Aero India - pics, clips and anecdotes

Himanshu
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Post by Himanshu »

BULL..... :eek: now that is AWESOME...
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Post by putnanja »

Arun_S
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Post by Arun_S »

Hold on for my >200Mb (out of 1GB) that is awaiting transfer and hosting.
shiv
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Post by shiv »

asharma wrote:Shiv
Video CD is great and so r the babes.
Thanks for all the effort.
I'm glad you liked it. My making it and your getting it are both helping BR. Thank YOU
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Post by JaiS »

Indo - Russian Aviation Limited ( IRAL ) Booth :

Image

Image

Image
Shalav
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Post by Shalav »

Anyone have an idea why the ADENs were blanked off on the jaguar? Is this a new trend or for the airshow onlee?
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Post by Vick »

I dont think the DARIN IIs have the ADENs. I think they are meant to be nearly exclusively PGM platforms.
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Post by Harry »

So what's the verdict? Noise filter or no noise filter?

Here's another example,

A pic slightly fked with : http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attach ... 0984&stc=1
versus the original : http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/sb040_to.jpg

Which is better?
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Post by Cybaru »

Harry wrote:So what's the verdict? Noise filter or no noise filter?

Here's another example,

A pic slightly fked with : http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attach ... 0984&stc=1
versus the original : http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/sb040_to.jpg

Which is better?

First one, maybe becoz its larger ?
shiv
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Post by shiv »

Harry wrote:So what's the verdict? Noise filter or no noise filter?

Here's another example,

A pic slightly fked with : http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attach ... 0984&stc=1
versus the original : http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/sb040_to.jpg

Which is better?
There is very little to choose between the two - though the doctored picture appears a little sharper wnd with brighter colors.
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Post by ManuJ »

shiv wrote:Like I said - very few Jaguar flying pics about

The ones I found were (not all flying)

Your vote??
By far, the best one is by Simon Watson. Amazing photograph. But then, he is a professional.
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Post by shiv »

The MiG 29 put up a scintillating display. While it was grat to watch in motion - with its jet blast thundering within your lungs, the proble as I saw it for still photographers was high speed and distance (small target).

So I have tended to judge pictures on 3 criteria:
1)Freezing of movement
2)close up view of details
3)The ability to show some action in the picture

Arun has some great pics - but the originals are much larger than the ones on here - and he should really be looking at a CD based photo essay - with whih I am willing to help

Your vote? For Vishak's pixtures you may have to cut and paste - or go to page 1 of this thread and click on the link to galleris that I have posted there. I might re post it on this page.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/ArunS/index3.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/ArunS/index4.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/im ... 29Aero.jpg
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/im ... 29Taxi.jpg
http://gallery140150.fotopic.net/c431765.html
http://rustom.fotopic.net/p12200645.html
http://rustom.fotopic.net/p12200675.html
http://rustom.fotopic.net/p12200676.html
http://rustom.fotopic.net/p12200677.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/upload/MiG-29-First Supersonics pilots.JPG
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/upload/MiG-29M2 burning up the skies.JPG
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Post by Harry »

After yesterday :x :x , here are 6 new chapters to cheer you up,

http://www.acig.org/exclusives/aero/Aero_India.htm
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Post by Cybaru »

Harry wrote:After yesterday :x :x , here are 6 new chapters to cheer you up,

http://www.acig.org/exclusives/aero/Aero_India.htm
COOL!!!

Nice work man.

Got a question for you.

More info on this ??

"Studies are also on, concerning a stretched LCA variant!" ??
Harry
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Post by Harry »

A 20 ton AUW class, single or twin engined forerunner to the MCA. Lower sigs, higher integration, lower life cycle costs blah blah. It's only a concept born out of excitement from seeing the LCA progress.
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Post by Priyank »

What is that hillock near Yelahanka which looks like it is snow covered (but is obviously not considering its seemingly low height and its location) ?
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Post by Arun_S »

Harry wrote:After yesterday :x :x , here are 6 new chapters to cheer you up,

http://www.acig.org/exclusives/aero/Aero_India.htm
One word: Superb.
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Post by Harry »

George J

Post by George J »

Dilip Chabbaria did NOT design the Aston Martin Vantage, he merely built the display PROTOTYPE (you think Henri Fisker is scratching his 8@lls and letting short dark rice eating Indian design for him?). Jeez you Indians take a mile outta ever inch. Next you will be saying that he designed the Dhruv too? WHats next?....One of his gawd aweful body kits on Dhruv......So badly fabricated that it will mess up the CG on the chopper just like it messes up the balancing and alignment of his one of custom cars???? And that metallic gold paint (known in India as the Mahraja Gold to all the Honda City drivers) yeech....typical DC job.

