. Then the tube is a limiting factor and represents weight that doesn't have to be carried. It can be replaced with loitering munitions.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Manish_P »

Pratyush wrote:..
Himars, is useful in terms of being able to conduct precision strikes against targets that are upto 70 km away.

But to use it in place of a modern 155 /52 SPH is quite surprising to me.
...
HIMARS systems can fire the GPS-guided MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) munitions to max range of 300 kms and is also being upgraded to be able to fire it's replacement, the upcoming GPS-guided Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) to max range of 500 km.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Pratyush »

I know that. The question is how many systems can Australia procure. That are going to make a difference to the outcome between a fight between USA and PRC.

Or hope to deter PRC alone.

If PRC is somehow are permitted by Indonesia to go through one of the straights and attack Australia.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

ramana wrote:Kersi are those real questions?
Meaning ?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Kersi »

ramana wrote:AD-1 is endo atmospheric ABM.
XR-SAM.is short range SAM.
Short range ?
I think XR-SAM is a (extra) long range SAM that's why i am asking this question. Maybe the two missiles may have a lot in common but different seekers
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by SSridhar »

Kersi wrote:
ramana wrote:AD-1 is endo atmospheric ABM.
XR-SAM.is short range SAM.
Short range ?
I think XR-SAM is a (extra) long range SAM that's why i am asking this question. Maybe the two missiles may have a lot in common but different seekers
XR-SAM has a range of 150 Kms and is deemed as a derivative of AAD-1. There are speculations that its range is even being increased.VLR-SAM has been renamed as XR-SAM.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

Post by Manish_P »

Pratyush wrote:I know that. The question is how many systems can Australia procure...
With AUKUS it will not be a huge constraint
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