Defence Expo 2004

JCage
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 12 Feb 2004 04:20

Originally posted by rupak:
Originally posted by nitin:
[b]
Arjun news- any? :D

Cheers,
Nitin
N,
First production batch is in building. Six complete production tanks so far. Due for delivery begining March. BEML in Bangalore is tooling up for Chassis production. Technical info has been transferred, etc. No faujis present, so I couldn't get an Army perspective yet. All tanks to be delivered by end 2005.[/b]
Thanks Rupak! The BEML chassis's are for the Bhim I presume.
Any luck with the crew protection questions?

Cheers,
Nitin

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 12 Feb 2004 05:00

IDC chap had a good breakfast, was happy and hence we have this rather ok report.

http://www.indiadefence.com/Defexpo04.htm

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby shiv » 12 Feb 2004 06:16

Originally posted by shishir:
Image

Image
Nice pictures.

What are those misshapen black things hanging on a grill to the left of the "nice pictures"?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Cybaru » 12 Feb 2004 06:25

Originally posted by nitin:
IDC chap had a good breakfast, was happy and hence we have this rather ok report.

http://www.indiadefence.com/Defexpo04.htm
After reading about defexpo & the general trend in the armed forces, I am convinced that almost all big projects that DRDO is playing with will come to fruition. Dosen;t matter what sawhney or his uncle says. Most Indian companies now see mucho mucho deniro and are lining up to pick up prodcution of stuff that drdo is working on. Even help it giving finishing touches if you can trust em ....

Pretty soon this will be like the software arena, exporting finished products versus importing stuff.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Joeqp » 12 Feb 2004 06:44

<I>Are you sure this was during the War or was it after it? I have seen several photographs from the Chachro and Umarkot raids and I could see only the Mahindra Jeeps and Jongas.</I>

Jagan, I'm going from memory; it could have been after the war. It was 32 years ago, and I may have seen a parade or a re-enactment or something. I could go and ask the next time I meet him :D

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 12 Feb 2004 06:53

Originally posted by cy_baru:
Originally posted by nitin:
[b]IDC chap had a good breakfast, was happy and hence we have this rather ok report.

http://www.indiadefence.com/Defexpo04.htm
After reading about defexpo & the general tred in the armed forces, I am convinced that almost all big projects that DRDO is playing with will come to fruition. Dosen;t matter what sawhney or his uncle says. Most Indian companies now see mucho mucho deniro and are lining up to pick up prodcution of stuff that drdo is working on. Even help it giving finishing touches if you can trust em ....

Pretty soon this will be like the software arena, exporting finished products versus importing stuff.[/b]
Exactly. DRDO/BEL/ECIL/CSIR can retain control over the overall design and act as project leaders and core technology developers- eg radar etc. Everything else, from coding to hardware can be accomplished by the pvt sector.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 12 Feb 2004 07:36

Rupak,

Apart from the Arjun crew protection, one more question..are the Tata and L&T guys both making the Pinaka launchers and have both been selected or is it a competition?

Who made the AC system and who made the DC?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 12 Feb 2004 07:56

the 'fit n finish' of pvt stuff like the namica,
trishul , brahmos and pinaka looks way better than
ofb materials. auto industry is one of keys to progress.
now GOI ought to seriously encourage pvt shipbuilding yards and privatize all of them.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vick » 12 Feb 2004 07:59

Are there any more pics coming?

Agree, private is the way to go. Cochin SY or other fledgling SYs should look for JVs with Hyundai or Mitsubishi HM.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Jagan » 12 Feb 2004 08:56

Originally posted by Manavendra:
[i]
Jagan, I'm going from memory; it could have been after the war. It was 32 years ago, and I may have seen a parade or a re-enactment or something. I could go and ask the next time I meet him :D
Manavendra

Thanks. While I do not have the other 'action' pictures , here is a picture scanned by shiv that will help. RD Parade Image

regards

Jagan

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Sanjay » 12 Feb 2004 11:39

Rupak,
Any news of OFB production of Negev or on what Rafael missiles BDL will be producing ?

Why was the Excalibur developed ? It's an attractive enough rifle but can't see any big advance over the basic INSAS - and it's slightly less attractive than the black/grey INSAS !

Any more small arms pics ?

Was that really a pic of an Agni-2 rail coach ?

And incidentally, as an aside, rumour is that Agni-1 production line not set-up yet and Agni-2 production not stablized not even sure if BDL has estb. a production line.

