Defence Expo 2004

Rudra
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 27 Feb 2004 22:42

believe its a muzzle reference system. all NATO
heavies do have it. Tank-Ex will get it when it
starts shooting.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ariete/

The gun is fitted with a thermal sleeve, a fume extraction system and a muzzle reference system.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ariete/ariete1.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger2/challenger22.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leclerc/leclerc13.html

Leo2 may have it at base of gun
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/leopard/leopard4.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/abrams8.html

The fire control computer automatically calculates the fire control solution based on: lead angle measurement; bend of the gun measured by the muzzle reference system; velocity measurement from a wind sensor on the roof of the turret; data from a pendulum static cant sensor located at the centre of the turret roof. The operator manually inputs data on ammunition type, temperature, and barometric pressure.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm



The muzzle reference system allows a quick check for the gunner of the distortion of the gun barrel in relation to the sight optics.


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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Ashutosh » 28 Feb 2004 00:34

So why do we see it only now? Even the one undergoing trials doesn't have it: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images2/0463.jpg

The 2004 Republic day version didn't have it either - all of a sudden it shows up in DEFEXPO ...

BTW, in this picture - can anyone confirm if those are the blow-off panels? http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/arjun2.jpg

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Ashutosh » 28 Feb 2004 01:15

Some information on muzzle reference systems: http://www.prinsci.com/amrs.htm

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 28 Feb 2004 01:46

I thought the MRS was common knowledge? De jure on the Arjun and by extension on the Tank-ex.

The Tankex is presently under development, expect lots of goodies here and there.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 28 Feb 2004 02:27

a tank can work without a MRF. but MRF increases accuracy as a tank barrel warps and bends minutely due to wear and tear from firing, temperature....all modern tanks have it.

I have posted the blow-off panel question to the
tank-net gurus.here is a photo of scale model of
M1A1 turret clearly showing the 2 panels.

http://www.ipmsgreatplains.com/turret%20m1%20right.jpg

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby srai » 28 Feb 2004 03:33

Originally posted by Ashutosh:
...
BTW, in this picture - can anyone confirm if those are the blow-off panels? http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/arjun2.jpg
Arjun MBT

<u>Compare with these pictures:</u>
Leopard 2 MBT
M1A2 MBT
Leclerc MBT
Challenger 2 MBT
Ariete MBT

Good site of interiors for those who don't know:
http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/archive.html

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 28 Feb 2004 04:15

Chally per latest doesnt have blow out panels..
Keeps only penetrators w/o exlosive in bustle, so why panels..
Ariete per various reports is claimed to be an awful dawg..too finicky for italians to maintain properly and hence hangar queen..doesnt appear to show blow off panels..
Leclerc and Leo both are less protected than Abrams..keep hull ammo w/o compartmentalization. Abrams ...even hull ammo has blast off panels.

Arjun *only* thing that can tell for 100% is actual cite or user opinion or actual converstaion with designers. Many are categorical about incorporation of crew prot measures(more later)..but we need explicit cites.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Roop » 28 Feb 2004 04:40

Originally posted by Nitin:

I thought the MRS was common knowledge?
N:

If you have learned nothing else from all your years on BR, you should have learned this much at least: <u>there is no such thing as "common knowledge".</u> I'm not being facetious here, I'm serious. There are many things I learn from your (and others') posts that you may consider "common knowledge" but are welcome news to me. Likewise, there are many things I consider "obvious" that get posted on the forum and someone, somewhere learns something new.

Moral of the story: if in doubt, post it. If it really is "obvious", "common knowledge" etc., it will soon die out. However, chances are it will be an education to someone -- and that's what counts.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby shiv » 28 Feb 2004 06:11

Yup.

No such thing as common knowledge - just a few people with uncommon knowledge.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 29 Feb 2004 02:12

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_418.shtml

Happy discussion.

PS How many of you actually clicked on the title logo on the intro page?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Guest » 29 Feb 2004 02:25

Harry,
Did you take any pics of infantry equipment such as rifles, helmets, vests etc?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 02 Mar 2004 00:58

Did any one take pics of the Samyukta model or get a catalogue?
R

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby amarnath » 02 Mar 2004 12:38

Hello is it me who just didnt notice ?

Nishant Mk.1W (Wheeled) Version under development ? Also says series production to start soon ? Third time i am taking up this issue with Nitin :)

Other variants of the UAV in advanced stages of development include a version known as the Nishant Mk.1W(Wheeled) with a fixed tricycle undercarriage capable of autonomous take off and landing from short unprepared airstrips. This will also allow the parachute and landing bag recovery systems to be removed in order to make space for additional payloads. Further developments will include increased endurance and range and a more powerful engine.

