Defence Expo 2004

Rudra
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 16 Feb 2004 07:49

yes but as it exists today - note the P500 bazalt
launchers foredeck.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Div » 16 Feb 2004 08:07

This one looks more like what we should expect, no?
http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/01/1143.0.JPG

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 16 Feb 2004 08:44

I see no reason for that big old Ru radar and
that round tower thing atop superstructure, a navigation radar, indo-israeli ESM kit and a large Alenia
3D search radar is all we need up there. the Kashtans are self-contained in sensors. plus advanced rocket boosted radar and IR decoys.

RAN40L(RAT31DL) or S1850M

http://www.amsjv.com/photolib/preview/RAT31DLnew.jpg
http://www.amsjv.com/photolib/preview/s1850_new_01.jpg

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JaiS » 18 Feb 2004 12:16


Jagan
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Jagan » 20 Feb 2004 13:30

Reports on ACIG by Harry

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_415.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_416.shtml

As usual great pics and lot of info - and it seems to be a mammoth 15 part update!

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JaiS » 20 Feb 2004 20:39

Amazing stuff Harry !

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby shiv » 21 Feb 2004 15:24


Rudra
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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 21 Feb 2004 19:10

Does Harry work as correspondent or he is a rich
millionaire enthusiast! invariably turns up at
all indian shows and bags the most detailed pix and info.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Hitesh » 21 Feb 2004 22:10

Nice article but i noticed something about the Bhim's specs. The sustained rate of fire is 3/min. That is very low compared to other artillery systmes like the Crusader, or the venerable Paladin, PH-2000, etc. No wonder why the IA is taking such a long time to acquire the Bhim. If DRDO can improve the sustained rate of fire to 8/min, the IA will definitely take the Bhim in a heartbeat. I noticed the caliber is 52. Why not 56? That is the caliber that Crusader uses or the NC-1010(sp?), the lightweight, Rumsfield approved version of the Crusader.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 21 Feb 2004 23:07

Originally posted by Hitesh:
Nice article but i noticed something about the Bhim's specs. The sustained rate of fire is 3/min. That is very low compared to other artillery systmes like the Crusader, or the venerable Paladin, PH-2000, etc.
IMHO, 3rounds /min for sustained is quite on par with other systems. And its intense firing rate is 8 rounds per min. Compare with:
1.AS90 - burst rate of 3 rounds in under 10 seconds, an intense rate of 6 rounds per minute in three minutes and a sustained rate of 2 rounds per minute.
2.Crusader's 155mm self-propelled howitzer, XM2001: has fully automated ammunition handling and firing that allows firing of the 48 on-board rounds at rates of up to 10 rounds per minute to ranges in excess of 40km. Mind you this has to be intense firing.
3.PzH 2000: This provides rates of fire of 3 rounds in less than 10 seconds and loading of 60 shells by two operators within 12 minutes, including the collation of ammunition data. The firing rate of the PzH 2000 was 12 rounds in 59.74 seconds, and 20 rounds in 1 minute 47 seconds, during firing tests in October 1997.
4.Paladin M109A6 achieves a maximum firing rate of up to 8 rounds per minute or 3 rounds per 15 seconds, and a sustained firing rate of 1 round per three minutes.
5.MSTA-S 2S19:Ammunition and gun loading, laying and retargeting are highly automated, allowing maximum firing rate of 8 rounds per minute with onboard rounds and 6-7 rounds per minute with rounds from the ground

(above shamelessly plagarised from Army Tech)

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Cybaru » 22 Feb 2004 03:23

Paladin is undergoing changes after GWII. It fired about 14K rounds in 26 days and cumilatevly travelled 2K miles only. Power supply faulted in extreme heat and sand in keyboards wrecked havoc. Win NT didnt help much either. So next 4 years will see it moving to linux. Vibration from driving at 25-30 miles per hour caused this! :eek:

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 22 Feb 2004 03:33

punishment for not borrowing the IA GSQR.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Roop » 22 Feb 2004 04:28

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
Does Harry work as correspondent or he is a rich
millionaire enthusiast! invariably turns up at
all indian shows and bags the most detailed pix and info.
Rudra:

Harry is BR's "spy at large", with a mandate to go anywhere and everywhere on the Web to disrupt and frustrate the Packee propaganda effort. He meets regularly with the BR cowardly - Chankian - EarthShaster - Baniya brain trust (Div, Manne and me) to plan strategy. Details are highly classified, so I'm afraid I can't tell you more (I'd have to shoot you if I did). :rotfl: I'm sure you'll understand.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Jagan » 22 Feb 2004 05:09

The photos are a change from the normal routine of tank-flowerpots-people. looks like harry boy climbed on and inside most of the tanks for his pics..good one

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vinantp » 23 Feb 2004 02:17

If one notices closely, both the Pinaka launchers are slightly different. The way the tubes are attached to the truck show two different styles. Is it that the two styles represent launching systems designed by L&T and TATA in competition <img src="http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_417.shtml" alt="" /> ?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vinantp » 23 Feb 2004 02:18

Sorry about the earlier image. The link to the Pinaka launcher images is:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_417.shtml

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Div » 23 Feb 2004 02:26

Are they mounted on two different truck chassis?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Bose » 23 Feb 2004 05:58

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jagan:
[QB]Great Pictures Rupak - Esp the Small Arms stuff.