Great photos, great show.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby SureshP » 12 Feb 2004 19:42

Originally posted by Vick:
Are there any more pics coming?

Agree, private is the way to go. Cochin SY or other fledgling SYs should look for JVs with Hyundai or Mitsubishi HM.
It really cannot come soon enough. My worry is that the defence minister still carries "ol Time" socialist mantra to heart. Then there is of course the tremendous desire by any minister never to relinquish thier power over assets.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Ashutosh » 12 Feb 2004 21:23

Check out this picture - and then read the caption on it! http://www.indiadefence.com/Exp%20Tank.JPG

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 12 Feb 2004 22:09

I thought Karna had the arjun gun. t72 has the 2A46Mx 125mm gun! the sloping turret is very nice lookin

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 12 Feb 2004 23:00

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
I thought Karna had the arjun gun. t72 has the 2A46Mx 125mm gun! the sloping turret is very nice lookin
It's Arjun gun and systems on T-72 chassis.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby appu » 12 Feb 2004 23:09

Those Tank-Ex and Karna mods have 3 man or 4 man crews?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 12 Feb 2004 23:21

good question! Karna is supposed to have 22 rounds
in the bustle. as the turret interior is same as
arjun, the seating arrangement should also be same
. gunner in front on the left?, commander on the right and the loader behind the gunner next to the
bustle and breech.

question : is the karna turret physically smaller
than arjun turret and the turret ring itself
smaller ?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Abhisham » 13 Feb 2004 06:01

Karan has a 4 man crew.
Still slated for trials for the army. Seems we won't be hearing much about karan for next few years to come. :roll:

Abhisham

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby ASPuar » 13 Feb 2004 06:02

The turret looks the same to me...?? I didnt notice a slope on the karna turret..

Whats the deal with the karna? Will it be supplied with the new 1000 bp diesel thats running the T-90s? Will they install an indigenous engine (assuming that the karna project gets off the ground)? Will they maybe try out the GTD-1250? Hehheh

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 13 Feb 2004 06:25

1000hp T90M engine is it. no real need for the
1250hp .... would guzzle more gas in normal cruise mode. the extra accel or purchase in mud may not be worth it.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 13 Feb 2004 09:50

Originally posted by Abhisham:
Karan has a 4 man crew.
Still slated for trials for the army. Seems we won't be hearing much about karan for next few years to come. :roll:

Abhisham
Abhi,
Way things are going, I wouldnt bet on that!

Word on the street post defexpo is that IA may buy some 150-300 of these provided trials are successful. And given what we are doing with the Arjun, the way for the Ex has been considerably simplified.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 13 Feb 2004 09:53

Originally posted by ASPuar:
The turret looks the same to me...?? I didnt notice a slope on the karna turret..

Whats the deal with the karna? Will it be supplied with the new 1000 bp diesel thats running the T-90s? Will they install an indigenous engine (assuming that the karna project gets off the ground)? Will they maybe try out the GTD-1250? Hehheh
The T90S engine apparently flunked the shoehorn into T72M1 test. So theres one more option from a bunch of happy sods in Europe.

The CIAjeya and Tank-ex will apparently per logic share the same tranny and engine.

The GTD 1250...the Ukrainian engine right? Wont happen ; the Uk's are trying to get in...we are showing them the middle finger because of their lovefest with the pubes.

Rudra sirji, the round distribution in turret...what did you base it on?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2004 09:58

Originally posted by Sanjay:


Why was the Excalibur developed ? It's an attractive enough rifle but can't see any big advance over the basic INSAS - and it's slightly less attractive than the black/grey INSAS !
.
Did I or did I not read on this forum that the Excalibur was a low-velocity INSAS for the cops?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 13 Feb 2004 10:06

Originally posted by shiv:
Originally posted by Sanjay:
[b]

Why was the Excalibur developed ? It's an attractive enough rifle but can't see any big advance over the basic INSAS - and it's slightly less attractive than the black/grey INSAS !
.
Did I or did I not read on this forum that the Excalibur was a low-velocity INSAS for the cops?[/b]
I think the cop/paramil one is the one with the handgrip up ahead, in the msn pics posted by rupak.

Sanjay,

IMHO, that OFB keeps plugging away at Insas variants.....is a good development. One might strike gold with exports and besides a big learnin curve. Something which OFB used to ignore earlier (build 1960 model "x" in 2000) but things are beginning to change..