Eventually, all versions are to get IRLS, COMINT and ELINT payloads as well as a laser designator
Thanks to Harry

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby s_nick » 06 Mar 2004 22:23


JCage
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 12 Mar 2004 06:42

To build a full fledged AESA, it is imperative to get the price of the MMIC/TxRX units to reasonable levels..hence DRDO is scouting for tieups.
Incidentally, DRDO is no longer being treated as a pariah when it comes to coop, so there is work to be done and luck at hand, thanks to the decade long work India has done on radars.
To give one an idea of how stupid tech denial can be- the Nag guidance system was deemed sensitive per MTCR..and hence we went it alone. Not that fools like Sawney could understand.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 23 Mar 2004 19:51

Part 5

Part 6 (includes a surprise!)

Part 7

Surya
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Surya » 23 Mar 2004 20:17

AAAAGHH

Is there a clearer pix of the 155mm upgraded gun?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby advitya » 23 Mar 2004 20:22

Originally posted by Surya:
AAAAGHH

Is there a clearer pix of the 155mm upgraded gun?
http://groups.msn.com/BharatRakshakDefexpo/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=53

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Priyank » 24 Mar 2004 05:35

http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/guns.jpg

Is that a Negev LMG at the bottom of the OFB display?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Guest » 24 Mar 2004 06:05

Priyank,
Indeed it is.
No doubt at all.
Wonder how it came to the OFB stand? Are they manufacturing it under license?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby ASPuar » 24 Mar 2004 06:06

so it would seem...

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 24 Mar 2004 15:47

Yes they are.

Harry - nice work. One omission though.

The 155mm displayed by the OFB is not the Israeli SOltam supplied kit but the OFB's own Metamorphosis upgrade, of its own design. Both programs have been cleared but the OFB one will provide the bulk .

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 24 Mar 2004 15:50

Given that the OFB makes a pump shotgun- any chance of a derivative entering SF hands?

Surya, Rupak any thoughts?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 25 Mar 2004 02:42


srai
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby srai » 25 Mar 2004 03:58

Pretty similar resemblance between the two:

Singapore Technologies Kinetics SAR-21 series of 5.56 mm calibre Assault rifles
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/singaporesguns_s.jpg

IMI's 'Tavor' series of 5.56 mm Assualt Rifles
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/imiguns_s.jpg

davidn
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 25 Mar 2004 04:00

very nice harry!

just one Q, do you know what that little gadget behind the MARS sights of the Tavor with the M203 on it is?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Priyank » 25 Mar 2004 08:36

Originally posted by Harry:
Part 8
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/spike1.jpg

There should be a minor correction in the caption of this photograph. The soldier in it is not an officer. Note the lack of any shoulder insignia

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 25 Mar 2004 08:50

and are we really using Galil rifles? snipers?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 25 Mar 2004 19:33

Originally posted by srai:
Pretty similar resemblance between the two:

Singapore Technologies Kinetics SAR-21 series of 5.56 mm calibre Assault rifles
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/singaporesguns_s.jpg

IMI's 'Tavor' series of 5.56 mm Assualt Rifles
http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/imiguns_s.jpg
As already mentioned, both are 'Bullpup' designs.

just one Q, do you know what that little gadget behind the MARS sights of the Tavor with the M203 on it is?
Holder for Mini N/SEAS

and are we really using Galil rifles? snipers?
Purchased with Tavor-21s.

And the gentleman seen with the Spike really is an officer.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rakesh » 28 Mar 2004 06:54

Harry
Member
Member # 2004

posted 27 March 2004 03:07 PM

The old thread has already exceeded 300 posts and is probably just a few posts short of being binned so I'm starting a new one.
Part 9 - Newly uploaded
Navigate to other parts here

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rakesh » 28 Mar 2004 06:54

Actually Harry, I am gonna let this thread continue till it reaches its end, just like the Aero India 2003 thread. After that it will be archived in the Military Issues Archive.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Nandai » 31 Mar 2004 02:26

An exhibition summary from Defense Update, some quite nice photos and info there.

http://www.defense-update.com/events/2004/summary/defexpo041.htm

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 31 Mar 2004 02:56


Cybaru
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Cybaru » 31 Mar 2004 03:35

Coool update harry..

What is the difference between those different RDM radars ? RDM4 / RDM7 ??

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vick » 31 Mar 2004 22:57

Something very familiar about the config of the Aster missiles... reminds me of another missile that also starts with "A" and is also five letters long. ;)

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 01 Apr 2004 02:14

Originally posted by cy_baru:
Coool update harry..

What is the difference between those different RDM radars ? RDM4 / RDM7 ??
To be honest, I don't really know. My guess is improved signal processing for better air-to-ground modes. Since the RDM, the only radar with 'proper' Air-to-Air as well as Air-to-Ground capability was the RDY-2.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 01 Apr 2004 06:28

The RDY itself is quite capable as well.

The fact that they didnt change the designation much- from RDM to RDY etc implies that they kept the old antenna, and did what the norm is nowadays- changed the old computing and signal processing equipment to more modern digital ones. Changing anything else would need a more significant rework, so I dont think they would have done that.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 04 Apr 2004 03:53


Harry
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Harry » 10 Apr 2004 04:05



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