Jagan, please send me an e-mail at:
naashak at yahoo dot com
I have a few questions re.the mi-24 hind features
and the hawker hunter flown by Win Cdr. Suresh
in the Longewala Battle.
Thanks!

-Raja

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Manne » 23 Feb 2004 09:42

Originally posted by Mohan Raju:
Rudra:

Harry is BR's "spy at large", with a mandate to go anywhere and everywhere on the Web to disrupt and frustrate the Packee propaganda effort. He meets regularly with the BR cowardly - Chankian - EarthShaster - Baniya brain trust (Div, Manne and me) to plan strategy. Details are highly classified, so I'm afraid I can't tell you more (I'd have to shoot you if I did). :rotfl: I'm sure you'll understand.
Mohan, now you've let the spy out of the trenchcoat :whine: :whine: :whine: Ab woh extra percentage maangega mere MAD sales me.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vinantp » 24 Feb 2004 02:36

If one notices both the Pinaka photos carefully, the launchers are mounted differently on two Tatra trucks. I guess there is a difference in design between the TATA's and the L&T's launchers.

Pinaka Luancher 1:
Pinaka_DefExpo_2004_India_01.jpg

Pinaka Launcher 2:
Pinaka_Version2_DefExpo_2004_India_01.jpg

I definitely prefer the first version.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 24 Feb 2004 02:42

do they rotate ? how are they aimed otherwise?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Vick » 24 Feb 2004 03:26

I think they have to rotate and you can clearly see the turn table on each vehicle. Otherwise, how else would you precicely aim the thing?

On another note: With so many members going to the expo, we only have this small number of images? Comon ppl, pony up.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 24 Feb 2004 03:33

There wasn't much to photograph.

The main difference between the two Pinakas is that the first one uses DC drives and the second one AC.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby srai » 24 Feb 2004 07:29

Originally posted by Vinnu:
If one notices both the Pinaka photos carefully, the launchers are mounted differently on two Tatra trucks. I guess there is a difference in design between the TATA's and the L&T's launchers.

Pinaka Luancher 1:
Pinaka_DefExpo_2004_India_01.jpg

Pinaka Launcher 2:
Pinaka_Version2_DefExpo_2004_India_01.jpg

I definitely prefer the first version.
Looks like the L&T's version is based on the universal missile launcher concept vehicle:

<img src="http://www.the-week.com/24feb22/imgbox/defenc2.jpg" alt="" />

L&T/TATA(?) Trishul Launcher
L&T missile launcher
L&T missile launcher
TATA Akash launcher
BEML Prithvi launcher

All these launch vehicles look very similar (some are the same vehicles infact (based on Tatra T-816 8x8 vehicles); so it's a good sign that L&T is thinking of a universal design from the get-go!

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby srai » 26 Feb 2004 06:44

Israel developing missiles for India

IMO, the Isreali long-range artillery (LORA) missiles with a range of up to 300 km for IA could possibly be mounted on the "univeral missile launcher" (i.e. Tatra 8x8).

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rupak » 26 Feb 2004 07:49

The L and T universal launch vehicle was developed to fill a DRDO requirement. It is a joint development with DRDO. Can carry upto 3,700 kgs.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 26 Feb 2004 11:25

just got back after a good few weeks away, did anyone get any pics of the new infantry combat helmets and gear from DEFEXPO or otherwise?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 26 Feb 2004 11:28

is it just me, or does the new arjun model look like its turret is slightly lower in terms of silhouette? i like the abhay, any more pics? :)

Guest

Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Guest » 27 Feb 2004 05:22

Just got back after a good few weeks away, did anyone get any pics of the new infantry combat helmets and gear from DEFEXPO or otherwise?
David,
How does the new Infantry combat helmet look?
What are the materials used?