Sorry I had to rant. :twisted:
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Post by Kartik »

George J wrote:Dilip Chabbaria did NOT design the Aston Martin Vantage, he merely built the display PROTOTYPE (you think Henri Fisker is scratching his 8@lls and letting short dark rice eating Indian design for him?). Jeez you Indians take a mile outta ever inch. Next you will be saying that he designed the Dhruv too? WHats next?....One of his gawd aweful body kits on Dhruv......So badly fabricated that it will mess up the CG on the chopper just like it messes up the balancing and alignment of his one of custom cars???? And that metallic gold paint (known in India as the Mahraja Gold to all the Honda City drivers) yeech....typical DC job.

Sorry I had to rant. :twisted:
:D :D . Finally Georgeji, I found someone who feels the same as I do about DC ! :D
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Post by Arun_S »

Jagan/Shiv: Pls check your email for photo package.
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Post by Cybaru »

A very nice air show gallery ..

http://www.pbase.com/stevie_j/avalon2005

worth spending time going through it..
rad
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aero 2005 video

Post by rad »

I just recently received my VCD copy of the aero 2005 show from Anvesham . I was shocked by the quality of the video . The 2003 Video was much better in all aspects. I hope my observations as are taken in the right spirit and please dont take offence to what i have suggested .

1) wrong exposure, wrong colors,, totaly underexposed in various places
2) seems no white balance has been done
3) jerky videos that hurt the eyes
4) bad recording format
5) very bad jerky recording of flight display
6) very fast panning of the camera in ful zoom

may i suggest the foll--

It seems that the basic recording format is not in the dv format
due to the scan lines being visible on the tv. A Mini dv or a 3 CCD camera should be used with an anti shake function , which is nearly standard in all cameras. A tripod or atleast a monopod should be used to avoid jerky
movements both in the vetivcal and horizontal axis.
White balance should be done to get t he correct color temperature every time different situations are encountered like flying display and static indoor display where the color temperature of the light is totaly different.
Fast panning while in full zoom should be avoided as one cannot make out what the shooter is trying to show. the video should dwell on any subject atleast for 5 secs
Shooting flying displays is more difficult as white balancing and a tripod with a good panning handle is a must .As the camera is shooting into the sky the camera will tend to underexpose the aircraft and meter for the sky rather than the air craft , a +.5 to 1 stop overexposure will solve the problem . The shooter should anticipate t he movement of the aircraft smoothly .

I apologise if i have hurt some feelings but i did expect a better video .

please comment
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Post by Jagan »

Arun_S wrote:Jagan/Shiv: Pls check your email for photo package.
Arun.. No luck.. either at my work id or my gmail id... were they large sized files?
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Post by Arun_S »

Yes 13 Mb zip file sent to work id. Will split into 2 and send again.
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Re: aero 2005 video

Post by shiv »

rad wrote:
1) wrong exposure, wrong colors,, totaly underexposed in various places
2) seems no white balance has been done
3) jerky videos that hurt the eyes
4) bad recording format
5) very bad jerky recording of flight display
6) very fast panning of the camera in ful zoom

please comment
Hey that's OK. You make a video - you have to be ready to be kicked or kissed.

Actually - the fast panning is worst at the very beginning of the video - which gives a bad impression. But I just had to put those sequences in the beginning because the background annoncement was relevant to the following flight display. At other times fast panning at zoom was done to try and catch faces of booth babes (eg Uzbekistan stall) - not always successfully. The chicks knew they were being filmed by a lecherous looking old baldy and used to get nervous.

Jerky videos - no excuse, no cure either. It's not that bad actually but its a handheld in the hands of an amateur standing among the hoi polloi.

Colors and underexposure: true for the VCD. My real problem was that I had a deadline to ready a "raw" VCD within 7 days of the show. That left very little time to play with the settings.