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 14 Feb 2004 10:19

Some responses:

1. Excalibur is about 400 gms lighter than the INSAS and is shorter overall.

2. The Tank Ex uses a turbo charged T-72 engine which gives 1000 hp

3. The Tank Ex is going to enter Army trials only at the end of the year.

4. The turret is indentical to the Arjun, but is slightly raised to allow for full 360 degree travese.

5.The tracks are being rubebrized.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Sanjay » 14 Feb 2004 13:42

Rupak,
Thanks for all of this.
It's great stuff.
So is the Excalibur in production for IA ?
Is Negev in OFB production for IA ?

If the quality control can be maintained and the Tavor sighting system integrated with INSAS, the IA will have a weapon that will serve them well. Maybe improvements to the ammunition can be made over time.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 14 Feb 2004 18:39

well gah the Karna carries 32 rounds single-piece
I goofed up on the 22 rounds.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE4-5/nitin.html

----
Need to find space for another 6-8 rounds to make
up the usual 40 seen in most MBTs.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 14 Feb 2004 18:52

here is what I was trying to say. Leo2 has the
driver on the right rather than in middle. on
the left is the main ammo magazine. the turret
bustle actually holds a smaller number of rounds.

*****
27 rounds of 120 mm ammunition are stored in a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, to the left of the driver's station - additional 15 (making a total of 42) are stored in the left side of the turret bustle, and separated from the fighting compartment by an electrically operated door. Should the ammunition in the bustle be hit, blow-off panels in the turret roof would direct any explosion upwards.
*****

it can be argued the 27 round main mag is less
vulnerable as it sits lower and protected by much
thicker frontal hull armour compared to the bustle. it can also be argued the bustle is never facing the enemy and hence better protected by
the entire turret.

the loader must be on the left all by himself to
access both mags and gunner and commander sitting
in tandem on the right.

the M1 stores all rounds in bustle, with driver
in middle and I think fuel tanks on both sides of
driver.

*****

does karna / T72/ Arjun feature a escape hatch
under the drivers seat ? leo2 has it. the *electrically* operated sliding door of drivers hatch makes it mandatory I think.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Cybaru » 14 Feb 2004 23:06

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
leo2 has it. the *electrically* operated sliding door of drivers hatch makes it mandatory I think.
If you change the GQSR again, Nitin & DRDO will tie you to the turret and let go off a HESH round. Instant Karma!!

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 15 Feb 2004 05:15

Cy,
Were that Rudra was in the services/DRDO ..we would have the most fundoo imaginative weapons systems.

Rudra,

The Abrams loadout is split between the turret and the hull. Even If some recent news is correct, Arjun may be as good as or perhaps better than the Leo..

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 15 Feb 2004 07:42

http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/02/e0211a.htm

All these blokes are putting up all this and our stupid !@#$%^ DDM couldnt even cover the Defexpo in detail.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 15 Feb 2004 07:44

Also take a look at Ex's glacis...appears to have got some extra armour.

http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/02/EX%20Tank.JPG

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 15 Feb 2004 08:06

very pretty looking. assume its extra composite
armour plates.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 15 Feb 2004 08:14

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
very pretty looking. assume its extra composite
armour plates.
Pls to check mail...the tank ex turret in particular appears all angled and shiny..there is a slight slope t'wards the outside compared to the total flat face of the arjun.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vick » 15 Feb 2004 09:03

Are those eyes on the front turret armor of the Ex meant for additional bolt-on stuff?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 16 Feb 2004 04:49

Originally posted by Vick:
Are those eyes on the front turret armor of the Ex meant for additional bolt-on stuff?
Mine ploughs and the like...

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vick » 16 Feb 2004 06:25

Turret, not glacis. There seems to be an "eye" on either face of the turret.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby SureshP » 16 Feb 2004 06:49

Originally posted by nitin:
http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/02/e0211a.htm

All these blokes are putting up all this and our stupid !@#$%^ DDM couldnt even cover the Defexpo in detail.
It aint just the DDM the official site for defexpo is also short on photos and no captions. The coverage is just awful.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 16 Feb 2004 06:51

Vick , thats for factory to lift damaged turret
and to install it too. replacing a damaged turret
is too complex for ARVs in field, they can and do
replace gun barrels and engines ; and the crew
are trained to replace broken tracks themselves.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Sohum » 16 Feb 2004 07:47

http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/01/Gorshkov.JPG

[URL=http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/01/1143.0.JPG[/URL]

[URL=http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/01/1143.0(2).JPG[/URL}

Model Gorskov?


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