Thanks,
Ananth

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Ashutosh » 27 Feb 2004 05:29

Originally posted by davidn:
is it just me, or does the new arjun model look like its turret is slightly lower in terms of silhouette? i like the abhay, any more pics? :)
You're not alone - look in the previous pages of this thread :)

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 27 Feb 2004 05:59

Originally posted by ananth:
Just got back after a good few weeks away, did anyone get any pics of the new infantry combat helmets and gear from DEFEXPO or otherwise?
David,
How does the new Infantry combat helmet look?
What are the materials used?

Thanks,
Ananth
I don't have a clue my friend, all our hopes rest on at least one of the BR photo gurus getting a few snaps in at DEFEXPO ;) . From the rumour mills, its supposedly more effective, and covers more of the head than the patka.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Aditya G » 27 Feb 2004 08:29

From the rumour mills, its supposedly more effective, and covers more of the head than the patka.

It looks like the helmet the jerrys wore in WW2 :eek:

Both Tatas and the GoI's xxxx-Dhaatu co were there but the latter displayed only the plain ol' armour and patka.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Rudra » 27 Feb 2004 08:51

cool..I will prepare the Afrika Korps uniform and
warm up my kubelwagen for wannabe generals here.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby John » 27 Feb 2004 08:51

Originally posted by rupak:
The L and T universal launch vehicle was developed to fill a DRDO requirement. It is a joint development with DRDO. Can carry upto 3,700 kgs.
It should much more than that since each brahmos including its canister weights around 4 tons.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 27 Feb 2004 11:32

Originally posted by aditya.g:

It looks like the helmet the jerrys wore in WW2 :eek:

Both Tatas and the GoI's xxxx-Dhaatu co were there but the latter displayed only the plain ol' armour and patka.
Foiled! Did it resemble a modern kevlar combat helmet, with a slight 1930-45 german tinge, or was it that bad I should buy a copy of "German Language for Dummies"? Are any pics hiding somewhere in the BR temp folders?

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby JCage » 27 Feb 2004 11:43

IDC guy woke up...realized that agent giri demands a more somber appraisal of $$ involved in India Shining and hence writes this. ;)

Some nice info.

http://www.indiadefence.com/Defexpo04a.htm

Let me summarise:

* In 2002-03, the defence sector purchased spares worth 1.3 billion $ from (local) industry.

*Out of that OFB's share was 800 million $.

*2003-04 budget is around 15 billion $ , including previous unspent allowances, big ticket purchases

* USA supplied 98 badly needed spares for Sea King's

*Import content of 2003-04 budget will be approx 20%

*India supplied Do228 to Mauritius with Isreali radar etc.

*Rafael's Barak close to being manufactured by BDL.

*
In today’s weapon systems software inputs and simulation form a large part of the system as the battlefield is getting digitised in what is called Revolution in Military affairs (RMA). Indian private companies like L & T, Tatas, Macmet and Zen Technologies had shown strength in this sector at the show and had produced world-class solutions and manufactured simulators for the Armed Forces. Most DRDO products and collaborations were on display. This trend is set to increase. Russia’s and India’s very successful BrahMos supersonic cruise missile project was the darling of the show where Larsen and Toubro displayed the firing control console being made operational for the Navy.
*
The large Indian private players in defence, like Larsen and Tubro, Kirloskars, Tata group, Mahindra Defence Systems and Treveni Engineering displayed their wares alongside Government shipyards, DRDO, Ordnance Factory Board and PSUs. A fact missed by many was that India’s paramilitary and police forces had been given substantive budgets to upgrade their forces and their shopping list includes military hardware and systems similar to the Indian Armed Forces.
*
India’s Intelligence services had also received enhanced budgets post 9/11, and a new set up, the NTFO the National Technical Facilities Organisation to keep a listening watch on communications had been carved out of the RAW. The Border Security Force took part in the show and the show was visited by paramilitary force and intelligence agencies for the learning it provides. An India company with foreign collaboration Shoghi Communications showed off digitized secrecy communications equipment and reported good orders, while Speck and Rolta were strong on space imaging and GIS both virgin niche markets.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 27 Feb 2004 11:57

Originally posted by Ashutosh:
Originally posted by davidn:
[b]is it just me, or does the new arjun model look like its turret is slightly lower in terms of silhouette? i like the abhay, any more pics? :)
You're not alone - look in the previous pages of this thread :) [/b]
hehe my bad. Only just finished reading through the hordes of 8 page threads which seem to have proliferated while i was gone ;)

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Aditya G » 27 Feb 2004 12:43

Did it resemble a modern kevlar combat helmet, with a slight 1930-45 german tinge

exactly! very pretty, you got choice of colour too. IIRC navy blue and black models were displayed.

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby davidn » 27 Feb 2004 13:59

ohhh now i really have to see a pic of it!! *cries* ;)

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Re: Defence Expo 2004

Postby Ashutosh » 27 Feb 2004 22:10



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