The original video was recorded into DV format, but converted to Mpeg 1 for VCD. Sometime during this the exposure has become lower for no reason apparent to me. In fact the name "Midhani" in the Midhani stall fails to show up unless you increase the brightness of your display.

Unless I get a new camera with movement compensation there is no cure for jerkiness. As regards the exposure compensation- I get the impression that the display brightmness you use is possibly far lower than normal. The brighter your display the brighter the scenes appear. Try adjusting your brightness and watch out for booth babes when you see fast panning.

And sorry if you didn't like it. I'll try and do better next time - if there is a next time.
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Post by Jagan »

Ideally a 3CCD Camera with Tripod etc would be nice, but I think we have to take the cost of buying or hiring that equipment in India into account.

The Akash Yoddha film was shot on a 3CCD Camera and also on a Mini DV (PCR7e type ) , which i believe is a single CCD. Both were VERY expensive at that point of time (approx 1-1.5 Lakhs each). The solution was to hire the equipment from a professional studio..but that again would be an expensive proposition, costing about 10K per day.

I dont know how the results would be today on a MiniDV that sony currently retails in the 30-35 K range.

Note: All figures in Rupees.
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Post by Roop »

Pardon me, but all this criticism of the VCD is unjustified whining, IMO. The sale price of this product is so low as to be almost free. We should all be grateful (and I certainly am) to Shiv and others for taking the trouble to produce the damned thing in the first place and put it up for sale.

You think you can do better? Fine, you produce the videos for the next airshow, sell them at a competitive price, and put up with the complaints from buyers who feel they could have done better.

You want a professional product, filmed/edited/mastered to professional standards? Okay, it can be done. Then pay professional prices for the end product.

Geez, people, WTF??? A little gratitude?
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Yes There are no cannons on Drin II

Post by Karnik »

Vick wrote:I dont think the DARIN IIs have the ADENs. I think they are meant to be nearly exclusively PGM platforms.
Thats right no cannons...acutally not having cannons and associated ammo would increase the external weapon carrying capability...

The jag at Mumbai Static display also did not carry cannons...but not sure if it was a Darin II version...
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Post by Shalav »

Vick wrote:I dont think the DARIN IIs have the ADENs. I think they are meant to be nearly exclusively PGM platforms.
Cool - Means we can visually identify the upgraded Jags in the future - at-least for me.
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Post by shiv »

Jagan wrote:Ideally a 3CCD Camera with Tripod etc would be nice, but I think we have to take the cost of buying or hiring that equipment in India into account.
Jagan - professional cameramen have made sports video-ing an art, but videoing an airshow is a different ballgame.

At really high levels of zoom, even a tripod only minimizes vertical shake and horizontal jerkiness often persists even in "professionally shot" videos. this is a basic fault in the human hand-eye coordination algorithm that ensures a detectable time lag between spotting and tracking a plane that is maneuvering, rather than moving steadily like a ball. Besides few tripods easily allow a 270 degree view in the horizontal AND vertical axes - which is what you need in an airshow.

Once you hold a camera to your face (which is steadier than using an LCD viewer) you can pan reasonably steadily until the moment comes for you to move your feet just a bit so you can turn your body because your neck has reached its physical limit of turning. The moment a human moves his feet the camera jerks violently and visibly.

The ideal method would be to have a radar/laser aimed camera rather like a Litening pod or a tank's gyro gunsight stabilization system.

Cameras are getting better all the time - even the price is less of a problem. The limit is how many new cameras you are going to buy per 5 years. I have now bought and "used up" 3 video cameras in 15 years and it looks like I am due for a 4th because technology moves so fast.

But frankly Jagan - you can take a really lousy video (provided it is long enough) and play with effects for a few days or weeks and come out with a piece that most people say is "great" because you can do so much using software. But that needs a lot of time. If you look at the comments made by rad - most of them are correctable by editing, putting in different clips and by fiddling with software. Fast pans can be edited out - but in this case that would edit out a lot of chicks :)
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Post by Arun_S »

All I would say is that apart from lay feedback, I would take a feedback more seriously if the person has ever done photo/video shooting of airshow. I thought it was easy, until a month ago when I got a real taste of what it takes to use high zoom to take good shots of jets doing aerobatics.

I empethise with Shiv and thank him for shooting & making the VCD, as best an avid enthusiast could do. In case Rad thinks he made a mistake buying the VCD I would volenteer (& be happy) to reimburse the cost. How's that for a no-risk purchase! Or else enjoy at the good part of the show.
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Post by shiv »

Arun_S wrote:I got a real taste of what it takes to use high zoom to take good shots of jets doing aerobatics.
Arun - both your emails are with me - downloading them right now as I type this.
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Post by Jay »

Mohan Raju wrote:Pardon me, but all this criticism of the VCD is unjustified whining, IMO. The sale price of this product is so low as to be almost free. We should all be grateful (and I certainly am) to Shiv and others for taking the trouble to produce the damned thing in the first place and put it up for sale.

You think you can do better? Fine, you produce the videos for the next airshow, sell them at a competitive price, and put up with the complaints from buyers who feel they could have done better.

You want a professional product, filmed/edited/mastered to professional standards? Okay, it can be done. Then pay professional prices for the end product.

Geez, people, WTF??? A little gratitude?

Raju Garu, If u r paying low price that does'nt mean u must get the inferior stuff. I have'nt seen the video myself but i fully appreciate the work done by our Admins. He was just suggesting somethings which were wrong and something he observed, theres nothing wrong in delving into some critism. By all means to b honest u r post looks more of a whine. He has every reason to complain cause irrespective of the price(Cheap OR Expensive) he purchased it.
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aero 2005 vcd

Post by rad »

Thanks shiv for first of all takng the effort to bring the VCD . It was not clear who took it initaly.
Arun Thanks for the reimbursement offer , i decline . I have high regard for your work on the graphics on the space vehicles.

Mohan Raju please take constructive criticism thats what is going to make the BR web site .Please also read what Jay has to say .

I will be glad to do the filming for the 2007 aero show in a 3ccd camera free of cost .. I would consider it an honour. I have Filmed the Farnbourough airshow a couple of times for myself .
Iwill be teaching underwater photography in Bangalore! in a graphic school
called " Chroma". I will be also exhibiting my work in a gallery and i will let you know if interested .I have published articles in "Better photography " in 1999 june and october issues .I specialise in underwater photography and member of the royal photographic association.
This is for your kind information
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Post by VikramS »

Mohan Raju wrote:Pardon me, but all this criticism of the VCD is unjustified whining, IMO. The sale price of this product is so low as to be almost free. We should all be grateful (and I certainly am) to Shiv and others for taking the trouble to produce the damned thing in the first place and put it up for sale.

You think you can do better? Fine, you produce the videos for the next airshow, sell them at a competitive price, and put up with the complaints from buyers who feel they could have done better.

You want a professional product, filmed/edited/mastered to professional standards? Okay, it can be done. Then pay professional prices for the end product.

Geez, people, WTF??? A little gratitude?
rad made very specific comments with suggestions on how to improve things. He also compared it with earlier VCDs of similar type.
Constructive critism should be taken in a positive way.
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Re: aero 2005 vcd

Post by shiv »

rad wrote:
I will be glad to do the filming for the 2007 aero show in a 3ccd camera free of cost .. I would consider it an honour.
Thanks for the offer - you can't retract this now.

Actually we need more people doing videos. One person is typically not enough.

It is physically demanding work standing in the February heat of Bangalore and sometimes some aircraft do not fly on that occasion and may do so later.

The other thing is different vantage points get different views. Doing the halls after that is equally physically demanding because of the number of kilometers of walking involved within the halls - but as an underwater photographer - I expect you must be physically fit.

And the other thing is if you are really interested in something - the video work takes up so much time that you can't go around getting all the info you wanted. But that was compensated this time by having a lot of guys on the ground.
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Post by rad »

Shiv
I will honour what i have said and again it would be a pleasure to meet other BR members and take part in the filming . As you rightly said it is a big task to record everything that has been displayed in 2 days and work has to be distributed .Believe me in 2 years time 3CCD cameras are going to be the norm at the rate technology is growing .
Looking forward t o that day .
Cheers
Rad
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Post by Arun_S »

Here are my 92 photos of Static Aircraft display. It has some unusual photos for the eyes of the discerning (I took to heart feedback from last Aero India 2003).

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/ArunS/2index.htm


Some of the items are not documented. Pls help fill in and also any feedback/brickbats are welcome.

Thanks Jagan for indexing them.
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